Trying To Prove A Point

[Geoffcin]

Why, should be something you answer Geoff. You've given us nothing but talk with no proof. Maybe you should go back and read the original post, I've supplied ample information to show my point, I'm waiting on yours. I don't think that's too much to ask since you are trying to go against the majority of the audio world.

No, you've posted a lot of stuff that you don't understand, or have totally misinterpreted. I'm not going to go out and search the web to dig up things to impress you. Why, so you can then tell me that you have a different view of what a decibel really is? Like that's something that is debatable?!

The sad facts are that a lot of what I've read in this post amount to audio superstition. Besides a degree in engineering, I have a minor in anthropology, and I can tell you that superstition is something that is about as hard to get through as reinforced concrete. I'm not going to bother trying anymore. What I've written so far will have to suffice. You can believe it or not. It is your choice.

[BallinWithNash]

And again no one has explained why you buy a more powerful amp for you sub?????

[BallinWithNash]

No, you've posted a lot of stuff that you don't understand, or have totally misinterpreted. I'm not going to go out and search the web to dig up things to impress you. Why, so you can then tell me that you have a different view of what a decibel really is? Like that's something that is debatable?!

The sad facts are that a lot of what I've read in this post amount to audio superstition. Besides a degree in engineering, I have a minor in anthropology, and I can tell you that superstition is something that is about as hard to get through as reinforced concrete. I'm not going to bother trying anymore. What I've written so far will have to suffice. You can believe it or not. It is your choice.

That sounds like the words of a loser.

[BallinWithNash]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QyYaPWasos ... hehe

[harley .guy07]

Mr. Peabody I would love to help you continue to back your point but it is getting to the point of a pissing match and I know that the bigger the motor structure and driver the more power needed to drive it to it limits and that is what it is. Its electromagnetic reality. I'm done

[Geoffcin]

Well yes, but that is a sub woofer playing a 90HZ note has a wave length of 3.3310e+6 meters versus a tweeter playing a 100000Hz note has a wave length of 2.9979e+3 ... those two wave lengths are different so wouldn't it take more power to reproduce the longer wave length?

And on the other note why do we have subs, tweeters, and midrange speakers if each speaker can handle everything? there would be no point to buy a larger amp for a sub?

No it would not. Longer waves do not mean more power.

All drivers have good and bad attributes. You choose a driver based on what job (frequency) you want to to do, and how well it will work in your design. Midrange speakers are often very efficient into the treble, but they beam when the wave goes below their diameter. They also breakup when the frequency goes past what they were designed for. Woofers have the same type of problem into the midrange. Tweeters are very inefficient into the bass, so it pays to design your speaker with multiple drivers to take advantage of the good attributes of them, and to minimize the bad ones.

[BallinWithNash]

How do longer waves not mean more power if you had a 30 sec sine wav and a 10 sec sine wav which would take more power to produce? ... well the 30 sec one would because its longer the amp's would be playing music longer.

[Geoffcin]

Mr. Peabody I would love to help you continue to back your point but it is getting to the point of a pissing match and I know that the bigger the motor structure and driver the more power needed to drive it to it limits and that is what it is. Its electromagnetic reality. I'm done

Actually the larger and more powerful the magnet structure of the driver the MORE efficient it is. This is another case of "audio superstition" based on what you think it SHOULD be by comparing audio drivers to chevy small blocks.

[Geoffcin]

How do longer waves not mean more power if you had a 30 sec sine wav and a 10 sec sine wav which would take more power to produce? ... well the 30 sec one would because its longer the amp's would be playing music longer.

Are you for real?

Do you really not know the difference between measuring the length of a wave in meters or in seconds?

[BallinWithNash]

haha i know i was just seeing you would catch it hehe and i thought the bigger it is the more resistance it has ... i dont know on this one that's just what i though so correct me on this one, please and again why DO WE BUY BIGGER AMPLIFIERS FOR SUBS???

[poppachubby]

How do longer waves not mean more power if you had a 30 sec sine wav and a 10 sec sine wav which would take more power to produce? ... well the 30 sec one would because its longer the amp's would be playing music longer.

Hahahahha, you were doin pretty good until this nugget!! That's gold...

[Mr Peabody]

Geoff, I really didn't think you would as you've brought up several irrelevant topics to the original question posed. The articles I posted for the most part covered a lot of ground, i was willing to post them but not willing to cherry pick the relevant points out. Each one had specific information to show it takes more power to reproduce bass than higher frequencies. If you aren't willing to show otherwise then so be it. If what you were saying is true then it would have showed up in my searches.

I can understand your frustration but, superstition? Please

[BallinWithNash]

Hahahahha, you were doin pretty good until this nugget!! That's gold...

yea i thought so too ... my mind is at other places right now im trying to figure out how to get a new circuit board in my xbox ... with out voiding the warranty ... off topic any how yea my bad haha

[Geoffcin]

haha i know i was just seeing you would catch it hehe and i thought the bigger it is the more resistance it has ... i dont know on this one that's just what i though so correct me on this one, please and again why DO WE BUY BIGGER AMPLIFIERS FOR SUBS???

OK, the reason we buy larger amps for subs is because for the most part subs are much more INEFFICIENT than loudspeakers over the frequency range that they cover. So, if your sub has a 80dB efficiency over it's range, say 30Hz-100Hz, and your main speaker is 89dB over it's range, to match the main speaker correctly you would need SIX times the power.

HOWEVER, if you had a sub that DID have the same efficiency as your main speaker, then 1 watt of input energy would make the same SPL as the main even though the frequency was lower.

Anyway, that's it for me tonight. Hope everyone had fun!

[BallinWithNash]

OK, the reason we buy larger amps for subs is because for the most part subs are much more INEFFICIENT than loudspeakers over the frequency range that they cover. So, if your sub has a 80dB efficiency over it's range, say 30Hz-100Hz, and your main speaker is 89dB over it's range, to match the main speaker correctly you would need SIX times the power.

HOWEVER, if you had a sub that DID have the same efficiency as your main speaker, then 1 watt of input energy would make the same SPL as the main even though the frequency was lower.

Anyway, that's it for me tonight. Hope everyone had fun!

So your saying if someone made the "perfect" speaker it would be the same but since know one has done that yet ....... me and pea are right?

[Geoffcin]

So your saying if someone made the "perfect" speaker it would be the same but since know one has done that yet ....... me and pea are right?

Actually I have made the perfect speaker, but because you and pea busted my stones you aren't invited over to hear it!

[BallinWithNash]

Actually I have made the perfect speaker, but because you and pea busted my stones you aren't invited over to hear it!

Luckily I can back trace your IP address hahaha ... way to much work though I am happy with what I got .... and so basically when it comes down to it we are both right it just depends on the setting?

[Geoffcin]

Luckily I can back trace your IP address hahaha ... way to much work though I am happy with what I got .... and so basically when it comes down to it we are both right it just depends on the setting?

No actually I am always right, unless of course your talking about when hell freezes over and then you would be too.

[BallinWithNash]

I'm not going to lie so confused right now, I have no clue what just happened haha and i could very easily back trace your ip to your zip code

[BallinWithNash]

and im pretty sure you didnt make the perfect speaker or you would be filthy rich and not talking to me and arguing about it haha

[harley .guy07]

the next time you are at a live music venue ask the sound guy what he is powering his mid and high stage speakers and his woofer cabinets with and see which one it using a higher power amp. The sensetivity of given driver is what one watt will produce with this driver but try to tell me a run of the mill 10 inch woofer with a xmax of around 5mm with a sensetivity of 90 db with a 60 ounce magnet, 2 inch voice coil and mildly rigid paper cone and a 10 inch woofer with an xmax of around 12.5mm and a motor structure with a 4 inch voice coil and a 190 ounce magnet with a much stiffer cone structure with also 90 db efficiency will put out the same amount of sound at 1 watt but it will certainly take more power to take the longer excursion woofer to its limits than the run of the mill woofer. My point is that sensitivity is measured at 1 watt, but thats not the say that it will not take more power for a higher compliance woofer than a lower end unit. just a point and thats it

[BallinWithNash]

Yes go harley i think we took the lead again haha

[harley .guy07]

well being insulted about the chevy small block thing cracks me up because you are at a point that you have to insult someone to make your point. That is a sign that your points are not justified and you are trying to just be bullish in your comments and that is not needed what so ever. I have been around home sound and pro sound for many years and the last thing I would so is try to insult someone I would just try to make your point and not worry so much about what others say. And if you made the perfect speaker then for damn sure I would have would heard about it know.

[harley .guy07]

And another point. With human hearing being as varying in its perception of sound there is no such thing as the perfect speaker. Every persons perception of sound is different and the whole concept of the perfect speaker would make most of us crack up, there are too many variables in this to say that one person has made the perfect speaker. For you maybe but not for everyone else with different ears and concepts of what that "perfect sound" is

[harley .guy07]

Hahahahha, you were doin pretty good until this nugget!! That's gold...

Actually the whole concept of stiffening capacitors in amplifiers are for dynamic peaks. A long sine wave at 30 hertz at high volumes would be a dynamic peak would it not. that is why more power is needed for those type of peaks. It might be different than discribed above but it still is a a peak non the less.