Best DIY you've heard

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  • 04-03-2006, 02:15 PM
    hmmmm
    Best DIY you've heard
    I think this probably has come up several times...But, what is the best sounding DIY you've heard?
    Part 2: If you had $500.00 to spend in parts, not including wood or cabinent price, what would you build?
    If you're slow...I'm getting some ideas for a DIY project for stereo listening:)
    Oh, I also understand everyone has different tastes in sound etc...but it's hard to go out and sample DIY speakers.
    Thanks!
  • 04-03-2006, 04:08 PM
    kexodusc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hmmmm
    I think this probably has come up several times...But, what is the best sounding DIY you've heard?
    Part 2: If you had $500.00 to spend in parts, not including wood or cabinent price, what would you build?
    If you're slow...I'm getting some ideas for a DIY project for stereo listening:)
    Oh, I also understand everyone has different tastes in sound etc...but it's hard to go out and sample DIY speakers.
    Thanks!

    If you're just looking for a quick design to buy and make, rather than design from scratch (which can be frustrating - trust me) then there's lots of options.

    I like Zaph's Seas designs:
    http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html

    This is the one I heard, but the there's one with a smaller woofer there as well. I don't think this will run you anywhere near $500, though, probably closer to $300.. You might try Dr. K's MTM's using the Dayton Reference drivers as well..they can be found on the PE showcase. There's a version with a different crossover available as well, I think it's called the Natalie P(ortman) for some reason.

    The Reference drivers are all the rage these days, can't go wrong there.

    Either of these are good steps up on the Peerless drivers in your current speakers, I think you'd be pleased.

    You could also try Wayne J's "Eros" design, also availabe at the Project Showcase. I haven't heard it myself, but I'm told it's still the benchmark in the $500 range for speakers. Wayne J certainly knows his stuff. I think there's a crossover updated available you might have to inquire about though.
  • 04-04-2006, 07:02 AM
    Yury
    hi!
    I have almost the same feeling ... I'll make TQWP thus.
  • 04-04-2006, 11:25 AM
    hmmmm
    thanks
    Thanks Kexo! I had a feeling you would be the first to respond! I'm hoping to be able to do another project by the end of summer if all goes well with the health. I was considering trying something in the Speaker Builder book but I've never talked to anyone who has made any of them and a couple of them get fairly expensive. I'll let you know what I decide.
  • 04-04-2006, 03:43 PM
    JeffKnob
    The Exodus Audio kits look nice.

    http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~aco...complete_kits/

    Or these kits at Ascendant Audio

    http://www.ascendantaudio.com/arbiter_page.html

    I have been dreaming of doing the LCR on the first page but I don't have the $$$ to do five of them.
  • 04-04-2006, 04:12 PM
    jocko_nc
    I cannot say which sound best, but I can add that I asked the same question a while back on the PE forums. I had some nice "standard" .50 ft^3 cabinets that needed a new life. I was steered into the Seas 27TDFC and a Peerless HDS series mid-bass. I used a 6.5 inch Peerless because that was the size of the hole I had, one could go with the smaller model. The Seas goes pretty low, the HDS goes pretty high. Add a sub (or two) to fill in the lows, which will roll off at around 80 Hz. Once I got the crossover right (Thanks, Roman B.) they are quite nice. Both are great drivers. Those parts will run you $240.00 or so for a pair. Even at that price, you will have top quality parts. For $500.00 you could really go nuts.

    Seas has kits as well. Check out their website.

    I think Kexo is a big fan of the 27TDFC

    jocko
  • 04-05-2006, 05:34 AM
    kexodusc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jocko_nc
    .

    Seas has kits as well. Check out their website.

    I think Kexo is a big fan of the 27TDFC

    jocko

    It is one of the best tweeters I've heard under $90 (which isn't many I'll admit, but definitely over a dozen), close in detail and clarity to the D2905 Scan-Speak at $91 I have in my towers, and it's only 1/3 the price. Hard to argue with that.
    I have 2 sitting beside some North Creek D25 that I just can't decide what to do with...

    Can't decide what to do with the D25's either...anyone have any suggestions (other than the PeeCreek?). It's a good tweeter, better than the Dayton Silkie IMO.
  • 04-05-2006, 07:14 AM
    Swerd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hmmmm
    If you had $500.00 to spend in parts, not including wood or cabinent price, what would you build?

    My personal favorite is the CAOW1 design by Dennis Murphy http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=main.html. It costs about $400 in parts. It uses a Seas coated paper 5" woofer and the best tweeter I've heard, a " Hiquphon OW1. I built mine, last November and I listen to them most every day. It is smooth from 50 Hz to 20 kHz and creates just amazing images. I use them in a stereo system in a large bedroom.

    Paper woofers do produce a different sound than the aluminum ones in Zaph's design or the Dr. K's. You should try to listen to aluminum speakers before you buy. Some people love them and others get irritated by them over time. That being said, the Zaph Audio model that kex recommended is one of the best aluminum designs I've heard.

    Dennis Murphy also has 3 other less expensive 2-way designs that are similarly voiced as the CAOW1. The MBOW1 is about $320, and the MB20 and MB27 are each about $175 in parts.

    Another design I think is very interesting is Roman Bednarek's Asterion http://www.rjbaudio.com/Asterion/asterion.html. I haven't heard it, but it uses the same tweeter as the CAOW1, and I've heard the Vifa XT18 wood pulp woofer in another 2-way that images extremely well. As a guess, I'd say the Asterion might be similar to the CAOW1 with somewhat deeper bass because of the larger woofer.
  • 04-05-2006, 10:55 AM
    kexodusc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Swerd
    My personal favorite is the CAOW1 design by Dennis Murphy http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=main.html. It costs about $400 in parts. It uses a Seas coated paper 5" woofer and the best tweeter I've heard, a " Hiquphon OW1. I built mine, last November and I listen to them most every day. It is smooth from 50 Hz to 20 kHz and creates just amazing images. I use them in a stereo system in a large bedroom.

    Oh yeah, another good one!!!

    Quote:

    Paper woofers do produce a different sound than the aluminum ones in Zaph's design or the Dr. K's. You should try to listen to aluminum speakers before you buy. Some people love them and others get irritated by them over time
    .

    Good advice...I like them as much as any other material if the break-up is taken care of properly (it often isn't) but I know some people who you'd swear get sick to their stomach listening to aluminum.

    Quote:

    I haven't heard it, but it uses the same tweeter as the CAOW1, and I've heard the Vifa XT18 wood pulp woofer in another 2-way that images extremely well.
    I use the XT18 in my towers with that Scan-Speak tweeter...the XT18 is an awesome woofer with really excellent sounding bass. It's not the deepest bass, but it sure sounds a lot better than most other 6-8" woofers I've heard. The midrange is quite a step up over the $30-$60 dollar 6.5" to 8" woofers I've heard. Some woofers I find just get more expensive and don't sound much better unless really driven hard. The XT is worth every penny. I like the Scan-speak tweeter, but if I could do it over again, I think I would have picked something a bit cheaper, I'm paying more for the low Fs in the 2905. Oh well. I might throw something else in there someday.
  • 04-05-2006, 11:49 AM
    Feanor
    Haven't heard it yet, but ...
    I think it will be the best -- maybe!!! :cornut:

    So far I've built only one speaker: a centre channel that turned out pretty well ... http://gallery.audioreview.com/showp...sort=1&cat=500

    But I have in mind to build a pair of 2-way monitors that will rule; (let me dream). They will employ DSP to provide:
    • Active crossover
    • Driver level matching
    • Baffle shelf compensation, and
    • Equaliztion.
    The cabinet will be a closed design with a fairly low Qtc, (say .65); the DSP will level the response down close to the free air resonance (Fs) of the woofer.

    Haven't decide on the drivers yet; either:
    1. Accuton C23-6 tweeter + Accuton C92-6 woofer, or
    2. Morel MDT33 tweeter + Morel MW166 woofer.
    (The Morels are a bit cheaper.) Box size will depend on the woofer choice, but either of the above a suitable for closed box usage. Crossover will be quite low, 1600 - 1800 Hz, depending on driver, 24 or 48 dB/octave.

    DSP will mostly likely come from a Behringer DCX2496 ... http://www.behringer.com/DCX2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG

    :cool:
  • 04-05-2006, 11:55 AM
    Swerd
    Hey kexodusc

    So you made the XT18 woofer in a tower with a ScanSpeak D2905 tweet? Can you post the crossover and cabinet dimensions? I'd be interested.

    The speaker I've heard had the XT18 in a ported tower with a Morel MDT-30 tweeter. It was built by a guy named Peter Smith (Pjay on Madisound). I liked it a lot.

    http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/pjay99s...eakerhome.html

    (on the left side, click on Projects, and then click on P10 - Moxy).
  • 04-05-2006, 04:05 PM
    hmmmm
    "You could also try Wayne J's "Eros" design, also availabe at the Project Showcase. I haven't heard it myself, but I'm told it's still the benchmark in the $500 range for speakers. Wayne J certainly knows his stuff. I think there's a crossover updated available you might have to inquire about though."
    This looks like a nice project. I might give this one a try.
  • 04-05-2006, 04:36 PM
    kexodusc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Swerd
    Hey kexodusc

    So you made the XT18 woofer in a tower with a ScanSpeak D2905 tweet? Can you post the crossover and cabinet dimensions? I'd be interested.

    The speaker I've heard had the XT18 in a ported tower with a Morel MDT-30 tweeter. It was built by a guy named Peter Smith (Pjay on Madisound). I liked it a lot.

    http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/pjay99s...eakerhome.html

    (on the left side, click on Projects, and then click on P10 - Moxy).

    Ha ha, no, I built the cabinet in my garage, and helped assemble them, that's it. When I was still living in Maine, the bass player in my band was building and selling speakers out of his family's music store, mostly to aspiring musicians, I suspect. He designed them and got me into DIY in the first place...made the xo for me, picked the drivers, etc...I didn't really know anything, I just paid for the parts...good deal...picture a budding newbie buying his first pair of Bose speakers...Glad I took that risk though.

    This was my first "kit" project technically. It's covered in carpet fabric to match some of my other studio gear....UGLY!!! Actually, I believe the fabric helps the sound a bit!!! I've done several others projects since. I've only made 2 crossovers myself with good help. I have more luck modifying existing designs. Just don't have as much time at home as I'd like :nonod:

    Sorry, I can't really post the xo schematic without permission. I can say Roman B's crossover actually looks like a more simple use of the woofer, IMO. Fewer elements, that's always nice.
  • 04-06-2006, 06:43 AM
    Swerd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hmmmm
    The Eros looks like a nice project. I might give this one a try.

    You may have noticed by now that Wayne J's web site is off line. He seems to be out of the DIY business and people say he no longer answers email questions. Its too bad because he writes very well and provides complete details. There may be people at the Madisound or PE boards who have saved some of his old files.

    There is a great tool, the "Wayback Machine", that I just learned about that lets you access old web sites http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

    Here is an archived version of Wayne J's "home page" http://web.archive.org/web/200503280...es/default.htm

    There are plans for the Eros and an updated crossover for the Eros Mk II. Inside one of those are detailed drawings for the Eros cabinets.

    Several other articles of his are very good if this is your first DIY project. I learned a lot from them.
    • Crossover construction
    • Veneer trimming
    • Finding the optimum crossover frequency
    • Port tube installation guide
    You might want to save them as files on your computer, because I doubt if this site will ever become active again. Good luck with your project.
  • 04-09-2006, 03:53 PM
    hmmmm
    website
    I just saw the speakerbuilder.net is back up and running. What a great site!
    You're right...he didn't answer my e-mail either.
    I'm curious to know if the Yammie RX-V1400 would drive them alright. I don't want to have to replace that also.
    Thanks
  • 04-09-2006, 03:58 PM
    kexodusc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hmmmm
    I just saw the speakerbuilder.net is back up and running. What a great site!
    You're right...he didn't answer my e-mail either.
    I'm curious to know if the Yammie RX-V1400 would drive them alright. I don't want to have to replace that also.
    Thanks

    If you build the "amp friendly" version with the revised xo there'll be no problem. Truth be told, I doubt either version would pose any threat to that receiver... I drove 4 ohm MTM's for a few weeks with mine before...err..."upgraded"...

    Unless you drive them to incredible volumes, it'll be fine...if you're really nervous, select the "4 ohm" setting on the receiver and Yamaha's protection circuitry should limit its output anyway.
  • 04-11-2006, 06:56 AM
    hmmmm
    cabinents cut but...
    Well, I decided to go with the Eros MK11 and have the cabinents cut however...
    I keep finding threads saying that the tweeter is "outdated," too bright and outperformed by lower cost tweeters. I haven't cut the holes yet or bought the parts. Now I'm being indecisive!
    Any thoughts?

    Oh, anyone know what a tweeter pod is?
  • 04-11-2006, 08:01 AM
    kexodusc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hmmmm
    Well, I decided to go with the Eros MK11 and have the cabinents cut however...
    I keep finding threads saying that the tweeter is "outdated," too bright and outperformed by lower cost tweeters. I haven't cut the holes yet or bought the parts. Now I'm being indecisive!
    Any thoughts?

    Oh, anyone know what a tweeter pod is?

    Relax. The Scan-Speak is definitely not the best value in tweeters. But I dare anyone to tell me definitevely what is.

    Truth is, it sounds very, very good. Much better than a lot of tweeters I've heard. It's quality is top notch, each unit performs very similarly, and when it's outperformed by other tweeters costing less money, we're taking by a few % points here, not night and day sounds.
    In fact, I'm guessing many people would still prefer the 2905 to a lot of other offerings. It's not a bad tweeter, even if there are cheaper, newer models.

    One of the nice things about it is it's quality...top notch, and it needs very few components to be used in a crossover - that saves money right there.

    Don't think of it in terms of the cost of the tweeter, but instead, the cost of the design. That design has been built by many, and survived many a critical ear in the past 4 or 5 years. Value wise, it's still up there with many other offerings and will sound great!!!

    I still think it's an excellent design to build.

    If you still have a bit of indecision, the cabinets could be salvaged and an MTM with some Dayton Reference drivers or Seas aluminum drivers could probably fit...It migth even save $100 -$150 in parts. Though I doubt it will sound better, maybe as good though...maybe not. I have absolutely no doubt you'll be happy with the EROS MKII. It still holds it's own as a good design today.
  • 04-11-2006, 12:20 PM
    hmmmm
    Thanks
    Whew,
    I appreciate the response. It must be that time of the month:) I'm second guessing everything and I'm quite emotional. JK