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  1. #26
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    Bi-wiring should be done with different gauge cables and different construction. The upper(highs should be wired with a smaller gauge twisted pair while the bottom (lows) can be done with larger gauge non twisted pairs. If you use the same gauge and same wire, you probably will not hear a difference.

    Bi-amping is much more effective but the cable gauge mentioned above should still be respected.

  2. #27
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Bi-wiring should be done with different gauge cables and different construction. The upper(highs should be wired with a smaller gauge twisted pair while the bottom (lows) can be done with larger gauge non twisted pairs.
    Can you explain why you believe this?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Can you explain why you believe this?
    Unfortunately I can't explain it but my brother who is an Electrical/Mechanical Engineer attempted to explain it all to me when I was bi wiring an older pair of Mirage speakers. I did notice the difference when I did as suggested.

    Maybe one of the other E-Engineers here can explain why the smaller gauge and twisted pairs are better for the highs.

  4. #29
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    The reason i ask this is because when bi-wiring, there is no seperation of highs and lows, it's the exact same signal that goes through both sets of wires. Hence, the reason I ask why there is need for two different types of wires.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    The reason i ask this is because when bi-wiring, there is no seperation of highs and lows, it's the exact same signal that goes through both sets of wires. Hence, the reason I ask why there is need for two different types of wires.
    The signal travels through the different wires differently. If your theory was true then all speaker cables would be identical and have no effect on the sound, which we know is not true.

  6. #31
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    http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/am...15/152268.html

    here is a link to another site with similar questions and more answers.

  7. #32
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    This is not intended to be a smart ass question. If very thin wires work for you that's your business. They seem to work for Mapleshade and others. I'm just wondering if the wires heat up after extended use.
    If the RS wire is standard Kynar wire wrap wire it's silver plated. That could help explain the difference in the sound.
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  8. #33
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I suspect the reason for the electrical engineer's opinion on the issue is the skin effect.

  9. #34
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    Hello JoeE SP9

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    This is not intended to be a smart ass question. If very thin wires work for you that's your business. They seem to work for Mapleshade and others. I'm just wondering if the wires heat up after extended use.
    If the RS wire is standard Kynar wire wrap wire it's silver plated. That could help explain the difference in the sound.
    As far as I know they don't heat up. I've stripped the insulation off the wire after use and sometimes during a movie playback if i've moved the speaker once to many times or tightened the post too much then the wire can easily be severed. Never been warm to the touch though.

    You are correct. It is Kynar wire and it is silver in color but I had no idea that it was silver plated. All is knew it that it was not copper and it does not have a smooth texture. It feels braided/coarse to the touch. Thanks for the info on the Kynar wire.

    LeRoy

  10. #35
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    Hello Hyfi

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Unfortunately I can't explain it but my brother who is an Electrical/Mechanical Engineer attempted to explain it all to me when I was bi wiring an older pair of Mirage speakers. I did notice the difference when I did as suggested.

    Maybe one of the other E-Engineers here can explain why the smaller gauge and twisted pairs are better for the highs.
    That makes 2 of us. I can't explain it either. I know my audio buddy does his bi-wire with different gauge wire for upper and lower frequencies and the result is it sounds pretty awesome to me.

  11. #36
    Forum Regular winston's Avatar
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    hey LeRoy" I hope you didn't went down with the Colts" Like i did??!!.. by the way I see the guys" are having some fun about your 30 gauge RS cable effort and your cool man" way to go!! the word Unorthodox” comes to my mind smile"

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  12. #37
    Feel the Tempo eisforelectronic's Avatar
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    I use 6 gauge through 32 gauge wire for my speakers. Simplest explanation is that different frequencies prefer different gauges of wire. The higher the frequency the smaller the gauge. I believe I've achieved much smoother and detailed sound as I've added more gauges of wire.
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  13. #38
    Feel the Tempo eisforelectronic's Avatar
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    Oh, and those jumpers make a huge difference in your sound as well. I suggest using exactly the same thing you use between the amp and speakers instead.
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  14. #39
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    Hey there Winston

    Quote Originally Posted by winston
    hey LeRoy" I hope you didn't went down with the Colts" Like i did??!!.. by the way I see the guys" are having some fun about your 30 gauge RS cable effort and your cool man" way to go!! the word Unorthodox” comes to my mind smile"

    if your hearing it keep on listening!!
    Ya, my R.S. 30 gauge wire story always gets the audio blasphemy treatment...lol

    Sorry about your Colts. I was not surprised when the Colts were up 10-0...I thought they were getting primed to rip it up...but it came down to big plays and well...we know the rest.

    Thanks for the props Winston. Have a great week.

  15. #40
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    Hello eisforelectronic

    Wow! That's quite an interesting range of wire gauges there. I was not aware that a 32 gauge wire even existed. So, you use the 6 gauge wire for the low frequencies and the 32 gauge is a jumper going to the high frequencies?

    Have you ever heard of or tried magnetic wire as a conductor?

  16. #41
    Feel the Tempo eisforelectronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeRoy
    Wow! That's quite an interesting range of wire gauges there. I was not aware that a 32 gauge wire even existed. So, you use the 6 gauge wire for the low frequencies and the 32 gauge is a jumper going to the high frequencies?

    Have you ever heard of or tried magnetic wire as a conductor?
    No, I have 6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30, and 32 gauge wires. I am about to rebuild my wires and actually finish them with heat shrink and flex mesh. Their current configuration is one each of 6-18 gauge to my low end posts, one each of 6-18 gauge as a jumper between high and low posts, and one each of 12-32 gauge to my high end posts.

    I originally had some older higher grade esoteric speaker wires with Monster MC500 used as a jumper. When I was originally introduced to this wire theory I simply built jumpers and the difference from just that was amazing. So I started putting together main speaker wires using my set of Esoteric's as a reference. When I felt the sound exceeded the Esoteric's I replaced them. I believe my current configuration has taken it a couple of steps further now.

    Oh, I've never used magnetic wire.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by eisforelectronic
    No, I have 6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30, and 32 gauge wires. I am about to rebuild my wires and actually finish them with heat shrink and flex mesh. Their current configuration is one each of 6-18 gauge to my low end posts, one each of 6-18 gauge as a jumper between high and low posts, and one each of 12-32 gauge to my high end posts.

    I originally had some older higher grade esoteric speaker wires with Monster MC500 used as a jumper. When I was originally introduced to this wire theory I simply built jumpers and the difference from just that was amazing. So I started putting together main speaker wires using my set of Esoteric's as a reference. When I felt the sound exceeded the Esoteric's I replaced them. I believe my current configuration has taken it a couple of steps further now.

    Oh, I've never used magnetic wire.
    Can you show us picture of all those wires?

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  18. #43
    Swing rakeford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Jimenez
    Does anyone feel like I do that in some cases bi-wiring actually is a step backwrds in sound quality, rather than using a single large cable with good connects? I have tried it and the sound became diffuse, the timing or meter was off, not coherent and the bass impact suffered greatly.

    I would be interested in you favorite speaker cable for single or bi-wiring if you had good results. At the moment I have original Monster that has about 30 years on it in parallel with some new 12 ga. in wall wiring from the same company.. I have ordered some new Monster XPHP to try. I try to keep cable lenghts to under 17 feet, so they do have some effect but not like 25 feet or more.
    I found these webites to be very helpful in assessing the merits of bi-wiring.

    An explanation of bi-wiring.

    A simple electronic analysis of bi-wiring.

    Some examples of the possible effects.

    Modulation Muddle.

    A Cable Conundrum.
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  19. #44
    Feel the Tempo eisforelectronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rakeford
    Can you show us picture of all those wires?
    The only real reason the small bundle is connected to the high end posts is because I got tired of making those jumpers. I intend to replace the cheap home depot banana and ring connectors when I rebuild them.
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  20. #45
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    Omg!!

  21. #46
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    That's a great pic and awesome dedication too!

    Quote Originally Posted by eisforelectronic
    The only real reason the small bundle is connected to the high end posts is because I got tired of making those jumpers. I intend to replace the cheap home depot banana and ring connectors when I rebuild them.
    Good job.

  22. #47
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    That is one lucky, and one happy speaker!!!
    "If only sleep and work didn't interfere with my listening sessions" =D

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  23. #48
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    Audioquest uses several different gage wires in different numbers in many of their Spread Spectrum designs.

  24. #49
    Feel the Tempo eisforelectronic's Avatar
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    What I like about building wires, besides the hobby aspect, is it actually gives you the ability to fine tune the cables to your system. Despite what it looks like, you can go too far and worsen your sound. I built one set of jumpers a few months ago and was rather disappointed with what I heard. A friend of mine suggested taking a wire out, so I simply cut one. The difference was immediate and dramatic!! I was more than sold on building my own speaker cable from that point on!
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  25. #50
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    The best sound I have gotten out of my Maggies is with double 10 Ga solid core. Have not tried bi-amping yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Jimenez
    I have tried it and the sound became diffuse.
    Sounds like you are possibly describing a wider, deeper soundstage.
    One mans junk is anothers treasure.

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