New to Home Theater, Need some advice on buying a Sub

[potcha]

I am just getting into putting my Home Theater System together and was wondering if I could get some advice on some in-expensive Subs. I have heard that the SVS subs are awsome but is there a less expensive starter sub out there? Also do you need to buy the 700W amp for the SVS stuff to sound good or could I just buy the sub?

[TinHere]

I am just getting into putting my Home Theater System together and was wondering if I could get some advice on some in-expensive Subs. I have heard that the SVS subs are awsome but is there a less expensive starter sub out there? Also do you need to buy the 700W amp for the SVS stuff to sound good or could I just buy the sub?
Budget?
How large is your room?
Percentage HT/music?



Any sub from SVS will sound good as long as it isn't underpowered/sized for the area. SVS sells passive cylinders if you have an amp you can use. They have very good customer service and don't try to "oversell" your needs.

The HSU VTF-2 or Rocket UFW-10 are subs that will also deliver a lot for the money.

For less money there is Adaire or check out the DIY available at partsexpress.com.

Happy hunting.

Edit: I just saw the HSU STF-2 on sale for $399.

[F1]

.....
Edit: I just saw the HSU STF-2 on sale for $399.

'Basically' Hsu STF-2 is a Hsu VTF-2 that is fixed at maximum freq extension. This is the setting that most people use on their VTF-2. I have VTF-2 and very happy with its performance for both music and movie.

[potcha]

is there anything worth buying that is 200 or less?

[This Guy]

Pretty much any sub at $200 will be junk, even if you made one for that much. Look up at doubling your budget and you could get what the previous posters said. Best bets would be an Adire audio rava, HSU-vtf-2, or an svs. Trust me, you do not want to be skimping in the sub department, the sub will either make or break your system.

-Joey

[dld]

I've had experience with only two and both are relatively inexpensive. I owned the KSW 12, bought from an internet shop. It developed an audible buzz (you could hear it from 15 feet away during quiet moments, and soon thereafter the port started "chuffing". Of course these irregularities occurred about 1 month after the 1 year warranty expired. I seem to be in the minority here but I did not like this sub one bit. For about the same amount of $$$ you could buy a Velodyne CT series, and I did. I got the 10" sub and it has no problem filling my 17'x22' x 10' high listening room. If I ever change, I would consider the HSU line of subs highly recommended in these parts. So far (2 years) tho, very happy with the Velo.

[Bryan]

is there anything worth buying that is 200 or less?

Not particularly. Generally the better $200 subs are still boomy, such as the Sony SA-WM40. Now, if you have the tools available why not build one for yourself? Get a driver, such as SVS' original driver for their CS series (I have one, BTW), and an amp, some MDF, etc. and you can have one that will out perform most other subs. Things become much cheaper if you have something other than your primary receiver to power the sub with. Even VMPS Smaller Subwoofer (http://www.vmpsaudio.com) goes for $289 for the kit.

Otherwise, look around at older, used subs and know quality does not come cheap. Even the better entry level subs go for around $450 on up.

[cadolfan]

You don't need another amp for a Sub do you?

[This Guy]

it's powered or acitive it has it's own amp and you won't need one (95 % of all subs made today are powered). If it's passive you will need an amplifier.

-joey

[pelly3s]

if you are good with building cabinets or if you can assemble one that is pre cut then Parts Express sells a Dayton MkII that is in my opinion a great sub. Power it with a Crown MA-600 and it is great.

[C Bennett]

I think it depends on your budget,expectations,and room size. Some guys here are realistic and some will tell you to buy the biggest and most expensive sub you can cause it will be right(if its bigger/louder/more expensive it has to be what you need :) some will try to tell you). I have a 12X20 living room/listening area. I was in the dilema that I did not have $400-500(about the range where "most" will tell you the decent subs start)to spend on a sub so I was really searching hard to find something. Everyone was saying if I did not get a $400+ sub(particularly a SVS or HSU) I would never be happy. Well I did some auditions and some web surfing about the subject of less expensive subs. I think it depends on what your looking for. If you want bass so deep it will rattle windows and other such stuff you wont get that kind of performance for under the $400+ mark( at least at normal listening levels). Also you dont need a huge sub for a room 12X20 or under it IMO would just be too much for a small room. I got a lot of ggod oppinions here and by searching a lot. I narrowed it down to about 4-5 subs that for $200 or there abouts(then down to 3) I think IMO are worth having if your on a budget or just can't awing a SVS/HSU(or other). Now these WON'T match the performance of the perviously named subs but they also are not trying to since they are $200+ less. The ones I looked at after weeding out were(in no particular order):1. Cambridge Soundworks Bass Cube S12(about $200 to your door) sealed enclousure(non ported for IMO tighter Bass at this level) this was on HiFi.com ebay store this is where their closeouts/seconds/overstock goes to be liquidated all are fully warrentied. I think this would be a nice sub with good power for a 12X20 room. 2. Velodyne VX10 good reviews from what I saw and around $170-190 good for a small listening area where a larger sub would have been too much or mabey even too big. 3.Atlantic Technology T70 this is actually what I ended up getting. This is also a acoustic suspension model. It goes down to 25Hz and has a conservatively rated 125 watt amp 10" driver 60-150 Hz crossover adjustment. I got this sub to my door for $179 this subs normal retail is $400+. I am very happy with this sub in my room. IMO anything more would probably be too much for my size living room. I actually had to turn this sub down while listening to Terminator3 cause I was worried about the neighbors. OK now none of these will compare or go quite as low as easily as a SVS/HSU etc but they will work and IMO sound good in a small to medium room if your on a budget. To be honest im gald I got this AT T70 sub cause I was thinking of saving(from oct to mabey july)to get a SVS but it would have been too much for me in my house and was glad to be able to put that extra $300 into the receiver and speakers. So like I said yes there is stuff out there and decent stuff at that but you have to decide what you want. I know im happy with what I have and the way it worked out.

[Geoffcin]

is there anything worth buying that is 200 or less?

Yes, I have a Cambridge Soundwork 12S that works well, and cost me less than $200. It's not audiophile grade, but it puts out well for HT. You can get one direct on ebay for about ~$170. Don't bid too much higher as these always come up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3275&item=3067633967

Oh, this is a powered sub, so you don't need another amp for it.

[Rhino]

You can get s JBL PB-12 powered sub for around $200. Some early models had problems with the amps in them but I've owned one for 3 years now and have been very happy with it. It's terrific for home theater and works well for music too. It's not the be-all/end-all sub, I'm sure, but I've never even considered replacing it with something else. It sounds great, isn't boomy, and shakes the walls like you wouldn't believe. And best of all, it's CHEAP!!!

Here's a link to a web retailer selling it for $217 right now.

http://www.bestpriceaudiovideo.com/products/product_detail.asp?Inventory=782&Class=57affiliate_code=dt

[Beckman]

I own an infinity il100s, and it sounds good. Very tight bass response, but only goes down to 32Hz. I would suggest looking on ebay,also Audio Advisor has excellent clearance offers on subs if you sign up fo their newsletter.

[cadolfan]

Looking to spend between $200-$300 for a sub. Is the HSU STF-1 a good sub. I'll be using it for music and ht.

[Woochifer]

No matter what sub you go with, proper setup and addressing room acoustics are every bit as important as, if not more than, the differences between the different subwoofer models because of how rooms interact with low frequencies. Just dropping a subwoofer into the corner with no calibration will likely give you "one-note" bass. It'll be loud and boomy, but far from accurate, full sounding, and/or listenable.

Ideally, the subwoofer takes over where you main speakers leave off, and handles only the lowest of the low frequencies. You should not know it's there; only if you turn it off should you notice that it's missing. The thing about subwoofers is that your room will likely induce at least one severe peak at a specific frequency. It's those peaks that cause subwoofers to sound boomy. You actually want to reduce the peakiness so that you can turn the subwoofer level higher and let the bass sound fuller. Boomy bass gives you emphasis at those peaks, but makes the rest of the bass range sound very lean and wimpy. (kind of like listening to an acoustic bass where you sorta hear it until the musician hits one particular note and it sounds loud enough to ring your head)

If addition to getting a subwoofer, you should also invest in a SPL meter and a test disc of some kind. At the very least, you want to make sure that the overall level is correct. Ideally, you would use the test tones to identify where potential problem frequencies occur. If you find any, then either a parametric equalizer and/or room treatments (plenty of DIY solutions out there that you can build out of simple building materials and a glue gun) will be needed to optimize the sound.

This may be a bit advanced, but optimizing the equipment that you have will save you money in the long run because a proper setup typically goes a longer way towards improving your sound quality than swapping out equipment.

[cadolfan]

If addition to getting a subwoofer, you should also invest in a SPL meter and a test disc of some kind. At the very least, you want to make sure that the overall level is correct. Ideally, you would use the test tones to identify where potential problem frequencies occur. If you find any, then either a parametric equalizer and/or room treatments (plenty of DIY solutions out there that you can build out of simple building materials and a glue gun) will be needed to optimize the sound.

This may be a bit advanced, but optimizing the equipment that you have will save you money in the long run because a proper setup typically goes a longer way towards improving your sound quality than swapping out equipment.

Thanks Woo,
my hk avr325 has a SPL meter on the remote. will that work. i just got everything connected. i'm still learning how to setup the speakers. i ended up getting a Sony - 8" 75-Watt Powered Subwoofer
SAWM200 (i know it's cheap but i have a small family room and i wanted a speaker i could just get my feet wet until i upgrade). I'm still figuring out the speaker set up on the a/v and lower as you say the peaks and increase the subwoofer level. I need to figure out the sub's correct settings (Phase Switch On/Off, a Variable High-Cut Frequency: 50 - 170 Hz,) manual says freq settings depend on the size of the speakers. do you have any input?
cadolfan

[Beckman]

Thanks Woo,
my hk avr325 has a SPL meter on the remote. will that work. i just got everything connected. i'm still learning how to setup the speakers. i ended up getting a Sony - 8" 75-Watt Powered Subwoofer
SAWM200 (i know it's cheap but i have a small family room and i wanted a speaker i could just get my feet wet until i upgrade). I'm still figuring out the speaker set up on the a/v and lower as you say the peaks and increase the subwoofer level. I need to figure out the sub's correct settings (Phase Switch On/Off, a Variable High-Cut Frequency: 50 - 170 Hz,) manual says freq settings depend on the size of the speakers. do you have any input?
cadolfan

The phase switch changes the direction the speaker is traveling. This is like swithching the +- wires to the sub. Listen to a movie with a lot of explosions and see what setting sounds better. this will depend on room accustics and sub location.

The high frequency cutoff should be 10 or 20 Hz above the main speakes lowest frequency response. Ususaly around 50 Hz - 70 Hz. The idea is to have the sub kick in for frequencies the main speakers can't reproduce. However, your reciever should take care of all this. Keep in mind, as mentioned earlier, you should not be able to tell if the bass is coming fom the sub but you should be able to tell if the sub is off. Many if not most people turn their subs up way too loud.

Subs are designed for adding a solid low end to a system, not to rattle paintings off the wall. A good check to see if your system is set up right is to listen to music (Les Calypool) with a bass guitar and see if you can tell if the lower bass notes are coming from the sub or the main speakers. I had a lot of problems with this and ended up turning my sub perpendicular to my main speakers and this seems to help a lot.

[Woochifer]

Thanks Woo,
my hk avr325 has a SPL meter on the remote. will that work. i just got everything connected. i'm still learning how to setup the speakers. i ended up getting a Sony - 8" 75-Watt Powered Subwoofer
SAWM200 (i know it's cheap but i have a small family room and i wanted a speaker i could just get my feet wet until i upgrade). I'm still figuring out the speaker set up on the a/v and lower as you say the peaks and increase the subwoofer level. I need to figure out the sub's correct settings (Phase Switch On/Off, a Variable High-Cut Frequency: 50 - 170 Hz,) manual says freq settings depend on the size of the speakers. do you have any input?
cadolfan

If you're using the subwoofer preout from your receiver (which is most common for a home theatre setup), then the crossover frequency on the sub itself is meaningless. On the receiver setup menu, just set all of your speakers to "Small" and turn the crossover setting on the subwoofer all the way to the highest frequency. The position of the phase switch depends on the placement and room acoustics. Just go with whatever position gives you the most even sounding bass from your listening position. Use the SPL meter and a test tone to match the levels between the main speakers and the subwoofer.

The only time you'd need to bother with the crossover frequency is if you're high passing the signal by running the speaker cables through the subwoofer first before the signal gets passed onto the speakers. And really the only time you would likely high pass the signal would be in a two-channel setup.