AR.com DIY Kit..But what sub?

[Brantano]

I plan on making a 2.1 system to replace my crappy 4.0 system. Using the Ar.com DIY kit with premade crossovers i am wondering which would be better for a subwoofer. I have two options i want to go with, either the 12" shiva or the 15" tempest, both by adire audio. I think i am going to go with the shiva because of my room size (11'x12') but am still not sure. Whats really confusing me is should i go with a sealed or a ported box. It will mostly be used for music (Rock, heavy metal, death metal, Drum & Bass, and Techno.) but will also be used for movies (about 10%). So what do you guys think i should do? 12" vs 15", sealed or ported?

I really want that 'Punch in the chest' feeling when i listen to rock and D&B, and that 'Shake Your Entire Room' when listening to a movie.

[MCH]

Well from my experience I had a 12" Sony (not the best sub) and then I built the 15" Tempest sealed. I would definitely go with the Tempest 15". For my music it is great realistic sounding bass, not one note thumping, annoying bass. For movies it handles the bass well. My room shakes and things rattle. My room is about 12 x 15. I personally think the 15" is a wiser choice. As to whether ported or sealed, I didn't have the opportunity to evaluate those options. I choose the sealed because the general consesus seem to prefer a sealed for music. I know I extremely pleased with the Tempest for music and movies. I also advise to get a good sub amp. Good clean power will help the bottom line.
You can see my style of the Tempest in the Gallery.

[Brantano]

What amp did you use with your tempest?? Also what alignmetn did you make your tempest (Cubic Size I mean).

[MCH]

My sub is about 4.5 cubic ft. (.65 alignment?). I have the AVA 250 (from Adire). I made 4 subs in this configuration. I used the Adire amp. Strangely there was a difference in the volume output in these amps. The best was the first one. I don't know why. I had my sub amp shut off once in a heavy bass movie. It was quite hot to the touch. So I think a little more power (the Adire has 250 into 4 ohms) would be beneficial. I would also suggest you put the sub amp in it's own box (not in the sub cab). The reason I prefer this: 1. You can put it with other audio equipment. 2. Your line out cord from your reciever to the sub amp will be much shorter. You only need to run speaker wire to the sub amp. If you have you have your sub a fair distance from your reciever this is a better route. 3. Cosmetically I think the sub cabinet looks nicer with out the amp attached. 4. If you build a cylinder shape cab; attaching the sub amp can be challenging (also not very attractive).
Have fun in your build.

[Brantano]

Thanks, thats the amp i had planned to use and the seperate enclosure is a great idea, would save me money on a long interconnect.

Wow, i just checked and found that neither the tempest or the shiva are stocked at either Acoustic Visions or Adire Audio, does anyone know where to buy them? (I guess i might have to consider using a different subwoofer and amp now..)

[kexodusc]

Brantano:

The Adire subs are very good if you buy them already assembled, however, there are other comparable options. Several of the regulars here who've also built the Ed Frias AR.com DIY's have built subwoofers using the Dayton Quatro 15" woofer and 240 watt plate amp with soft-clipping circuitry (which protects the woofer from damage).
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-560
The Quatro is incredibly efficient (so it needs much less power than most subs) and by many accounts sounds a bit better than the Dayton DVC (which is the same driver as the Adires) but won't play quite as loud at max, so it's a bit of a trade-off. Thre great thing is, the Quatro's are very cheap right now.

As for sealed vs. ported...if you go with the Adire or Dayton drivers, definitely go with a sealed cabinet. The ported cabinets allow air in the back to escape through the port and resonate at certrain frequencies to improve both loudness (output, SPL) and extension (20Hz or below). However, the trade-off here is that the woofer becomes much "slower" or not as tight. In a sealed cabinet, the air is trapped, and acts as a brake against the back motion of the woofer...the woofer therefore comes to rest much quicker, 4 or 5 times quicker, before moving again...better motion control over the cone, and less distortion are some benefits, but mostly, the better control and faster response produces a far superior transient response. There's less "overhang" and slopiness of bass notes. This is why many recommend Sealed subs over Ported as MCH suggested.

Simply put, Porteds play louder and deeper, Sealeds play more accurate and punchier bass - better sound quality...we often describe the difference by saying ported cabinets make a "bah" sound, sealed cabinets make a "puh" sound...a bit stronger...
In either the Tempest or 15" Quatro a sealed cabinet will produce the best sound, and since they are 15" woofers, you'll get to 20 Hz and have way over 100 dB of SPL levels anyway, so loudness isn't a factor.

The Quatro and 240 watt plate amp can be bought for a little over $200, so for under $300 with a nice veneer, you have yourself a dynamite 15" sub, that will outperform the Shiva driver.
Or spend a bit more money if you have it and get that last bit of power in the Tempest...either way you'll have enough bass for your purposes.

[Brantano]

I think i may just go for the quatro (as its much MUCH cheaper than the tempest) and i can alwase upgrade down the line since there both 15" (Once the tempest gets back in stock, if it ever does.) How would you compare the quality of the quatro the tempest? It seems like a 'too good to be true' deal. Also, what Liter (Cubic Feet) box should i go with? I'm not sure which would be better with this driver (and the documentation on what results give what sound isnt on the site)

[kexodusc]

If you were to ask the guys over at the Parts Express Tech Talk forum about the difference in sound quality compared to the 15" DVC woofer or the 15" Tempest (these are almost identical woofers built by the same company), they'd tell you it sounds as good or better, but is capable of less max output. The power handlings are about the same, but the x-max (or stroke) of the DVC/Tempest driver is a bit longer, so it sweeps more air, and therefore plays louder...some would argue that this comes at the expense of sound quality though...I haven't heard the Tempest or DVC but I know both are very popular and I don't think you could go wrong there either.
How loud do you want your sub to play? The Quatro fans will tell you the smaller x-max means the woofer moves in and out faster, coming to rest in less time, so the magnet retains more control over the cone while retaining a tighter, and better sound. Poneal, a member here has built the Titanic 12" and Quatro 15"...the Titanic cost about $50 more and claims his Quatro sounds much better for music, but won't play quite as loud. Price isn't always a way to judge, different woofers are built with different goals in mind...the Titanics for example sound very good at very high volumes and are excellent for earth-rattling home theater and for people who love powerful, and loud bass with their music...A Quatro woofer wouldn't sound as good at 105 dB or louder than a Titanic or Tempest woofer, I wouldn't think...and you'd be close to bottoming out the woofer. You'll also go deaf in your room. Don't kid yourself though, that 15" woofer will hit over 105 dB pretty easily...your house will shake. How much bass do you need?
The Quatro loves a 3.5 cu-ft (about 100 L) internal volume in a sealed cabinet...Mine's almost done just have veneering left. A Tempest or DVC would do good in the same cabinet size, but for best results it would like something a bit bigger, around 4.3 cu-ft or so..

You could spend $128 and get the DVC, which is just a rebadged Tempest if you want, it will give you more output capability without sacrificing much sound quality (if any)...my personal, and admittedly bias opinion is that the best bang-for-buck is with the Quatro. I don't think the DVC is enough of an upgrade for your purposes in an 11' X 12' room!!! The Quatro is already overkill.

[Brantano]

Thanks alot, i did some looking around on the PE forums after i posted and found that for my room a 3liter sealed box would be perfect for my room (Front fireing, with about 2lb's of stuffing spread around inside). Now all i have to do is figure out what size cabinet that would make..I hate math.