Master Bedroom Stereo Speakers

[nightflier]

I am helping someone who is going to be bed-ridden for some time set up a high-quality 2-channel stereo system in their master bedroom. Originally the system had two mid-sized tower speakers in each corner of the room that faced the bed. But in order to maximize floor-space, these speakers are going to be used elsewhere and we want to install smaller, book-shelf sized speakers higher up near the ceiling. We originally tried in-ceiling speakers but the sound and directionality did not really work well. They didn't sound good enough (the owner listens to classical music and I would classify him as an audiophile). So instead, we would like to mount a very good set of bookshelf speakers on brackets but there are some limitations.

- The speakers cannot be taller that 12" (I suppose we could install the speakers sideways, but I am not certain how that would affect the sound).
- The speakers cannot be too heavy or too deep in size
- We want a speaker that can play well in the lower frequencies
- I want to stay clear of anything that will require a sub.
- The room is about 18 x 18' and has a few odd corners, but not that will affect the line of sight to the speakers.
- I have already installed 14 gauge speaker wire in the wall and terminated the ends where the speakers will be installed.

Thank you for your help.

[bargainseeker]

You may want to consider the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html) bookshelf speakers with these OmniMount 20.0 wall mounts (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00013BNLQ/qid=1104883507/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_8/103-7347287-3278208?v=glance&s=electronics). I have this combination in our lower level media room and they do very well with classical music. Reviews of the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 speakers are here (http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/ascendacoustics_cbm170.htm) and here (http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_125308_1594crx.aspx).

You did not mention a budget. If you are willing to spend more than $400 for the speakers and mounts, there are other good options as well.

[RGA]

It's tough because you have a big room and you want a small speaker to do well that also has bass.

You also don;t mention a budget - Under $1k I will suggest the Audio Note AX Two - largely because it's my favorite speaker under $1k and because it has the dynamics and ease of placement and a good deal of low end power that it should work well.

Due to weird positioning though you will have problems no matter what speaker you use when it comes to things like soundstage - so this suggestion will at least work for things like timbral accuracy. At $549.00 a pair they're worth checking out. My other pics probably won't work near wall and some require big power to drive properly. The drawback is that the speaker is 15"H x 9"W x 9.25"D

Speakers can usually be placed sideways - The AN-K is used in some recording studios on it's side with a pole running on the back of it screwed down - I don;t have the picture of that one anymore though - http://www.responseaudio.com/audio%20note.htm

[Geoffcin]

I am helping someone who is going to be bed-ridden for some time set up a high-quality 2-channel stereo system in their master bedroom. Originally the system had two mid-sized tower speakers in each corner of the room that faced the bed. But in order to maximize floor-space, these speakers are going to be used elsewhere and we want to install smaller, book-shelf sized speakers higher up near the ceiling. We originally tried in-ceiling speakers but the sound and directionality did not really work well. They didn't sound good enough (the owner listens to classical music and I would classify him as an audiophile). So instead, we would like to mount a very good set of bookshelf speakers on brackets but there are some limitations.- The speakers cannot be taller that 12" (I suppose we could install the speakers sideways, but I am not certain how that would affect the sound).
- The speakers cannot be too heavy or too deep in size
- We want a speaker that can play well in the lower frequencies
- I want to stay clear of anything that will require a sub.
- The room is about 18 x 18' and has a few odd corners, but not that will affect the line of sight to the speakers.
- I have already installed 14 gauge speaker wire in the wall and terminated the ends where the speakers will be installed.

Thank you for your help.


As one of the best small speakers I've ever heard and that's the ProAc.

I run high quality computer speaker in my office, but one day these might make it in there;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14991&item=5741353535&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[dean_martin]

I went with a pair of NHT SuperOne xu speakers in our master bedroom to maximize floor space. They're designed for wall-mounting and came with brackets. I've read some complaints about lack of bass and aggressive highs, but I haven't experienced this. I think they have tight bass and smooth, open highs. I drive them with a NAD C340 integrated which is supposed to have a little more energy in the lower frequencies so maybe it's synergy. Anyhow, the NHTs have sealed enclosures so you don't have to worry about a port being too close to a wall. I'm not sure if NHT's current lineup includes anything similar. Another line you might try is the Polk RTi series like the 28, 38 or their most recent version (recently reviewed in Stereophile). These are front ported and I believe come with threaded holes for wall-mounting. They sound better than you might think but may be a little aggressive up top for classical.

BTW, a bed-ridden individual may appreciate a universal remote more than anything. When I listen or watch a dvd in bed I have to bring the remote caddy with me - cable remote, tv remote, dvd remote, cdp remote, amp remote and the list goes on. Some components like my cdp and amp can't be turned on by remote. Sounds like a worthwhile project. Good luck.

[nightflier]

Sorry I forgot what we had budgetted. We returned the ceiling mounted speakers and they were $250 each, and we have another $400 left over. Here is the list of items we put together so far:

- Harman Kardon HK3480 receiver (new)
- Harman Kardon DVD player (new)
- Pioneer 400 CD changer (already owned)
- Compaq computer with sound card to use as media server (already owned)
- Music Hall MMF2.1 turntable (already owned)
- Audio Quest cables (new)
- Sony CRT TV (already owned)
- Sony AV3100 remote, wireless keyboard & mouse (new)
- Speakers????

I am in the process of converting the LP collection to MP3, because he will not easily be able to change records. He is a big analog buff, so the sound quality is not as he would like, but we have few options there. He is not interested in surround sound so we went with a beefy HK stereo receiver. We did not have the budget for seperates and he wanted to spend a little bit more on the speakers than the rest of the system. I know that under $1K the choices of speakers are a bit limitted to the standard brands, but that is what it is; it's expensive to be sick these days.

[bargainseeker]

With a $1000 budget, you have a number of options. You may want to consider the ATC SCM 7 (http://www.atc.gb.net/), the Von Schweikert VR-1 (http://www.vonschweikert.com/vr1.html) and the Amphion Helium2 (http://www.amphion.fi/products/helium2/helium2frame5.htm) in new speakers. If you can swing a deal or are willing to buy used, you may be able to get a pair of the Amphion Argon2 (http://www.amphion.fi/products/argon2/argon2frame5.htm), the ATC SCM 12 (http://www.atc.gb.net/) or the Dynaudio Contour 1.1 (http://www.dynaudio.com/) speakers within your budget. For special deals on new and used speakers, I suggest AudiogoN (http://www.audiogon.com/index.html).

[dean_martin]

Sorry I forgot what we had budgetted. We returned the ceiling mounted speakers and they were $250 each, and we have another $400 left over.

He is a big analog buff, so the sound quality is not as he would like, but we have few options there. .

I wonder if something like a tube buffer like the one below would make enough of a difference to justify diverting some funds away from speakers? It seems that it has the potential to warm and sweeten things up a bit which would probably appeal to an anolog buff.

http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=AMUFIX10V3

[SAPSEC]

Try BW 303 or BW 601. They are excellent and not so expensive

[smreed32]

I am helping someone who is going to be bed-ridden for some time set up a high-quality 2-channel stereo system in their master bedroom. Originally the system had two mid-sized tower speakers in each corner of the room that faced the bed. But in order to maximize floor-space, these speakers are going to be used elsewhere and we want to install smaller, book-shelf sized speakers higher up near the ceiling. We originally tried in-ceiling speakers but the sound and directionality did not really work well. They didn't sound good enough (the owner listens to classical music and I would classify him as an audiophile). So instead, we would like to mount a very good set of bookshelf speakers on brackets but there are some limitations.

- The speakers cannot be taller that 12" (I suppose we could install the speakers sideways, but I am not certain how that would affect the sound).
- The speakers cannot be too heavy or too deep in size
- We want a speaker that can play well in the lower frequencies
- I want to stay clear of anything that will require a sub.
- The room is about 18 x 18' and has a few odd corners, but not that will affect the line of sight to the speakers.
- I have already installed 14 gauge speaker wire in the wall and terminated the ends where the speakers will be installed.

Thank you for your help.
For classical music, you may want to look at the Vienna Acoustics Haydn. They are a great sounding bookshelf speaker for this type of "polite" music. I enjoy mine very much. Not sure about bracket mounting as they have a beautiful, furniture grade enclosure. If you go with the Haydn's you will not be disappointed.

[smreed32]

For classical music, you may want to look at the Vienna Acoustics Haydn. They are a great sounding bookshelf speaker for this type of "polite" music. I enjoy mine very much. Not sure about bracket mounting as they have a beautiful, furniture grade enclosure. If you go with the Haydn's you will not be disappointed.
of course...I didnt bother to measure the Haydn's, so I guess they may not fit your form factor requirement.

[nightflier]

OK, we tried Polk LS7i speakers (mounted sideways), Infinity Alpha's, and the Epos ELS-3's over the holidays. I didn't want to introduce too many variables so I avaoided the lesser known brands (sorry, that was not meant to question any of your suggestions, I just didn't want to confuse my uncle.) While he's trying to be nice, I can tell he's not very impressed. The high mounting location is probably a problem and just won't sound as good as a pair of towers.

I do hear what he is hearing, though. They sound a little hollow and boomy, with a bit of emptyness in the midrange. So I'm going to go out on a limb with my next question: what if I were to install a pair of good quality & large center channel speakers to use as the left & right? After all, they are designed to be mounted sideways and tend to excel in the midrange, right? Some companies even sell center speakers that are the same as their L & R speakers (Aperion and Martin Login come to mind).

Thanks for all the good information & suggestions. P.S. we've decided to forgo the turntable as he won't be able to change records as easily as we had hoped.

[RGA]

OK, we tried Polk LS7i speakers (mounted sideways), Infinity Alpha's, and the Epos ELS-3's over the holidays. I didn't want to introduce too many variables so I avaoided the lesser known brands (sorry, that was not meant to question any of your suggestions, I just didn't want to confuse my uncle.) While he's trying to be nice, I can tell he's not very impressed. The high mounting location is probably a problem and just won't sound as good as a pair of towers.

I do hear what he is hearing, though. They sound a little hollow and boomy, with a bit of emptyness in the midrange. So I'm going to go out on a limb with my next question: what if I were to install a pair of good quality & large center channel speakers to use as the left & right? After all, they are designed to be mounted sideways and tend to excel in the midrange, right? Some companies even sell center speakers that are the same as their L & R speakers (Aperion and Martin Login come to mind).

Thanks for all the good information & suggestions. P.S. we've decided to forgo the turntable as he won't be able to change records as easily as we had hoped.

IMO the mistake is NOT looking into the smaller companies. Center channels are a compromise speaker and not particularly good in themselvs. They are more to FIT a position and sorta match the front left and right speakers. Some may Match better than others but for classical music - yikes.

[Geoffcin]

I do hear what he is hearing, though. They sound a little hollow and boomy, with a bit of emptyness in the midrange. So I'm going to go out on a limb with my next question: what if I were to install a pair of good quality & large center channel speakers to use as the left & right? After all, they are designed to be mounted sideways and tend to excel in the midrange, right? Some companies even sell center speakers that are the same as their L & R speakers (Aperion and Martin Login come to mind).


I can recommend the Cambridge Soundworks MC500. I use one for my center, and it sounds great. The tweeter/midrange housing can be rotated in both vertical and horizontal depending on your mounting needs.

[topspeed]

Audition the VR1's. I'm using this in my mbr which is very close in dimensions to your friends, albeit it's more rectangular. They can be used close to the wall and have the best dynamics of any standmount I've heard under $1K, especially for their size. Definitely try to audition them as it sounds like they're what your friend is looking for.

[bargainseeker]

OK, we tried Polk LS7i speakers (mounted sideways), Infinity Alpha's, and the Epos ELS-3's over the holidays. I didn't want to introduce too many variables so I avaoided the lesser known brands (sorry, that was not meant to question any of your suggestions, I just didn't want to confuse my uncle.) While he's trying to be nice, I can tell he's not very impressed. The high mounting location is probably a problem and just won't sound as good as a pair of towers.

I do hear what he is hearing, though. They sound a little hollow and boomy, with a bit of emptyness in the midrange. So I'm going to go out on a limb with my next question: what if I were to install a pair of good quality & large center channel speakers to use as the left & right? After all, they are designed to be mounted sideways and tend to excel in the midrange, right? Some companies even sell center speakers that are the same as their L & R speakers (Aperion and Martin Login come to mind).Going with center channel speakers is not going to solve your problem. In my opinion, the sound that you are hearing has far more to do with the acoustics of the room and the acoustics of the specific mounting locations than it does with the speakers. I believe that you are encountering two problems:

1) The high frequencies are reflecting off of the hard ceiling causing echoes which overemphasize and "smear" the high frequencies.

2) These specific mounting locations are bad places to reproduce bass in this room causing some frequencies in the bass to be overemphasized which results in a boomy sound.

With the high and low frequencies overemphasized, the midrange sounds weak and hollow.

Unless these problems are corrected, I expect that any speakers you place in these locations will sound bad.

If you simply must put the speakers in these locations, I suggest the following to correct these problems:

To correct problem 1, you need the speakers near the ceiling to be mounted on adjustable wall mounts so that they can be tilted down toward the listening area and not aimed along the ceiling. It would be best to choose speakers with threaded inserts for such mounts in the back so that you do not need to drill any holes into them. You also need to put something on the ceiling above and to the front of the speakers to absorb sound. These could be acoustical tiles, pieces of carpeting, or perhaps tapestries that your uncle could look at while resting in bed.

To correct problem 2, you need to prevent the speakers near the ceiling from attempting to reproduce low bass sounds. You can do this by going with a small subwoofer that can be located elsewhere in the room that is more conducive to the accurate reproduction of bass. The subwoofer will then handle the low bass frequencies while the speakers near the ceiling are crossed over so that they reproduce only the upper bass and above.

For small speakers which are outstanding in the reproduction of classical music, I suggest going back to my original recommendation which was a pair of Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html) speakers. These speakers come with threaded inserts for adjustable wall mounts (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00013BNLQ/qid=1104883507/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_8/103-7347287-3278208?v=glance&s=electronics). Reviews on these speakers are here (http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/ascendacoustics_cbm170.htm) and here (http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_125308_1594crx.aspx). The Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 speakers cost $328 per pair.

For a small subwoofer that does particularly well with music, I recommend the Rocket UFW--10 (http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=1.1). This subwoofer also features a built-in parametric equalizer which may be critical to eliminating the boomy sound in this particular room. Reviews on the Rocket UFW-10 are here (http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/rocket_ufw_10.htm) and here (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_2/onix-ufw-10-subwoofer-5-2004.html). The Rocket UFW-10 subwoofer costs $599.

Both the Ascend Acoustics speakers and the Rocket subwoofer come with 30 day in-home trial periods.

I firmly believe that your uncle will have a satisfying classical music listening experience in his room if you follow this advice, all for a total outlay that fits within his $1000 budget.

[Feanor]

...

I believe that you are encountering two problems:

1) The high frequencies are reflecting off of the hard ceiling causing echoes which overemphasize and "smear" the high frequencies.

2) These specific mounting locations are bad places to reproduce bass in this room causing some frequencies in the bass to be overemphasized which results in a boomy sound.

....
It is near-ceiling placement that is the problem. Center channel speakers won't help -- don't send the extra. A subwoofer is a good solution, using a high cross-over point.

If the speakers can't be angled down at at least, say, 35 degrees, you might be better to mount them pointing straight out. That way there is a nearer balance between the direct sound and the early reflections; this isn't the ideal in principle but it might be the best practical solution.

[bargainseeker]

It is near-ceiling placement that is the problem. Center channel speakers won't help -- don't send the extra. A subwoofer is a good solution, using a high cross-over point.

If the speakers can't be angled down at at least, say, 35 degrees, you might be better to mount them pointing straight out. That way there is a nearer balance between the direct sound and the early reflections; this isn't the ideal in principle but it might be the best practical solution."At least 35 degrees" is good advice. If you can't achieve this angle with wall mounts, then I suggest going with these ceiling mounts (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006LHDV/qid=1106926961/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl23/103-7347287-3278208?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846) instead. Both of the adjustable mounts I recommended have ball and socket joints which allow the speaker to be rotated and tilted in any direction.

Once you get the speakers mounted and angled correctly, you should be able to tell what extent you will need to add acoustical treatments to the ceiling.

[nightflier]

Bargainseeker,

I looked up the CBM-170's and they do have exccelent reviews. However, I am concerned with the fact that they are rear-ported, a design that would not work well in my situation. Also, tilting a 12" speaker 35 degrees would add to the needed height a bit, although they are not that big to begin with. I am also intreged by the very flat response accross the frequency spectrum.

Also, I can move the speakers away from the side walls a bit (about 15" in so that the only reflection I have to deal with is the one from the ceiling, which I am still trying to find an "attractive" solution for.

I am not discounting the CBM-170's, but this discussion is peaking my curriosity. Specifically:

- why would a very good quality center channel speaker not be better than a standard bookshelf speaker on its side? For example, isn't the Ascend Acoustics CMT-340M the same as the CMT-340C?

- Are there other front-ported speakers what would work well with classical music?

My search for front-ported and wall mountable speakers is invariably leading me to purchasing a very good set of "surround" speakers, since they are typically designed for this function. Am I barking up the wrong tree (or in this case, the wrong wall)?

[bargainseeker]

I looked up the CBM-170's and they do have exccelent reviews. However, I am concerned with the fact that they are rear-ported, a design that would not work well in my situation. Also, tilting a 12" speaker 35 degrees would add to the needed height a bit, although they are not that big to begin with. I am also intreged by the very flat response accross the frequency spectrum.

Also, I can move the speakers away from the side walls a bit (about 15" in so that the only reflection I have to deal with is the one from the ceiling, which I am still trying to find an "attractive" solution for.

I am not discounting the CBM-170's, but this discussion is peaking my curriosity. Specifically:

- why would a very good quality center channel speaker not be better than a standard bookshelf speaker on its side? For example, isn't the Ascend Acoustics CMT-340M the same as the CMT-340C?

- Are there other front-ported speakers what would work well with classical music?

My search for front-ported and wall mountable speakers is invariably leading me to purchasing a very good set of "surround" speakers, since they are typically designed for this function. Am I barking up the wrong tree (or in this case, the wrong wall)?The mounts I recommended for the CBM-170 do not place the speaker up against the wall or ceiling (see here (http://www.omnimount.com/product.asp?p=54) for more information). They leave enough space for the port to operate, particularly if the speaker is tilted. Also, the mounts allow the speaker to be rotated 90 degrees so that only the 9" width of the CBM-170 would need to fit into your space. The CBM-170 has excellent vertical dispersion as well as horizontal so it is not a problem for this speaker to be on its side. Furthermore, at the fairly high crossover point that I think you are going to need to eliminate your bass problem, the port on any bass reflex speaker will not be doing very much anyway. For all of these reasons, I think you are worrying way too much about where the ports are.

Despite the fact that you see an MTM arrangement on nearly all center channel speakers, this arrangement is extremely poor at producing even horizontal dispersion. Severe lobing is typically seen on the horizontal dispersion plots of such speakers. Since you need to aim these speakers at the listener to reduce reflections from the ceiling, I would specifically not recommend the CMT-340. It uses a different tweeter from the one used in the CBM-170 and is not as accurate in its on-axis frequency response.

For your particular situation, I would recommend speakers on adjustable mounts rather than surround speakers which are typically designed to mount flat against the wall. To get the speakers away from the wall, ceiling mounts are likely to be your best bet. Also, don't forget about the subwoofer, it is a key part of my recommendation to you.

Are there other speakers you could use instead? Undoubtably yes. What is also true is that the vast majority of speakers on the market will not work as well for one reason or another (too big, no mounting inserts, poorer on-axis frequency response, poorer vertical dispersion, etc.). I am recommending speakers to you that I know personally, that will fit your budget, and that I am confident will produce good results.

[bargainseeker]

In rereading your comments, I believe that I have failed to clearly communicate the way that you need to set up the stereo speakers to achieve the best results in this difficult room. So I will try to explain it a different way: When your uncle looks up from his bed he sees the ceiling. Imagine for a minute that this is not a ceiling but is instead a wall that is located 6 feet from your uncle's listening position. Your goal is to mount the stereo speakers on this "wall" so that they are roughly 6 feet apart and are toed in (angled) so that they directly face the listening position. When the music is playing, you want the ceiling to be "painted" with the soundstage. I hope this helps.

[astravitz]

You might want to check out some of the Triangle Speakers, the Titus have a very good reputation:

http://www.triangle-fr.com/uk/enceinte-esprit.php?modele=titus

They also sell COMETE Es & STELLA Es.
They will do a good job on Classical Music.

Some of the Energy Speakers may also meet your requirements:

XL-150 Bookshelf, or if you are willing to use a small sub the Take series is excellent.

http://www.energy-speakers.com/xl1/xl-150.html

If your friend will be listening to a lot of radio then you might want to consider the Tivoli Audio Two with optional sub. I find this little Tivoli Audio system to have exceptional relaxing and southing sound. You can listen to it for hours without being fatiged, it's a great background radio / system - I have it on everyday and still surprised how exceptional it is. The advantage is you can put it right next to the bed and the person will not have to get up to control it or hang speakers anywhere. It's easy to hook up additional sources through the input jack too.

http://www.tivoliaudio.com/home.php

[bargainseeker]

I saw in one of your postings on another thread that you are giving the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 speakers a try. I don't know if you have experience in ceiling mounting speakers, but it is very important that at least two of the four screws in each mount go into a ceiling joist and not just into wallboard. An easy way to assure this is to use an electronic stud finder (http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/ProductDetail.aspx?PID=8181).

I don't know if you are trying the Rocket UFW-10 subwoofer as well or not. There is a new review of the UFW-10 at Audioholics (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/AV123RocketUFW-10Subwoofer1.php) that provides some insight into using its built-in parametric equalizer. I am guessing that your uncle's room has a bass peak around 75Hz that will require the parametric equalizer to smooth out.

[astravitz]

I was using some older Energy XL-17's in my bedroom. Very similiar in build to the Ascend Acoustics. These are mainstream type speakers, definately NOT audiophile class speakers.

I found an ad on audiogon for titus speakers:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1112543970

It's a california dealer that only has 2 pairs left of the Titus left which are a class B speaker. He's selling them NEW directly from the Triangle US Distributer for only $419-. There is no way you could beat this deal anywhere. Generally the Titus sell for $350 to 400 in used condition.

I'm also considering picking up a pair of COMETE 202's on close out for around $500 for the pair. Although, I don't even have room for them currently.

I went to In Living Stereo (http://www.inlivingstereo.com) to listen to the newer Titus ES, which will be going for $750 a pair. They were impressive, but I actually prefer the older Titus 202's. They are amazing in the midrange, incredible sounding on piano and saxaphone.

I also would never recommend wall mounting quality speakers. The dynamics are far superior with proper stands, but I realize that everyone has space constraints. I would even use rubber isolators and place them on a dresser before I mounted them on a wall. You often have to move a speaker around to achive the best possible sound.

Eitherway, good luck with your decision.

[gonefishin]

IMO the mistake is NOT looking into the smaller companies.

I agree completely...there's a good number of smaller companies that have an extremely high price to performance ratio. The lower priced Audio-Note speakers easily fall into the good buy category.

have fun,

dan

[nightflier]

...I also would never recommend wall mounting quality speakers....

I have not yet purchased speakers. I'm waiting on a pair of Ascend Acoustics CBM170s and a pair of Rocket RS150s to arrive and we're going to compare them. In the mean-time we are using my own Klipsch RB-3's sitting on top of a pair of plaster plant stands held together with blutac. It's not an idea setup but it allows us to try different speakers near the position of the wall mount. The Klipsch's are right for this application, but they were not being used and we're still waiting on the other speakers to arrive.

I suppose the main reason I did not want to spend an arm and a leg on the speakers is because I am loath to drill into really expensive cabinets (we'll see if that will be a problem with the Rockets). The Ascends are designed for this, so they may be the better option. One of the options we are considering is to mount a pair of small shelves. We might even be able to mount these at a slant and put a lip on the edge to keep the speaker from slipping.

In any case, all these speakers are too large to be mounted upright, so they will have to be on their sides.

I am farily certain that we will not be using a sub. That just complicates things too much.

[bargainseeker]

I am farily certain that we will not be using a sub. That just complicates things too much.I think that both of the bookshelf speakers you and your uncle are auditioning will sound much better with a subwoofer. If price is an issue, I have two suggestions for lower cost alternatives to the Onix Rocket UFW-10.

The first is a combination of a Dayton 10" sub (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-632) with a Behringer Feedback Destroyer (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=248-656). The advantages of this combo are lower cost, the ability to deal with multiple room peaks or dips and the option to purchase the combo in two steps with the second step optional.

The second is an Onix Rocket ULW-10 (http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=6.1). The advantages of this option are smaller size, better appearance and simpler setup.