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Thread: DIY Sub

  1. #1
    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    DIY Sub

    I'm just curious to know some good "do it yourself sub" projects for a beginner (me) I currently have a Hsu Vtf-2 and I love it but I'm almost finished constructing my Home Theater and am looking for more projects to do. I don't care if it is a kit but would love a tube if possible to fit behind a curtain that runs along the front of the room. My room is 14' X 23." I'd really like to build a tower speaker but I don't want to get over my head. Again, I've never done anything like this but have always wanted to build one. Any advice you can give would be appreciated. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hmmmm
    I'm just curious to know some good "do it yourself sub" projects for a beginner (me) I currently have a Hsu Vtf-2 and I love it but I'm almost finished constructing my Home Theater and am looking for more projects to do. I don't care if it is a kit but would love a tube if possible to fit behind a curtain that runs along the front of the room. My room is 14' X 23." I'd really like to build a tower speaker but I don't want to get over my head. Again, I've never done anything like this but have always wanted to build one. Any advice you can give would be appreciated. Thanks!
    Hmmm, we might have something right up your alley:
    http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_fi...ts/RT3/rt3.htm

    I haven't heard this sub personally, but Wayne J's designs are always top notch, he's a guru to many in the DIY world.

    As for inexpensive sub options...well, we'd kind of need to know your budget. I use to have a VTF-2, I liked it too. But you can do much better going the DIY route with a bit of patience, and time.

    Subs are the easiest DIY projects usually.

    A good tower shouldn't be too hard either, it's just bigger. Though I'd ask, if you end up with a good sub, why the need for a tower? To me that adds a bunch of expense, and not necessarily any performance.

    Have you built any speakers before?

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    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    I haven't tried to build a speaker yet. I own a lot of wood working tools but have no experience at all with this kind of project. I do have time on my hands though and several credit cards Really though, as far as a budget, $500.00 or less and I already have the glue! Thanks for the help.

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    Next question...how ambitious are you.
    You can do anything from buying a pre-assembled kit (most expensive), assemble a kit, or start from scratch, make your own box, cut out the holes and connect everything.

    You will need to access a plunge router, and hopefully you have a drill and an orbital sander or belt sander or something. Can you solder? (yes you can it's easy, but you might need a soldering iron).

    Next you will have to let us know, is this sub used mostly for music, home theater, or a good mix of both? How loud do you want this to go? Do you want volume and low, low subsonic bass at the expense of sound quality (ie: great for HT, less so for music). Finally, how big (or small) do you want this unit to be?

    If size doesn't matter, I'd recommend a 15" sealed subwoofer...and I've got a few ideas...I'm pretty sure we can get you something in the $250-$400 range that will be a big step up on what you have now, and leave you some cash left over for buying any tools you might need...

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    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    I would prefer to build the box myself because I have the table saws etc... Would like to try to veneer it also.

    "You will need to access a plunge router, and hopefully you have a drill and an orbital sander or belt sander or something. Can you solder? (yes you can it's easy, but you might need a soldering iron)."

    I have the router but not the sanders (can get one). And I've never soldered but am willing to learn.

    Next you will have to let us know, is this sub used mostly for music, home theater, or a good mix of both? How loud do you want this to go? Do you want volume and low, low subsonic bass at the expense of sound quality (ie: great for HT, less so for music). Finally, how big (or small) do you want this unit to be?

    I would say 50/50 for music and movies. I'm a freak when it comes to sound quality on music and listen to a lot of SACD's, DVD-A etc... I also watch and host movie parties frequently. Quality of sound is much more important to me than "subsonic" however, I love the "feel" of those low frequencies. I would say at least 25hz like my Hsu -even though my slp meter picks it up at 20hz.

    If size doesn't matter, I'd recommend a 15" sealed subwoofer...and I've got a few ideas...I'm pretty sure we can get you something in the $250-$400 range that will be a big step up on what you have now, and leave you some cash left over for buying any tools you might need...[/QUOTE]
    I probably have the room for the 15" ...but I don't want anything huge. It could be larger than my Hsu however. I have a medium sized room that can be completely closed off with doors etc...

    My next question is "what does sealed verse ported do for me?"
    I have a CSW MC500 center channel which is sealed and two MC60's which are ported. The smaller ported speakers actually go lower and are half the size. Is the sealed more acurate? The center channel was twice as much as the two bookshelf speakers.

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    For speakers, there's more complications to the sealed vs. ported pros and cons.

    For subs, a 15" sealed will provide superior sound quality, but for a given size box will have lower max SPL and a reduced frequency extension. No matter. I know of a a 15" sealed sub can easily get you to 20 Hz with SPL in the 110 dB for about $300. (mayber more SPL, just being conservative).

    You can play a bit with box dimensions, but think roughly 20 cubic inches...you can adjust dimensions by increasing others to make it fit...a bit of play.

    There's a ton of options, this is just one really popular design I'm thinking of...very inexpensive, but it requires the large cabinet.

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    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    about 20" would be fine for a sealed subwoofer. What are you thinking...

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    First you need to pick your woofer. There's three 15" that I like, but my favorite is actually the cheapest one (lowest xmax and therefore the best sound quality in my opinion.) It won't be the loudest, but it will still be loud, the Dayton Quatro 15" woofer - about $86.
    Because it's really efficient, you can get by with either the 240 watt or 250 watt (without bass boost) amps from parts express.
    I'd recommend waiting for the 240 watt amp, it has soft clipping circuitry that will protect the woofer from bottoming out etc if you ever get close to maxing out the sub. If you don't crank the volume to sick levels though, the 250 watt is fine, just be careful, and don't turn the volume up all the way.
    The 250 watt amp is good in it's own right with the built in rumble filter that eliminates wasting power on frequencies outside the woofers ability. Factor $120 -$140 for the amp.

    Add another $5-$10 for stuffing, then your glue, MDF, and whatever veneer or vinyl wrap you decide to use.

    Build this in an approximately 3.5 cubic ft cabinet (internal volume). I have a sub on the go with the external dimensions 19.5" X 19.5" X 22" (W,H,D) which oversizes this a bit to account for the woofer and amp displacement. Use 0.75" MDF with a 1.5" front baffle (2 slabs glued). This will also need an internal brace. I'd use a plunge router to cut out a hole the same size as the driver cutout and make the brace 18" X 18" (internal W X H). You can use an H brace or something too though.
    This gets you pretty handy to 3.5 cu ft, then stuff the box with some acousta-stuff or polyfill...experiment with how much, but you'll probably just line the sides...

    You can pretty much swap in the 15" DVC sub, the Adire Tempest, or a few other 15" models, but the Quatro has all the sound quality these have and more than enough SPL for most.
    http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....ctGroup_ID=505

    and
    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...=295-560&DID=7

    240 or 250 watts is more than enough, don't be worried about that.

    For advice from people far more knowledgeable than me, you can visit the parts express forums...that's were a good chunk of the above info came from.

    You might want to flag "poneal" (Paul O'Neal), a regular here who's built one of these and loves it.
    Here's his page with pics.
    http://home.stx.rr.com/poneal/pages/quattro15.html

  9. #9
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    15" Quattro rules....

    This inexpensive subwoofer delivers the goods. Mate it with the 240watt plate amp with the soft clipping and 24db octave in a sealed box and your in bass heaven. Seriously this is a really good sub and amp and beats the pants of many 3x more expensive drivers. For the design I created here is a link. Once on the site just click the 15" Quattro project.

    http://home.stx.rr.com/poneal/index....&Page=Speakers

    Have fun and enjoy. Everything you need to know is there.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    this is the one.

    Quote Originally Posted by poneal
    This inexpensive subwoofer delivers the goods. Mate it with the 240watt plate amp with the soft clipping and 24db octave in a sealed box and your in bass heaven. Seriously this is a really good sub and amp and beats the pants of many 3x more expensive drivers. For the design I created here is a link. Once on the site just click the 15" Quattro project.

    http://home.stx.rr.com/poneal/index....&Page=Speakers

    Have fun and enjoy. Everything you need to know is there.
    This looks like a great project for me. Poneal, your sub looks great! Kexodusc and your dimensions look like they vary a bit and Kexodusc has a double thick front panel? I just read over things quickly but will print out all of the directions and I'm sure I'll come up with a lot of questions. I'll check out parts express's forums.
    Thanks so much for everything.

  11. #11
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    Hmmm: The difference in dimensions doesn't matter so much as the final internal volume (which also has a lot of flexibility). The double thick front panel isn't absolutely necessary, but MDF is cheap. There's a lot of force when that woofer is moving...it might not be necessary except at louder volumes, but it certainly won't hurt to have the thicker front baffle...and it would absorb more cabinet resonance.
    If you can find 1" thick MDF all the way around, that would be another option as well. Just as long as the cabinet is built sturdy and sealed well.
    If you have dado blades for a table saw, I'd recommend doing a mortis and tennon or rabbet joint...use alot of glue, and then silicone seal every crack. I even go sor far as to use auto body-fill (Bondo) on the exterior to get a smooth seam, and further seal a cabinet. You could use drywall compound. This might be overkill though, but the less leakage, the better.

    You're gonna have a ton of fun.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    I'm heading to Lowe's tomorrow!

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    Could I biscuit join this if I use a lot of glue?

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    Tech support at Parts express recommended that I actually get the 250 watt with the bass boost because of a 6 decibal drop at the lower frequency instead of the 240. Any comments? I'm going to place an order later today.

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    Really, I'm surprised? Most of the comments on the PE forum favor the 240 watt amp, then the 250 watt amp WITHOUT boost, then the 250 watt amp with boost.
    Up to you really. I know they'd love to move the 250 watt amps with bass boost as they're currently out of stock of the 240 watt amps.

    I forgot to mention this to you earlier, but I would also add a Behringer Feedback Destroyer to your sub purchase for Parametric EQ. To me this is essential to get a flat sub response in your room...most rooms give a +/- of 12 dB or more. The BFD will counter that. If you decide to add a BFD now, or in the future, the bass boost becomes useless to you.

    I'd post a question at the Tech Talk board, ask them for opinions, tell them what the Tech support told you. In the end, I think you can get excellent results with any of the 3. The subtle differences will really only matter if you max out the amps power capacity, or don't use Parametric Eq'ing as described above.
    I'm looking at ordering another one now, and I'm leaning towards the 250 amp without boost because it's available...but I might wait for the 240 watt amp.

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    Thanks for all the information here, guys! I'm planning on building a sub too and you have it all laid out. :-)

    One thing I wondered about though -- what is the difference with a down-firing sub? Is the sound any better/worse? That would eliminate the need for a grill too, so I was leaning toward that design.

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    I'm in a hurry but wanted to get back to you. I called back and talked a bit more to another tech and he said he'd probably go with the 240 but I'd have to wait a few weeks.
    Thanks.

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    Well, I ordered the 240 watt amp along with everything else last night. I also built the box but didn't glue or cut any holes. The tech guy gave me the hole cutout sizes but said not to cut them before they arrive. This is a lot of fun!

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    I'm glad you held out for the 240 watt amp. The 15" Quatro is a excellent sounding woofer with a low x-max (which I believe is why it sounds better)...what it gives up over more expensive 15" units is sheer brute power and output ability...you'd pay an extra $100 or $200 just achieve a 3 or 6 dB increase before maxing out. In all honesty, a 110 dB capable sub (such as the Quatro) is plenty for most, and if it's not, you'd be better off to add a 2nd sub IMO. (with room gain, though I can't imagine unless you are a huge bass head).
    The 240 watt amp will prevent your sub from clipping and bottoming out etc should you ever feel the need to push it near its limits...nice feature...
    Is it back in stock?

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    It won't be back in stock for 3 more weeks and they will fill backorders first. I'm assuming the amp will be centered in the back panel. I checked out the dado blades and didn't want to dish out the money, but the biscuit joiner worked great and it only took me about 5 minutes.
    I'm going to go ahead and cut the hole for the amp. It looks like it has a pretty good overhang, unlike the speaker. I'll have the speaker on Thursday...

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    Are you going to mount the speaker on the bottom or on the side? I'm thinking a downfiring sub would be better.

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    Hmmm, I've just placed my backorder too. Dado's aren't necessary, and yeah, if you don't already have them or won't use them a bunch, don't bother.
    You might want to wait for the amp to come in before cutting, sometimes the dimensions are inaccurate, or change in production runs a bit...been there, done that...it won't take long once the amp arrives to cut it then, and at least it'll be done right.

    bcass: There's no real advantage to a downfiring sub, and infact, with gravity working against the woofer motor, there can be more disadvantages (quicker wear, more power requirement, diminished response and accuracy). I'm not against downfiring subs, and I'm not sure the disadvantages always translate into real world performance loss all the time, but for simplicity, unless you've got a good reason for a downfiring sub, I wouldn't bother.
    It makes for a fun project though, if just to be different.

  23. #23
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    brace

    [QUOTE=kexodusc]Hmmm, I've just placed my backorder too. Dado's aren't necessary, and yeah, if you don't already have them or won't use them a bunch, don't bother.
    You might want to wait for the amp to come in before cutting, sometimes the dimensions are inaccurate, or change in production runs a bit...been there, done that...it won't take long once the amp arrives to cut it then, and at least it'll be done right.

    I'll wait to cut. I'm just excited and impatient I guess. For the internal brace...do you place it in the center of the box? I'll go ahead and use the router to make the brace also.

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    Uh yeah, centered is fine...You're going to cut out a 15" hole in a big square piece of MDF remember, so there's lots room for the driver's back and the amp to go through. I'm told it helps cut down on internal standing waves a bit as well, and if nothing else, probably allows for holding the polyfill up a bit better.

    Do you have a veneer picked out?

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    I haven't picked out a venner yet but I did look. I'm an artist by trade, so I'm debating on possibly painting it a rich red color and doing something funky with the grill or something else to make it look more unique. I have a custom framing shop and am designing all of the time so I always like to come up with unique approaches as long as it doesn't affect performance.
    I was curious if building two identicle subs in a 14 x 23 room would make much of a difference. I've heard different opinions about whether it's worth it. My wife might kill me anyway if I do...

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