• 05-24-2004, 11:36 PM
    stevos2005
    to biwire or not.. also seeking alternative to Monster Cable
    I'm relatively new to picking out cables and i'm only familiar with Monster Cable. I'm plannign to get a decent pair of B&W speakers that have bi-wiring capabilities. What are the benefits of biwiring and is it worth it?

    Also, I have Monster Cable M1.2 speaker cable, and was pleased with it, but I was wondering if there's anything that is a little better that will be cheaper, or something at a similiar or slightly lower price, that is significantly better. The Monster Cable M1.2 is placed at $150 for 10 ft. pair of speakers.

    Thanks!
  • 05-25-2004, 02:40 AM
    markw
    The audible benefits of biwiring is questionable. Some swear by it, some swear at it. In either case, don't expect miracles. ....but you CAN expect to double your speaker wire costs. At least one manufacturer has stated that they include biwiring capabilities at the insistance of their marketing staff, not their engineering staff.

    You might want to solicit other opinoins on the speaker pages since this is more of a speaker issue than one of cables.

    As far as "better" speaker cable, well, just let me say that the point of diminishing returns on speaker cables are much lower than the market would have you expect. One might be so bold as to suggest that you might have already crossed it.
  • 05-27-2004, 08:41 PM
    Beckman
    Get better speakers or room treatments!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stevos2005
    I'm relatively new to picking out cables and i'm only familiar with Monster Cable. I'm plannign to get a decent pair of B&W speakers that have bi-wiring capabilities. What are the benefits of biwiring and is it worth it?

    Also, I have Monster Cable M1.2 speaker cable, and was pleased with it, but I was wondering if there's anything that is a little better that will be cheaper, or something at a similiar or slightly lower price, that is significantly better. The Monster Cable M1.2 is placed at $150 for 10 ft. pair of speakers.

    Thanks!


    There is a debate on this website about higher end speaker cables and if they are worth it. I originaly though that there must be something to cables because there are so many on the market. I figured more expensive cables must produce better sound. The reality is there are a lot of yuppies(don't mean to offend anyone) that are into high end audio and are easy to fool. Most high end cable companies contract out the actual cable assembly to chinease firms and the cables are made for a few dollars. Then they are shipped over here and sold for hundreds of dollars.

    12 AWG lamp cord from home depot attenuates the signal 0.4 dB at 20 kHz. The rest of the frequency response is as flat as it gets. Basicly lamp cord that costs $.20/ft. provides a perfect audio signal path.

    High end cables either do nothing to improve the sound, or act like low pass filters giving your stereo a warm sound. You can replace (and get the exact same sound) any high end speaker cables with lamp cord, resistors, capacitors and inductors. Or, if you want to be practicle, get an equalizer.

    As for biwiring, I tried it once. I though it really improved the sound, more detail etc. I then went back to redgular zip cord and noticed that all the details I noticed before were still there.

    I would just use the speaker cables you have. If you want to improve the sound of your B&W's once you get them, try moving them around (away from the wall, further apart, etc.) speaker placement plays a much much much bigger role in how a stereo sounds than most (normal) people realize. Also, if you feel like spending money try room treatments or an equalizer.
  • 05-27-2004, 10:58 PM
    okiemax
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stevos2005
    I'm relatively new to picking out cables and i'm only familiar with Monster Cable. I'm plannign to get a decent pair of B&W speakers that have bi-wiring capabilities. What are the benefits of biwiring and is it worth it?

    Also, I have Monster Cable M1.2 speaker cable, and was pleased with it, but I was wondering if there's anything that is a little better that will be cheaper, or something at a similiar or slightly lower price, that is significantly better. The Monster Cable M1.2 is placed at $150 for 10 ft. pair of speakers.

    Thanks!

    B&W likes biwiring. You can read about it at their web site on the FAQ page:

    http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/...tion/local.FAQ

    You could experiment with biwiring inexpensive zip cord. There also are several direct sources of relatively inexpensive audiophile cables that offer 30-day money back guarantees, so you can experiment, and return their cables if not satisfied. Two examples of these firms are:

    http://www.bluejeanscable.com

    http://www.signalcable.com

    Good luck!
  • 05-27-2004, 11:36 PM
    mtrycraft
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stevos2005
    I'm relatively new to picking out cables and i'm only familiar with Monster Cable. I'm plannign to get a decent pair of B&W speakers that have bi-wiring capabilities. What are the benefits of biwiring and is it worth it?

    Also, I have Monster Cable M1.2 speaker cable, and was pleased with it, but I was wondering if there's anything that is a little better that will be cheaper, or something at a similiar or slightly lower price, that is significantly better. The Monster Cable M1.2 is placed at $150 for 10 ft. pair of speakers.

    Thanks!


    Audio is full of hype, bs, voodoo. Why would it be exempt from the rest of the consumer marketplace?
    There is no evidence to support bi-wiring. Speaker makers supply the 4 posts so they have a larger market for their products. Wire makers hype it to sell more wire. Gullible audiophiles buy into it. simple.
    Monster is expensive. 12 ga to 16ga from Home Depot will do you well. Anything over $.35/ft is audio jewelry.
  • 05-29-2004, 07:41 AM
    stevos2005
    IMHO, from what I've gathered, I believe that speaker cable does make a difference, but there's really no reason to spend the begabucks that some people do on more expensive speaker cables. i.e. When using high end speakers with a high end amp that are very well designed, better speaker cable will make a difference. Personally I feel that the difference between a well designed $100 cable and cheap lamp cord will be much greater than the difference from the $100 cable to an "audiohphile" $1000 cable, but those are my 2 cents.

    Since the cable is supposed to deliver the amplified signal from the amp to the speakers, it should be designed to produce as flat a response as possible and have a low characteristic impedance. Some speaker cables may attenuate certain frequencies and that should be avoided. Although I'm pretty sure decent cable can be found at decent prices. I'll check around. Thanks for the advice.
  • 05-29-2004, 06:59 PM
    Beckman
    ?
    [QUOTE=stevos2005]Personally I feel that the difference between a well designed $100 cable and cheap lamp cord will be much greater than the difference from the $100 cable to an "audiohphile" $1000 cable, but those are my 2 cents.

    Since the cable is supposed to deliver the amplified signal from the amp to the speakers, it should be designed to produce as flat a response as possible and have a low characteristic impedance. Some speaker cables may attenuate certain frequencies and that should be avoided. QUOTE]

    But 12 AWG Lamp cord produces a flat response and only attenuates the signal 0.4 dB(undetectable) at 20 kHz. You can't improve upon perfection.
  • 05-29-2004, 07:34 PM
    cam
    If bi-wiring makes you think you are getting the best sound possible from your system I say go for it. Just don't do it with expensive cables. Buy 12 guage just do not spend more then $1.00 a foot. If your mains have 10 foot lengths you only need an extra $20.00 worth of cable. Big deal, aslong as you think you are getting a benefit it only cost you an extra $20.00.
  • 05-29-2004, 10:54 PM
    mtrycraft
    When using high end speakers with a high end amp that are very well designed, better speaker cable will make a difference.

    Yet to be demonstrated this to be true.


    Personally I feel that the difference between a well designed $100 cable and cheap lamp cord will be much greater than the difference from the $100 cable to an "audiohphile" $1000 cable, but those are my 2 cents.

    Yep, it is just a feeling :)

    Since the cable is supposed to deliver the amplified signal from the amp to the speakers, it should be designed to produce as flat a response as possible and have a low characteristic impedance.

    Well, in speaker cables characteristic impedance is not an issue but resistance and inductance are. But, these are known and the limits of hearing is too. So, it doesn't take fancy design to accomplish this, nor should it cost anywhere near $100, unless you are buying a lot of wire.

    Some speaker cables may attenuate certain frequencies and that should be avoided.

    Yes, of course:) The attenuation happens from the high frequency first in a uniform roll off.



    Although I'm pretty sure decent cable can be found at decent prices. I'll check around. Thanks for the advice.

    You are welcome.
  • 05-30-2004, 07:40 PM
    Wrightstuff
    Try it.
    I was skeptical of bi-wiring, or even spending more than $100 on interconnects and speaker cables.
    I was even more wary after trying to improve my Sony ES-based system with cables at three times the price above. Slight improvements were there, but the sound still didn't please.
    Everything changed for me when I turned my back on do-everything multi-channel receivers and the like and moved into "hi-end" and invested around $10,000 on a strictly two-channel system.
    From that point, the benefits of top quality cables have become totally obvious and indisputable. For the first time, I am completely immersed in the music and not listening to the electronics' failings. Fine minimalist amplification and CD playback with high-quality cables (after much auditioning to find the most ideal match ) has brought me never-before-experienced audio satisfaction.
    At this level, I can tell you that bi-wiring certainly CAN make a difference. The amount will vary between different components and cables and the only way to see what is best for your system is to audition all options. People who advise you that bi-wiring your system does or doesn't matter are offering you worthless advice. The fact is, it CAN be great in the right combination of parts, or a waste of time in other systems. It's down to what YOUR system does with it, not what mine or someone else's does.
    You need a dealer who will loan you cables for audition. You should NEVER buy cables of any kind without auditioning them first.
  • 05-30-2004, 09:53 PM
    Tony_Montana
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wrightstuff
    People who advise you that bi-wiring your system does or doesn't matter are offering you worthless advice.

    Not if those people giving advice are also giving a credible reason why biwiring is or is not worthless.

    If you want to look at biwirng issue technically (electrically), one will note that biwiring does not make sense.

    If the amp was also biwirable, then it would probably be worth trouble to biwire. But if the amp is not biwirable-since both wires are touching each other at amp's output-then both wires are technically have the same potential electrically. And it doesn't matter if one use one pair or two pair, it doesn't change a thing electrically :)
  • 05-30-2004, 10:12 PM
    mtrycraft
    I was skeptical of bi-wiring, or even spending more than $100 on interconnects and speaker cables.

    Then you saw the light.


    Everything changed for me when I turned my back on do-everything multi-channel receivers and the like and moved into "hi-end" and invested around $10,000 on a strictly two-channel system.


    How else could you justify that kind of outlay for audio but to fall victim to all the audio voodoo. Undertsnadible; human nature.


    From that point, the benefits of top quality cables have become totally obvious and indisputable.

    Indisputable? I suppose you have indisputable evidence for this claims? I haven't seen any such evidence on record. But who knows.

    For the first time, I am completely immersed in the music and not listening to the electronics' failings.

    Not at all. You are involved in the components, not the music.

    Fine minimalist amplification

    With $10k invested that is minimalist? All relative I guess.



    At this level, I can tell you that bi-wiring certainly CAN make a difference.


    Of course you can tell this. Certainly not based in credible evidence though, right? Perception is funny. Your mind plays all sorts of tricks. Very powerful.

    People who advise you that bi-wiring your system does or doesn't matter are offering you worthless advice.


    And your advice has merit because you say so? Based on what evidence? Perhaps your advice is worthless. But how would you know? Bias controlled listeing?



    You need a dealer who will loan you cables for audition. You should NEVER buy cables of any kind without auditioning them first.


    What is there to audition? Your advice would have been better if you told him how to audition, who to avoid the influence of bias and the placebo effect. No small matter to consider. I bet you didn't and are trapped in the hype of audio hi end.
  • 05-31-2004, 09:40 AM
    pctower
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wrightstuff
    I was skeptical of bi-wiring, or even spending more than $100 on interconnects and speaker cables.
    I was even more wary after trying to improve my Sony ES-based system with cables at three times the price above. Slight improvements were there, but the sound still didn't please.
    Everything changed for me when I turned my back on do-everything multi-channel receivers and the like and moved into "hi-end" and invested around $10,000 on a strictly two-channel system.
    From that point, the benefits of top quality cables have become totally obvious and indisputable. For the first time, I am completely immersed in the music and not listening to the electronics' failings. Fine minimalist amplification and CD playback with high-quality cables (after much auditioning to find the most ideal match ) has brought me never-before-experienced audio satisfaction.
    At this level, I can tell you that bi-wiring certainly CAN make a difference. The amount will vary between different components and cables and the only way to see what is best for your system is to audition all options. People who advise you that bi-wiring your system does or doesn't matter are offering you worthless advice. The fact is, it CAN be great in the right combination of parts, or a waste of time in other systems. It's down to what YOUR system does with it, not what mine or someone else's does.
    You need a dealer who will loan you cables for audition. You should NEVER buy cables of any kind without auditioning them first.

    You're just flapping in the wind over here with talk like that. Very few, if any, of the regulars have ever heard the kind of two-channel system you are probably talking about.

    They are not interested in music or equipment. They are interested in mocking people like you. It's a social-psychological thing - nothing to do with home entertainment, music or science.

    Nerds need something with which to occupy themselves when they grow up. It all has to do with high school clics and that sort of thing - ie reference: "Mean Girls"; "Revenge of the Nerds".

    The biggest joke of all is that these guys think that the people spending big bucks on two-channel audio are yuppies. This just proves how out of touch they really are. No self-respecting yuppie has even heard of two-channel high end audio. True yuppies go for built-in home theaters with stacks and stacks of Adcom electronics and in-wall speakers; they wouldn't be caught dead in a local high end salon or hanging out here, over at AA or at Audiogon.

    If it isn't in GQ, the Robb Report or Architechtural Digest, the true yuppie will simply turn up his nose at it. When is the last time you saw an article on two-channel, high end audio in GQ or AD?

    No, the guys who spend big bucks on two-channel audio are simply nerds with a lot of money, a lot of debt, no other life or all three.

    Of course, that excludes guys like you and me who are the cool ones in the know and rise above all this petty class/socio-economic-warfare and simply enjoy the magic of two-channel high end stereo.
  • 05-31-2004, 10:32 AM
    Beckman
    Sorry
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pctower
    You're just flapping in the wind over here with talk like that. Very few, if any, of the regulars have ever heard the kind of two-channel system you are probably talking about.

    They are not interested in music or equipment. They are interested in mocking people like you. It's a social-psychological thing - nothing to do with home entertainment, music or science.

    Nerds need something with which to occupy themselves when they grow up. It all has to do with high school clics and that sort of thing - ie reference: "Mean Girls"; "Revenge of the Nerds".

    The biggest joke of all is that these guys think that the people spending big bucks on two-channel audio are yuppies. This just proves how out of touch they really are. No self-respecting yuppie has even heard of two-channel high end audio. True yuppies go for built-in home theaters with stacks and stacks of Adcom electronics and in-wall speakers; they wouldn't be caught dead in a local high end salon or hanging out here, over at AA or at Audiogon.

    If it isn't in GQ, the Robb Report or Architechtural Digest, the true yuppie will simply turn up his nose at it. When is the last time you saw an article on two-channel, high end audio in GQ or AD?

    No, the guys who spend big bucks on two-channel audio are simply nerds with a lot of money, a lot of debt, no other life or all three.

    Of course, that excludes guys like you and me who are the cool ones in the know and rise above all this petty class/socio-economic-warfare and simply enjoy the magic of two-channel high end stereo.

    I appologize for anything I might have posted that may have upsetted you.
  • 05-31-2004, 03:05 PM
    woodman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pctower
    You're just flapping in the wind over here with talk like that. Very few, if any, of the regulars have ever heard the kind of two-channel system you are probably talking about.

    They are not interested in music or equipment. They are interested in mocking people like you. It's a social-psychological thing - nothing to do with home entertainment, music or science.

    Nerds need something with which to occupy themselves when they grow up. It all has to do with high school clics and that sort of thing - ie reference: "Mean Girls"; "Revenge of the Nerds".

    The biggest joke of all is that these guys think that the people spending big bucks on two-channel audio are yuppies. This just proves how out of touch they really are. No self-respecting yuppie has even heard of two-channel high end audio. True yuppies go for built-in home theaters with stacks and stacks of Adcom electronics and in-wall speakers; they wouldn't be caught dead in a local high end salon or hanging out here, over at AA or at Audiogon.

    If it isn't in GQ, the Robb Report or Architechtural Digest, the true yuppie will simply turn up his nose at it. When is the last time you saw an article on two-channel, high end audio in GQ or AD?

    No, the guys who spend big bucks on two-channel audio are simply nerds with a lot of money, a lot of debt, no other life or all three.

    Of course, that excludes guys like you and me who are the cool ones in the know and rise above all this petty class/socio-economic-warfare and simply enjoy the magic of two-channel high end stereo.

    Oh, cut the crap, Phil - you ol' chain-yanker you. If I didn't know better, you'd have me (as well as many others) fooled with your make believe A-A bullsh!t.

    You are right about one thing though ... I wouldn't waste a single minute of my valuable time in a "high-end salon" where the elitist snobbery and snake-oil bullsh!t is piled so high that there's no shovel made that is quite big enough to deal with it. I commented on "high-end audio" in another thread here which you never responded to (it was YOUR thread). No need to repeat it here - "you could look it up".

    Laughing out loud,
  • 05-31-2004, 03:54 PM
    Wrightstuff
    I wouldn't waste a single minute of my valuable time in a "high-end salon" where the elitist snobbery and snake-oil bullsh!t is piled so high that there's no shovel made that is quite big enough to deal with it.


    I have experienced the kind of thing you are talking about several times. Some of the high-end dealers I've experience of are truly horrible to deal with. Some have such a similar style that one can only imagine there is a school somewhere for the development of snobbish, look-down-on-your-customer high-end dealers.
    BUT...not all are the same. I have received really good service from one dealer in particular.
    In general though, I have to say that my experience of high-end dealers is very negative.
  • 05-31-2004, 07:21 PM
    mtrycraft
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wrightstuff
    I wouldn't waste a single minute of my valuable time in a "high-end salon" where the elitist snobbery and snake-oil bullsh!t is piled so high that there's no shovel made that is quite big enough to deal with it.


    I have experienced the kind of thing you are talking about several times. Some of the high-end dealers I've experience of are truly horrible to deal with. Some have such a similar style that one can only imagine there is a school somewhere for the development of snobbish, look-down-on-your-customer high-end dealers.
    BUT...not all are the same. I have received really good service from one dealer in particular.
    In general though, I have to say that my experience of high-end dealers is very negative.


    A suggestion in posting. If you are quoting from a previous post, please use quotation marks or the cornered brackets with a b at the beginning of th equote and the same brackets with /b in between at the end. This way we can read it better:)
  • 05-31-2004, 08:07 PM
    pctower
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by woodman
    Oh, cut the crap, Phil - you ol' chain-yanker you. If I didn't know better, you'd have me (as well as many others) fooled with your make believe A-A bullsh!t.

    You are right about one thing though ... I wouldn't waste a single minute of my valuable time in a "high-end salon" where the elitist snobbery and snake-oil bullsh!t is piled so high that there's no shovel made that is quite big enough to deal with it. I commented on "high-end audio" in another thread here which you never responded to (it was YOUR thread). No need to repeat it here - "you could look it up".

    Laughing out loud,

    I saw the other post. Just your usual ranting and raving. Nothing worth responding to.
  • 05-31-2004, 08:15 PM
    pctower
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Beckman
    I appologize for anything I might have posted that may have upsetted you.

    You didn't upset me. You described your own personal experience and offered some advice based on that experience.

    Nothing wrong with that in my book.

    I don't toe the party line here so many will paint me as a rabid golden-ear. They totally fail to grasp that one can attack certain parts of an argument on one side of a question without advocating the opposite side of that argument. Nuances are not part of the thought process of the self-appointed "scientists" on this board.

    In addition, true gold-ears or yeasayers have enough sense to avoid this board like a plague. Yet these guys here live for the opportunity of arguing with yeasayers. Since very few wonder by and almost none end of staying they have to try and turn people like me into a yeasayer so they have a strawdog to attack.

    The fact that you found that bi-wiring or special cables did nothing for you doesn't bother me in the slightest.
  • 05-31-2004, 09:31 PM
    Wrightstuff
    [/b] And your advice has merit because you say so? Based on what evidence? Perhaps your advice is worthless. But how would you know? Bias controlled listeing? [/b]


    My advice was to listen for oneself and not accept the arguments of others, either for or against bi-wiring. That goes for agitated advice-givers like yourself too.
    By the way, $10,000 is not a huge amount to pay in "high-end" terms. $2000 for an Class A 16w amp, $1000 for a pre-amp, $2000 for the CD and the rest on speakers, stands, cables. Many people are spending as much on very ordinary home-theater systems with boomy subwoofers and extra speakers and if that is what pleases them, fine.
    I made the decision to dispense with the likes of 7-channels of Sony amplification, rear speakers, subwoofer, Dolby Pro Logic II etc, tone controls, built-in tuner and anything else that is superfluous to the function of playing my CDs in 2-channel with the best quality I can get for my money. What I hear is a VAST improvement over the receiver-based system I had before. I would consider my current system minimalist, in comparison to the equipment I had before, which featured numerous functions and controls I never used and never needed. My "reward" is listening to the finest reproduction and spatial presentation I have ever heard from my CDs.
    You can talk of placebos and other negative aspects of owning equipment that you yourself deem too expensive, but all you are really doing is telling us that to this point, you have failed to experience the top quality sound that is available to us all if we really try to match and balance our equipment for peak performance. Apparently, you blame your lack of such an experience on voodoo of some kind, rather than your own absence of understanding.
    There are some folks who would say to you that their transistor radio is as good as
    "hi-fi" gets. You'd probably laugh (or cry) at their ignorance.
    So you will now know why I laughed when I read your response. You just don't get it. So stick with what you know and don't profess to know any more than that, there's a good fellow.
  • 06-01-2004, 10:45 PM
    mtrycraft
    My advice was to listen for oneself and not accept the arguments of others, either for or against bi-wiring.



    Fine. But you fell way short with that advice. You failed to inform about the vagaries of sighetd listening to determine audible differences. It doesn't work too well.You left this out because you yourself don't know? Or, you may be worried about the truth?



    What I hear is a VAST improvement over the receiver-based system I had before.

    Maybe yes, maybe no.

    I would consider my current system minimalist,

    Oh, like SET amps? Passive preamps?
    LOL.


    My "reward" is listening to the finest reproduction and spatial presentation I have ever heard from my CDs.

    Maybe yes, maybe no.

    but all you are really doing is telling us that to this point, you have failed to experience the top quality sound that is available to us all if we really try to match and balance our equipment for peak performance.

    Or, you just think that is what you are accomplishing.

    Apparently, you blame your lack of such an experience on voodoo of some kind, rather than your own absence of understanding.

    My experience is irrelevant to what your claims are and what can be demonstrated.
  • 06-02-2004, 06:58 AM
    pctower
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    My advice was to listen for oneself and not accept the arguments of others, either for or against bi-wiring.



    Fine. But you fell way short with that advice. You failed to inform about the vagaries of sighetd listening to determine audible differences. It doesn't work too well.You left this out because you yourself don't know? Or, you may be worried about the truth?



    What I hear is a VAST improvement over the receiver-based system I had before.

    Maybe yes, maybe no.

    I would consider my current system minimalist,

    Oh, like SET amps? Passive preamps?
    LOL.


    My "reward" is listening to the finest reproduction and spatial presentation I have ever heard from my CDs.

    Maybe yes, maybe no.

    but all you are really doing is telling us that to this point, you have failed to experience the top quality sound that is available to us all if we really try to match and balance our equipment for peak performance.

    Or, you just think that is what you are accomplishing.

    Apparently, you blame your lack of such an experience on voodoo of some kind, rather than your own absence of understanding.

    My experience is irrelevant to what your claims are and what can be demonstrated.

    Fine. But you fell way short with that advice. You failed to inform about the vagaries of sighetd listening to determine audible differences. It doesn't work too well.You left this out because you yourself don't know? Or, you may be worried about the truth?

    Just as your absolutist advice to newcomers falls way short by failing to explain it is based solely on "not proven". I guess that makes two of you who may be worried about the truth.

    Oh, like SET amps? Passive preamps?
    LOL.

    You are at your finest when you're behaving in an arrogant, condescending manner. Is passive agressive behavior a component of the scientific method?
  • 06-02-2004, 12:16 PM
    BrandonCM
    just my own experience from this so called bi-wiring on my Def Tech 2002TL:
    1. used a single 15ft Z monster speaker cable against 2 15ft Z monster speaker cable (bi-wire) on one speaker, if there's a difference, I didn't notice it.
    2. used a single 15ft Z monster speaker cable against a 50ft inwall monster cable. again, no audible difference.
    notice the Z series are 12 gauge and the inwall cables are 14 gauge.
  • 06-02-2004, 07:41 PM
    mtrycraft
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pctower
    Fine. But you fell way short with that advice. You failed to inform about the vagaries of sighetd listening to determine audible differences. It doesn't work too well.You left this out because you yourself don't know? Or, you may be worried about the truth?

    Just as your absolutist advice to newcomers falls way short by failing to explain it is based solely on "not proven". I guess that makes two of you who may be worried about the truth.

    Truth? Please inform us about the truth in audio.
  • 06-03-2004, 07:13 AM
    pctower
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    Truth? Please inform us about the truth in audio.

    HA! TRUTH YOU SAY?

    If you're looking for scientific truth, I'll tell you where you won't find it - Cable Asylum, Jon Risch's website and the bogus, amateur published DBTs you try to foist off on the uneducated, uncritical masses.

    If you are looking for scientific truth, look to Steve Eddy and jneutron. They deal almost exclusively with verifiable facts, hypotheses that can be subjected to scrutiny, reason and the scientific method. And isn't it interesting that these two great men of science see the Great Cable Debate as the folly of fools and virtually never try to foist off their "advice" on to others.

    Now if you are looking for the transcendental truth of audio as it has been revealed to us mere mortals to date, you must turn to the keeper of all transcendental audio truth - ME, of course.

    As of June, 2004, there are two great revealed truths of audio:

    1. Anyone who has listened to hundreds or thousands of vinyl and digital recordings on a good system knows beyond any shadow of a doubt that vinyl is far closer to audio truth than digital. Such a person therefore has developed a healthy distrust of numbers and meters - the limit of audio engineering and science as of this time.

    2. The vast majority of audiophiles make their decisions without any help from any of us, and manage to log millions and millions of enjoyable listening hours regardless of how hard we who waste our time on audio boards try to dissect and destroy the hobby.

    AND THUS THE MASTER HAS SPOKEN.