What does "Soundstage" & Imaging exactly mean?

[hershon]

I keep seeing the term soundstage in alot of these posts. What exactly does that mean? I also see the word imaging. I think I know what that means but would appreciate someone giving me definitions of the 2. Thanks

[N. Abstentia]

Well the way I've always thought of a soundstage is just exactly what it sounds like...the virtual 'stage' that you can imagine when you sit down and listen to music. That's one thing I've always loved about my Paradigm Active 40's..the soundstage is amazingly wide and layered. You can pick the individual instruments out of the air and the stage extends out well beyond the actual speakers.

Imaging would be the image created by the vocalist. Ideally I like the the vocalist to be front & center and a little forward in the soundstage. When you get it right imaging is like a 3d effect, you can almost reach out and touch the vocalist. That's when the recording sounds exactly like it should and you reach 'audio bliss' :)

[hershon]

I know you've mentioned this previously but what is your receiver & CD player brand amd model number. What do you think of these CD & DVD sound improvement products (See my thread underneath)?


Well the way I've always thought of a soundstage is just exactly what it sounds like...the virtual 'stage' that you can imagine when you sit down and listen to music. That's one thing I've always loved about my Paradigm Active 40's..the soundstage is amazingly wide and layered. You can pick the individual instruments out of the air and the stage extends out well beyond the actual speakers.

Imaging would be the image created by the vocalist. Ideally I like the the vocalist to be front & center and a little forward in the soundstage. When you get it right imaging is like a 3d effect, you can almost reach out and touch the vocalist. That's when the recording sounds exactly like it should and you reach 'audio bliss' :)

[kexodusc]

I've also thought of imaging as how well you can identify the exact location of intsuments across the entire soundstage...lots of speakers image quite well for vocals, but are too tightly focused on the center.
Room acoustics and speaker placement has as much to do with soundstaging and imaging as the gear itself.

[Lensman]

I keep seeing the term soundstage in alot of these posts. What exactly does that mean? I also see the word imaging. I think I know what that means but would appreciate someone giving me definitions of the 2. Thanks

Soundstage and imaging are generally used to define the ability of speakers to create a realistic three-dimensional sound space and position indivdual sounds within that space.

The term soundstage refers to the apparent width, depth and height of the recorded sound played by the speakers. When you close your eyes and listen to a recording, do your ears tell you there are different sounds coming from the points in the room where your speakers are placed? Or do they tell you there's an area similar to a theater stage from which all sound seems to emanate? Speakers with good soundstaging, when properly set up, should do the later. The speakers themselves should seem to disappear, replaced instead by a three-dimensional spatial arrangement of music sources.

The size of the soundstage created by the speakers determines their ability reproduce different types of recordings with compelling realism. Speakers with a small soundstage may realistically reproduce the ambience of a live performance such as a jazz ensemble at a nightclub. But they may not be capable of conveying the sense of spaciousness needed to convince you that you've been transported to a large concert hall where an orchestra is performing.

Different speakers have different abilities to reproduce each of the dimensions (width, depth and height). For example, a pair of speakers may produce a very wide and tall soundstage but the sound may seem flat because the speakers have very limited ability to create a sense of depth.

The term imaging refers to the ability of the speakers to position individual sounds within the soundstage. When you close your eyes, can you tell where each musician was standing when the recording was made? Or do the vocals and instruments come from vague, fuzzy areas? With speakers that image well, the position of the voices and instruments should be easily identifiable at specific locations and shouldn't seem to move with variations in frequency.

The ability to soundstage and image properly are crucial to making speakers listenable for extended periods. This is because throughout our day-to-day living, our brains continuously work to match sounds our ears hear to their sources in the environment. Speakers use the way our ears deliver sound to trick our brains into thinking we are with the musicians in a location such as a studio or concert hall. When sounds are disassociated with their position and surrounding space due to poor imaging and soundstage, our brains work extra hard to try match the sounds to their sources. This can be quite tiring. Which leads to another audio term: listener fatigue. A set of speakers is "fatguing" when you find you can't listen to a them for more than a certain length of time. Though speakers can cause fatigue due to improper frequency reproduction (such as shrill highs or muddy bass), they can also be tiring even though there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the specific sounds they make. For example, the guitar or singer's vocals, or anything else, may sound just fine. But after listening for an hour or two of anything, you've just had enough.

Though soundstage and imaging vary from speaker to speaker, as Kexodusc pointed out, room acoustics and precise placement of the speakers in your room also has a dramatic effect on the way they sound. Think of a camera. No matter how expensive it is, a camera will never take a good picture as long as its lens is out of focus. Good room acoustics and proper positioning of speakers helps focus the sound and can make significant improvements to the size of their soundstage and ability to accurately image.

For example, a pair of speakers may have imaging that sounds precise on the left and right sides, but sounds fuzzy in the area between them. Angling the speakers toward each other a few degrees (toe-in) can improve the center image dramatically. But, it can also narrow the soundstage. Moving the speakers into the room and away from the back wall can increase soundstage depth. Tilting the speakers or placing them at a height where the tweeters are in line with your ears can, in many instances, improve both soundstage and imaging.

[Quagmire]

I keep seeing the term soundstage in alot of these posts. What exactly does that mean? I also see the word imaging. I think I know what that means but would appreciate someone giving me definitions of the 2. Thanks

Often times these terms get used interchangeably; probably because they are related and each can effect the other; but to me they are two very distinct properties.

Imaging is how well speakers create the individual instruments. In other words, in your mind's eye, do they create "auditory images" of instruments which sound realistic, well defined and three dimensional; like you would swear the piano or vocalist is in the room with you, or... are the instruments presented in such a way that they all seem to blur together into a single hodgepodge of undefined sounds: You know that "that" instrument is suppose to be a trumpet or an upright bass, but it sounds very flat or two dimensional and unconvincing. Often times, when speakers image well, you'll hear folks say that they can even hear the "air" around the instruments.

Soundstage refers to the creation of the three dimensional stage on which all of these virtual instruments exist. In other words, it's the "placement" of these instruments in space as opposed to how well the instruments have been created. The sensation should be that if you closed your eyes and picked out a single instrument from the mix, you'd be able to point right to it. Good soundstage should have a very three dimensional quality to it as well -- not just laterally, left and right, but also with depth -- front to back. To me, soundstage also includes the creation of the space in which the instruments are being played: The room itself is an instrument and the creation of a good soundstage should retain qualities of the acoustic space in which the recording was made; that is of course, unless the sound engineer has taken pains to make sure it is not part of the mix.

An example of what I'm talking about might be a recording of a solo instrument, such as a cello. In this case, the imaging of the single instrument would be vitally important as it is the only instrument being played. There may not be much in the way of soundstage in terms of the cello sharing space with other instruments, but how it relates to the acoustic performance space aournd it would be very important. The performance can sound drastically different depending on how much (or little) of the room is captured along with the instrument being played. So even though you have a solo instrument, the soundstage is still an important consideration and quite seperate from imaging. Like I said to begin with, these two things can be confused with one another, but I see them as distinct.

Q

[Smokey]

So even though you have a solo instrument, the soundstage is still an important consideration and quite seperate from imaging. Like I said to begin with, these two things can be confused with one another, but I see them as distinct.Q

Hi Q

Good post.

It might also be worth mentioning that imaging very much depend on phase relation between right and left speakers. By altering the phase relation [electrically] between two speakers, on can alter the imaging also. For example, we can alter the imaging (including placing them behind our head) by simply changing the phase relationship. That is how phantom center or surround sound is based on :)

[dean_martin]

Soundstage and imaging are generally used to define the ability of speakers to create a realistic three-dimensional sound space and position indivdual sounds within that space.

The term soundstage refers to the apparent width, depth and height of the recorded sound played by the speakers. When you close your eyes and listen to a recording, do your ears tell you there are different sounds coming from the points in the room where your speakers are placed? Or do they tell you there's an area similar to a theater stage from which all sound seems to emanate? Speakers with good soundstaging, when properly set up, should do the later. The speakers themselves should seem to disappear, replaced instead by a three-dimensional spatial arrangement of music sources.

The size of the soundstage created by the speakers determines their ability reproduce different types of recordings with compelling realism. Speakers with a small soundstage may realistically reproduce the ambience of a live performance such as a jazz ensemble at a nightclub. But they may not be capable of conveying the sense of spaciousness needed to convince you that you've been transported to a large concert hall where an orchestra is performing.

Different speakers have different abilities to reproduce each of the dimensions (width, depth and height). For example, a pair of speakers may produce a very wide and tall soundstage but the sound may seem flat because the speakers have very limited ability to create a sense of depth.

The term imaging refers to the ability of the speakers to position individual sounds within the soundstage. When you close your eyes, can you tell where each musician was standing when the recording was made? Or do the vocals and instruments come from vague, fuzzy areas? With speakers that image well, the position of the voices and instruments should be easily identifiable at specific locations and shouldn't seem to move with variations in frequency.

The ability to soundstage and image properly are crucial to making speakers listenable for extended periods. This is because throughout our day-to-day living, our brains continuously work to match sounds our ears hear to their sources in the environment. Speakers use the way our ears deliver sound to trick our brains into thinking we are with the musicians in a location such as a studio or concert hall. When sounds are disassociated with their position and surrounding space due to poor imaging and soundstage, our brains work extra hard to try match the sounds to their sources. This can be quite tiring. Which leads to another audio term: listener fatigue. A set of speakers is "fatguing" when you find you can't listen to a them for more than a certain length of time. Though speakers can cause fatigue due to improper frequency reproduction (such as shrill highs or muddy bass), they can also be tiring even though there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the specific sounds they make. For example, the guitar or singer's vocals, or anything else, may sound just fine. But after listening for an hour or two of anything, you've just had enough.

Though soundstage and imaging vary from speaker to speaker, as Kexodusc pointed out, room acoustics and precise placement of the speakers in your room also has a dramatic effect on the way they sound. Think of a camera. No matter how expensive it is, a camera will never take a good picture as long as its lens is out of focus. Good room acoustics and proper positioning of speakers helps focus the sound and can make significant improvements to the size of their soundstage and ability to accurately image.

For example, a pair of speakers may have imaging that sounds precise on the left and right sides, but sounds fuzzy in the area between them. Angling the speakers toward each other a few degrees (toe-in) can improve the center image dramatically. But, it can also narrow the soundstage. Moving the speakers into the room and away from the back wall can increase soundstage depth. Tilting the speakers or placing them at a height where the tweeters are in line with your ears can, in many instances, improve both soundstage and imaging.

Good post, Prof. Lensman. I'm considering signing up for a seminar to be given at the HealthSouth center later this month. I'll pm you if I get to check out any audio shops in B'ham.

[dean_martin]

That's one thing I've always loved about my Paradigm Active 40's..the soundstage is amazingly wide and layered.

I've read a lot of good things about the Active 40's, but I've never heard them. Maybe a re-issue or anniversary edition would be appropriate.

[Quagmire]

Hi Q

Good post.

It might also be worth mentioning that imaging very much depend on phase relation between right and left speakers. By altering the phase relation [electrically] between two speakers, on can alter the imaging also. For example, we can alter the imaging (including placing them behind our head) by simply changing the phase relationship. That is how phantom center or surround sound is based on :)

Phase? PHASE! What in blazes are you talking about, Smokey? Have you even been paying attention? No man, phase ain't got nuttin' to do with it! Get with the program here. Am I gonna have to bust you down a belt ranking again, Smokey? Hehe

Of course, I'm kidding. Improper phase will definitely effect imaging and soundstage in an adverse way -- along with a slew of other audio pitfalls. Now..... what was it you were saying about an Impedance Switch?!!! Hehe

Thanks for replying to my post, Smoke. I don't get around to posting much here anymore. Somehow it seems like I've lost touch with the boards or that they've changed around me and the advice I have to give isn't as relevant. Just doesn't seem like the level of audio related chat that goes on here now is nearly what it used to be. Oh well, it's still a fun place to hang out. ;-)

Q

[Lensman]

Good post, Prof. Lensman. I'm considering signing up for a seminar to be given at the HealthSouth center later this month. I'll pm you if I get to check out any audio shops in B'ham.

Thanks, Dean. If you get the opportunity, look me up. BTW, I hope that's not a seminar on business accounting. ;)

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Thanks for replying to my post, Smoke. I don't get around to posting much here anymore. Somehow it seems like I've lost touch with the boards or that they've changed around me and the advice I have to give isn't as relevant. Just doesn't seem like the level of audio related chat that goes on here now is nearly what it used to be. Oh well, it's still a fun place to hang out. ;-)

Q

Well Mister, you should come around more often, and stir up the audio pot with your audio knowledge. I know what you mean though, I really miss the highly technical dicussions we used to have here. I used to learn so much from the exchanges I had with other "techno" heads like myself. You, Nick, Robert393, John from Canada, mean Doc Greene, the bear type dude Smokey, Adam(dang did I miss anyone??) used to have such interesting and informative dialog. The technical level of discussion certainly has changed much, but it is still pretty fun to assist where you can in a place you have called home for so long.