Is she really THAT talentless...

[Worf101]

I know it's like talking about a sonic Tsunami but I just did a redux of Ms. Simpson's sonic suicides on both Saturday Night Live and at the FedEx Orange Bowl... My God... she makes Milli Vanilli sound like the Three Tenors. My Gawd... what a debacle. I must say however that the SNL faux pax had to be an "inside job".. She musta pissed on the head of one sound tech too many and he/she decided that revenge is a dish best served "Live". So they rolled the vocal of the first tune while the band played the second. And the band, who was playing live just kept a churnin' while she twisted in the ether... priceless... simply priceless.

I guess she decided to prove us all wrong and sing live the next time she was on TV. Big mistake that was like Custer seeking out the Souix for a rematch. NOT a good idea. The cascade of boo's at the end was deafening... I hope that's the end of that tune. Fabian, New Kids on the Block and rest of the PreFabs must be laughing up their collective sleeves...

Da Worfster :cool:

[MindGoneHaywire]

She sang a couple of nights after SNL. I only heard a snippet but it sure sounded like she can't sing at all. I didn't hear any of the halftime show, didn't even know she was going to be on it.

I have her album & I think there are some halfway decent tunes on it. It does seem like anything I happen to like about it likely has nothing to do with her; she may or may not have made the musical or lyrical contributions she's credited with. Obviously a lot was done in the studio to process her vocal tracks. It doesn't matter. I still think the tunes are decent. Not great, nothing I'd reach for all that often, but hardly terrible. If you can separate this piece of work from what she has come to represent in terms of a lack of talent, it's not horrible. Hardly a ringing endorsement, but I've sure heard worse & I actually got some enjoyment out of the thing.

I won't be going to see her perform, though, that's for sure.

[MasterCylinder]

"My Gawd... what a debacle. I must say however that the SNL faux pax had to be an "inside job".. She musta pissed on the head of one sound tech too many and he/she decided that revenge is a dish best served "Live". So they rolled the vocal of the first tune while the band played the second."


Worf.................these things are easily accomplished in these days of modern technology........the sound engineer only has to max out the "suck" knob on the sound board.

Kind of like pissing off the waiter and he spits in your food in the back room !


When will these pompous celebrities ever learn ?
HAHAHAHA

[jasn]

As bad as the poor girl is, I feel like the real crime over her SNL lip-sync debacle is the "outrage" and publicity it has recieved from the media. SNL is sacred? Pul-eeez! They sold out years ago, and their claim that no one else is doing it is pure BS too. Watched a Super Bowl halftime show in the past 5 years? How about a National Anthem performance extraveganza? Pop stars have been lip-syncing since before Dick Clark got his first forehead lift.

IMO, if it weren't for this non-stop campaign of false horror going on I don't think the crowd at the OB stadium would have dissed her either. They were given a free pass to do so by the establishment weeks ago. It's like the Romans doing "Thumbs Down" for the Christians.back in the good old gladiator days.

Couple this abomination with the realization that, inspite of it all, she's still selling herslf (actually being sold by a manical father) and that her stupid CeeDee is still making money.

Call me paranoid, I guess, but I smell a media-manipulation rat.

[-Jar-]

Kelly Clarkson was pretty bad at the Orange Bowl too.. They were trying to mix together her and 4 or 5 other backup singers, but they were all singing all the lines and the mix was such that I really couldn't tell which one was Kelly. I don't know why they try to do those things, because they always turn out laughable.

They really should just leave halftime to the marching bands.

[nobody]

I'd have to see her naked before I could accurately judge her level of talent. I'm pretty sure music has nothing to do with it.

[dean_martin]

They really should just leave halftime to the marching bands.

Couldn't agree more! A good, powerful college marching band playing superior arrangements can send shivers up and down your spine and make the hair on your arms (back of neck or wherever else you have hair) stand up. Of course I'm biased because I was in the band in high school and in The Million Dollar Band at the U. of Alabama, which was considerd one of the top 5 in the country. (I have no idea who rates college bands, but that's what we were told and we repeated it constantly.) Oh, and my son is in marching band too! Right now his drumline is preparing for winter drumline competition. This is their first year participating and I'm excited about going to the first competition next Saturday. Hey, if you want your kids to appreciate music as much as you, get'em in a good band program.

If you want to check out marching technique and musicianship in its highest form, go to
www.DCI.org. One of our moderators here, Sir Terrence is an alumn of one of the most respected drum & bugle corps.

My current favorite college band is Troy U.'s (f/k/a Troy State) because of their excellent musicianship, powerful brass line and their active involvement with local high school bands.

[Dusty Chalk]

They really should just leave halftime to the marching bands.Wouldn't that be funny if they formed into the image of the star from Janet Jackson's right breast?

[Troy]

I have her album & I think there are some halfway decent tunes on it. It does seem like anything I happen to like about it likely has nothing to do with her; she may or may not have made the musical or lyrical contributions she's credited with. Obviously a lot was done in the studio to process her vocal tracks. It doesn't matter. I still think the tunes are decent. Not great, nothing I'd reach for all that often, but hardly terrible. If you can separate this piece of work from what she has come to represent in terms of a lack of talent, it's not horrible. Hardly a ringing endorsement, but I've sure heard worse & I actually got some enjoyment out of the thing.


I realize that maybe you are playing devils advocate here, but . . .

You defend her songs. She gets "some" writing credit, but how much of the songs did she write? Did she have a hand in production? Did she actually PLAY any of the instruments?

As you suspect, the aspect of her that you find "ok" is not her. It's a pure svengali job.

[nobody]

That really does bring up something that interests me and also something that really spreads to most modern rap recordings as well as stuff from every era.

How much credit goes to the focused upon artist, yet how much does the artist actually do as opposed to a producer or other behind-the-scenes type. And, does it matter from a consumer standpoint who made the thing if you like to listen to it.

Mili Vinilli is actually a great example. If the public liked the music so much...why did it really matter so much who was singing it? Did a great song suddenly turn bad because the performers weren't so photogenic after all? Was everybody just pissed they were duped?

I also think it's intereting if you go back into the 50s where it was most common for a singer to be jist a singer, not a songwriter. A band was often hired guns, rarely a working unit. Does a setup like this diminish artist's output from those days, or does it serve as an example of a team working together and sumliminating their personal egos in service of a song.?

Anyway, now I'm just rambling...just thought I'd toss some stuff out there.

[kexodusc]

I'm missing something here, but when in hell did the public start giving a rat's ass about Jessica f'n Simpson?
Was she society's golden child prior to SNL? I think the media loves a scandal, because scandals are sleazy, dirty, and dirt sells.
Seriously, aren't we all bored of this Jessica Simpson BS? Yet the media still plays it.

I'm with jasn on this...it reeks of being calculated...I think Vince MacMahon man is on record saying "There's no such thing as bad publicity, there's just publicity". And we're all being manipulated by the PR/Marketing departments...

Now the spotlight is on her and off Brittany Spears marriages and kissing adventures...what more could pop-star want than ALL the attention? Hey, I can't name ONE Jessica Simpson song, but I know who she is and what she does (not) do!

[mad rhetorik]

The problem has less to do with Ashlee Simpson (though I would be the first to say that, along with her intellectually blank sibling she's a no-talent skank). No, the real issue is that it's taken this long for the public to notice this sort of thing.

The fact is that pop stars have been pulling this lip-synching s<a>hit for over a decade. Just flash some nice t<a>its and a pretty face in front of the cameras and it will sell millions, while the real talent flies under the radar. As a very wise man once said, nobody ever got rich by overestimating the intelligence of the American public.

[Davey]

Hey, I can't name ONE Jessica Simpson song, but I know who she is and what she does (not) do!
Actually, the people in this thread were all talking about her sister :)

[ForeverAutumn]

Is it so slow around here that everyone has resorted to a full-fledged discussion over Ashlee Simpson??????

YIKES!

:(

[Davey]

Is it so slow around here that everyone has resorted to a full-fledged discussion over Ashlee Simpson??????
Oh yeah, like you're so above it all, eh?

Hehehe, just wish I had something to add to this full-fledged conversation. For what it's worth, I think people just love to see celebrities brought back down to earth on occasion. Just human nature. But it's even more satisfying when they were so obviously manufactured. Too bad that she gets so much attention and record sales just for being OK when so many of the artists we normally talk about are often nearly destitute. She did seem like an odd choice for a big college halftime show, but I guess they were thinking more about the TV audience. Still seems like an odd choice for the football crowd. Kelly Clarkson too. But then again, I'm a bit out of touch. Imagine what a cool halftime show you could put together to highlight some of your favorite unknown bands.

[Troy]

"There's no such thing as bad publicity, there's just publicity" is a very old quote. Way older than a WWF hack like Vince McMahon.

And FA, Ashlee Simpson is the first subjet that we ALL agree on here in a loooong time. Drink up the good vibes!

I can honestly say that I've neveer actually HEARD an Ashlee Simpson song, so perhaps I'm being hasty in my conclusion that it's crap . . . . . nahhhhhh.

[jasn]

Originally posted by Davey
Imagine what a cool halftime show you could put together to highlight some of your favorite unknown bands.<!-- / message -->
I suppose, but then they wouldn't be unknown anymore, so we wouldn't like them :rolleyes:

[Troy]

Mili Vinilli. Was everybody just pissed they were duped?

It was this more than anything else.


I also think it's intereting if you go back into the 50s where it was most common for a singer to be jist a singer, not a songwriter. A band was often hired guns, rarely a working unit. Does a setup like this diminish artist's output from those days, or does it serve as an example of a team working together and sumliminating their personal egos in service of a song.?


I think about this a lot actually. It has always been common, well, since the 40s anyway. Did Sinatra wrte ANY of those songs he made so famous? I don't think so. He didn't arange the band or orchestra either. I've never seen him play an instrument.

I want to say that it started with the advent of rock, but that's untrue when you take into consideration the jazz artists of the 30s and 40s.

Why is this "did they write, play AND sing it" thing so important to so many of us around here? Is it that we like the idea of iconoclast artists doing everything themselves? That sort of insolent DIY attitude? I think that's part of it. But I think it mainly shows the artistry of these people. Frankly, I think the construction of the musical performance is way more important than the vocal performance. That's where the real artistry resides for me.

[kexodusc]

Davey: Whoops...I meant Ashlee not Jessica in my post...FYI, the only Jessica song I know is the slaughtered refabbed Mellencamp one.

Troy: your probably right...Just read a quote the other day attributed to him...apologies to whomever he ripped-off.

[topspeed]

She did seem like an odd choice for a big college halftime show, but I guess they were thinking more about the TV audience. Still seems like an odd choice for the football crowd. Kelly Clarkson too.

This statement hits the nail on the head. I was at the game and every fan I ran across was completely befuddled by the line-up for halftime. What idiot concocted this program? The only person that I was remotely interested in was Gwen Stefani and she scratched a few days before gameday. The national anthem was sung by Jo-Jo. Uhh, who the hell is Jo-Jo? Isn't that the clown my kids watch on Playhouse Disney? Sure sounded like it...

As for Ashlee, I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt because the sound system at the stadium was abysmal, even though she looked cartoonish trying to pull off the whole "punk" theme (An anarchy "A" on a fake 20' tall drum kit?!? Somewhere, Sid Vicious is rolling in his grave.) Based on the comments, it appears it wasn't the stadium acoustics after all; she's just that bad. To be honest, the poor girl was doomed before she sang a note. I don't know who buys her records but it sure wasn't the demographic of the audience in attendance. Everyone was *****ing about the lame half-time program before kick-off and we all agreed we'd rather see both of the college bands.

Just my 2 cents.

[-Jar-]

It was this more than anything else.



IWhy is this "did they write, play AND sing it" thing so important to so many of us around here?


Beatles?

[DariusNYC]

I realize that maybe you are playing devils advocate here, but . . .

You defend her songs. She gets "some" writing credit, but how much of the songs did she write? Did she have a hand in production? Did she actually PLAY any of the instruments?

As you suspect, the aspect of her that you find "ok" is not her. It's a pure svengali job.

I guess I think what you're saying here is mostly irrelevant for judging the worth of the music itself as opposed to passing judgment on an artist or performer personally. (I'm also responding to Nobody's thoughts on this subject.) Basically, when an artist or a band puts out an album or a song, people should be able to judge that recording without passing judgment on the individual people who produced it. Put differently, when judging Ashlee Simpson's individual talent or worth as an artist or a musician/performer, everything that you mention, Troy, is relevant. But when judging a particular recording put out by "Ashlee Simpson" the brand name, I think it's sorta beside the point, because what we have is an actual recorded product that will have particular qualities that you can listen to and judge for yourself. We don't have to learn about the process that produced it, we can just listen to it and see if we like it. If Ashlee's (the person, not the brand name) only job when this stuff was being made was to sit around and smile and wear a cute t-shirt in the video, it doesn't mean that the new Ashlee Simpson song couldn't be good -- it only means that Ashlee Simpson herself probably isn't that talented a singer. I know I've argued versions of this before, but I don't think we should pollute our judgment of musical product with thoughts about (a) how difficult or easy it was to produce or to perform or (b) how much of it was done by the named artist and how much was done by other individuals or even (c) how personally talented and versitle the individual named artist may be.

It doesn't mean you can't take the Davey line and say it's a shame when such mediocre talented individuals get all this exposure and money -- that's a perfectly legitimate position, and an important one. It's just not relevant to whether "Aslee Simpson" has any good songs. (I've never heard her stuff so personally I have no idea.)

Perfect example of this from last year is the song "Toxic" by Britney Spears. Britney's an annoying over-marketed pop star who's kinda hot but has a mediocre voice, and she can't write music or play any instruments. But this is an absolutely killer track. Does that mean that anyone underestimated Britney Spears the person -- not necessarily. It just means that "Britney Spears" the brand name came up with a f*cking awesome song. Good for "her".

[Dusty Chalk]

I find it amusing that I knew who you were talking about before I even opened the thread for the first time. That, and the fact that you left off the question mark in its name.

[3-LockBox]

Perfect example of this from last year is the song "Toxic" by Britney Spears. Britney's an annoying over-marketed pop star who's kinda hot but has a mediocre voice, and she can't write music or play any instruments. But this is an absolutely killer track. Does that mean that anyone underestimated Britney Spears the person -- not necessarily. It just means that "Britney Spears" the brand name came up with a f*cking awesome song. Good for "her".

I say (near) the same thing whenever anyone brings up Janet Jackson. Ok, she made a poor decision during the SB performance and didn't own up to it (right away). But does that mean her music sucks? She is probably the only person in her genre that I enjoy listening to, even though I'm not a video nut or into dancing. But let me say that out loud, and everyone questions my judgement. I like her music. I don't have to like her brother, or the rest of her family, or approve of her social life. (Something about her music grabs my attention when others like her, do not)

What people (outside of RR) are glossing over is that there were many technological glitches during the entire half-time show, that affected all performers, not just Simpson. It even affected some of the commentators. But, it has now become popular to bash Simpson, so now everyone will, even if they liked her CD before her SNL debacle. But her CD sold very well up till now, so somebody liked it. She is a so-so singer, who is in the position of making a lot of money because of the fact she has a famous sister and I'm willing to bet that <i>that</i> is the reason why so many people (I'm assuming youngins) bought her product. You know, 30 years ago, you couldn't find anyone who would admit they voted for Nixon. No, the entire pop genre shouldn't be judged on the merits of Ashlee Simpson, no more than Country should be judged by a person like Billy Ray Cyrus. Prog rock certainly has its share of mediocre singers, but most of us proggers over look the vocals and judge groups on the merit of the music and writing.

On the other hand, I don't blame anyone here at the RR board for laughing up their sleeves and having some fun at Simpson's expense. Especially when you consider how much real talent world wide goes un-noticed or under-appreciated. Hopefully, no one here feels duped or mislead. I know I don't, since I don't listen to her music. I don't get too twisted about it because like most teen pop stars, she has a very short lifespan (career wise). She is just another in a long line of record company product, and that won't ever change.

Myself, I liked what happened at the Orange Bowl, not because of any hatred towards pop music, but because of a growing trend to turn a great sport into a pop-culture event, and that could be a distraction to the game itself, deminishing the level of play, and the level of play is why American Football is so popular, not the haltime show. I wouldn't want Prog acts to play the halftime show. I don't want a bloated, over-long halftime show. I hope that the logistical nightmare that putting on one of those shows, coupled with the embarissment of its failure, will eventually kill off these shows.

[Troy]

Darius, read my 11:15 post, I agree with you quite a bit, actually.

Yes, these artists are really "product". They are one part of a very large organization, just the most visible part. A quarterback is nothing without the team around him. Ditto racecar drivers. Even lawyers with their names on the building couldn't do thier jobs without all staff that goes largely unheralded.

I suppose my gripe is that its about "credit". Ashlee and Britney are idolized by their leigons of teenyboper fans as being musical queens. Important musical artists, when they are really just puppets. Sure, maybe there are some songs which are hooky as hell and "they rock" or "you can't sit still when you listen to them" or whatever. But these songs would still be good if YOU were singing them. Well . . . you know what I mean. The songs are bought and paid for pieces that these kids can then warble over. These gilrs are utterly replacable. That a few songs might be good does NOT mean they are good because of Ashlee or Britney.

Wow, spelling like a drunk today!

[DariusNYC]

Darius, read my 11:15 post, I agree with you quite a bit, actually.

Yes, these artists are really "product". They are one part of a very large organization, just the most visible part. A quarterback is nothing without the team around him. Ditto racecar drivers. Even lawyers with their names on the building couldn't do thier jobs without all staff that goes largely unheralded.

I suppose my gripe is that its about "credit". Ashlee and Britney are idolized by their leigons of teenyboper fans as being musical queens. Important musical artists, when they are really just puppets. Sure, maybe there are some songs which are hooky as hell and "they rock" or "you can't sit still when you listen to them" or whatever. But these songs would still be good if YOU were singing them. Well . . . you know what I mean. The songs are bought and paid for pieces that these kids can then warble over. These gilrs are utterly replacable. That a few songs might be good does NOT mean they are good because of Ashlee or Britney.

Wow, spelling like a drunk today!

OK, I guess we don't really disagree that much on this; just a difference of emphasis. Boooring. Have a nice weekend! (I'm off now to go skiing in Colorado for the week -- woo hoo!)