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3-LockBox
12-16-2004, 05:54 PM
Is Caravan kinda sorta like Camel? They're music is referred to as 'Canterbury'...whatever that is. I've read good things about the album, but as always, I value your opinions most.

unleasHell
12-16-2004, 11:03 PM
they are a lot more folky (with less synth and keyboards). I have a few of their Lp's which I haven't listened to in years, so my comment is from memory...

richmon
12-17-2004, 05:54 AM
Is Caravan kinda sorta like Camel? They're music is referred to as 'Canterbury'...whatever that is. I've read good things about the album, but as always, I value your opinions most.
From the allmusic description, couldn’t type it any better:
“which showed off a keen melodic sense, a subtly droll wit, and a seductively smooth mix of hard rock, folk, classical, and jazz, intermingled with elements of Tolkien-esque fantasy”
This is a desert islander for me. It leans more on the symphonic progressive side than the jazz rock/fusion side of the Cantebury style, it’s the pinnacle of Cantebury imho. Full of distorted organ and whimsical lyrics, after having listened to it for the past thirty years I still don't get tired of it.

One way to test if you’d like this is –do you like Genesis’s ‘Trespass’ album? In a way, it’s similar in that the focus is equally mixed between the musicianship, melody, and the lyrics. However there is that distorted organ throughout the album that’ll scratch the musicianship itch.

I have the re-mastered CD, which adds three or four new songs. The first bonus track is excellent, the others throwaway and spoil the mood of the album just a little. However the improved sonics offset the spoiling effect the clunkers have on this gem.
I don’t find any of the other Caravan albums to be close to this this one – There was some sharing of band members between Camel and Caravan, but they are different than Camel, less guitar centered, more organ led. Caravan’s singer has a distinctive voice too.

DarrenH
12-17-2004, 06:06 AM
The Canterbury reference relates to a 'scene' and a place of origin for this style of music the most famous of which was the band Soft Machine. Others include Gong, Egg, Hatfield and the North, National Health and of course, Caravan.

The music itself has a sort of whimsical feel about it but nothing as satirical or quirky as Zappa was. It's distinctly British.

Land Of Grey And Pink was Caravan's best imo. The 22 minute epic "Nine Feet Underground" is perhaps one of the best tunes they ever did if not the entire genre. The remaster includes some bonus tracks and has a nice sound to it overall. If you want to explore the 'Canterbury' scene I couldn't think of a better band, or album for that matter, to start with.

Darren

BarryL
12-17-2004, 07:32 AM
Is Caravan kinda sorta like Camel? They're music is referred to as 'Canterbury'...whatever that is. I've read good things about the album, but as always, I value your opinions most.


This is a great album. Well worth taking the plunge, IMO. I also like For Girls Who Grow Plump In The Night. The songs often wander a bit, and aren't "rock driven." But that's part of the Canterbury thing. Fine musicians with a good sense of melody that produced a lot of good music but never had wide appeal. Go for it. If you don't like this one, then you don't like Caravan. If you like this one, then check out their other albums from the early '70's. Like other progressive bands of the time, they also worked with orchestras. If that interests you, then you might want to check out Caravan and the New Symphonia from 1974.

jack70
12-17-2004, 10:59 AM
I've never liked the term "canterbury" myself, although I know what they mean. But I have my own (unique) ways of classifying music.

Caravan is a band one could list among the very few original "prog" bands, although they got virtually none of the attention that other early artists of that type did (Moody's, K Crimson). I'd place them along with Soft Machine & Pink Floyd as the earliest (68), and least known (at the time) British bands who were truly branching out their sound from the pop of that time towards experimental (prog) rather than harder rock (pre-metal & boogie & blues... Cream, Hendrix, Zep etc). In fact they are rarely mentioned as early Prog innovators, even though they predate almost ALL the others.

Caravan's first album was virtually unseen over here, yet many consider it their fave Caravan album. Their next album If I Could Do It All Over Again, I'd Do It All Over You, sold pretty well and got airplay, principlly from college radio at the time. But later Caravan went more into their jazzy and even symphonic directions, so it's hard to properly describe their sound. Just like with K Crimson or Pink Floyd, you had vastly different sounds in those bands from their first, to later albums.

Grey & Pink is a great album IMO, it's smooth and well produced, and appealing to a wide range of music fans, not just prog fans... you could call it a "crossover" kinda album, maybe like The Yes Album was (but it's not a Rock album like that was). I consider "Winter Wine" a great song myself, especially with headphones (more intimacy with the mood), and the whole LP is pretty close to a perfect 10, including the cover. So, it's a "classic" Prog album fer sure. I don't think any would NOT include it on a top-20 classic era UK prog album list.

They don't sound much like any other band. I guess they share a little of Camel's sound, but Camel has a wide range of sounds over their career too. Caravan is slightly more jazzy, where Camel is more spacey-prog, at least in the fills and background. Whether one likes 'em, only you can decide. But I guarantee there are plenty who would buy it from you if you don't. I consider them on the top-tier of well-known, productive, influential, and good UK prog bands of that era (K Crimson, ELP, PFloyd, GGiant, VDGG, Genesis, Yes). And their high-profile is one reason I've never comped them myself (on my comps)... just too well known.

BarryL
12-17-2004, 11:06 AM
I consider them on the top-tier of well-known, productive, influential, and good UK prog bands of that era (K Crimson, ELP, PFloyd, GGiant, VDGG, Genesis, Yes).

I can't get enough VDGG and Peter Hammill. There's something about his existential writing and general weirdness and unpredicatbility that I love. A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers is among the best prog songs ever, IMO.

Apparently, the original band has been recording a new VDGG album slated for a spring '05 release. Yeah, Baby!

jack70
12-19-2004, 09:15 AM
I can't get enough VDGG and Peter Hammill. There's something about his existential writing and general weirdness and unpredicatbility that I love. A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers is among the best prog songs ever, IMO.
Apparently, the original band has been recording a new VDGG album slated for a spring '05 release. Yeah, Baby! I always shake my head when old bands try to reconstitute old "magic"... it's usually too difficult a "trick" to pull off. All too often it makes em look like they're trying to make some quick cash, or they appear like they're pretending they're still 20-ish. Having said that, I'm also curious about VDGG since they're quite different than yer average band, fer sure. And "Prog music" doesn't betray the basic R&R ethic quite as much as other old gray-hairs (like say Jagger) still singing about teenage angst. Btw, didn't Hammill have some medical emergency not that long ago?

I have 2 books of Peter's poems, lyrics (all), stories, and other stuff he put out back in the 70's. I agree with "A Plague...", (and the whole LP). One of my minor complaints of it are the limits of the production technology Peter had at that time... I wonder how it might have turned out if he had multitrack digital music compositional systems available back then. On that album especially, he uses a LOT of tracks and layering techniques.

Peter lists notes in his books about his songs... this one for "A Plague..." is relatively short:

There is not very much I can say about this by way of classification or enhancement: extrapolation would inevitably destroy. I will, therefore, let it speak for its clandestine self, save only to say that it is a cinematic presentation of 'self' in several possible matrices.

BTW, I took out my LP copy of "Grey & Pink"... I'd forgotten what a great cover this was. It's a double-fold out, printed on delicate soft-surface stock with great pastel (water-color-ish) colors. I think it's clearly one of the most beautiful covers in my whole collection (which is considerable). It's artwork like this that highlights the limitations of the CD.