Warning to CSW customers

[Mike Sloan]

Subject: Warning To CSW customers!!!!!

CSW does not supply parts for the speakers they sell!

My Letter to CSW customer service:

I would like to start out by saying that my T500 speakers are performing flawlessly...no problems. This is a policy question that I have regarding parts availability for the Newton line. I realize that some of the speakers are not easily accessible buy the user (i.e., T300,s MC 300, etc.)
However...the MC500 and T500's are easy to get at. Let us say (for
discussion)...that a tweeter blows in the T500. I certainly would prefer to order the part and install it myself. The cost of boxing, and shipping the T500 back would be excessive....not to mention the potential damage that could be incurred by the exstensive handling of such a heavy and large/fragile product. I called CSW customer service and was told that they would never sell me any parts under any circumstances....and that I would have to return the entire T500! I then asked to talk with a supervisor...and was hung up on. Very unsettling, to say the least. I have dealt with many speaker companies and have always been able to purchase
parts. What is your take on this rather strange policy?
I see from your website (HIFI.COM) that your are no longer shipping the T500.....further supporting the case for "PARTS AVAILABILITY." I was also told from a CSW employee that the decision to stop shipment of the T500 was because of damage due to shipping such a heavy, delicate speaker. You want me to subject my speaker to this potential abuse over a $20.00 part?

Here is the CSW customer sevice response:

HI MIKE<
That actually is correct. The company policy requires that a customer
ship their product to our service center for repairs because we are the
only authorized servicer of the product. This policy has everything to do
with company liability. If a customer were to make a repair on their own
with a part we supplied them and then they accidentally electrocute
themselves, or their house burns down as a result of a fire from the
repair, we could be held liable for it.

If you encounter a problem with your T500s at some point and they need
service, please call us at 1-800-367-4434 to arrange for the repair
authorization number and shipping RMA.
Thank you for your inquiry, Mike.
Cambridge SoundWorks
Customer Care
.....................
Paradigm, Definitive Technology, Vienna Acoustics, Infinity, Mirage, Ascend, Klipsch, Onix, Polk Audio, Boston Acoustics, Atlantic Technology....and the list goes on....all allow the customer to purchase parts for their speakers! Here is a quote from the Boston Acoustics website:

"To order replacement parts for your Boston Acoustics product, simply complete and submit the form below. If you wish to speak to someone in person, call us at 978-538-5000 and select "Parts and Service" using our automated phone system during normal business hours: Monday through Friday 9am to 5pm EST."

This policy should preclude anyone from purchasing "large/tower" type speakers from CSW in fear that a simple "swap out part" would cost them hundreds of dollars in shipping and potential damage in handling!
Here ends my relationship with CSW (which is a shame because I like their products)...this is unexceptable!

[risabet]

Tell me you're joking! Okay, so you're not joking. I worked in High-End Audio forabout 3 years and in all that time the only speaker vendors who would not allow customer or dealer repairs were Apogee and Quad. This company does not deserve anyone's business with an attitude like this.

[N. Abstentia]

Cambridge is afraid you will electrocute yourself by installing a tweeter?

Yet another reason to avoid CSW!

[Geoffcin]

While I don't agree with the policy, it's a small price to pay to get a 10 year warrantee. I've had mine for 3 years now, and I have no doubt that they will last.

[Mike Sloan]

It makes the 10 year warranty worthless to me...atleast in the case of the T500's....too big to send back for a repair of any sort!

[Geoffcin]

It makes the 10 year warranty worthless to me...atleast in the case of the T500's....too big to send back for a repair of any sort!

The Magnepan III back for repair. It's not as expensive as you might think. In any case, the T500's are built so well I don't ever expect to have to send them anywhere.

[JamezHill]

I agree, the T500's are great speakers. I have had mine for over a year now and can't see how anything would go wrong (not saying it can't). I emailed them when they made their T500 "available in store only". I thought they were going to stop carrying it but turns out, I got the same response as you. I was also told that they are going to be adding more speakers to their Newton Line, but that the T500 will still be their flagship speaker. At about ~90lbs i would hate to ship a speaker back though :( Do you know if this return policy of theirs is the same for lets say a speaker grill?

[midfiguy]

Okay, first off, this is all hypothetical. Have you blown your tweeter yet? No. So who cares until you have to worry about it? You must have your entire wardrobe outlined in LL Bean since they basically take anything back that you buy and replace it with new stuff. Why would you buy clothes from anyone else?

Anyways, CSW will take care of their customers. The 10 year warranty DOES make a difference because let's say you have to ship your precious speaker and something DOES happen to it, they will not rest until you have exactly what you're suppose to have. They will replace the speaker if there is ANY damage to the cabinet, etc.

If the "potential" lack of customer service (which there really is none) on a speaker that you love and is working flawlessly is keeping you from buying other CSW products, that's ridiculous.

[kexodusc]

Not sure how you'd electrocute yourself installing a tweeter or whatever unless, maybe, the speaker was plugged in at rediculously loud volumes while you are working on it?

That being said...there's a lot less difficulty taking Cambridge's approach to repairs. The downside is it is a bit punitive to the competent owners.

To assess the value of the warranty and the potential cost of shipping your speaker for a part you really have to determine the probability of something going wrong in 10 years. I'd say it'd be no more than 2%. The cost of shipping would be what? $100 max? You're expected cost over a 10 year run for shipping is therefore $2 on these speakers...hardly significant compared to any other company.
Would you have bought these speakers for $2 more and remained a happy customer? If so, there's no point complaining, this issue is statistically insignificant, and even in absolute terms, the price of shipping for guaranteed repair work isn't unreasonable.

[Mike Sloan]

midifiguy,

let's say you have to ship your precious speaker and something DOES happen to it, they will not rest until you have exactly what you're supposed to have."
..........................
It's strange why you would defend such a policy?.....I can't think of another speaker company that does not supply parts to their customers! If the speaker gets damaged in shipping...you first have to go through the claims department at UPS. Then the next thing that happens is they will say the speaker was not packaged properly....and around you go....been there....done that....it is a process that you should avoid at all cost! I have blown drivers several times...a woofer in a Snell J series and a tweeter in a Nautilus 802, as well as and an AMP in my VTF-3 (faulty grounding strap). The companies sent out the drivers/amp....and their was no discussions regarding warranties or electrocution.
HERE IS A QUOTE FROM BOSTON ACOUSTICS WEBSITE:

"To order replacement parts for your Boston Acoustics product, simply complete and submit the form below. If you wish to speak to someone in person, call us at 978-538-5000 and select "Parts and Service" using our automated phone system during normal business hours: Monday through Friday 9am to 5pm EST."......NO ELECTROCUTION......NO HOUSES BURNING DOWN....NO SCREAMS OF TERROR....go figure?

If you like the policy of adding (atleast) $100.00 to the repair or replacement of any part on your T500..then by all means....buy more. Have you ever watched how your bags are handled at airports...UPS is no different. I myself will make sure the compamy I deal with.... supplies parts. I heard LL Bean sells some killer speakers...I think they have GORTEX drivers!
.....................
JamezHill,
I think you could purchase a grill if needed.....I have been having discussions with individuals that are high enough in the company to make "POLICY" decisions...and they have said that there is some personnel shuffling going on that will make CSW more customer friendly. For example....there was a case where a T500 owner lost the "fuse holder cap" to the amp....and CSW wanted him to return the Tower for inspection....some times stupid policy gets in the way of common sense.

[Mike Sloan]

That being said...there's a lot less difficulty taking Cambridge's approach to repairs. The downside is it is a bit punitive to the competent owners.
............................

I see your point...but for me this is not acceptable. It should be handled on a case by case basis through discussion and input with CSW technical support. The way it stands now, there is no procedure in place to allow the "competent" owner to make a simple swap out.....as is the case with most/all other speaker companies.

[N. Abstentia]

On the other hand, I'm sure there is a company that makes a good drop in tweeter for those. Somebody will profit from CSW's stupidity.

[midfiguy]

If you like the policy of adding (atleast) $100.00 to the repair or replacement of any part on your T500..then by all means....buy more.

Um... ...Slick... you own the T500s, not me.

I myself will make sure the compamy I deal with.... supplies parts.

Well, obviously that wasn't the case when you bought your T500s, now was it? Shows how smart you actually are...

I heard LL Bean sells some killer speakers...I think they have GORTEX drivers!

What does that have to do with anything? If you can't understand the simple concept of using an example, then you probably should avoid forums all together. I didn't say buy speakers from LLB. However, if a company like LLBean has pretty much a full replacement policy on things like shoes, then shouldn't you buy all of your shoes from there? Why buy from other manufacturers when you can't get replacements, etc? Oh yes, it's those things called preference, taste, performance, etc. I forgot about those things.

[Mike Sloan]

"Um... ...Slick... you own the T500s, not me"
.................
self-explanatory.

Well, obviously that wasn't the case when you bought your T500s, now was it? Shows how smart you actually are...
....................................
Actually..that was not the case...I had a buzz in one of my T500 Towers and and CSW tech support sent me instructions on how to pull the "active" driver out and inspect the cast basket for a potential wire tap. I also enquired on parts replacement prior to executing my order...and was assured they did supply parts. I probably should have got that in writing!
.............................................
I heard LL Bean sells some killer speakers...I think they have GORTEX drivers!
...........................................
Understood the concept....pretty funny you actually took time to explain it...that speaks volumes! Anyway...let's not get personal and keep the discussion on track....you do have informative comments when you are not feeling threatend!

[Resident Loser]

...If morons can spill coffee on themselves and then successfully sue the folks who sold it to 'em...well, where do you think the overcautiousness might come from...

Some time ago I had the occasion I'd visit a friend of mine, who manages a seafood store. While I was there I decided to make a few purchases...the fresh fish or stuffed clams or whatever were packed into the standard aluminum tray with a clear poly top. My friend said to me "be sure to take the top off before you pop it in the oven"...I gave him a look and when he realized who he was talking to he apologized immediately saying "you wouldn't believe the idiots we have to deal with on a regular basis". Apparently there are those who need to guarded from themselves regardless of the seeming "no brainer" factor involved.

jimHJJ(...too many people, capable of frivolous lawsuits screw it up for the rest of us...)

[midfiguy]

I'm not trying to get personal. However, when you make comments like:

If you like the policy of adding (atleast) $100.00 to the repair or replacement of any part on your T500..then by all means....buy more.

I heard LL Bean sells some killer speakers...I think they have GORTEX drivers!

which don't really add alot, then I play the same game.

[JamezHill]

Eitherway, I have made numerous purchases from CSW and have always been more than happy with their products and their service. I would still recommend them to others.

[Woochifer]

As midfi pointed out, why is this even an issue given that nothing's wrong with your speaker and you still got about 9 years worth of warranty protection remaining? When you say that you've dealt with many speaker companies, how many of them did you actually buy drivers from?

I don't know of any speaker company that will just ship out a driver to the customer if the thing is still under warranty. If something went wrong with my Paradigms, I know that Paradigm would tell me to bring it back to the dealer so they can check it out and see what actually needs fixing. Why would I want to buy a driver from them when I can just bring it back to my local dealer? The two times that I've ever brought speakers in for repair, the driver was not at fault -- once it was a faulty solder point, another time a circuit on the crossover failed.

Check with any mail order speaker company and see how they would handle things in the event something happens with speakers that they sell. They would probably give you shipping instructions and tell you to send it back to the factory for inspection and repairs. If you don't want to send speakers back to the factory for repairs, then stick with those speakers that have local dealer networks where you can take back any defective items.

Or you could hunt out a local repair shop that can ID the part that you need and order it for you. Of course, it's on your dime. From what I understand, CSW uses generic drivers from secondary suppliers, so you could just inquire as to who their vendor is (Vifa and Scanspeak are the two likeliest suspects), and go through that channel to get a replacement part.

I've owned Boston Acoustics speakers before and their replacement driver program is primarily for those customers who own older speakers that are no longer under warranty (Bostons are covered for five years). They simply maintain an inventory of drivers for all of their discontinued models. If it's still under warranty, I doubt that they will just sell you a driver and let you do your own repairs without invalidating the remainder of the warranty. I don't know anyone else that will maintain a warranty either after a customer worked on it.

Ever see this sign at a repair shop? Says a lot IMO ...

SHOP LABOR RATES
$50/hour
$75/hour if you watch
$100/hour if you help out
$200/hour if you worked on it first

[JamezHill]

HAH, never saw that sign, but yeah, that DOES say a lot!