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hertz
02-08-2005, 11:33 PM
Need your thoguhts on this...
Recently I had the pleasure to listen to the proac studio 125's.Those speakers just blew me away !Now they are my bench mark. The sad part is that I can't afford the proacs right now.I know proacs are expensive and there are a lot of people who say that they are over priced. Has anybody out here done an extensive comparison of other speakers to this ? I am looking for something in the range of 1200$ or less which campares or even beat the proacs ? I know there are so many giant killers out there and some of them are not hyped up also.I loved proacs because there is absolutely no boom in the bass (very tight tunefull bass) and the highs and mids floated into the room. Very addictive and musical sound !
I am a pure stereo guy. Listen to classic rock and Jazz.Need good dynamic attack in the sound without being aggresive and harsh.16 x 20 ft room and plan to run it off NAD seperates or the roksan kandy amp.

Buzz Roll
02-09-2005, 07:58 AM
Proacs are definitely nice speakers. I was into the Studio 100s for a while, but when I started getting into time coherent designs, the 100s starting sounding really boxy to me. It's funny because a recording engineer that I know through a mutual friend used to sell Proacs. He'd send you a demo model to hear at home, and get you a good deal on a pair. Well I noticed that a quote from him is at the top of the list in the new Green Mountain Audio brochure. Somewhere along the way, he also got hip to time coherent speakers.

If you don't mind monitors, try a pair of Green Mountain Audio Europas. If you want to stick to floors, then try the Ohm Walsh series (excellent for rock and jazz) that I'm always talking about, or something as natural sounding like a pair of Meadowlarks (try for a used pair of the original Kestrels).

Two reviews, just to give you an idea about Ohm.
http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/walsh/micro.html
http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/ohm/ohm.html

hertz
02-09-2005, 11:22 PM
Thanks.
I will go through the reviews and check out the medowlarks and europas. I know there are a lot of speakers out there with less hype.I am trying to get as much info on this..:))
keep' em coming in.

Shwamdoo
02-11-2005, 03:06 PM
If your looking for a great speaker, like the ProAC, but you can't afford your taste I recomend a DYI kit. It may be a little work, but I think its a fun experience and you can get some great sound for a low price. I recomend Madisound kits. They are a highly regarded speaker parts company and they have some affordable kits. The Cygnet, in particular, uses Seas drivers and I highly recomend it.

If you don't want to build it yourself, Epos makes some great speakers for the buck. Try their M5 or their M12.2 depending on which meets your needs.

Those are the two greatest values that I can think of that have still had impressive sound. However, I'm in the same market as you and if you would like I can share more of my findings later. I'm a bit pressed for time now though. I hope that helps.

RGA
02-11-2005, 05:34 PM
Try some AN speakers some time they are time aligned to a master curve and their speakers are upgradeable.

46minaudio
02-11-2005, 05:59 PM
Try some AN speakers some time they are time aligned to a master curve and their speakers are upgradeable.
Yea but but you said they must be placed in corners to sound their best...Vandersteen are time aligned and can be placed anywhere...

RGA
02-11-2005, 06:10 PM
AN recommends that they be placed in corners - that does not mean they MUST be however. Time alignment itself means little - which is why AN doesn't even bother to mention that they do it.

46minaudio
02-11-2005, 06:17 PM
Time alignment itself means little - which is why AN doesn't even bother to mention that they do it.
Yea but you must...If not why must you mention it...You are one funny shill.

RGA
02-11-2005, 06:34 PM
Buzzroll likes speakers that are time aligned - AN I happen to know is time aligned - I figure since he has a similar ear in that he too thought the 700 series was caca then he might like a speaker I like.

So now I can't recommend a speaker I like is that it. It's pretty sad that 46min audio doesn;t understand what a shill is --- I gather 46 is the IQ.

46minaudio
02-11-2005, 07:25 PM
AN speakers some time they are time aligned to a master curve and their speakers are upgradeable.


AN Time alignment itself means little - which is why AN doesn't even bother to mention that they do it.

Buzzroll likes speakers that are time aligned - AN I happen to know is time aligned - .
Help me please as to what the **** you want to say..Except the fact that you are one major shilll...
Ps can you tell I just wating for fishing season to get here....

RGA
02-11-2005, 10:13 PM
Okay

Buzz Roll said this ". I was into the Studio 100s for a while, but when I started getting into time coherent designs, the 100s starting sounding really boxy to me. It's funny because a recording engineer that I know through a mutual friend used to sell Proacs. He'd send you a demo model to hear at home, and get you a good deal on a pair. Well I noticed that a quote from him is at the top of the list in the new Green Mountain Audio brochure."

I know Buzzroll is a GMA fan and so is Noel at Skylan. Buzzroll likes speakers that are time coherent - AN speakers are time aligned which some who want it might not know because they don't advertise that particular fact - therefore I suggested he try them sometime - zero to do with 46IQ so why does 46IQ get involved?

Buzz Roll
02-11-2005, 10:52 PM
RGA, I'm tryin' to find some in NYC! From what I read, I think the ANs are up my alley. Yeah, I'm hooked on the time/phase/align thing, but that's just my preference. I find that once that aspect is covered, everything else starts to fall into place.

46minaudio
02-12-2005, 01:58 PM
I know Buzzroll is a GMA fan and so is Noel at Skylan. Buzzroll likes speakers that are time coherent - AN speakers are time aligned which some who want it might not know because they don't advertise that particular fact - therefore I suggested he try them sometime - zero to do with 46IQ so why does 46IQ get involved?Why cant I suggest him to try Vandersteen?
So to get involved one must speak of ANs,and only ANs..

Try some AN speakers some time they are time aligned to a master curve and their speakers are upgradeable.

Yea but but you said they must be placed in corners to sound their best...Vandersteen are time aligned and can be placed anywhere...

Time alignment itself means little -

Is there somthing wrong with me posting about Vandersteen...Where is the rule posted that only ANs time aligned speakers are allowed..?So the master of all audio brags about ANs being time alinged.But when Vandersteens get mentioned for the same thing it means nothing...Why RGA is it wrong for me to get involved...And to top it all off you start name calling...

RGA
02-13-2005, 12:04 PM
Why 46 min audio have I got on your case for suggestion Vandersteen? No!

The reason I don't feel Time alignment is that important is because many speakers using it sound nothing remotely alike --- so if it was usefull all by itself then Vandersteen GMA Audio Note and Thiel?? would sound alike --- they don't. If someone wants a time coherent speaker because they perceive something in it then suggest Vandersteen. I suggest speakers I like ---- when someone suggests a speaker I don't call them a shill. I may have felt that way about those nOhr people but I didn't call them shills ---- and at that time that company was new, had no reviews and few people who owned them In my case, you seem to think very few peole own Audio Note, they are a new outfit and have no other supporters. If you spend time on a higher end forum such as Audio asylum you will know I'm hardly alone in my opinion --- and the DAC crowd is gigantic.

Name calling - look in the mirror.

RGA
02-13-2005, 12:37 PM
RGA, I'm tryin' to find some in NYC! From what I read, I think the ANs are up my alley. Yeah, I'm hooked on the time/phase/align thing, but that's just my preference. I find that once that aspect is covered, everything else starts to fall into place.

The drivers need to act in such a way as to sound like one instrument - that is critcal. AN takes it further than most - driver matching - the physical sinic characteristic of the actual drivers need to closely match in their view, the speakers need to sound as close to identical with each other as is possible...which is why they so closely match by hand every single speaker --- part of the reason they have a higher cost is because they test every speaker before it goes out..they also keep a record of every single driver in every single speaker --- so if 10 years from now you blow a tweeter they have the speicifc specs on file and can calibrate it to your speaker...it is not enough to just get 100 SEAS woofer and stuff them in a box --- each one will be slightly different in variance from others. Other companies which seem bigger have advertised matching of drivers -- Kef's flagship expensive speakers raved about matching to .05db --- AN does .02 for their cheapest speakers...the point isn't that you'll notice a difference (you may you may not) but that if Kef's top of the line 10k+ speaker is worse in this regard to a $550.00US AX Two then how bad is the $550.00 Kef model --- because it could be 3db off for all anyone knows.

Frankly, all the blatheirng I came to after listening so it's just "hmm that's nice bit of info" but who cares --- I cared about what I heard yesterday at Soundhounds, I care about listening at loud levels for hours on hend without fatigue and being amazed by the treble extension and the bottom end thunder on big organ pieces like the Saint-Saens and the big bold Bolero and then listening to the kind of dynamic bass punch offerred up by Madonna's Justify My Love or Vogue. All that on an Audio Note OTO which supposedly can't do it. Well maybe not driving Thiels or some other power hog.

Nor can I explain why the Skylan Turntable base helps my turntable sound more solid -- they don't post measured response --- why some shmoe with an EQ cn change the frequency response far more --- but wat does it sound like?

That's the problem with forums --- Audio Note and Peter's claims sound like a luddite to people who have not heard them and people who like them are called shills. No doubt that is why GMA has taken some beatings on other forums from people who have never heard them. :rolleyes:

I'm not familiar with NY and how far things are away from eachother but this is probably the best dealer to go to and will probably have the most AN gear in the US.

20 Hugh Drive
Brooklyn, CT 06234
USA
Tel.: (890) 779-7761
David Cope

One in NY
1401 Ocean Ave, STE LH
Brooklyn, N.Y. 11230
(718) 377-8010

My dealer suspects it will take about two years to build a bigger base. The difficulty with AN is that it's not fashionable, not feature loaded and not cheap. There are lots of dealers who have to carry entry level lines because they sell the most --- but these take up floor and storage space. It's much easier to sell something like

B&W 602S3 (or comparable)
Enter Receiver here
some cheap cd player here
Add sub here

Then the dealer carries a Bryston or Rotel which is still affordable because the person that bought the above will come back to buy the add on power amp or a new source and then may upgrade --- so if you take on B&W they often want you to take more lines so you have the 705 and then the 805 as upgrade(if you call the 705 an upgrade).

Audio Note is similar in a way - but dissimar as well - no remote controls for most of their stuff - no surround sound need lots of space, less name recognition, expensivve and tougher to sell because now people have to actually listen instead of being presold by a magazine etc.

No doubt why GMA isn't selling in every shop window - it takes time to roll out. The AN lines owns the market here but it took 3-4 years to do it. Now it outsells the Flagships that Soundhounds carries --- because owners talk - like I do on forums --- more owners more talk --- someone will now go and say "fine I guess I'll give it a try" then it's in the bag and you see a lot of Totem Mani 2's and big Tannoys coming in on trades --- and Totem leaving the sotre because they are so easily waxed that they have to go to A&B sound big box chains.

I hope for more smaller companies like GMA to come along because most of what I hear is trash --- I want to see more companies who have a passion about the sound not just selling a box.

theaudiohobby
02-13-2005, 02:15 PM
Other companies which seem bigger have advertised matching of drivers --to achieve a variance of no more than 0.1dB in a stereo pair, which must also be within a remarkable 0.2dB variance from the reference SEC speaker curve.

Geoffcin
02-13-2005, 02:33 PM
Need your thoguhts on this...
Recently I had the pleasure to listen to the proac studio 125's.Those speakers just blew me away !Now they are my bench mark. The sad part is that I can't afford the proacs right now.I know proacs are expensive and there are a lot of people who say that they are over priced. Has anybody out here done an extensive comparison of other speakers to this ? I am looking for something in the range of 1200$ or less which campares or even beat the proacs ? I know there are so many giant killers out there and some of them are not hyped up also.I loved proacs because there is absolutely no boom in the bass (very tight tunefull bass) and the highs and mids floated into the room. Very addictive and musical sound !
I am a pure stereo guy. Listen to classic rock and Jazz.Need good dynamic attack in the sound without being aggresive and harsh.16 x 20 ft room and plan to run it off NAD seperates or the roksan kandy amp.

Your very lucky because you've found a speaker that blows you away. I know ProAc, and it's my educated guess that any of the speakers mentioned, although good speakers, will not be in ProAc league. Life is just too short to settle for less if you don't have to. Audiogon.com is the place to look for great deals. Here's a set of 125's for you in YOUR price range; http://forums.audioreview.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=71350

RGA
02-13-2005, 03:56 PM
They must be doing a much better job on their cheaper speakers then, since they only manage a tolerance of only 0.1 dB on the $19.5K Audio Note AN-E SEC Silver (http://www.audionote.co.uk/reviews/stereotimes_an-e_sec_silver_loudspeaker.htm) after extensive labor. ;) ;)

Yes I oppologise I had all decimal places off. AN matches drivers to better than .1db on their upper speakers.

RGA
02-13-2005, 04:09 PM
Your very lucky because you've found a speaker that blows you away. I know ProAc, and it's my educated guess that any of the speakers mentioned, although good speakers, will not be in ProAc league. Life is just too short to settle for less if you don't have to. Audiogon.com is the place to look for great deals. Here's a set of 125's for you in YOUR price range; http://forums.audioreview.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=71350

Why would you say that --- I have heard Proac 125 --- Commercial Electronics has a used one right now going for about $4kCdn. A Response series I believe it was the D25 Can;t remember that was a whole two weekends back. Certainly better than most stuff I've heard lately. I'll leave the league comment because it's silly.

Geoffcin
02-13-2005, 04:42 PM
Why would you say that --- I have heard Proac 125 --- Commercial Electronics has a used one right now going for about $4kCdn. A Response series I believe it was the D25 Can;t remember that was a whole two weekends back. Certainly better than most stuff I've heard lately. I'll leave the league comment because it's silly.

ProAc has been setting the standard for small "monitor" speakers for 30 years or more. My relationship with them goes back nearly that far. My first experience with them was in a major NY recording studio that was using them as their reference monitors. Also, several of my friends, all professional musicians, have them in their audio setups. While I like my Maggies better, I can appreciate the dynamics and pinpoint imaging of the Proacs. One day a set of ProAcs will make it into my office system....(Im still having fun with the Von Schweikert FPS so that will have to wait for a while)

RGA
02-13-2005, 11:08 PM
You don't have to convince me I liked what I heard --- nevertheless, I never really go for the arguments that musician friends or recording studio speakers use them therefore they are better. Plenty of musicians and Recording studios like Audio Note --- One of the big folks at Chesky for a start and memebers of the Victoria Symphony and all of this can be said for plenty of speakers we don't like I bet as well.

I think the important bit is do you like em or not...this poster likes Proac -- if it excites you I say go for it...you can always be looking around the corner for the next best thing. I onl listened to the Proac for about 10 minutes --- sometimes that;s all it takes to know it's doing it right. I'm not going to make a trade --- but the Proac was certainly nice and apparently tube friendly which makes it nicer.

Geoffcin
02-13-2005, 11:27 PM
You don't have to convince me I liked what I heard --- nevertheless, I never really go for the arguments that musician friends or recording studio speakers use them therefore they are better. Plenty of musicians and Recording studios like Audio Note --- One of the big folks at Chesky for a start and memebers of the Victoria Symphony and all of this can be said for plenty of speakers we don't like I bet as well.


First you say that you don't "go for" my argument, and then use the same type of argument to promote your personal choice. In case you haven't been reading my posts, they are not based on what other people are saying, but on what I've heard myself with my own ears. When my friends, some of whom are professional musicans, choose a speaker that I also like, it's not like saying some guy at Chesky likes these speakers. Do us all a favor and let the rest of us post without adding extra commentary.

46minaudio
02-14-2005, 05:50 AM
--- I never really go for the arguments that musician friends or recording studio speakers use them therefore they are better.

Plenty of musicians and Recording studios like Audio Note --- One of the big folks at Chesky for a start and memebers of the Victoria Symphony .
Toooo funny....