Amazing how some can tell subtle differences between cables.

[bturk667]

Gains: Bass detail, crisper and more vibrant high end, allows for better detail. Also, a better sense of air.
Loss: Background noise was quelled. Example: Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" on CD, has an audible amount of hiss. With the Blue Heavens in place, the hiss is less audible. It is easier to focus on the musicians and their masterful playing.

[markw]

Yeah, it does have hiss. It's part of the recording, or at least the media it's recorded on.

Now, if that hiss is part of the recording, and cables attenuate this particular frequency range for t his recording, how do they know to not attenuate this frequency range on recordings that don't have hiss in this range?

[bturk667]

Why ask me, ask Nordost. Anyway, that was just one example. The sound is cleaner on all recordings. By the way, "Kind of Blue" on vinyl, has no hiss!

[pctower]

Perhaps you should contact Dr Toole? He know how and what his data is on wires. It comes down to wire basics, R, I, C.

He has to my knowledge never even claimed to have conducted DBTs on cables. If you know otherwise, please enlighten me.

[Monstrous Mike]

He has to my knowledge never even claimed to have conducted DBTs on cables. If you know otherwise, please enlighten me.

I have second hand knowledge that he has conducted DBTs on speaker wires. When he was designing speakers and testing them, he wanted to make sure all of the variables in his DBTs on speakers were controlled and that included the cables. He found that cables did not affect the sound of his speakers.

I cannot verify this story but I have no reason to doubt the person that told me this.

[Tony_Montana]

If these kind of people [audiophiles] didn't exist, there would be no Audio industry and virtually no audiophiles. Companies such as Levinson, Rowland, Krell, Audio Research, MIT, Transparent, Audioquest, Conrad-Johnson, Vandersteen, SoundLab, etc would never have come into existence and this site would not exist if audiophiles took the scientific approach the few stallwarts on this board seem to demand.

I really don't see what that got to do with cables. Are you saying that any audiophile that don't belive in exotic bales is not an audiophile-even if they owns expensive equipment from companies you mentioned?

There are alot of audiophile or professionals (even on this site such as Terrence or Greene) that do own or worked with expensive components, but do not belive in exotic cables. And they like listen to music as much as next audiophile

[mtrycraft]

I have second hand knowledge that he has conducted DBTs on speaker wires. When he was designing speakers and testing them, he wanted to make sure all of the variables in his DBTs on speakers were controlled and that included the cables. He found that cables did not affect the sound of his speakers.

I cannot verify this story but I have no reason to doubt the person that told me this.

A number of years ago I corresponded with him on this and a couple of other issues. Your second hand story is factual Cables boiled down to the old standard, R, C, L. nothing more.

[zapr]

Why ask me, ask Nordost. Anyway, that was just one example. The sound is cleaner on all recordings. By the way, "Kind of Blue" on vinyl, has no hiss!

........Thanks bturk667. Which Nordost cables do you use and can you tell me how much $? I'm looking for something that will tone the treble region down somewhat without spending a whole lot.........Zapr.

[mtrycraft]

........Thanks bturk667. Which Nordost cables do you use and can you tell me how much $?

Too much for what it just cannot do, has not been demonstrated it can do.




I'm looking for something that will tone the treble region down somewhat without spending a whole lot.........Zapr.

Use your tone control, it is free. Or, add a resistor in the line, maybe a 1/2 ohm, will tame your treble, about a $1. Or, cover your tweeter, free.

[zapr]

........Thanks bturk667. Which Nordost cables do you use and can you tell me how much $?

Too much for what it just cannot do, has not been demonstrated it can do.




I'm looking for something that will tone the treble region down somewhat without spending a whole lot.........Zapr.

Use your tone control, it is free. Or, add a resistor in the line, maybe a 1/2 ohm, will tame your treble, about a $1. Or, cover your tweeter, free.

........Thanks Mtry. Any idea where I could get such a resistor. I checked rat shack but they don't carry resistors anymore..........Zapr.

[mtrycraft]

........Thanks Mtry. Any idea where I could get such a resistor. I checked rat shack but they don't carry resistors anymore..........Zapr.

That is hard to believe they don't. Try the yellow pages for an electronics parts store. On line search?

[Sealed]

Richard Dunlavy of the defunkt speaker company did a really dirty thing to a group of audiophiles. He sat them down in a listening room. He allowed them to see "assistants" in lab coats "swap" anaconda-thick cable in place of some AWG 12 OFC. The comments were mostly "Wow ! what an incredible improvement!!!" "My God Richard...tell me you can't hear that!" Problem is, they never actually switched out the cables from the AWG 12.

I believe that cables are in essence, a tone filter. I believe the compensate for system nasties. That does not mean I endorse expensive cables. I think it is obscene and criminal for NBS to charge $30,000 for cables. $3000 is obscene for that matter, it's just wire!!! $3000 will get you a killer source component or speakers that will make a BIG difference, not a cable that makes a small one.

I have tried MIT cables in my system, and let me tell you...the results were ugly. The R/C of that stuff must be very high. It was like putting a towel over my tweeters. OFC 12 sounded better. MIT does some nasty things to color the signal.

DNM cable (not recommended for speaker cable!) has poor sheilding. You can hear the loss treble and bass. Your system goes flat, because a lot of the signal is radiated into space.

I have some old Audioquest cables that work exceptionally well. They are based on a helically wound copper, insulated by teflon, and again around the conductors by polypropelene. These can be found used for a few bucks. But they have exceptionally low R/C charactaristics, and exceptional shieilding.

The gist of all this is that IMO cables filter the sound. A good cable has low resistance to the signal, and good shielding. I prefer the best signal transfer, and that solution comes a lot cheaper than the cable industry will have you believe. I do not believe in "cable miracles." My AQ cable is a LITTLE better than standard OFC because of it's construction. But to say "Oh my Lord, it's night and day!!!" would be misrepresenting the contribution that cables have IMO.

[bturk667]

I use the Nordost Blue Heavens; they retail for @ $180 a meter. Now the Solar Wind are also very good, there retail price is @ $120 a meter. You might want to take a listen to the kimber Kable Hero. It is a little softer in the high-end than the Nordost Blue Heavens. Their retail price ia @ $150 a meter. I know that these cables are expensive, but I feel there worth it.

[bturk667]

Funny thing, Dunlavy had their own speaker cables that you could buy, go figure!

[Sealed]

Dunlavy, along with Frank Van Alstein are basically whores when it comes to cables. Both went to great lengths to decry high end cables. But due to companies pressuring them, the coalesced, and ended up endorsing and/or making certain cables.

That tells you that the promise of income kicks any ethics butt.

[zapr]

That is hard to believe they don't. Try the yellow pages for an electronics parts store. On line search?

.......Yeah I thought it strange they would drop resistors. In the area I live, Kitchener Ont. Ca, all rat shack stores don't carry resistors anymore. They said they were'nt selling......Zapr.

[pctower]

Dunlavy, along with Frank Van Alstein are basically whores when it comes to cables. Both went to great lengths to decry high end cables. But due to companies pressuring them, the coalesced, and ended up endorsing and/or making certain cables.

That tells you that the promise of income kicks any ethics butt.

I find it interesting that passions involving cables run so deep that two giants of audio who have contributed far more to audio than any of us web junkies will ever dream of are referred to as "whores".

[Sealed]

I find it interesting that passions involving cables run so deep that two giants of audio who have contributed far more to audio than any of us web junkies will ever dream of are referred to as "whores".

I have talked to Frank on the phone, and via e-mail. I own some AVA gear. It's great stuff. However, he sold out his ethics and pricipals. He was dyed in the wool anti-snake oil/cable etc. He got pressure from cable companies to back off, he was potentially hurting thier sales. So he decides he will go with the ever popular Kimber kable, almost in direct contradiction of his own mantra over many years. That is pretty much whoring yourself out. Frank is a great guy, and makes great stuff, but he caved and sold out.

[Tony_Montana]

A good cable has low resistance to the signal, and good shielding. I prefer the best signal transfer, and that solution comes a lot cheaper than the cable industry will have you believe.

Bingo my friend, you said it all. Transparency (best signal transfer) concept is so easy to grasp-and not that expensive or hard to achieve, but nightmarish concept for those who believe in cable's sound

[markw]

I find it interesting that passions involving cables run so deep that two giants of audio who have contributed far more to audio than any of us web junkies will ever dream of are referred to as "whores".

I guess that puts them in the same league as lawyers now.

[pctower]

I guess that puts them in the same league as lawyers now.

Gee Mark. How in the world did you ever get so clever and creative? No, rather how did you rid yourself of every last bit of self-respect to the point that you could so freely throw out such trite and tired stuff?

[markw]

I never could resist a good straight line. Thanks for throwing me the bone.

[mtrycraft]

Richard Dunlavy of the defunkt speaker company did a really dirty thing to a group of audiophiles. He sat them down in a listening room. He allowed them to see "assistants" in lab coats "swap" anaconda-thick cable in place of some AWG 12 OFC. The comments were mostly "Wow ! what an incredible improvement!!!" "My God Richard...tell me you can't hear that!" Problem is, they never actually switched out the cables from the AWG 12.


I didn't know John Dunlavy had a brother Richard.
You have a problem with that demonstration of people's gullibility? A prime example, easy to replicate day in and day out, even under sighted conditions

I believe that cables are in essence, a tone filter.

Well, if you want fractional dB differences on the order of .2-.5dB, go for it. Good luck hearing it.

I believe the compensate for system nasties.

Same as above.

That does not mean I endorse expensive cables.

You just endores ineffective tone controls.



I think it is obscene and criminal for NBS to charge $30,000 for cables. $3000 is obscene for that matter, it's just wire!!! $3000 will get you a killer source component or speakers that will make a BIG difference, not a cable that makes a small one.=

Ah, now we're quibbling about price?

Your system goes flat, because a lot of the signal is radiated into space.

What? where did you get this nonsense? You have zero evidence for this either measured effect or audible effect of this.

I have some old Audioquest cables that work exceptionally well. They are based on a helically wound copper, insulated by teflon, and again around the conductors by polypropelene. These can be found used for a few bucks. But they have exceptionally low R/C charactaristics, and exceptional shieilding.


Great A few bucks sounds good to me.

The gist of all this is that IMO cables filter the sound.

Well, I think your gist went beyond that here.

A good cable has low resistance to the signal, and good shielding. I prefer the best signal transfer, and that solution comes a lot cheaper than the cable industry will have you believe.

Hey, we agree


My AQ cable is a LITTLE better than standard OFC because of it's construction.

Great

[mtrycraft]

Funny thing, Dunlavy had their own speaker cables that you could buy, go figure!

How is that funny? He filled his customers desires.

[mtrycraft]

Dunlavy, along with Frank Van Alstein are basically whores when it comes to cables. Both went to great lengths to decry high end cables. But due to companies pressuring them, the coalesced, and ended up endorsing and/or making certain cables.That tells you that the promise of income kicks any ethics butt.

Do you have any proof of your slanderous allegations? What claims did Dunlavy make on top of his demontrations of the preposterous claims for audible differences in cables are bogus?