electrostats/planars? [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : electrostats/planars?



MikeyBC
02-14-2005, 10:35 AM
I've read a lot about magnepans here and that they are a planar speaker, A friend of mine had a pair of Acoustat specra 22's that were electrostats that sounded very nice. What i'm not clear on is the difference ...electrostats have their own transformers that plug directly into the wall, do planars plug in also or are they passive....that being the difference. I was also wondering if a pair of 1.6's would be a worthwhile step up from my PSB's or should I listen to some bigger ones or whether or not they like to be connected to Musical Fidelity Gear.

Feanor
02-14-2005, 12:12 PM
I've read a lot about magnepans here and that they are a planar speaker, A friend of mine had a pair of Acoustat specra 22's that were electrostats that sounded very nice. What i'm not clear on is the difference ...electrostats have their own transformers that plug directly into the wall, do planars plug in also or are they passive....that being the difference. I was also wondering if a pair of 1.6's would be a worthwhile step up from my PSB's or should I listen to some bigger ones or whether or not they like to be connected to Musical Fidelity Gear.
Electrostatics are also planars because air is moved by a relatively large membrane rather than a relatively small piston-like cone or dome. I can't be more technical myself, but electrostatics require that a high voltage be applied to or around the membrane. Other planars, including Magneplanars, do not; instead their membranes are magnetized and are drawn backward or forward with respect to a grid that is power entirely by the amplifier's own voltage. [OK, experts, please correct my details.]

As to whether it might be worth trading the PSP Stratus Silvers for Magneplanar 1.6QR's, that's entirely up to your preferences. They are of entirely different designs and have correspondingly different characteristics. Quite a few critics consider the 1.6's to among the greatest values in audio; on the other hand they have characteristics of sound and set-up that some people just can't tolerate.

Pat D
02-14-2005, 12:25 PM
I've read a lot about magnepans here and that they are a planar speaker, A friend of mine had a pair of Acoustat specra 22's that were electrostats that sounded very nice. What i'm not clear on is the difference ...electrostats have their own transformers that plug directly into the wall, do planars plug in also or are they passive....that being the difference. I was also wondering if a pair of 1.6's would be a worthwhile step up from my PSB's or should I listen to some bigger ones or whether or not they like to be connected to Musical Fidelity Gear.
Magnepans are dynamic speakers.

As to whether they are a step up depends on whether you like them better than the Stratus Silvers, which are very fine speakers. In one way, it's as simple as that.

However, they do react to rooms rather differently. I find my PSB Stratus Minis work better than my old Quad ESL-63 speakers in our living room. It just isn't big enough. (The Quads still worked fairly well, but the blew a power supply, which is expensive to fix and I still would have an old speaker, perhaps still not very reliable. So I tried some accurate, forward radiating, wide dispersion speakers.) Electrostatic and other panel speakers generally are quite directional and have a narrow sweet spot. Accurate, wide dispersion speakers such as the Stratus Series speakers are more room friendly.

risabet
02-14-2005, 02:50 PM
I've read a lot about magnepans here and that they are a planar speaker, A friend of mine had a pair of Acoustat specra 22's that were electrostats that sounded very nice. What i'm not clear on is the difference ...electrostats have their own transformers that plug directly into the wall, do planars plug in also or are they passive....that being the difference. I was also wondering if a pair of 1.6's would be a worthwhile step up from my PSB's or should I listen to some bigger ones or whether or not they like to be connected to Musical Fidelity Gear.

The power supply of an electrostatic is used to set a high voltage, low current charge on the stators, positive on one stator, negative on the other. The stators don't move. The music signal is then applied to the diaphragm which is attracted and repelled by the stators, creating sound.

The Maggies are dynamic speakers, imagine unwinding a voice coil and bonding it to a large sheet of plastic (most likely, mylar), place this sheet in front of a grid of magnets, and when you pass a music sugnal through it voila, sound is generated.

Theoretically, electrodynamic speakers like the Maggies are a higher distortion design due to the non-linearity of the drive system, as the diaphragm moves away from the magnets the drive level decreases due to a decreased magnetic field, though in actual operation this problem is minimal, at least with the large Maggies. Electrostatics don't suffer from this non-linearity as they are true push- pull designs with a constant drive force. They do suffer other issues such as arcing and such, but again, these are minimal in modern ESL designs.

All large panel speakers suffer from beaming, and thus have a sweet spot no more than two listeners wide. Difficulty in room placement compared to most box speakers, which can generally be placed closer to a rear wall. The benefit IMO is the relative purity of sound, the deep open soundstage when properly positioned, and the vanishingly low distortion levels of a good planar speaker.

Geoffcin
02-14-2005, 03:33 PM
I've read a lot about magnepans here and that they are a planar speaker, A friend of mine had a pair of Acoustat specra 22's that were electrostats that sounded very nice. What i'm not clear on is the difference ...electrostats have their own transformers that plug directly into the wall, do planars plug in also or are they passive....that being the difference. I was also wondering if a pair of 1.6's would be a worthwhile step up from my PSB's or should I listen to some bigger ones or whether or not they like to be connected to Musical Fidelity Gear.

I've had Magnepan speakers hooked up to Musical Fidelity gear and it works very well thank you. While mine Magnepans are the 3.6r, I think that the Magnepan 1.6qr, being a bit less aggressive in the top end, is an even better match with Musical Fidelity, and it's powerful high frequency response.

Magnepans are fully passive, and unlike some electrostatic speaker, DO NOT have capacitive issues that can cause even some good amps to have hiccups. They are a 4ohm rated speaker, but the impedance curve is relitivly benign, and most amps don't have any problem driving them. Your MF gear will drive them to a high volume with no problem.

If you ask me I would say absolutely YES, the 1.6qr is a step up from nearly any box speaker in it's price range. Planars do have caveats though, as some of the other post have pointed out. Counter-intuitively, the larger the speaker the smaller the sweet spot. The 1.6qr will give a 3 place sofa sized sweet spot at ~14 feet or so (from the speaker plane), but move it down to 10 feet, and it's going to be you and a very close friend. Also, the room acoustics play even more of a role with planars. Toe-in, and rear wall distance can make a major impact on the perceived soundstage. It can take some time to work things out, but get it right and the whole front wall dissolves into sound. I say it's worth the trouble.

Magnepans hold their value very well, and if for some reason you don't like them they are easily sold.

MikeyBC
02-16-2005, 07:32 AM
Thanks everyone for the info. Will try to listen to the Magnepans in the future when I get a chance. No dealers near me way up north. :(

Feanor
02-16-2005, 09:04 AM
Thanks everyone for the info. Will try to listen to the Magnepans in the future when I get a chance. No dealers near me way up north. :(
If you're in Ontario, you closest Magnempan dealer is probably Audio Excellence in Toronto:
http://www.audioexcellence.ca/

Or possibly in Montreal ...
http://www.studio1006.com/

Or just maybe, if your in the north-west, then Winnipeg ...
http://www.advance.mb.ca/main/main.htm

JoeE SP9
02-16-2005, 02:44 PM
Acoustat Electrostatics use a constant charge on the diaphragm and vary the voltage on the stators (grid) this results in a push pull operation of the diaphragm.I believe ML uses the same principle. IMHO Magnepan MG1.6QR's are the best buy in audio. The 3.3R's are a very close second but they are $4K as opposed to $1.6K.

Geoffcin
02-16-2005, 03:43 PM
Acoustat Electrostatics use a constant charge on the diaphragm and vary the voltage on the stators (grid) this results in a push pull operation of the diaphragm.I believe ML uses the same principle. IMHO Magnepan MG1.6QR's are the best buy in audio. The 3.3R's are a very close second but they are $4K as opposed to $1.6K.

The 3.3r is a fantastic speaker. Used they are about $1500. I would reccomend them to anyone who is interested in Magnepans, but is on a budget.

RGA
02-16-2005, 04:48 PM
D'ohhh I like your Avatar.

Really, you know the answer I suspect...You need to listen ---Maggie has diehard fans and IMO if a speaker can do that it really deserves to be heard --- you may not agree with them but biy if you do yo will be one happy camper. The Stratus Silver is good but not overly exciting which may be why you're pining for something else. My dealer used to carry Magnepan and owned the top of the line 20 and the major complaint was positioning...I didn't care for the SMG but it's an older lower end one.

Your amp will drive pretty much everything.

Personally I would listen to gear at every dealer available to you or make the trip to Soundhounds during the summer and book a few all day appointments (They will set up whatever you wish to hear -- they carry Martin Logan so you can get an idea of panel sound if you've not heard it. The Linn speakers have the rear firing tweeters etc. Then Vancouver isn't far and they carry loads of other brands including Magnepan and Dynaudio (Sound Plus on Broadway I believe)...That is where I heard Wilson, Dynaudio, PMC and they also have the big Maggies --- and shudder... Bose. I heard the 3. something briefly --- in the end the panel sound does not quite do it for me though I think you should DEFINITELY audition this kind of speaker because they do do things that if you like them will be really hard to go back to most boxed designs --- I certainly like planars over the majority of boxed speakers. The only real question that matters is Will You?