Going Auditioning...What Should I Take?

[Shwamdoo]

Hello,
I'm going to audition some equipment this weekend and was just wondering what albums you guys recommended for evaluating a stereo. I like to experiment with new music and I enjoy many different kinds. However, most Classical music doesn't really do it for me. Any suggestions as to what types of Classical music would be more down my alley (Rock, Jazz, Blues Etc...) and would also be great for auditioning stereos?

Also, what Rock, Jazz, and Blues albums would you suggest for auditioning? I have several in mind but I just wanted a bit of advice.

Thank You.

[Troy]

Bring the types of music YOU like that you will listen to on that system.

If you plan on listening to loud rock and soft acoustic music, bring both.

Bring music that you are really familiar with. That way you will know that album's subtlties and nuances.

Audition discs are a really personal thing. I mean, I can tell you that Yes's "Talk" album is about the most impeccable recording I've ever heard and that the album has a ton of dynamic range, so it's a great audition disc . . . but if you think that Yes is obnoxious, it's not gonna do ya much good!

Have fun and make sure you play it so loud that the salesman gets uncomfortable.

[DarrenH]

Take music you like and are familiar with. Don't bring a bunch of music you haven't heard or don't like or aren't familiar with. That won't help you.

Auditioning speakers with music you like and are familiar with will help guide you towards a satisfying decision.

My 2 cents.

Darren

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Bring music that you are really familiar with. That way you will know that album's subtlties and nuances.


Interesting article (http://www.audionote.co.uk/anp1.htm) on this very subject that presents a very different method. I am currently auditioning an amp and plan to use the method described in the article to help me make my final decision. The gist of the article: bring music you like and of varying types and recording qualities, but make it music you are not familiar with, (ie. if you like Lyle Lovett and usually bring a particular tune from Joshua Judges Ruth (an audiophile fav), bring something you like by Lovett but something you seldom listen to). Choose the component that hi-lights the differences in the recording and the music the most, as that component is the most accurate - assuming accuracy is the goal.

His argument against using familiar/reference recordings is quite interesting.

[newtrix1]

Hello,
I'm going to audition some equipment this weekend and was just wondering what albums you guys recommended for evaluating a stereo. I like to experiment with new music and I enjoy many different kinds. However, most Classical music doesn't really do it for me. Any suggestions as to what types of Classical music would be more down my alley (Rock, Jazz, Blues Etc...) and would also be great for auditioning stereos?

Also, what Rock, Jazz, and Blues albums would you suggest for auditioning? I have several in mind but I just wanted a bit of advice.

Thank You.

This a recording from the 60's, but man it's outstanding. There's a 20 bit Verve remaster (probably the only version you'll find nowaday's). Track 6 "You Look Good to Me" starts with an upright bass being played with a bow (that's what it sounds like to me anyhow), then the piano comes in and there's also some type of bell. I heard this song played on a pair of Legacy Focus speakers and it left goosebumps. The deep notes of the upright bass need a really good low end to play "properly" without sounding bloated or fuzzy. The piano is supposedly a challenging instrument for speakers to recreate and it's an instrument most of us have heard in real life so you can judge the accuracy.
Oh, by the way, the music on "We Get Requests" is great (if you like piano based jazz), so you won't need to throw it away after your audition ;) .


good luck,

Rick

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Hey Rick, sounds great, I like O-Pete and I have "We Get Requests" on vinyl but I've never listened to it all that much...once or twice maybe, and I'm not familiar with the song you reference. Mind if I use it in my big showdown audition? (see post and article above).

[Troy]

Interesting article (http://www.audionote.co.uk/anp1.htm) on this very subject that presents a very different method. I am currently auditioning an amp and plan to use the method described in the article to help me make my final decision. The gist of the article: bring music you like and of varying types and recording qualities, but make it music you are not familiar with, (ie. if you like Lyle Lovett and usually bring a particular tune from Joshua Judges Ruth (an audiophile fav), bring something you like by Lovett but something you seldom listen to). Choose the component that hi-lights the differences in the recording and the music the most, as that component is the most accurate - assuming accuracy is the goal.

His argument against using familiar/reference recordings is quite interesting.

Yowser, what a long-winded, esoteric, overwritten blather-fest! It's so ironic that the writer talks about listening fatigue when what I'm really suffereing from is READING fatigue from that piece. Did he really say "methodological treason"? LOL.

I kinda see it in the context that you are conditioned to hearing familiar songs in a certain way and that your emotional response to the songs may cloud your response to the equipment, but I think for most people that DON'T audition stereos for a living, "comparison by reference" is the way to go.

Conditioned response fatigue is far less important than something like having a slight cold, or if you are aggitated cuz someone cut you off int he parking lot, or if you had a cocktail, when you go to reference the gear. All these things will color your frame of reference far more than the minutia outlined in that essay.

If you are going to be listening to Ted Nugent on the thing, bring Ted. Don't bring a high-fi equivalent of Ted (does that exist?) that you're not as likely to listen to when you get the hi-fi home.

Bring what you listen to. If you are not going to be lisening to hi-fi recordings most of the time anyway, why overbuy? To some people, "coulorised, sanitized sound" is what they like. Some people like a brassy sound, some like more midrange sensitivity, some people put everything in the *thump*. Bring music that reflects the type of sound YOU enjoy.

But that's just me.

[newtrix1]

Hey Rick, sounds great, I like O-Pete and I have "We Get Requests" on vinyl but I've never listened to it all that much...once or twice maybe, and I'm not familiar with the song you reference. Mind if I use it in my big showdown audition? (see post and article above).

...permission granted? :) Btw, I checked the album and I had the track # correct (6), but the song title wrong. The song I described is actually called "You Look Good to Me". I edited my original post to correct it.

[Pat D]

Hello,
I'm going to audition some equipment this weekend and was just wondering what albums you guys recommended for evaluating a stereo. I like to experiment with new music and I enjoy many different kinds. However, most Classical music doesn't really do it for me. Any suggestions as to what types of Classical music would be more down my alley (Rock, Jazz, Blues Etc...) and would also be great for auditioning stereos?

Also, what Rock, Jazz, and Blues albums would you suggest for auditioning? I have several in mind but I just wanted a bit of advice.

Thank You.
You will certainly want male and female vocals. For female vocals I sometimes use Diana Krall or Patricia Barber, and for male vocals, Roger Whittaker or Dire Straits "On Every Street," but there are many other recordings that will do.

However, for the overall smoothness and balance of a speaker I find some thickly scored classical music with orchestra and chorus can be very useful. I always start out with full orchestra with massed strings; male and female vocals; mixed chorus; and piano.

[Dusty Chalk]

I agree with what everyone else is saying. Why would you audition equipment with classical music if you're not going to listen to classical music?

That said, if you want to get into classical music, listen to Pat D. He usually knows what he's talking about when it comes to classical music.

What I do:

I make sure I bring some complex music, because a lot of systems can't handle complex music, so that's a really good test for me. Two standouts are Nine Inch Nails' Broken EP and Darkest Days by Stabbing Westward.

I also make sure that I bring music that covers the entire frequency spectrum. The highs are usually pretty easily covered (although CD maxes out a bit early, so vinyl or one of the other high-res formats if possible), so that means bass. My bass test track (album) is Silence is Sexy by Einstürzende Neubauten. There are other good ones. The good thing about the Neubauten disk is that if the bass is bloated on the system at all, it totally wipes out the rest of the recording, and just sounds way too bass heavy, so it quickly falls into many traps.

Transients are another one -- make sure it's a recording that has some good transients on the original recording, and hasn't been phase-smeared to death. I like the SACD of Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells, although be wary of the highs -- SACD has some funny stuff going on in the extreme high frequencies. Don't necessarily trust them WRT "air".

Vocals are important -- if you listen to vocal music, vocals are a dead giveaway for many a bad system, because they are so harmonically rich, their "correctness" is usually obvious...or the incorrectness is obvious by its absence.

Chimes are another good one, just because they usually trip the ol' Intermodulation Distortion -o'-meter. Wouldn't mind hearing some good recommendations on some good chime or bell music.

I completely disagree with that Audio Note article -- hogwash! How do you know if the recording is at fault or the equipment if you're not familiar with it? It sounds like a psychological trick -- "hey, bring music you will like..." becomes "hey, I like this, it must be the system, not the music...".

[Kaboom]

definately take what u enjoy listening to. I read that esoteric article, and i think that his hypothesis of the most accurate system being the best one is fundamentally flawed. The best system is the one that makes your recordings sound how you like'em best. If you basically disagree with the engineer who mixed your fave album, and all your stereo does is bring up what he mixed, you are screwed...
I suggest u take albums you REALLY like. and take a variety, but dont take sth u know u wont listen to later on.
and and if you are a vinyl junkie, take sth which is slightly worn (not trashed, just worn) so u can appreciate how that system bring out the defects in the pressings. (i was terribly let down upon listening to my first HiFi playing "a momentary lapse of reason", i knew it was worn, but that system made it sound as it had been extensively played with a 20 gram pickup)

[Finch Platte]

...take the Sounds Of Heavy Construction Equipment disc that you got from Popular Mechanics mag. Try that first for a minute, then put in the disc you got from Hustler magazine- you know the one, the Sounds Of Orgasms? Crank it, and see how long it lasts before the salesperson turns it down. Vocals are very important when analyzing a new system.

Then, take a beer out of the cooler you brought (you did bring a cooler to the audition, right?). Take out a 16# hammer, set your beer on top of the amp and start to tap on the gear, telling the dude you're just seeing how dependable the equipment is, because you "have kids, and you know how kids are." Start with light taps and pay special attention to the glass on the front of the amp. This will probably be a fairly quick aspect of the test.

Now, if you've still got both arms free, you're gonna want to find out how durable the fabric is on the front of the speakers. Grab the t-ball stand and bat and set it up exactly 8.5 feet in front the right speaker. Throw away the plastic ball that came with the t-ball setup, and out of the cooler, grab the cyclinder of Pillsbury cookie dough (with chocolate chips- this is a very crucial aspect of the test). Pop it, and mold the cookie dough into a ball. Don't be too critical of the roundness, as you probably don't have a whole lot of time. Set the dough ball on the tee, and take a few warmup swings. This will show the salesperson you're serious about the test. If he makes a sudden move towards you, waggle the bat over your head in a clockwise circle, and step towards him menacingly. This should grant you a few extra seconds to conclude the most critical aspect of your test.

Point to the right speaker and say, "this one's for you, Nana" and then gesture to various places around the room where you think the bulk of the chips might land. This is the least scientific part of the test, but it always impresses salespeople. It's not hard to guess where some of the chips are going to go, as there are usually 37-53 chips in a 4" diameter ball, so you'll have a bit of leeway.

Ok, now- swing for the fence! After you swing, look around for a place to set the bat down. I guarantee the saleperson will be more than happy to hold the bat for you. Hell, he'll probably hand it off to his manager and it will be quickly removed from the room, no doubt to be mounted on a plaque later. Approach the right speaker and see if the grille was able to withstand the force of the cookie dough. I've found only about 17% of the grilles will pass this part of the test. The important part is, did the drivers make it? If they are some sort of space-age plastic, chances are good. Paper cones usually fail miserably.

I think that's about it. You should know by now if this is the system you want in your home. If not, move on to the next store. If the salesperson is talking excitedly on the phone and glancing your way nervously, again, you probably don't have much time. Grab your cooler, wave your thanks and make your exit.

Hope this helped.

fp

[Shwamdoo]

...take the Sounds Of Heavy Construction Equipment disc that you got from Popular Mechanics mag. Try that first for a minute, then put in the disc you got from Hustler magazine- you know the one, the Sounds Of Orgasms? Crank it, and see how long it lasts before the salesperson turns it down. Vocals are very important when analyzing a new system.

Then, take a beer out of the cooler you brought (you did bring a cooler to the audition, right?). Take out a 16# hammer, set your beer on top of the amp and start to tap on the gear, telling the dude you're just seeing how dependable the equipment is, because you "have kids, and you know how kids are." Start with light taps and pay special attention to the glass on the front of the amp. This will probably be a fairly quick aspect of the test.

Now, if you've still got both arms free, you're gonna want to find out how durable the fabric is on the front of the speakers. Grab the t-ball stand and bat and set it up exactly 8.5 feet in front the right speaker. Throw away the plastic ball that came with the t-ball setup, and out of the cooler, grab the cyclinder of Pillsbury cookie dough (with chocolate chips- this is a very crucial aspect of the test). Pop it, and mold the cookie dough into a ball. Don't be too critical of the roundness, as you probably don't have a whole lot of time. Set the dough ball on the tee, and take a few warmup swings. This will show the salesperson you're serious about the test. If he makes a sudden move towards you, waggle the bat over your head in a clockwise circle, and step towards him menacingly. This should grant you a few extra seconds to conclude the most critical aspect of your test.

Point to the right speaker and say, "this one's for you, Nana" and then gesture to various places around the room where you think the bulk of the chips might land. This is the least scientific part of the test, but it always impresses salespeople. It's not hard to guess where some of the chips are going to go, as there are usually 37-53 chips in a 4" diameter ball, so you'll have a bit of leeway.

Ok, now- swing for the fence! After you swing, look around for a place to set the bat down. I guarantee the saleperson will be more than happy to hold the bat for you. Hell, he'll probably hand it off to his manager and it will be quickly removed from the room, no doubt to be mounted on a plaque later. Approach the right speaker and see if the grille was able to withstand the force of the cookie dough. I've found only about 17% of the grilles will pass this part of the test. The important part is, did the drivers make it? If they are some sort of space-age plastic, chances are good. Paper cones usually fail miserably.

I think that's about it. You should know by now if this is the system you want in your home. If not, move on to the next store. If the salesperson is talking excitedly on the phone and glancing your way nervously, again, you probably don't have much time. Grab your cooler, wave your thanks and make your exit.

Hope this helped.

fp
Sounds like a plan.

[Dusty Chalk]

Now, if you've still got both arms free...This is my favourite part.

[newtrix1]

...then gesture to various places around the room where you think the bulk of the chips might land. This is the least scientific part of the test, but it always impresses salespeople. It's not hard to guess where some of the chips are going to go, as there are usually 37-53 chips in a 4" diameter ball, so you'll have a bit of leeway.



fp
I always wondered what they were talking about when they discussed speaker "dispersion". Thanks Finch!

[Mr MidFi]

Well-recorded tracks with excellent tone, precision, dynamic range, etc. are great...for finding the loser.

If I have it narrowed down to 3 or 4 choices or so, I use demo tracks to find the weakest one. (BTW, the song "Killer" from Seal's recent Best Of collection works well for this purpose). It's sort of a stress test to see which ones can't rise to the challenge. But once I have it down to A vs. B, I play my favorites that I actually listen to most frequently to pick the WINNER.

But that's just me.

[Pat D]

I agree with what everyone else is saying. Why would you audition equipment with classical music if you're not going to listen to classical music?

That said, if you want to get into classical music, listen to Pat D. He usually knows what he's talking about when it comes to classical music.

What I do:

I make sure I bring some complex music, because a lot of systems can't handle complex music, so that's a really good test for me. Two standouts are Nine Inch Nails' Broken EP and Darkest Days by Stabbing Westward.

I also make sure that I bring music that covers the entire frequency spectrum. The highs are usually pretty easily covered (although CD maxes out a bit early, so vinyl or one of the other high-res formats if possible), so that means bass. My bass test track (album) is Silence is Sexy by Einstürzende Neubauten. There are other good ones. The good thing about the Neubauten disk is that if the bass is bloated on the system at all, it totally wipes out the rest of the recording, and just sounds way too bass heavy, so it quickly falls into many traps.

Transients are another one -- make sure it's a recording that has some good transients on the original recording, and hasn't been phase-smeared to death. I like the SACD of Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells, although be wary of the highs -- SACD has some funny stuff going on in the extreme high frequencies. Don't necessarily trust them WRT "air".

Vocals are important -- if you listen to vocal music, vocals are a dead giveaway for many a bad system, because they are so harmonically rich, their "correctness" is usually obvious...or the incorrectness is obvious by its absence.

Chimes are another good one, just because they usually trip the ol' Intermodulation Distortion -o'-meter. Wouldn't mind hearing some good recommendations on some good chime or bell music.

I completely disagree with that Audio Note article -- hogwash! How do you know if the recording is at fault or the equipment if you're not familiar with it? It sounds like a psychological trick -- "hey, bring music you will like..." becomes "hey, I like this, it must be the system, not the music...".
I guess my main thought is that it is easier to hear what a speaker does with complex music. I don't know enough rock music to be able to suggest many rock recordings. I can only say what I do. It is something of a quandary when trying to suggest something for a person who likes rock. I as also reather hurried, as given the time I could have thought of some jazz recordings.

I have great difficulties trying to figure out how to apply the Audio Note method of comparison. Every recording sounds different, so I have to figure out just what differences are relevant and Peter Q. doesn't tell me that, so I find his article is not much help. As well, just sounding different with various recordings is no guarantee of accuracy.

If I read Peter Q.'s questions with some care, I can easily answer "No" to all of them, because if I do anything differently than is stated, that's the proper answer.

I certainly have some core recordings for auditions that have worked well for me over the years. These are ones which tend to sound different on different speakers. This gives me some consistency and since I know the recordings well, I tend to notice the details of the sound. As well, there is no use buying speakers which don't sound good with my recordings.

However, as Dr. Floyd Toole has pointed out, recordings are made with various microphones, monitor speakers, and other equipment and we audition them with various other speakers. As well, we very seldom know what the original performance sounded like. Yet we then use the recordings to evaluate loudspeakers. He calls it a "
circle of confusion."

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/Loudspeakers&RoomsPt2.pdf

Anyway, it is quite possible to be biased by one's own equipment and one's own recordings. So, I listen to a variety of recordings and and try to find speakers that sound good with most of them. This has worked well for me and I don't have to change speakers very often. It works so well that I still like my previous main speakers, the old Kef 104aB and the Quad ESL-63, even though I think our PSB Stratus Minis work better in our present living room. So it seems I have managed to avoid "audio hell" with Peter Qvortrup's help!

Once we have the speakers, the circle goes round again, and we often evaluate recordings using them. We may often find that our evaluation of them changes, not only the sound but sometimes even the performance. I certainly have. For example, I now find that a number of earlier Naxos recordings have better sound I thought they did before listening to them on my new speakers.

[Dusty Chalk]

As well, we very seldom know what the original performance sounded like.I agree with the fundamental premise of the "circle of confusion", and yet, I don't think it's impossible to audition equipment based on our admittedly limited knowledge.

I mean, we all know what a human voice sounds like. We should know what a snare drum sounds like, too. As well as most "normal" orchestral instruments.

We do what we can with what limited information we have.

I know people who go to live shows all the time, because that is their reference point.

Also, because there's nothing quite like live music.