Question on subwoofer/Front setup for stereo

[Audiophile]

Hi, i have a yamaha rxv1300 receiver, front: paradigm studio 60, and sub: velodyne vpr1200.

this system is mainly for music, but the problem that i am having is, what is the best way to connect the subwoofer?
i could use the speaker level .. but for some reason, i personally don't like this way, since i need another pair of speaker wires and i have a feeling that this way will degrade the front speaker sound.

shall i use the lfe? but isn't it only work for hometheatre? (cuz i tried this lfe, but the bass seem to be lacking)

shall i use the pre out of L+R?

what are the ways i should be connecting?
shall i set the front to small? since i have a subwoofer, i want to lessen the stress on the amp?

i am confused...
Thanks

[Geoffcin]

Hi, i have a yamaha rxv1300 receiver, front: paradigm studio 60, and sub: velodyne vpr1200.

this system is mainly for music, but the problem that i am having is, what is the best way to connect the subwoofer?
i could use the speaker level .. but for some reason, i personally don't like this way, since i need another pair of speaker wires and i have a feeling that this way will degrade the front speaker sound.

shall i use the lfe? but isn't it only work for hometheatre? (cuz i tried this lfe, but the bass seem to be lacking)

shall i use the pre out of L+R?

what are the ways i should be connecting?
shall i set the front to small? since i have a subwoofer, i want to lessen the stress on the amp?

i am confused...
Thanks

With my Magnepan 3.6r. I am using dual Velodyne FSR15's to supplement the lower frequencies.

While I am using a pre amp with dual line level outputs, for you the easiest way is to use the pre amp output for the mains from your receiver, and set your speakers to LARGE. That's right LARGE. You want to have the sub use it's own filter to attenuate the signal. Try setting it to 40hz, and use a DB meter to set the volume so it matches the mains.

[Audiophile]

Large?, hmm... but wouldn't large also send low freq. to the main as well? which it wouldn't help lessen the stress the amp?

also, would large or small afftect the preamp out?
and what do i set for the subwoofer ? both, main, swf?

and lastly, why 40hz? shouldn't it be 90hz or above?
sorry for asking so many questions =(

[Geoffcin]

Large?, hmm... but wouldn't large also send low freq. to the main as well? which it wouldn't help lessen the stress the amp?

also, would large or small afftect the preamp out?
and what do i set for the subwoofer ? both, main, swf?

and lastly, why 40hz? shouldn't it be 90hz or above?
sorry for asking so many questions =(

Large or small will affect the output of the preamp out, that's why you have to set it to large to use it this way. You also have to set the receiver for NO subwoofer. Stress on the amp should no be a worry, at least for music. What you are trying to do is extend the frequency response of the mains by adding a subwoofer, NOT use the receiver to play an LFE track. I recommend trying the Sub set @ 40hz first because I think your speakers will blend best with as low a crossover as possible. Remember your trying to blend the subwoofer so it's seamless with the mains.

[Stu-r]

Large?, hmm... but wouldn't large also send low freq. to the main as well? which it wouldn't help lessen the stress the amp?

also, would large or small afftect the preamp out?
and what do i set for the subwoofer ? both, main, swf?

and lastly, why 40hz? shouldn't it be 90hz or above?
sorry for asking so many questions =(

Yesterday I came across another forum discussing this item. Noussaine recommends a 120 hz crossover. After experimenting, I just finished setting up mine at 100hz. I listen to music and watch movies as well. The fronts are set to large (full range). The front sound isn't disjointed that way. If I were using my sub in a stereo only system, I'd set it between 50 and 100 hz. But since I have to have my sub in HT, I set it at the rear surround crossover which is 100 hz in my system. My receiver has an option with large fronts, to use the sub in addition to the fronts.

[Audiophile]

Large or small will affect the output of the preamp out, that's why you have to set it to large to use it this way. You also have to set the receiver for NO subwoofer. Stress on the amp should no be a worry, at least for music. What you are trying to do is extend the frequency response of the mains by adding a subwoofer, NOT use the receiver to play an LFE track. I recommend trying the Sub set @ 40hz first because I think your speakers will blend best with as low a crossover as possible. Remember your trying to blend the subwoofer so it's seamless with the mains.

Thanks for clarifying =)

but for some reason, i think if the front is set to small, the midrange sounds cleaner =(

and so, is it true that receiver is not possible to have lfe output for music only?
thanks

[Ryanm]

Your yamaha shouldn't be that much different than mine. My mains are currently set to large because they're dual 8 floorstanders, however before I got my mains I was running the fronts as small and at least in my 5760, what you set the mains for has no impact on what the sub does, the reciever if you use the ypao (spelling?) to set the reciever up then it will go by whatever the lowest frequency is achieved by the speakers that are hooked up to it and cross the subwoofer (connected to the preamp out in my system) to blend with the lowest achievable frequency by your speakers.
Now when I run my system for music I set it for 7 channel stereo, in HT it's almost always DD/DTS depending on the movie. Unless I set the reciever for 2 channel only (and on my reciever there's 2 diff 2 channel settings, 2 channel direct, and 2 channel) then my sub will play in any of the other settings.
If you set the mains to small then you will filter out lower frequencies and will be dependent on your sub to reproduce those frequencies. I personally like the extra bass output from my mains but you may care for more midrange from them.
It's a personal choice thing, and not something anyone can really tell you what to do. I can tell you how I believe your yamaha reacts given that I also have a decent yamaha with similar options, but only you can choose how you want it set up.
As far as I know ( I don't know how your reciever works exactly, going by guestimation given my yamaha) if you set the mains to small, all lfe will go to the sub. If the mains are set to large I'm reasonbly certain all frequencies will go to them.
Again how you set it up is mostly dependent on how you like it set up and what sounds better to you.

[Stu-r]

Thanks for clarifying =)

but for some reason, i think if the front is set to small, the midrange sounds cleaner =(

and so, is it true that receiver is not possible to have lfe output for music only?
thanks


LFE shouldn't output for a stereo source. It should only respond to coded surround signals for LFE. But I think there's a subwoofer level control on your Yamaha that may be set low, or off, causing the lack of bass output. My receiver has a subwoofer plus setting to allow it to also work when the fronts are set to large. Otherwise it doesn't get a signal in stereo mode. On some receivers, the LFE off setting may also shut off all signal to the subwoofer.

If the midrange sounds cleaner, I'd go ahead and use the receiver crossover setting that gives me the best sound. If you can set crossovers for the fronts and surrounds separately, so much the better.

[Audiophile]

however, i tried to lessen the stress on my yamaha amp (to have better midrange), so i tried to set it to small and swf only...
but... later, i found out... lfe has no signal for stereo mode (at least the lfe didn't light up)
and then i connected it to pre amp out...(it works a bit) but it still has weak signal... i think it is because the small, swf mode has affect towards the preamp out...

so, if i connect to preamp output, i must set it to large and subwoofer mode to "main"... therefore adding stress on the amp,?, since amp is trying to drive the low freq. too?
can anyone please clarify this for me? =(
thanks

[Audiophile]

LFE shouldn't output for a stereo source. It should only respond to coded surround signals for LFE. But I think there's a subwoofer level control on your Yamaha that may be set low, or off, causing the lack of bass output. My receiver has a subwoofer plus setting to allow it to also work when the fronts are set to large. Otherwise it doesn't get a signal in stereo mode. On some receivers, the LFE off setting may also shut off all signal to the subwoofer.

If the midrange sounds cleaner, I'd go ahead and use the receiver crossover setting that gives me the best sound. If you can set crossovers for the fronts and surrounds separately, so much the better.

Yes, LFE doesn't have output for stereo source.
can i ask u , are u connecting it to lfe output or preamp out ?
since, lfe output won't work with stereo source.

[Audiophile]

I have tried some connections these few days...
I figure that setting to Large/No subwoofer
and connect with pre amp out... seems to aid a gd result...
but...the front setting to large... the mid range isn't as gd as setting to small...
but... if i set to small... the preamp out won't have enough bass signal...

i did try, LFE output... it seems to have signal....(small, and yes subwoofer settting) but the signal isn't as strong... the bass is weak... maybe it isn't DTS..etc format?

what do u guys think?
anyone can help or clarify this?
Thanks

[Stu-r]

I have tried some connections these few days...
I figure that setting to Large/No subwoofer
and connect with pre amp out... seems to aid a gd result...
but...the front setting to large... the mid range isn't as gd as setting to small...
but... if i set to small... the preamp out won't have enough bass signal...

i did try, LFE output... it seems to have signal....(small, and yes subwoofer settting) but the signal isn't as strong... the bass is weak... maybe it isn't DTS..etc format?

what do u guys think?
anyone can help or clarify this?
Thanks


Can you get the bass loud enough using the volume control on the subwoofer? What are the adjustments/settings on the subwoofer? Is it a powered or a passive subwoofer?

[Audiophile]

Can you get the bass loud enough using the volume control on the subwoofer? What are the adjustments/settings on the subwoofer? Is it a powered or a passive subwoofer?

This is an active subwoofer.
When i use LFE output, (music, not HT/DDT format) it has weak signals. (the setting on the subwoofer crossover is above 90hz, and the receiver setting is set to small, and yes subwoofer) becuz using LFE has to set it up this way. (90hz becuz LFE fixed)

I also tried, preamp output; the setting on subwoofer crossover is 50hz and receiver setting is Large, No subwoofer; becuz there is someone above in this post telling me that the preamp is affected by large/small setting. So when i use the preamp output.. i have to set it to large/no subwoofer. But with this setting, i get good signals.

if i want to set the main to small, but also want strong signal, how can i do so?
or why is my LFE output is so weak?

Thanks

[Stu-r]

This is an active subwoofer.
When i use LFE output, (music, not HT/DDT format) it has weak signals. (the setting on the subwoofer crossover is above 90hz, and the receiver setting is set to small, and yes subwoofer) becuz using LFE has to set it up this way. (90hz becuz LFE fixed)

I also tried, preamp output; the setting on subwoofer crossover is 50hz and receiver setting is Large, No subwoofer; becuz there is someone above in this post telling me that the preamp is affected by large/small setting. So when i use the preamp output.. i have to set it to large/no subwoofer. But with this setting, i get good signals.

if i want to set the main to small, but also want strong signal, how can i do so?
or why is my LFE output is so weak?

Thanks


If you can get respectable bass from the preamp output but not from the bass/LFE jack, something is defective in the receiver. Contact Yamaha about this problem. They should have a web connection for tech support. Or, you may be able to speak to their tech support by phone and either get an answer to your problem or an RMA to return it for service.

[Audiophile]

If you can get respectable bass from the preamp output but not from the bass/LFE jack, something is defective in the receiver. Contact Yamaha about this problem. They should have a web connection for tech support. Or, you may be able to speak to their tech support by phone and either get an answer to your problem or an RMA to return it for service.

But to make sure, isn't it true that in Pure Direct mode (bypass mode) in Stereo and playing CD; the sub pre-out doesn't have signal?
does the pre out only have signals when it is in DTS or playing DVD formats?

[Ryanm]

If it's even similar to my 5760 then unless you are only playing in 2 channel direct stereo it will output from the preamp output from just about any source in any configuration. My sub will output in 7 channel stereo, dts-neo-es, dolby- pro IIx- ex- digital, hall, club, 2 channel stereo ( not direct/bypass mode) I get sub output from all of those. The ONLY single configuration i've tried that did NOT output to the sub was 2 channel stereo direct (could be called bypass). My 5760 has 2 diff forms of 2 channel stereo. One has sub output the other doesn't, every other mode has sub output unless you turn the sub off.

[Audiophile]

If it's even similar to my 5760 then unless you are only playing in 2 channel direct stereo it will output from the preamp output from just about any source in any configuration. My sub will output in 7 channel stereo, dts-neo-es, dolby- pro IIx- ex- digital, hall, club, 2 channel stereo ( not direct/bypass mode) I get sub output from all of those. The ONLY single configuration i've tried that did NOT output to the sub was 2 channel stereo direct (could be called bypass). My 5760 has 2 diff forms of 2 channel stereo. One has sub output the other doesn't, every other mode has sub output unless you turn the sub off.

=O, do you mean that if i am using "direct" mode (which my receiver is called too), then subwoofer preout for 2 channel stereo will not have good strong sigal?
whereas if i am not using the "direct" mode, then subwoofer preout for 2 channel stereo will have good sub signal?

and also, just wondering, how do u set the 2 diff forms of 2 channel stereo?
thanks

[Ryanm]

On my yamaha 5760 there's a button on the remote called "stereo" if you hit it once it'll go into 7 channel stereo and will say so on the reciever, and you'll have sub output effectively being 7.1. If you hit the stereo button again, it'll switch to 2 channel stereo with sub output effectively being 2.1. If you hit the stereo button a 3rd time it'll swtich to 2 channel direct/bypass without sub output, effectively being 2.0, this is the only mode i've found with no sub output. This is true on my reciever, I'm not sure if it's true of yours but I would think they would be very similar.

[kexodusc]

Just to add...to the 2 yamaha users...Direct mode will not send LFE to the subwoofer.
2 Ch stereo mode on the 5760 and other newer Yamaha receivers is not the best to use for 2-channel stereo listening, as it is intended to downmix multi-channel signals and is an additional stage of processing...instead use the "Straight" mode for an unprocessed playback.

Audiophile, your receiver has a "Stereo/Effect" switch which will process the LFE signals but cancel other processing...here, your best bet is to set the speakers to "small", the receiver to "subwoofer" (not both), and turn the frequency cutoff on the subwoofer plate amp all the way up so the receiver does the crossover.

[Audiophile]

Just to add...to the 2 yamaha users...Direct mode will not send LFE to the subwoofer.
2 Ch stereo mode on the 5760 and other newer Yamaha receivers is not the best to use for 2-channel stereo listening, as it is intended to downmix multi-channel signals and is an additional stage of processing...instead use the "Straight" mode for an unprocessed playback.

Audiophile, your receiver has a "Stereo/Effect" switch which will process the LFE signals but cancel other processing...here, your best bet is to set the speakers to "small", the receiver to "subwoofer" (not both), and turn the frequency cutoff on the subwoofer plate amp all the way up so the receiver does the crossover.

thanks for the claifying,
yes, with setting to Stereo and direct mode on my receiver, there is LFE signals but weak ones. (setting: small, yes subwoofer)
i tried the setting that u suggested, however, the bass compared to the L/R Preamp out(settting: Large, No subwoofer) is weaker. Is it because LFE only has 1 input, whereas L/R has 2 rca cable connected to subwoofer? (but according to the subwoofer manual, it says using or without using Y connector aids the same result. =(

[kexodusc]

That's pretty odd...
My RX-V1400 is very very similar to your receiver, these settings work great on mine...and I used the "Effect Off" on my older RX-V795a...same good results.

Audiophile, is the LFE or subwoofer Level setting on your receiver at 0 dB or whatever, or is something else?
How much gain do you have on the subwoofers volume level...I think most receivers recommend setting the sub level gain to 11 or 12 o'clock position and letting the receiver do the rest...

In the end go with what sounds best to you...

FYI: I use the Y-splitter to connect my subwoofer, it does get noticeably louder, I'd say 3 or 4 dB.

[Audiophile]

That's pretty odd...
My RX-V1400 is very very similar to your receiver, these settings work great on mine...and I used the "Effect Off" on my older RX-V795a...same good results.

Audiophile, is the LFE or subwoofer Level setting on your receiver at 0 dB or whatever, or is something else?
How much gain do you have on the subwoofers volume level...I think most receivers recommend setting the sub level gain to 11 or 12 o'clock position and letting the receiver do the rest...

In the end go with what sounds best to you...

FYI: I use the Y-splitter to connect my subwoofer, it does get noticeably louder, I'd say 3 or 4 dB.

i did set it to 0db on the sub level, and for the subwoofer volume level, i set to 10o'clock.
the only thing it is different is with the L/R preamp out put, setting the subwoofer volume level at 10o'clock is louder than subwoofer (LFE) out at 10o'clock.

yea, i am confused too, i think my 1300 is very similar to yours.
what is ur subwoofer
and u are using "direct", "stereo" and LFE output for listening to stereo music?

[Stu-r]

But to make sure, isn't it true that in Pure Direct mode (bypass mode) in Stereo and playing CD; the sub pre-out doesn't have signal?
does the pre out only have signals when it is in DTS or playing DVD formats?

There should be a setting that perrmits bass to go to the receiver's subwoofer jack as a supplement to "large" front speakers. The section on subwoofer output in the manual should tell you how to do this. I'm out of town at the moment or I'd check it out in the manual for you. But if you contact technical support at Yamaha, they should be able to tell you how to do this.

[Audiophile]

There should be a setting that perrmits bass to go to the receiver's subwoofer jack as a supplement to "large" front speakers. The section on subwoofer output in the manual should tell you how to do this. I'm out of town at the moment or I'd check it out in the manual for you. But if you contact technical support at Yamaha, they should be able to tell you how to do this.

thanks, i will read the manual on subwoofer section again and see if there is any setting i am setting it incorrectly =(