AQ"s DBS A reality?

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  • 06-29-2006, 11:40 AM
    Fergymunster
    AQ"s DBS A reality?
    I'm curiuos about the AQ Jaguar RCA.One is being broken in for me to try at a local store.
  • 07-05-2006, 02:54 PM
    superpanavision70mm
    I've seen them and heard them at a local shop near me. It was difficult for me to really notice any difference beccause the other cables used were all equally high-end. Sorry can't help.
  • 07-05-2006, 04:43 PM
    Fergymunster
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by superpanavision70mm
    I've seen them and heard them at a local shop near me. It was difficult for me to really notice any difference beccause the other cables used were all equally high-end. Sorry can't help.

    Thanks for the responce.I think I'm going to bag that idea as that cable is around $275 and from what I researched the Jaguar is exactly like the King Cobra except the Jaguar has DBS.Also my AQ King Cobra is now fully broken in and after around 300 hours of play it's the most vital link in my system and I would be foolish to try to better it.
  • 07-05-2006, 05:04 PM
    ruadmaa
    Cables DO NOT require break in.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fergymunster
    Thanks for the responce.I think I'm going to bag that idea as that cable is around $275 and from what I researched the Jaguar is exactly like the King Cobra except the Jaguar has DBS.Also my AQ King Cobra is now fully broken in and after around 300 hours of play it's the most vital link in my system and I would be foolish to try to better it.

    Please see the attached link "10 Biggest Lies In Audio" and read lie number 6.

    Cables do not "Burn In" Never have, never will. A cable that is used for 1000 hours will sound exactly the same as a brand new cable, PERIOD.

    http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf
  • 07-05-2006, 05:32 PM
    musicoverall
    Don't know about burn in for cables
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    Please see the attached link "10 Biggest Lies In Audio" and read lie number 6.

    Cables do not "Burn In" Never have, never will. A cable that is used for 1000 hours will sound exactly the same as a brand new cable, PERIOD.

    http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf

    Never experienced it myself but then again I buy my cables used.

    But for a different opinion, one should check out other audio mags such as Stereophile or The Absolute Sound. They claim to have experienced cable burn in.

    Ruadmaa, thanks for this link. Isn't he about 80 years old now? Very doubtful he still has the hearing capability for subtleties so I wouldn't take his opinions to the bank. Still, as with all audio magazines, he has his target audience... his choir to preach to, so to speak. It's very unlikely that someone as extreme as Aczel would be taken seriously by the subjective side of audio.
  • 07-05-2006, 05:34 PM
    Fergymunster
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    Please see the attached link "10 Biggest Lies In Audio" and read lie number 6.

    Cables do not "Burn In" Never have, never will. A cable that is used for 1000 hours will sound exactly the same as a brand new cable, PERIOD.

    http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf

    Look,I'm not in the mood to get into a fight with you.I know as a fact that the cable sounds signifcantly better then it did 300 hours prior to me attaching it to my system.
  • 07-05-2006, 05:59 PM
    ruadmaa
    I Suggest It's Your Imagination
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fergymunster
    Look,I'm not in the mood to get into a fight with you.I know as a fact that the cable sounds signifcantly better then it did 300 hours prior to me attaching it to my system.

    Why don't you get a brand new cable of a similar type and see if you can tell which one you are listening to. A wire doesn't burn in, it simply conducts electricity. It doesn't conduct it any differently from the first minute you use it to the last. No change whatsoever. Sorry, scientific fact.

    As for getting into a fight, I simply told you a fact. Take it for what you will.

    You may also wish to read:

    http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...e-Breakin.html
  • 07-05-2006, 06:31 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    A wire doesn't burn in, it simply conducts electricity. It doesn't conduct it any differently from the first minute you use it to the last. No change whatsoever. Sorry, scientific fact.

    Or maybe factoid. There is a difference to be found with the dialectric.

    rw
  • 07-05-2006, 08:07 PM
    superpanavision70mm
    I have never experienced a difference in sound with certain gear over a period of time or even cables for that matter, but I do think that speakers break in a bit with time.
  • 07-06-2006, 04:14 AM
    musicoverall
    Sorry if this is hijacking a thread
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by superpanavision70mm
    I have never experienced a difference in sound with certain gear over a period of time or even cables for that matter, but I do think that speakers break in a bit with time.

    But which PSB speakers do you own? I've always wanted to hear those smaller floorstanding Image speakers. I've heard the Stratus series and also some of their small bookshelf speakers. Always an impressive line even for a confirmed planar guy like me.
  • 07-06-2006, 06:31 AM
    Fergymunster
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    Why don't you get a brand new cable of a similar type and see if you can tell which one you are listening to. A wire doesn't burn in, it simply conducts electricity. It doesn't conduct it any differently from the first minute you use it to the last. No change whatsoever. Sorry, scientific fact.

    As for getting into a fight, I simply told you a fact. Take it for what you will.

    You may also wish to read:

    http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...e-Breakin.html

    Ok,maybe breack-in is the wrong term.Here's how I noticed a dramatic difference.I have two sets of AQ king cobra's.One is hooked up to my Mini system into a Sirius reciever.The other is hooked up to the CA azur 640c into the Creek 21se amp.Since I use the Mini system- Siruis combination much more I thought after awhile of changing the cables around as there was something lacking in the CA-Creek combination.Once they were attached the difference was dramatic and sustained.Since you seem to know alot cables you tell me what happened to cause such a dramatic effect.
  • 07-06-2006, 06:47 AM
    ruadmaa
    Imagination Is A Powerful Thing
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fergymunster
    Ok,maybe breack-in is the wrong term.Here's how I noticed a dramatic difference.I have two sets of AQ king cobra's.One is hooked up to my Mini system into a Sirius reciever.The other is hooked up to the CA azur 640c into the Creek 21se amp.Since I use the Mini system- Siruis combination much more I thought after awhile of changing the cables around as there was something lacking in the CA-Creek combination.Once they were attached the difference was dramatic and sustained.Since you seem to know alot cables you tell me what happened to cause such a dramatic effect.

    No amount of break in or usage would account for the dramatic differences you cited.
  • 07-06-2006, 06:58 AM
    Fergymunster
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    No amount of break in or usage would account for the dramatic differences you cited.

    Oh yeah,"It's just my imagination runny away with me"Rolling Stones
  • 07-06-2006, 07:47 AM
    ruadmaa
    Suit Yourself
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fergymunster
    Oh yeah,"It's just my imagination runny away with me"Rolling Stones

    You were given FACTS, that you choose to believe myths is up to you. It will ultimately cost you a lot of money in the end with no significant improvement in your audio system.
  • 07-06-2006, 07:55 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fergymunster
    Oh yeah,"It's just my imagination runny away with me"Rolling Stones


    Some of us are more sensitive to changes in cables. You do hear what you hear.
  • 07-06-2006, 10:35 AM
    Fergymunster
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    You were given FACTS, that you choose to believe myths is up to you. It will ultimately cost you a lot of money in the end with no significant improvement in your audio system.

    Whatever,you have your scientific theory's and I have a priceless system.No need to argue as I'm enjoying my headphones right now,Good luck
  • 07-06-2006, 12:08 PM
    musicoverall
    What did I miss?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    You were given FACTS, that you choose to believe myths is up to you. It will ultimately cost you a lot of money in the end with no significant improvement in your audio system.

    I have no opinion of cable burn-in whatsoever but I still have to ask - what facts? What I saw was opinions by Peter Aczel, Gene DellaSalla and previously, by Roger Russell (although perhaps not about burn in... just some comments curiously devoid of current facts about cables in general - btw, a paper that our own resident scientist JNeutron said had so many holes he could drive a truck through it). What facts? What did I miss?
  • 07-06-2006, 01:25 PM
    ruadmaa
    Perhaps You Should Tell JNeutron
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by musicoverall
    I have no opinion of cable burn-in whatsoever but I still have to ask - what facts? What I saw was opinions by Peter Aczel, Gene DellaSalla and previously, by Roger Russell (although perhaps not about burn in... just some comments curiously devoid of current facts about cables in general - btw, a paper that our own resident scientist JNeutron said had so many holes he could drive a truck through it). What facts? What did I miss?

    Perhaps you should tell JNeutron that he doesn't know what he's talking about. I'll bet he would shoot you full of holes. You also might mention to Gene that he's full of hot air. Personally I highly respect the opinions of both men.
  • 07-06-2006, 01:39 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by musicoverall
    I have no opinion of cable burn-in whatsoever but I still have to ask - what facts? What I saw was opinions by Peter Aczel, Gene DellaSalla and previously, by Roger Russell (although perhaps not about burn in... just some comments curiously devoid of current facts about cables in general - btw, a paper that our own resident scientist JNeutron said had so many holes he could drive a truck through it). What facts? What did I miss?

    None really. If you follow the link, you will find that DeSalla's answer is:

    "Break In" is not a proven audible or measurable phenomenon.

    Therefore, it does not exist. Can he explain gravity?

    rw
  • 07-06-2006, 02:20 PM
    ruadmaa
    Gravity?????
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by E-Stat
    None really. If you follow the link, you will find that DeSalla's answer is:

    "Break In" is not a proven audible or measurable phenomenon.

    Therefore, it does not exist. Can he explain gravity?

    rw

    We are talking about electricity, not gravity, and electricity can be measured quite exactly. (please tell Jneutron that electricity can't be measured, see what he says) If a cable is changed so much by burn in that it could be heard by a human ear, it could certainly be measured by even the crudest electrical measuring device.
  • 07-06-2006, 02:40 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    If a cable is changed so much by burn in that it could be heard by a human ear, it could certainly be measured by even the crudest electrical measuring device.

    Well, there are zero measuring devices of any sort that support my experience quantifying audible differences among cables so you'll have to forgive my skepticism over your blanket statement. :)

    Tell me, what is the speaker cable inductance threshold for hearing HF rolloff with my electrostats? Surely you have an empirical number and demonstrable proof to support your response. The transformers fall to about 2 ohms above 10k. The cables are 8 feet in length.

    rw
  • 07-06-2006, 03:08 PM
    ruadmaa
    Wow so much measurable electricity???
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Well, there are zero measuring devices of any sort that support my experience quantifying audible differences among cables so you'll have to forgive my skepticism over your blanket statement. :)

    Tell me, what is the speaker cable inductance threshold for hearing HF rolloff with my electrostats? Surely you have an empirical number and demonstrable proof to support your response. The transformers fall to about 2 ohms above 10k. The cables are 8 feet in length.

    rw

    Don't ask me, I am not even remotely interested in electrical problems. I'm sure there are many who would be glad to answer your math problem. As for me, it has no bearing in actual hi-fi purchasing. If I were interested in electrostatic speakers I would simply go out and demo a few. I see very few people in hi-fi shops with calculators to figure out empirical numbers in relation to the speakers they are listening to.

    I enjoy Mr. Mozart and Mr.Beethoven, that doesn't mean that I have to play an instrument or even understand how to read music.
  • 07-06-2006, 04:15 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    Don't ask me, I am not even remotely interested in electrical problems. I'm sure there are many who would be glad to answer your math problem. As for me, it has no bearing in actual hi-fi purchasing.

    Interesting response. Yet you say that "If a cable is changed so much by burn in that it could be heard by a human ear, it could certainly be measured by even the crudest electrical measuring device."

    I'm no longer hearing that confident swagger. I think that sentiment vividly illustrates the fact that cable metrics are frequently analyzed in a vacuum with no concern for system matching. The real world consists of interactions with various components (and external factors like RF) where there is no single answer.

    rw
  • 07-06-2006, 04:44 PM
    ruadmaa
    Confident swagger???
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Interesting response. Yet you say that "If a cable is changed so much by burn in that it could be heard by a human ear, it could certainly be measured by even the crudest electrical measuring device."

    I'm no longer hearing that confident swagger. I think that sentiment vividly illustrates the fact that cable metrics are frequently analyzed in a vacuum with no concern for system matching. The real world consists of interactions with various components (and external factors like RF) where there is no single answer.

    rw

    I have been highly interested in and purchasing hi-fi gear for well over 40 years. Yes, I most certainly live in the real world. And amazing as it may seem, I have never had to do a math problem when I went to pick out audio gear. I'm afraid that I have to rely on the specifications listed by the manufacturer of that gear as most people do. I most certainly relied on people like Julian Hirsch and Ian Masters to do my measuring for me. I seriously doubt that you could do better than they.
  • 07-06-2006, 05:01 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    I most certainly relied on people like Julian Hirsch and Ian Masters to do my measuring for me. I seriously doubt that you could do better than they.

    I am confident that Julian was capable of obtaining very accurate measurements. The relevant question is: so what? Back when I was fifteen, I took my AR amplifier to a McIntosh clinic to get its distortion measured. Sure enough, the specs were as good as the magazines reported. I learned an important lesson then about the (lack of) importance of such. Why then did it sound horrible at low levels? The numbers provided data but not information.

    May he rest in peace with measurement champs such as a pair of his beloved AR-LSTs driven a Crown IC-150 preamp and DC-300a amplifier. :)

    rw