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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
Sure, but my cat always comes around when tunes are spinning especially when its analogue (maybe just my imagination), that's my story and I'm stickin to it. Is the cat an audiophile also??? hmmmm
I definitely think the cats that like music are 'cool cats'. The phenomena is not just with cats though. I used to have a giant Irish Wolfhound, who when he wasn't chasing something, would love to sit and listen to music with me. strange..:confused5:
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A couple of questions;
One: Is being an audiophile a hobby? I think so, after all it's hardly a requirement to have good sound or even to have a sound system at all. Most of us that do, do it because originally we liked music and then discovered that there is far more than one way to skin that cat.
Two: If you happen to be financially well off and you rush out and spend $150,000 for the best gear are you an audiophile.? In my opinion, no. Some effort besides simply spending money is needed to be an audiophile. Most car nuts would love to own a Ferrari, conversely buying a Ferrari doesn't automatically make you a car nut (Automophile:) :)?).
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Just ramblings of a newbie.
I always thought "Audiophile" was on the other end of the scale that "tone deaf" starts.
Who knew it was so complicated!!!???
Which brings up food for thought: If two guys are sat in a room and listen first to a $4,000 system and then to a $20,000 system, which is the Audiophile? Is it A) the guy who can tell the difference in sound or B) the guy who can afford the $20,000 system?
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Could be neither, could be both, it would be the one who appreciated the difference. Appreciation would be the one who could afford it would buy it and the other would recognize the quality and get as close as he could afford to.
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MR. P. So if a person has perfect pitch, can hear all the subtle differences in music including differences in speaker cables on a $20,000 system, appreciates any chance they have to hear great sound but doesn't have the money to buy high end equipment, they are not an audiophile?
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That is not what I said at all, you should read the post again. One may be able to hear the difference and afford it, or not, and not care. Another may hear the difference, afford it or not, and appreciate the difference. If you hear the difference and appreciate it enough you will buy it if you can afford it. If you appreciate the difference and can't afford $20k, you will strive to put the best system you can together and enjoy it. Take opportunities to improve where and when you can. The root or drive behind any audiophile is the passion for the equipment and music.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
If you appreciate the difference and can't afford $20k, you will strive to put the best system you can together and enjoy it. Take opportunities to improve where and when you can. The root or drive behind any audiophile is the passion for the equipment and music.
You have me nailed done Mr.P, as well as most around here I figure. :thumbsup:
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The name of the game
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
That is not what I said at all, you should read the post again. One may be able to hear the difference and afford it, or not, and not care. Another may hear the difference, afford it or not, and appreciate the difference. If you hear the difference and appreciate it enough you will buy it if you can afford it. If you appreciate the difference and can't afford $20k, you will strive to put the best system you can together and enjoy it. Take opportunities to improve where and when you can. The root or drive behind any audiophile is the passion for the equipment and music.
The name of the game for a down-at-the-heel audiophile hobbiest such as myself is value -- the most bang for the least buck. I belief I've got myself a very high value system indeed: check the reference below.
But I can definitely appreciate the higher price equipment that others have and would spend more if I could. I envy these folks a little but not obsessively. I can take satisfaction knowing the my modest system is very close to many costing 3x-4x as much or even more. And beyond that, I know I'm often appreciating the music even more than they do.
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Just a thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
Could be neither, could be both, it would be the one who appreciated the difference. Appreciation would be the one who could afford it would buy it and the other would recognize the quality and get as close as he could afford to.
So, I'm cleaning the bathroom and had my head stuck in the toilet, thinking about this post (coincidence?? naw, probably not :prrr: ). Anywho, I was thinking who's opinion I would value more? Wannabes like me and a lotta people around here are fairly knowledgeable but, I admit I have never heard a lot of High End equipment mentioned around here. We have modest systems but do very much appreciate high end stuff.
So, who's opionion is more valuable the guy who reads, hears and understands about the "good stuff" or someone who actually owns some. Even tho the latter may not appreciate it as much, they do have real world experience with it.
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I have seen and talked to people who own a Corvette Z06 with a manual transmission just for bragging writes and they think they know everything because they own one and have read everything about it. Then they kill the motor on take off twice and make excuses. They can't drive the darned thing any better than my grandma could and she doesn't have a license. You wouldn't want their opinion and I try to get away when they start talking.
Having more money does not necessarily make your opinion more valuable.
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Still, wouldn't it carry more weight than someone that has NEVER drove one?
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Luvindablues, first thanks, in your question the first guy who reads about the equipment at least has heard higher end equipment. In some instances that person may have more knowledge because he was exposed to more. If the owner of the high end gear has only one system his knowledge may be limited. There are too many variables that could be to make a definite decision one way or the other.
IBS has a point, some one who is rich could go in and buy a high end system based on sales rep recommendations and really not have a handle on what he has or any differences there of. One big clue are those who have gear and don't know how to hook it up. It's funny sometimes I'll talk to some one about their system, just seeing what they have, I'll ask them the brand or if they use a digital connection and you can just see my sentences flying right over their head.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
Luvindablues, first thanks, in your question the first guy who reads about the equipment at least has heard higher end equipment. In some instances that person may have more knowledge because he was exposed to more. If the owner of the high end gear has only one system his knowledge may be limited. There are too many variables that could be to make a definite decision one way or the other.
IBS has a point, some one who is rich could go in and buy a high end system based on sales rep recommendations and really not have a handle on what he has or any differences there of. One big clue are those who have gear and don't know how to hook it up. It's funny sometimes I'll talk to some one about their system, just seeing what they have, I'll ask them the brand or if they use a digital connection and you can just see my sentences flying right over their head.
I couldn't agree with you and IBS more...just opening that side up for debate.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
The name of the game for a down-at-the-heel audiophile hobbiest such as myself is value -- the most bang for the least buck. .
That says it all in a nutshell. I always preferred the term audio "enthusiast" due to the many nasty connotations pertaining to the term "audiophile," and my system consists of relatively not-too-expensive components, each and every one of which has been reviewed enthusiastically, and praised for the performance it offers at the respective price points.
My Dahlquist DQ-10's are all but legendary, and are highly respected by most in this field. The Regnar-rebuilt woofers helped tremendously, and were a vast improvement over the botch refoam job by Simply Speakers in Florida. The Definitive Technology SP-15F, at $600 (discounted from the $1,000 "List" price) is a far better sub than the Dahlquist DQ-1W, and blends in perfectly with the 10's.
My Parasound PLD-1100 "Line Drive" preamp is a John Curl design, and my Adcom GFA-5800 is a highly reviewed amp designed by Nelson Pass - two very respected names in this industry.
My Adcom GCD-600 CD Player and GDA-600 D/A converter do a splendid job of playing CD's and making them sound musical, much in the same fashion as far costlier CDP/D/A Converter combos.
While the total cost of my system exceeds $10K, that's a far cry from the price of one ClearAudio turntable!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
<snip>While the total cost of my system exceeds $10K, that's a far cry from the price of one ClearAudio turntable!
You weren't clear if that was the new or used cost, not that it matters. Many would feel that's an excessive amount to invest in music reproduction. I don't agree, my system costs more than that, but I acquired the pieces (used) over a long time interval.
The thing that makes you an audiophile has nothing to do with the price of the equipment, it has to do with you knowing about Dahlquist, John Curl and Nelson Pass. It's this effort to learn and try to acquire, copy or build equipment at that performance level that's at the core of my definition of an audiophile. Happy listening.
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Guilty as charged
Thanks to all, especially MR P. I have a new understanding of what an audiophile is, have never considered myself one and didn't want to be because of the snob factor!! I realise I can learn alot from you guys and that I am an audiophile, in your definition. My wife just says I have too many "BLACK BOXES" all over the house. Just see my list and you will see I am crazed just like you all are. Maybe I haven't spent as much on as high end stuff as you guys, but....... I'm hooked. I would love to hear comments on what I have and suggestions for improvement. (GOD, I REALLY AM THAT "A" WORD!!!!) (I wasn't referring to the word my wife calls me.) Please, all of you, look at my comments in "Do you really get what you pay for" in the cables forum on the DB-25 cable and give me feedback on that.
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ISB your system looks balanced to me. I'm not familiar with the Overture series. Is Integra and Integra Research the same? I can't remember the name but there used to be a high end shop some where in KC that handled Wilson and Mark Levinson, have you ever been there?
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MR P Integra is high line Onkyo and Integra Research is their Audiophile line made in conjunction with Apogee, THX & Balanced Audio Technology. I had wondered, looking at all the names you mention, if you had ever heard of it. If you are interested: http://www.integraresearch.com/
Well, that also answers my next question: how does my equipment compare to what you guys are referring to? I guess if you have never heard of it that would be hard to answer.
No I haven't looked at Wilson or Mark Levinson because I know I can't afford it. I bought all of my equipment used. The Integra Research was something I didn't think I could afford but found a deal. The Onkyo Integra M-588F, from what I understand sold for $2400 back in the 80's and it is ssssooooo sweet. It became my main amp over the M-504 once I heard it. I am wondering if you are familiar with either of these?
To quote you: If you appreciate the difference and can't afford $20k, you will strive to put the best system you can together and enjoy it. Take opportunities to improve where and when you can. The root or drive behind any audiophile is the passion for the equipment and music. I started with H/K and found they have reliability problems, switched to Onkyo and just worked my way up to their best.
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IBSTORMING, IMHO you are an audiophile.
The proof is in asking the question: "What can I do to make my system better?"
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I have heard of Onkyo and Integra but not the Research. Onkyo makes a good receiver. Their amp sections are noticeably better than most other mass market brands. Although I've heard of Integra I've never heard any. I know they must be good amps though, a guy ran some Infinity Kappa 9's with Integra. Kappa 9's were notorious for the impedance dropping crazy low and sending many brands of amps to the service bench. Levinson is out of my price as well but I go check out that type of gear that's how you'd know how your system stacks up. My Conrad Johnson is tube gear and would have a different presentation than integra. Based on Integra's rep I'm sure you get a very good bass response with good control and punch.
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MR P - The Integra Research line I have heard is snubbed by "TRUE AUDIOPHILES" probably because it is not really expensive. The RDV-1 THX Ultra2 DVD player listed for $3000 and with the Apogee clock it is probably the best CD player I have ever heard, Way better than my Integra dedicated CD player in A-B testing. The $4000 RDC-1MKII is rated a 5 on audioreview with people calling themselves audiophiles surprised at its quality for the money. The two are hooked together for analog transfer with a DB-25 computer cable that is better sounding than any RCA cables that I have ever tried and cost me $6. All I know is everything got much more transparent, bass is full, deep and tight. Dianna Krall on DVD-A sounds like she is standing in front of me, I can hear her lips smack as she opens her mouth to sing. Sends chills. My whole CD collection has changed in sound, some of it I am even disappointed in, but I realise that it now sounds like it was recorded, not muffled & boomy like I had heard it. With movies YOU ARE THERE!!! Any body else heard this equipment? Because, of course, it I can make it sound BETTER...........
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slow to respond to MR P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
ISB your system looks balanced to me. I'm not familiar with the Overture series.
Back in the 90's the Prelude PFR was their best, replaced with the AUDIOPHILE "A" Quality Prelude MTS series around 2000. The Overture series was just below their Prelude series back in the 90's.
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Well guys it seems that there is some genuine interest in this thread....some good discussion with many interesting views posted.
I note and agree about the word "audiophile" carrying some snobbish baggage with it, however, I have never shyed away from calling myself an audiophile because I do so for the right reasons.
The question of money seems to arise quite often. My own views on this are that you don't need a pile of cash to have a good system but you will inevitably need more as you go along with swapping in and out equipment and leads in an effort to improve. But where do you stop??
In order to improve your system you need a reference point. You maybe heard a great system and then began the trail of trying to improve your own in order to match it. This is the beginning of you becoming an audiophile.
The other avenue is the dangerous one.......where a Manufacturer directly, or through one of their sponsored Hi-Fi magazines tries to convince you that your system is a bollocks and you need their piece of equipment to make it better.
In my opinion if you are happy with your own system then don't give a moment's thought to glossy advertising. The flip side is that, if for example, you had occassion to hear a good quality system, (not necessarily an expensive one), and you feel you want to improve your own then by all means begin the steady journey of improving. I attach a WARNING here:---:devil: ---you may well become a dreaded 'audiophile' for your interest could easily become a passion - then an obsession!!! If your interest or hobby costs you more than money then you've gone over the edge:17:
Also, in my opinion:
1. the guy with loads of money who just goes out and buys a tip-top hifi system just because he can, is not necessarily an audiophile. If he doesn't know what he has purchased where is his reference point? He will soon tire of it like his other toys.
2. the guy with a modest system who listens to a lot of music, buys a lot of discs (or whatever medium) and never had a desire to improve or learn is not an audiophile.
3. the guy with an MP3 player who can't afford anything else at the moment but has a burning desire to experience what his mates have and is becoming more knowledgable as he goes along with his interest. He can't afford to upgrade yet but he has heard what music sounds like through some good systems and will get one some day....this guy has his reference point and many of the other ingredients common to an audiophile and so I would class him as an audiophile.
4. the guy who has learnt to make a single valve amplifier and starts wiring up his alarm clock to it.....wants to experiment constantly with electronics to improve sound around the house ------well chances are he could very well be or become an audiophile.
5. the guy who writes for a hifi magazine and gets to take all the new toys home to practice on but has lost the passion........................................... ........I'll leave that one open for debate :5:
New Slippers On
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Computer Audiophilia
I hope this forum might provide a good place to make my first post.
I probably don't qualify as an obsessive audiophile. Nevertheless, music has played a significant role in my personal, as well as professional life as a radio brodcaster of 30+ years.
My forte in the business is weighted toward what is known as "air talent" rather than technical accumen (which on a sliding scale of ten, I barely move the peg).
I don't understand much about computer sound capability, but am purchasing a computer which features "high definition audio"---hp pavilion elite m9150f.
I have purchased a set of Audioengine A5 speakers. I am also interested in getting some good quality mainstream headphones, but am wondering if the Sennheiser HD 650's would be an overreach for this system (even with headphone amp, Cardas cable, etc.) Any input?
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If you are going to listen to Lossless the fabulous HD650's might be worth the investment. If you are going to store and listen to mp3 or some other compressed file save your money and just get something cheap like a Grado SR60 or entry Senn.
Let us know how you like the A5's. I was thinking about getting a pair of those for my daughter's computer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond
<snip>
I don't understand much about computer sound capability, but am purchasing a computer which features "high definition audio"---hp pavilion elite m9150f.
I have purchased a set of Audioengine A5 speakers. I am also interested in getting some good quality mainstream headphones, but am wondering if the Sennheiser HD 650's would be an overreach for this system (even with headphone amp, Cardas cable, etc.) Any input?
Any computer is a hellish environment for those tiny parts of an audio signal that define that elusive thing known a high fidelity. The sheer volume of high speed digital signals gets into nearly everything, since digital signals are intrinsically highly noise tolerant, most manufacturers do little to prevent their presence all over the internal wires, power supplies and inside cabinet radiation.
A number of companies make outboard DAC/headphone drivers optimized to interface a computer. If you want good sound consider one of these, compared to most audiophile equipment these are quite reasonable on the used market. Additionally they will allow you to drive an external conventional power amplifier and speakers should you ever wish to do so..
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Hermanv said, and I quote (never have figured out how to do that), "everyone enjoys a live event to a reproduction". To which I would add that I enjoy a reproduction to a live event! That would be in my room. of course, and utter transparency to the event as best as I can figure out. I study and buy equipment for that reason. That makes me an audiophile, I think, altho I am self conscious about using any word with "phile" in it as regards myself as I expect others may be, too. We don't love the sound of birds chirping or car crashes, we love music and it's creation. Equipment is the means to the most intimate experience of it we can achieve. The word audiophile to me means one who is pursuant of, well, something like this. Hiccup!
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It's about the music. Just a few clean watts ("the first watt is the most important") with a pair of single, full range drivers, (no xovrs required) and a good smooth source is all I need. It's all subjective. We all hear what? Some of "best" and most memorable music I can remember was sitting with my Grandmother and a cup of tea listening to "Cruising Down The River" on a old tube phonograph....those were good times...kunk
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Have any of you considered the fact that to be able to have a conversation in your music environment, turned up loud, is a good indication that you have got it right?
Slippers On
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slippers On
Have any of you considered the fact that to be able to have a conversation in your music environment, turned up loud, is a good indication that you have got it right?
Slippers On
I know exactly what you mean!
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I know what you mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slippers On
Have any of you considered the fact that to be able to have a conversation in your music environment, turned up loud, is a good indication that you have got it right?
Slippers On
HUH? WHAT DID YOU SAY? I CAN"T HEAR YOU. LET ME TURN THE STEREO DOWN.
I think that probably depends on how much POWER you have cranking. LOL
I find, as I keep upgrading my equipment, I don't HAVE to turn it up to enjoy it, the detail comes through at lower volumes and it is more enjoyable.
Having said that, I just realized I had BACH's Organ music cranking in the basement in DVD-Audio 5.1 and my wife asked me to turn it down! (SIGH) That's where the above happened !
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Apparent loudness changes in very subtle ways with better sound quality. With better equipment you can hear more details at the same volume settings, but it doesn't sound as loud because the ear takes many volume cues from distortion.
I had a relative over, so of course I wanted to show off my system, She said "I don't like it loud, it hurts my ears". I played at my normal listening level and she said that was fine. If fact it was probably quite a bit louder than they play their mass market system at home. Since the "uglies" were gone it didn't seem loud to her.
Radio Shack sells a cheap level meter, it's hardly the last word in scientific (or accurate) equipment, but it provides a handy reference not confused by subjective opinion.
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