• 08-06-2009, 07:15 PM
    jrhymeammo
    DIY Roomlens: H*** F***ing S**t
    I've been looking for them on Audiogon, but I got sick of waiting and couldn't get myself to pay such amount.

    To make one unit, I ended up paying $0.75 for lumber and $14 for PVC pipes (3ct).

    2"x4"x8' - cut them into 3.5" squares and cut out 2 3/8" holes.
    2"x8"x8 - Cut them into 8 sections of 12" width.
    5 ft, 2" PVC pipes, but they are not equal in legth as seem below.
    Wood glue - non euphoric :out:

    These things are no joke.
    Sound is crystal clear and free from coloration.
    I had expected and wanted sound stage to be bigger, but that has not been the case. Again, sound stage NOT bigger but freakishly clear. I imagine this is due to elimination of flutter echo and disperson of higher freq.


    I have enough suppliers to make 5 more units so I plan to add another pair on the outside of speakers, 1 in the front center, and 2 behind my seating positions.
    I haven't had chance to stuff them with polyerster stuffings, but not sure if I'll even mess with it. I'll be sure to cap off the ends though.


    http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/.../DSC000171.JPG

    http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/...0/DSC00013.JPG

    http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/...Y_Roomlens.JPG

    http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/...Roomlens_2.JPG


    :biggrin5::biggrin5::biggrin5:
    JRA
  • 08-07-2009, 03:48 AM
    kexodusc
    Cool...I've got a ton of scrap plywood and PVC sitting in my garage I was actually going to toss....hmmm....something else to build and put in my room to piss the wife off...mwa ha ha ha...
  • 08-07-2009, 09:28 AM
    H*** F***ing S**t?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    These things are no joke.
    Sound is crystal clear and free from coloration.
    I had expected and wanted sound stage to be bigger, but that has not been the case. Again, sound stage NOT bigger but freakishly clear. I imagine this is due to elimination of flutter echo and disperson of higher freq.

    Appologies for the dumb question, but how do these work?
  • 08-07-2009, 04:42 PM
    jrhymeammo
    I can get away with this because I'm single
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Cool...I've got a ton of scrap plywood and PVC sitting in my garage I was actually going to toss....hmmm....something else to build and put in my room to piss the wife off...mwa ha ha ha...

    Yeah, they do look hideous upclose. I think it's time for the "Krylon touch". If it look marginally better than the MACCO job, I would be satisfied.

    If you can get away with above monstrosity, then you may want to give it a strong consideration.
  • 08-07-2009, 04:55 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nightflier
    Appologies for the dumb question, but how do these work?

    I think I should Copy & Paste reviews on the web, but my non-educated guess would be:

    "non-flat surface scatters sound more dispersedly than a flat surface.".

    I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, but I know they work absolutely work in my room.
    Since the tubes are spaced .75 to 1.5" apart, I don't think they cover the entire audible band.


  • 08-08-2009, 05:32 PM
    JoeE SP9
    Thanks jrhymeammo:
    I had looked at those things in reviews and wondered about them.:confused5: I thought they were outrageously overpriced.:crazy: Your solution is so cheap I've really got nothing to loose. I'm going to make some for myself. Thanks again!
  • 08-08-2009, 06:35 PM
    jrhymeammo
    No problem at all.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Thanks jrhymeammo:
    I had looked at those things in reviews and wondered about them.:confused5: I thought they were outrageously overpriced.:crazy: Your solution is so cheap I've really got nothing to loose. I'm going to make some for myself. Thanks again!

    As you said, you really have nothing to lose.
    I imagine you'll benefit more than me, due to your speaker design.
    Be sure to make them look better than mine, but that shouldn't be too hard.
    Also, the pipes I used wasn't PVC but ABS pipes. Different acoustics between the 2? Who knows.

    JRA
  • 08-10-2009, 02:05 PM
    JoeE SP9
    Is the length critical? Or, should I just let artistic freedom determine the length? I'm thinking some asymmetry is probably a good thing.
  • 08-10-2009, 02:23 PM
    What about for those of us who own maggies?
  • 08-10-2009, 03:41 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Is the length critical? Or, should I just let artistic freedom determine the length? I'm thinking some asymmetry is probably a good thing.

    If I had to guess Asymmetry is a good thing.

    I would say the length is important for very tall speakers such as yours, but the spacing between the pipes may be more critical.
    I just shoved in 5' pipes since the Roomlens came with 5' PVC pipes. If I had speakers you do, I would go with some 8' pipes and place them behind and outside of your giant speakers. From what I've gathered off the net, it seems pipes are not spaced equally to allow disperson of wider frequency. If you can cut out a precise 2 3/8" holes, don't glue in the pipes. If you glue them in you won't be able to make spacing adjustment.

    Are you going to make a few yourself'?
  • 08-10-2009, 03:47 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nightflier
    What about for those of us who own maggies?


    I hope you and others will try this out. I wish I had these when I had a pair of Maggies. I don't care for their tone, but I believe the imagining would've been much nicer.
    I imagine they would work nicely, especially behind your Magnepan in an angle.

    Perhaps E-Stat can chime in. I believe he used a have a real set.

    JRA
  • 08-10-2009, 06:48 PM
    JoeE SP9
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    If I had to guess Asymmetry is a good thing.

    I would say the length is important for very tall speakers such as yours, but the spacing between the pipes may be more critical.
    I just shoved in 5' pipes since the Roomlens came with 5' PVC pipes. If I had speakers you do, I would go with some 8' pipes and place them behind and outside of your giant speakers. From what I've gathered off the net, it seems pipes are not spaced equally to allow disperson of wider frequency. If you can cut out a precise 2 3/8" holes, don't glue in the pipes. If you glue them in you won't be able to make spacing adjustment.

    Are you going to make a few yourself'?

    What giant speakers?:confused5: They are less than 6 feet tall 2 1/2 inches thick and only 22 inches wide.:smilewinkgrin: Oh, you must mean E-Stat.:lol: He has some really big ones.:D

    Yes I am going to give them a try. I'm figuring heights from 6 1/2 to 7 1/2 feet not including the bases. Rather than use 3 separate blocks for each one. I'm going to use one long piece. I'll cut and drill several with different spacing so I can experiment.

    BTW: If anyone is interested, I picked up a couple of power cords. Report/review to come. No snap judgments here. It sometimes takes a while to hear cable differences. I expect the same thing with power cords. That is, if I hear a difference.
  • 08-11-2009, 01:59 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Perhaps E-Stat can chime in. I believe he used a have a real set.

    Hi JRA. Actually, I made mine using a recipe by Greg Weaver. The *real* Argent flavor tunes the various pipes to different frequencies by stuffing them with varying amounts of batting. I forgot the actual recommendations as I did this years ago and I can no longer find the original build link. Jon Risch' room treatment website has some suggestions.

    Frankly, I stopped using them years ago. I'm not saying they don't work but I do believe the results are system specific especially as to the type of speaker used. It seems they work best with conventional dynamic speakers with wide dispersion characteristics. Electrostats, on the other hand, are fundamentally directional and my experience was they just didn't help the image much. I would also qualify my comments by saying that I only used them in addition to the numerous bass traps I have which themselves provide some diffusion. Some Maggie users like them. Here is when I used them with the older Acoustats (and before I covered the traps):

    http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/room1004.jpg

    I did try them more recently in my current house with the Sound Labs, but the result was similar. The fake ficus trees and traps do the imaging trick and as importantly, smoothen the bass response:

    http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/room0109.jpg
    http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/traps.jpg
    rw
  • 08-11-2009, 04:02 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Hi JRA. Actually, I made mine using a recipe by Greg Weaver. The *real* Argent flavor tunes the various pipes to different frequencies by stuffing them with varying amounts of batting. I forgot the actual recommendations as I did this years ago and I can no longer find the original build link. Jon Risch' room treatment website has some suggestions.

    Frankly, I stopped using them years ago. I'm not saying they don't work but I do believe the results are system specific especially as to the type of speaker used. It seems they work best with conventional dynamic speakers with wide dispersion characteristics. Electrostats, on the other hand, are fundamentally directional and my experience was they just didn't help the image much. I would also qualify my comments by saying that I only used them in addition to the numerous bass traps I have which themselves provide some diffusion. Some Maggie users like them. Here is when I used them with the older Acoustats (and before I covered the traps):



    I did try them more recently in my current house with the Sound Labs, but the result was similar. The fake ficus trees and traps do the imaging trick and as importantly, smoothen the bass response:


    rw

    Thanks for your insight E-Stat.
    Knowing your persistence, I assume you tried every positions imaginable.

    Couple of questions.

    Was that the best sounding position/angle in your environment?
    Did you use 1.5" pipes instead of 2", or are 2+2s just enormous?

    JRA
  • 08-11-2009, 04:06 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Also, I have question about your curent room. Did you deliberately alter the top edge of your front and rear walls? (Turning 90 degree corners into two 135 degree corners).

    You truly have a great looking room. I would love to hear your system one day.

    JRA
  • 08-11-2009, 05:57 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Was that the best sounding position/angle in your environment?

    I tried a number of combinations, but was largely guided by the Argent guidelines

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Did you use 1.5" pipes instead of 2", or are 2+2s just enormous?

    Well, both. :) I used 2" pipes and the 2+2s are 7'10" tall !

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Also, I have question about your curent room. Did you deliberately alter the top edge of your front and rear walls? (Turning 90 degree corners into two 135 degree corners).

    Just dumb luck. The house was built in the 70s and I haven't made any changes. That implies good news and bad news. A doctor had it custom built and it is exceptionally well made. I commissioned an electrician to run three clean power lines to the listening room (actually a large upstairs bedroom). After he and his son tried for an hour, he gave me the bad news. The walls used fire stops which prevented him from being able to drop lines down from the attic. No dice. He did, however, tell me that they just don't build houses like mine anymore. All of the roof "A" frames are trussed. One of these days, I'll try getting a second opinion because my last house had two dedicated lines for the system. My 10 amp (each) amps are getting starved by running off one 15 amp line.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    You truly have a great looking room. I would love to hear your system one day.

    Thank you. You have an open invitation. The results are not *impressive* sounding, just very transparent.

    rw
  • 08-12-2009, 04:49 AM
    Auricauricle
    1 Attachment(s)
    The Great Mystery is Now Revealed!
    I expect E will be listening happily for a long, long time!
  • 08-12-2009, 05:09 AM
    Luvin Da Blues
    These look very doable and I'm sure they could result in a sonic improvement but I have a couple of quick questions.

    1) Do you fill these with a fiber fill or sand etc?

    2) If not, are they tuned (by length) to a specific frequency? I can't help but think of the Blue
    Man Group and the natural harmonic frequency of a empty PVC (ABS) pipe.
  • 08-12-2009, 09:33 AM
    Hey, how did Auric get a pic of my remodeled bedroom?
  • 08-12-2009, 05:12 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Hey LDB,

    1. I havent filled them with poly-stuffing. I imagine stuffing it may help reduce resonance from tubes, but not sound reflecting off of tubes. Some people might claim to hear great difference in stuffing material, but I doubt I would hear actual difference.
    Capping the ends should have marginal effects than anything, so I might do that for a sake of "hi-fidelity".... but not my concern at this moment.


    2. I'm have no knowledge of how they are tuned, but if they are somehow tuned, wouldn't the length be more influential than anything else? Again, I'm referring to sound coming out of hollow tubes, instead of "Off" of tubes. If so, ends cannot be plugged shut like they are designed.
    Any tuning I can think of may come from the distance between pipes. Wider the space, lower frequency the device will diffuse.


    We have great knowledge on gear but know very little of the most influential apparatus.
  • 08-12-2009, 05:17 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by E-Stat
    I tried a number of combinations, but was largely guided by the Argent guidelines


    Well, both. :) I used 2" pipes and the 2+2s are 7'10" tall !


    Just dumb luck. The house was built in the 70s and I haven't made any changes. That implies good news and bad news. A doctor had it custom built and it is exceptionally well made. I commissioned an electrician to run three clean power lines to the listening room (actually a large upstairs bedroom). After he and his son tried for an hour, he gave me the bad news. The walls used fire stops which prevented him from being able to drop lines down from the attic. No dice. He did, however, tell me that they just don't build houses like mine anymore. All of the roof "A" frames are trussed. One of these days, I'll try getting a second opinion because my last house had two dedicated lines for the system. My 10 amp (each) amps are getting starved by running off one 15 amp line.


    Thank you. You have an open invitation. The results are not *impressive* sounding, just very transparent.

    rw

    Cool.
    I bet I'll find the system lacking due to colorless sound.
    I go to Jackson, TN for business about once every 4 months, so I may just "swing by" one day.

    JRA
  • 08-12-2009, 05:30 PM
    Luvin Da Blues
    Certainly a cool and affordable project. As soon as I get some time and inclination I have to make a set. Whats ya think off drilling overlapping holes on a long board (as someone previously mentioned) to fine tune the dispersion freqs or is this necessary? I 'spose you could accomplish this by just turning them relative to the speakers?
  • 08-13-2009, 01:53 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    These look very doable and I'm sure they could result in a sonic improvement but I have a couple of quick questions.

    1) Do you fill these with a fiber fill or sand etc?

    2) If not, are they tuned (by length) to a specific frequency? I can't help but think of the Blue
    Man Group and the natural harmonic frequency of a empty PVC (ABS) pipe.

    Here are some guidelines found on Jon Risch' website. He and I used poly batting.

    rw
  • 08-13-2009, 01:55 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Auricauricle
    I expect E will be listening happily for a long, long time!

    LOL! I do love my monoliths. :)

    rw
  • 08-13-2009, 02:34 PM
    Luvin Da Blues
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Here are some guidelines found on Jon Risch' website. He and I used poly batting.

    rw

    That's the type of info I was looking for. Thanks E-S