Found out my speakers are crap! Which channel to change?

[Kaiser Sosze]

Well after being a little new and spending some time on here for help on purchasing a new receiver which was successful, I did some research and found out that my front L/R speakers are crap. Now I have never heard the difference between quality speakers and crap. I do know their is a difference, and if I enjoy what I have now, it urks me to think it could be alot better now that I have a new 7.1 receiver to install.

What I have are Acoustic Image 6.5 mini tower speakers. The prince of white van speakers. I bought them when I was young and ignorant ,
Anyway they have a frequency response of 45Hz to20kHz
Dual 6" woofers and 25mm tweeter
And Nominal Impedence 6 Ohm
( I don't know what any of that means)

I wasn't going to change them , but I read some posts that they're cheap and its bugging me. But I don't know the difference for what I need in the different speakers out there. I have a 15x22ft room. what's the difference of those front channels that are small compared to the 2 1/2 ft size that I have now. Will small bookshelf speakers suit my needs very well for HT? For example, I look at those Bose swiveling cube speakers and wonder what kind of sound a little thing can put out. My rear and side surrond are cheap RCA from Radio shack, but I'm assuming that the front are more important to change to see a difference.
Sorry for the long post, speaker knowledge is my lowest in HT

Thanks
KS

[Woochifer]

The front three speakers are the most important, so focus your listening on those speakers. You pretty much need to start from the very beginning, round up a set of your favorite CDs and DVDs, and start visiting stores and trying things out. Once you've listened to a few speakers, you should have a better idea of the type of sound you prefer.

With white van speakers, the specs are false, so I wouldn't put any value on them.

If you decide to go with bookshelf speakers, just make sure that they are capable of extending down to the crossover frequency used in your receiver (usually around 80 Hz). Small cubes like the Bose systems cannot extend that far, but most decent bookshelf speakers can do this. How far down the bass needs to extend will depend on whether you intend to buy a subwoofer, and what your preferences are. In general, floorstanding speakers have deeper low extension, but they are also more prone to compromised imaging, cabinet resonance, and uneven tonal balance in general.

[gonefishin]

Hi Kaiser :)


First things first. If your currently enjoying your system, please don't stop on our account! (The collective "our") ;) It sounds like your above driving age...so get driving! Find out where some audio retailers are in your area...pack a lunch...and drive. Hit everything you can think of...Best Buy, Tweeter...then make sure you go to some "boutique" type stores in your area. They may be carrying brands that you think are out of your price range...but this will still expose you to what's out there. Also, many of the brands do offer some nice entry level pieces.


and again...if your happy...just have fun listening to what's out there.



have fun!

dan

[Kaiser Sosze]

Ok cool I'll have to find out what around me and listen. I have a 10" Subwoofer already that gives me all I need, So I guess I can downsize. I've been reading bang for your buck recommendations in other threads and will look out for those models.

Are these acceptable for side surround ( I got them for $10 from radio shack, they reatiled for $80)
RCA 4" paper cone woofer
1" soft dome tweeter
100 watts max, 50 watts rms
wide 90-20,000 freq response
8 Ohms Nom Imp
They were practicaly free , but I have a problem of wanting only good stuff even if I can't afford it
BTW I just purchased an Onkyo TX- SR702 that I will be hooking up in a couple of weeks, if that makes a difference in my speaker selection

Thanks also, I do not have any friends who are into any of my hobbies, they are all newlyweds interersted in serving their new wives, who do not undestand HT :(

[gonefishin]

Thanks also, I do not have any friends who are into any of my hobbies, they are all newlyweds interersted in serving their new wives, who do not undestand HT :(


Just make sure your considerate of your friends needs as well. Because who knows...one of the their wives may have a nice sister or friend they could introduce you to ;)


have fun!

[Urloony]

with a nice big room like you have you may want to get some good size main speakers. If you're at all handy you may want to take a stab at building your own. There are plenty of books on the topic and you may find out what all those specs mean. It really isn't too hard and you can save a boatload of money. There are also speaker kits available, which basically means you have to screw the drivers in to the box and solder it up, but you save about $500. You may want to find that out anyway so you know a little more about what you're looking for. madisound.com and amazon have great book selections. I might add that you're probably better off sticking with 8 ohm speakers all around for your surround system.

[f0rge]

the mains are the most important, the surrounds are far less important unless all you do is watch movies really loud. i'm also guilty of having crappy surrounds, mostly because i feel money can be better spent on other aspects of my system, and i listen to music way more than i watch movies

[Kaiser Sosze]

with a nice big room like you have you may want to get some good size main speakers. If you're at all handy you may want to take a stab at building your own. There are plenty of books on the topic and you may find out what all those specs mean. It really isn't too hard and you can save a boatload of money. There are also speaker kits available, which basically means you have to screw the drivers in to the box and solder it up, but you save about $500. You may want to find that out anyway so you know a little more about what you're looking for. madisound.com and amazon have great book selections. I might add that you're probably better off sticking with 8 ohm speakers all around for your surround system.

Never thought of that, I have all the tools and skills necessary to do this, But instaed of building a box, couldn't I just reuse the one I have now and swap out the speakers?

[Worf101]

Never thought of that, I have all the tools and skills necessary to do this, But instaed of building a box, couldn't I just reuse the one I have now and swap out the speakers?

Those White Van speakers have the flimsiest boxes going. Putting Dynaudio or Scanspeak drivers in your old speakers would be like putting a Jag V-12 in a Yugo, it just don't make sense. If you're gonna home build there are plenty of sites around that sell kits that are far and away superior to what you're talking about doing. Please don't do anything with those Vans but burn them or Garage Sale them.

Da Worfster
:o

[dean_martin]

.

What I have are Acoustic Image 6.5 mini tower speakers. The prince of white van speakers. I bought them when I was young and ignorant ,


Hey KS, it can happen to anybody. Geez, my little brother bought a pair of white van speakers (on the street, right out of the van) when he first moved out to LA. I felt somewhat responsible because I never schooled him in this hobby. He left them in LA with his old roommate, so I've never actually seen them and in fact have never seen "white van" speakers. So you at least have experienced something that many back woods country bumpkins like myself never will (until we go to the big city).

Anyhow, on to your quest for better sound. Take it in steps. I prefer bookshelf/standmount speakers because I'm cheap and you can get more audiophile attributes at a lower price point. Mostly, you're giving up bass extension. But, the size of your room may benefit from floorstanders. Pick your main L&R (front) speakers first. A decent pair of floorstanders that extend down to at least 35-40 Hz might set you back $1200-1700. Next, you may want to fill in the lowest bass from movie soundtracks with a subwoofer. Then get your matching center and surrounds. Here's an example:

Paradigm Studio 60s for front L&R
Subwoofer from HSU or SVS (around $500, but you can go higher with a B&W or something)
Paradigm's studio center
Paradigm Studio 20s (bookshelf) for surrounds

Pick a floorstander you like, but also listen to the center and surrounds from the same series because you might be adding them later. The surrounds don't have to be designed soley for surround duty. You can put together a nice system with 4 Studio 20s, for example. (The only reason I'm using Paradigm is because I remember their model #s, but you can also listen to B&W's 600 series and tons of others.) There's nothing wrong with going with 4 bookshelf speakers for fronts and surrounds (unless they're Bose cubes). You just might have to get your subwoofer a little sooner.

The only caveat I see is that it is possible that a series (like Paradigm's studios) could be discontinued or dramatically changed/revised before you're able to get the center and surrounds.

You can get more bang for your buck in the long run if you take it in steps. The biggest improvement I got for movies was adding a subwoofer to my front bookshelf speakers.

[Kaiser Sosze]

Those White Van speakers have the flimsiest boxes going. Putting Dynaudio or Scanspeak drivers in your old speakers would be like putting a Jag V-12 in a Yugo, it just don't make sense. If you're gonna home build there are plenty of sites around that sell kits that are far and away superior to what you're talking about doing. Please don't do anything with those Vans but burn them or Garage Sale them.

Da Worfster
:o

lol if you say so, They're heavy as hell, I thought they were good for that reason, its why I bought them.

Anyway I think I found something in my new budget ,theAxiom M3 (http://www.axiomaudio.com/m3ti.html) seem to be about what I'm looking for.

[umapet97]

I second what Dean_Martin posted.
I encourage you to check out Miller and Kreisels line of speakers and subs.
They dont skimp on sound even at "entry level".

[Kaiser Sosze]

Ok Dean

I will look into those, from what I'm getting from everybody is, take it slow, save a little extra cash since it's worth it when it comes to speakers.

I have a Sub that is doing a decent job , it shakes everything, if thats a good sign, I purchased a Bose VC10 centerchannel not too long ago. So I just got dooped on the mains.

I just have to find some HT stores that have any of these brands

I just looked at MK line and thought they looked good, thanks for the heads up

I just now looked at the Paradigms, the studio 20 which are small are $800 a pair I would guess I would need at least the 60 (couldn't find a price), I keep seeing extra weeks of saving being added to my purchase date, damn :rolleyes:

[royphil345]

Don't buy new speakers because other people don't think much of the ones you have. I've seen a couple models of "White Van" speakers. (My brother's friend just bought some a couple weeks ago... lol) They seem to be built better than some of the cheaper speakers at the electronics stores. The drivers look decent. They have actual crossover networks, with actual choke coils for the woofers and mids. Have seen store-bought speakers with worse crossovers and parts. The only bad part of the deal seems to be that the buyer thinks he bought something much better. I guess some people totally fall for the scam and pay way too much :(

They definitely won't sound high-end. Think they compare with any other tower speaker at the price they usually sell for though. If you desire more realistic sound than they're capable of, then upgrade.

Was extremely funny when we went to the bank machine the other day in my brother's white mini-van. And he said to his friend, "Feel familiar?".

[axelsrd]

KS, I think the Axiom option you mentioned may be a good place to start. That doesn't mean you shouldn't go listen to other speakers...B&W, Klipsch, KEF, Infinity, Polk..etc. You may even find something you like on eBay. As for the Axioms, If I recall, they offer 30 day money back, so at least you have 30 days to listen and return if you don't like. Not many companies out there that will do that.
One thing I have learned and I learned the HARD way. Find a speaker that does well with music. A speaker that does well with music will do well with HT. A speaker that does well for HT may NOT (generally not) do well for music.
Oh, by the way, your Onkyo 702 is a fine receiver and will handle whatever you end up with. You have read alot of differing opinions here. The hard thing to do is try not to let one opinion dominate your search. Listen to everything you can. Don't be in a hurry. Take youe time. Afterall, it's YOUR hard earned money you are spending, not mine/ours.

Good luck

[Worf101]

lol if you say so, They're heavy as hell, I thought they were good for that reason, its why I bought them.

Anyway I think I found something in my new budget ,theAxiom M3 (http://www.axiomaudio.com/m3ti.html) seem to be about what I'm looking for.

Don't confuse "heavy" with "rigid". Sometimes weight is a measure of speakers rigidity sometimes it's just lead shot and heavy old-school magnets on the drivers. Cabinet rigidity is what prevents the speaker from walking, rattling and coloring the sound with imperfections that are inherent in using a hollow box to hold a speaker. Superior speakers use dense materials with much crossbracing to limit sympathetic vibrations and other acousitc problems. I'm not the resident expert Wooch is but I know flimsy when I see's it.

Da Worfster :o

[dean_martin]

BTW, KS, your avatar/pic is most impressive, but(t) a bit distracting. That bronze finish looks more like it came from Miami than NY.

[Kaiser Sosze]

Yeah Worfster , they have big magnets in them, didn't know about the rigity though

Thanks guys! The last 2 weeks I've been reading and my mine is flooded with info each day! And each day I get more confused and exhausted.The less simple things become...... Their is way more out there than I imagined. so many brands that are good. What did I get myself into, with my other hobbies , I'm used to a smaller selection :(

Problem is , I've been visiting the websites, which some have prices, and hitting the dealer locator, and their are no stores around me or easy to get to, and most of them are installers it looks like, so I suppose they don't keep an inventory for sampling.But I would like to hear how the sound improves as you step it up. I'm not familiar with what local HT stores prices are compared to the Brand online direct sales. Are you paying sticker price online? I would suppose so, its like that with everything
I'm sure anything I get will be noticably better than what I have.

Thanks for any info you have to offer

Dean,
yes its inspiring to look at

[axelsrd]

Yeah Worfster , they have big magnets in them, didn't know about the rigity though

Thanks guys! The last 2 weeks I've been reading and my mine is flooded with info each day! And each day I get more confused and exhausted.The less simple things become...... Their is way more out there than I imagined. so many brands that are good. What did I get myself into, with my other hobbies , I'm used to a smaller selection :(

Problem is , I've been visiting the websites, which some have prices, and hitting the dealer locator, and their are no stores around me or easy to get to, and most of them are installers it looks like, so I suppose they don't keep an inventory for sampling.But I would like to hear how the sound improves as you step it up. I'm not familiar with what local HT stores prices are compared to the Brand online direct sales. Are you paying sticker price online? I would suppose so, its like that with everything
I'm sure anything I get will be noticably better than what I have.

Thanks for any info you have to offer

Dean,
yes its inspiring to look at

You will pay sticker price at the HT stores...most likely. Depending on what brand you choose, you might find some deals from online retailers. You might try audiogon.com for used. They are particular about they're equipment so you should find some well taken care of speakers. And again, from what I have read, the Axiom speaker gets very good reviews and they are reasonably priced.

[Kaiser Sosze]

Oh no!
I knew I shouldn't have but I did.
I looked up some reviews of my sub. :eek: What the hell does muddy as a monster truck pull mean? RCA Pro SW100p (http://reviews.iwon.com/pscAudioReview/Optimus/PRD_120276_2741crx.aspx) I thought I had a pretty sweet setup :rolleyes: What you don't know can't hurt you I guess. I had a hookup in Radioshack who was giving 30% off on stuff at the time. It has knob to adjust the frequency from 50-200. Is their a normal position that you guys use or is it dependent upon the system capabilities?

[royphil345]

Depends mostly on how your sub is hooked up. If it's hooked up to the line-level sub out jack on the back of your receiver, it's probably best to leave it turned all the way up to 200 and use the receiver's built-in bass management to control the speaker/sub crossover. Though, if you find a setting that sounds better to you, that's what counts.

[astravitz]

KS you live in right next to Manhattan that has a collection of some of the best audio stores in the world. I should know, I've been to all of them. Don't waste your time at J&R, Best Buy or Circut City.

I recommend the following stores:

Harvey's Electronics

Cosmophonic Sound Inc. 1622 First Avenue New York, NY 10028-417 212-734-0459

Lyric Hi-Fi, Inc. / 1221 Lexington Avenue / New York NY 10028 / 212-439-1900
URL http://www.lyricusa.com

Park Avenue Audio / 425 Park Avenue South / New York NY 10016 / 212-685-8101
URL http://www.parkavenueaudio.com

Sound by Singer / 18 East 16th Street / New York NY 10003 / 212-924-8600
URL http://www.soundbysinger.com


Stereo Exchange Inc. / 627 Broadway / New York NY 10012 / 212-505-1111
URL http://www.stereoexchange.com

INNOVATIVE AUDIO / 150 EAST 58TH ST. / NEW YORK , NY 10155 /212 634-4444
Web Site: www.innovativeaudiovideo.com

You will find an extensive range of speakers and price ranges. Some of them also cary Rotel & Arcam Receivers - Check out the new AVR300 it looks to be promising.

If you don't want to spend a fortune on a complete 5.1 HT then go to:
https://dmc-electronics.com/Default.htm
PSB CONCERT THEATER SYSTEM (Image 4T, Image 1B, Image 8C & Subsonic 6)
For only $1129- you'll have a complete set that will rock your world.

PS What's up with the avatar (picture)? I need to visit SI more.
PSB CONCERT THEATER SYSTEM

[Kaiser Sosze]

KS you live in right next to Manhattan that has a collection of some of the best audio stores in the world. I should know, I've been to all of them. Don't waste your time at J&R, Best Buy or Circut City.

I recommend the following stores:

Harvey's Electronics

Cosmophonic Sound Inc. 1622 First Avenue New York, NY 10028-417 212-734-0459

Lyric Hi-Fi, Inc. / 1221 Lexington Avenue / New York NY 10028 / 212-439-1900
URL http://www.lyricusa.com

Park Avenue Audio / 425 Park Avenue South / New York NY 10016 / 212-685-8101
URL http://www.parkavenueaudio.com

Sound by Singer / 18 East 16th Street / New York NY 10003 / 212-924-8600
URL http://www.soundbysinger.com


Stereo Exchange Inc. / 627 Broadway / New York NY 10012 / 212-505-1111
URL http://www.stereoexchange.com

INNOVATIVE AUDIO / 150 EAST 58TH ST. / NEW YORK , NY 10155 /212 634-4444
Web Site: www.innovativeaudiovideo.com

You will find an extensive range of speakers and price ranges. Some of them also cary Rotel & Arcam Receivers - Check out the new AVR300 it looks to be promising.

If you don't want to spend a fortune on a complete 5.1 HT then go to:
https://dmc-electronics.com/Default.htm
PSB CONCERT THEATER SYSTEM (Image 4T, Image 1B, Image 8C & Subsonic 6)
For only $1129- you'll have a complete set that will rock your world.

PS What's up with the avatar (picture)? I need to visit SI more.
PSB CONCERT THEATER SYSTEM


Ooooh! thanks for the store info, I've been calling some places and they don't have showrooms, just contractors, I was planning to take a visit to Innovative to look at some B&M 601's, but now I might make a few stops (Its going to cost me more in parking than a speaker pair lol)

I was just plannig to upgrade the mains, but now I want to change everything

( I just looked at that PSB package, seems like alot for the price)

[This Guy]

i dont understand. You should be able to figure out that u have a bad setup by listening to it, not by what a bunch of people on the internet say is crap. Are you looking to spend money or something? I mean if you think what you got is pretty good, why the hell would you get something else?

[Kaiser Sosze]

i dont understand. You should be able to figure out that u have a bad setup by listening to it, not by what a bunch of people on the internet say is crap. Are you looking to spend money or something? I mean if you think what you got is pretty good, why the hell would you get something else?


I have never heard anything else before, and still really haven't. I recently listen to my buddy's HT in a box and think it sounds like crap compared to mine. And mine is low quality it must sound like crap to most of your setups.
I do have hole in my pocket problem, but that isn't it, I just don't want to miss out, when one of my favorite things to do is to watch a good action/scifi movie. Might as well make it the best possible expirience as I can

[CharlieBee]

Think Used, Cheap and Vintage.

Find yourself a nice pair of highly rated by this forum, vintage JBL L-100's or better still Pioneer HPM-100's. The current black painted speakers that will equal these will cost thousands.

Check the newspaper want ads, and ebay if you have to. A few hundred dollars ought to do it. And you will get real walnut vineer to boot that may make the wife happier too.

Charlie