Ok Here We Go:Definitve technology Bp7002, Mirage OM-7, or Paradigm studio 100 v3

[meephis]

I am having a little dilema with speaker purchasing here. I'm not sure what to do. All three of these are excellent but in the end there must be only one, or two.......no only one pair! By the three choices I'm sure you can tell my tastes in a speaker, anyways I value your input so lay it on me!

[midfiguy]

I've gotta say, actually, from your post, it's quite hard to tell your taste... ...seeing as how the Definitve and the Paradigm sound SO different. The paradigm is so much more in your face while the definitive with it's bipolar sound quite different!

Anyways, all I can suggest if you're going to buy speakers of this price, audition them ALL in your home if you have to. Find a way, because they could all end up sounding very different at home vs. in the store.

[kexodusc]

Not sure what you're hoping for here...Asking what's the best speaker is like asking what's the best ice cream flavour (which everyone knows is vanilla).
You'll get a large variety of answers I'm sure...but if you can't listen to all 3 of these and pick one that really pleases you for the money, then you haven't found the speaker that's right for you.

I'm not a big fan of any of those for the money they sell for, but I think I'd lean towards the OM-7's (and I own other Paradigm Studio speakers). Now that you know my answer, is your decision any easier?

[N. Abstentia]

Choosing from those three, my choice would be Paradigm. But that's just MY choice.

And the best ice cream flavor is Blue Moon :)

[Wireworm5]

I agree after you've sampled all the different flavors of ice cream vanilla is still the best, you can add your own toppings and use it for making milkshakes.
You haven't given us enough details to help make your decision. What size room, prefered music etc.
Myself I like the Paradigm Studio 100 v2 which from what I here is better than their new version. But I would still consider this speaker along with a good power amp if you like hard hitting clean bass. You won't need a sub with these as they go pretty low and will be better than any cheap sub. This is a dominent speaker properly powered and it easily outclasses my other Paradigm Monitor speakers. They are tonely very accurate and good for all types of music but exceptional for rock. Audiophiles say that one of the hardest instruments to reproduce accurately is the piano. Hook a good source up to this speaker and you will get a very pleasing piano sound. Be sure though to listen for yourself as others have suggested already. I'm just pointing out the strengths of this speaker when others on this forum will tell you it's too expensive and you can find better for less.

[Pat D]

I am having a little dilema with speaker purchasing here. I'm not sure what to do. All three of these are excellent but in the end there must be only one, or two.......no only one pair! By the three choices I'm sure you can tell my tastes in a speaker, anyways I value your input so lay it on me!
I am not familiar with the DefTech, but I have heard the other two. The Paradigm Reference Studio 100, v. 3, is a wide dispersion forward radiating speaker while the Mirage OM-7 is a bipolar speaker, not quite omnidirectional in the horizontal plane. The DefTech is also bipolar as I see from its specs and it should have very deep response because it contains a powered subwoofer. DefTech has a pretty good reputation, too, but I haven't heard any for a long time.

The Mirage OM-7 is quite a nice speaker with a somewhat laid back upper midrange but with the highs back up to level. My impression is that it would do best in a large room. We did have a pair in for a home trial and are a pleasant speaker, forgiving of some bright program material, but I thought they lacked some of the attack on piano and were too laid back on the upper strings. As I recall, they were very good on male and female vocals and had good bass response--though the deep bass response really isn't a factor for me since I have a subwoofer.

I didn't spend nearly as much time with the Paradigm Studio 100, v. 3, as I was primarily wanting to hear the Signature 8. The Studio 100 throws quite a broad stereo image well maintained off center due to its wide dispersion. I found them to be rather more colored than the Signature 8.

PSB Stratus speakers are somewhat more difficult to drive, I think, but you could look at the Stratus Silver which is in your price range. I have always found the PSB Stratus Series speakers to be quite neutral and uncoloured, and they have excellent dispersion. I myself own the Stratus Minis. That means I personally preferred the PSB Stratus line to either the Paradigm Reference Version 3 and the Mirage OM lines, but those are good speakers and I know people who own and are pleased with both lines. As I say, the DefTech speakers seem to be very good, too.

Whether you prefer forward radiating or bipole speakers probably will depend a great deal on your listening room and placement. There are quite a number of good speakers available besides Paradigm Reference, Mirage OM, DefTech BP, and PSB Stratus, so I would suggest you listen to a number of them and try the main contenders out at home.

[meephis]

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to ask you guys to tell me whats better (I know thats impossible), I just want to know if any of you had any experience with them and what your impressions are.

[markw]

As for those speakers, my personap preference of the afornemtioned three is "none of the above".

For one who can hear "night and day" differences in cables I would think choosing between three distinctly different speakers would be a cinch. ..or is this decision being done by a vote?

FWIW, each is a solid performers in their own right, cach is put out by reputable companies and each have their fans and detractors. Which flavor do YOU like?

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice.

[RGA]

Well I have not heard the DefTechs but between the other two - I would personally start a new list. The Paradigm V2 is better IMO and the Mirage looks better on paper and nifty design than it actually sounds in real life. Then again, you are not me because you obviously liked them enough to put them on your finalists list.

Really, you don't need any of us telling you squat about which sounds best to you - all we can do is talk about our subjective experience with them and what we would do. For the Price of the Paradigm 100V3 you could buy the Energy C9 and (have close a near Cdn clone) $1500.00 left - you'd have the speaker's equal (give or take a smidge) and could donate the rest to charity or buy a really good turntable, more cd's a big screen TV, a laptop etc.

Or you could check out Dynaudio's Auience 82 Or PMC's transmission line speakers. With PMC's TB2 you could also probably swing the matching Bryston Power pack built in amp. The new TB2 has upgraded to a soft dome tweeter from the metal one they were using (which was just about the only annoying thing about the old version was the edgy top end).

[Woochifer]

Myself I like the Paradigm Studio 100 v2 which from what I here is better than their new version. But I would still consider this speaker along with a good power amp if you like hard hitting clean bass. You won't need a sub with these as they go pretty low and will be better than any cheap sub. This is a dominent speaker properly powered and it easily outclasses my other Paradigm Monitor speakers. They are tonely very accurate and good for all types of music but exceptional for rock. Audiophiles say that one of the hardest instruments to reproduce accurately is the piano. Hook a good source up to this speaker and you will get a very pleasing piano sound. Be sure though to listen for yourself as others have suggested already. I'm just pointing out the strengths of this speaker when others on this forum will tell you it's too expensive and you can find better for less.

Whether theStudio 100 v.2 is better than the 100 v.3 would depend on who you're hearing this from. From my listenings with the Studio 20 and 40 (I own the v.2 versions), the newer v.3 versions improved upon the v.2 models in just about every aspect, except for the bass extension and the higher prices. The highs and midrange are a little more refined than before, but the biggest improvement is with the imaging, which was already excellent with the previous models but is now about as good as I've heard in this price class from a conventional box speaker. And with the bass, the differentiation with the low notes is a notable improvement, so you are actually to some degree trading quantity for quality.

With the 100s, I do read occasional grumblings about how the bass is not as deep as before, but most of the posts on this and other boards that I've read about 100 v.3 indicate that overall it did improve upon the v.2 model as well, and in the same ways that I observed with the 20 and 40. If the change in the bass with the 100 is anything like what I observed with the other Studio series models, then you're trading some extension for an improvement in the differentiation and the coherency of the low notes. The v.2 Studio series speakers were voiced with a slight bump up in the midbass and slightly lower extension, and with the v.3 series, the frequency response in the bass range is more linear.

As for the original post, Def Tech, Mirage, and Paradigm are pretty different in what they're trying to accomplish and their approaches. I'm not a fan of omnipolar or bipolar speakers in general, and I own a set of Paradigm Studios, so you don't need me to tell you what my preferences are.

I actually think that your choices have some pretty marked contrasts. Go with whatever speaker best speaks to what you're looking for. If you plan to eventually expand your set into a 5.1 setup, the other thing to look out for is how well the ancillary center and surround speakers match the mains, and how well they sound as a unit. Sometimes, the quality of a company's center and surround speakers dropoff a lot rom their main speakers.

[meephis]

markw,
we're talking about speakers here not wire, and that comment "the difference was night and day" was when comparing a $20 and a $200 pair of cables and their WAS a clear audible difference and you've got no room to talk considering you weren't there! If I participated in a test and I didn't hear a freakin' difference I would have said so, and I have no problem with you saying you don't, I would take your word for it and not insult your intelligence by calling you a liar. Different people hear different things, plain and simple and this thread is not some sort of vote I was trying to get user feedback, to see if anyone had any problems with them and compare them a little more accurately.

[kexodusc]

Well I have not heard the DefTechs but between the other two - I would personally start a new list. The Paradigm V2 is better IMO and the Mirage looks better on paper and nifty design than it actually sounds in real life. Then again, you are not me because you obviously liked them enough to put them on your finalists list.

Really, you don't need any of us telling you squat about which sounds best to you - all we can do is talk about our subjective experience with them and what we would do. For the Price of the Paradigm 100V3 you could buy the Energy C9 and (have close a near Cdn clone) $1500.00 left - you'd have the speaker's equal (give or take a smidge) and could donate the rest to charity or buy a really good turntable, more cd's a big screen TV, a laptop etc.

Or you could check out Dynaudio's Auience 82 Or PMC's transmission line speakers. With PMC's TB2 you could also probably swing the matching Bryston Power pack built in amp. The new TB2 has upgraded to a soft dome tweeter from the metal one they were using (which was just about the only annoying thing about the old version was the edgy top end).
Bad advice on the C-9's...they sound worse than the Monitor 9's IMO, and look a bit goofier too. Though the new plastic plate on the front of the v4 Monitor 9's leaves something to be desired...

Great advice on the PMC TB2's...those would wipe the floor with the Studio 100's, IMO. I'll second that one!!!

[RGA]

Kex

Agreed that the C9's build quality is not nearly as good as the paradigms nor does it look as good - but the 100V3 sonically is to me pretty terrible for a speaker that in Canada after taxes will run $3,000.00+ I'm sorry but a hollow sounding nasal dynamically inept speaker with laid back top end that sounds out of place with the woofers can be had for a lot less money. Or for significanlty less money you can buy the better sounding quality and quantity - and what looks to be better build 100V2 for a heckuva lot less money than this overpriced model. The monitor series while i'm not a big fan of either - has a counterpart in the 9 and 11 that for about 1/3 the price would have me taking a step back. The studio series is not better enough IMO to justify paying double and a half the price for. Simply because if i'm going to pay double and half the monitor series then I would want good speakers - the Studio 100V3 is not IMO a good speaker for $2700+tax - it would be a good speaker for about $300.00Cdn more than the Monitor series).

[kexodusc]

RGA:
I can agree with that almost wholeheartedly. I've not heard the v2 side by side with the v3 to make a statement on which was better, but a $3000 Studio 100 (if that's what it sells for here) is steep compared to alot of other offerings. At 3.5 times what I paid for my Studio 20's last year here in Canada, there's something wrong.
I have this beef with most speakers that are sold as "series" or "lines". Some companies like Totem, Focus Audio, Audio Note, and even B&W to an extent, concentrate more on building the best speaker they can build at a certain price, regardless of shape or size, rather than a making a speaker "theme" across a price range offered in different sizes with differing levels of performance.
This "one design fits all" works sometimes, but only up to a certain point. The Studio 100, while better than some speakers it competes with I'm sure, is an example IMO. It wasn't hard for me to decide to go with the 40's and a sub instead of the 100's.
Just my opinion though.

[RGA]

Kex this is my biggest issue with both the new Paradigm and B&W 700.

Simply put both lines went up in price drastically - Now I don;t know about you buy when I go from one speaker to another and pay $500.00 MORE (which is the case for the 705 over the CDM 1NT and the 100V3 over the 100V2) I expect a pretty massivce improvement - it's no wonder there are people who say diminishing returns stops(or is strong) around $2K. To me when you pay more you should get an improvement EVERYWHERE in the sonics and build. The 100V2 was a better built product by appearance had more deeper bass and people can argue that the new one's bass sounds better even though there is less - but IMO that's a copout(and I personally don't agree) but even if I did - for the extra 25% more money I want the same bass depth of the 100

Improved bass sound or the same bass sound but deeper - in other words you either take the speaker and make it sound BETTER all actross the board with each up market model -alla Audio Note - OR and every bit as viable take the speaker make it sound pretty much the same but add bandwidth. Like a standmount versus floorstander you get the same sound but you add bass(few of course do it well because when they add bass many companies also add resonance(which is why the monitor 5 sounds better than the monitor 7) - probably because they keep using cheap cabinetry - not a complaint a constraint of the price point perhaps) but it CAN be done and IS done - the Dynaudio 82 loses nothing to the 52 for example but adds value by adding fuller range sound. Of course the 82's price is stratospheric compared to the Monitor 7.

My complaint is more about value than the actual sound. I believe you should get more when you pay more and it's dissapointing to me that these companies with deep pockets and impressive papers to advertise can produce such banal sounding speakers that smaller speaker makers murder em at 1/2 the price - it SHOULD be the other way around.

[kexodusc]

Well on this we're on the same page here, I've always maintained the Monitor 7 and Monitor 9 are not twice the speaker the Mini Monitor is...not even close. Someone would be far further ahead with the Studio 20's.
This applies to just about every speaker I can think of under $1500 or so though, and many more.

I would be very interested to hear the speaker if Paradigm would just use braced MDF cabinetry on their larger floorstanders though. I suspect the added cost over particle board isn't the determining factor as much as weight for shipping is. Who knows.

At the same time, to be fair to Paradigm and B&W, the Monitor 7 is still quite cheap and would offer someone a somewhat full-range speaker if they were just interested in 2-channel stereo. I suspect the speaker family approach is a necessary evil in the industry to keep costs down and allow B&W, Paradigm to earn a buck.
I still think size and # of drivers sells speakers more than actual sound does too.

[meephis]

I'll keep this in mind and be sure to check on the lower models in the series (I usually do anyways) and try to determine the difference in sound between them as it would be easy to buy the lower model and just beef up the subwoofer a little if there really is no difference in the mid & upper ranges. :)

[kexodusc]

I wouldn't say there's no differences in the midrange. There's inevitably some, and in my opinion as you add drivers you complicate things for the worse in this price range. The highs are pretty much the same.
Just make sure when you demo, that you level match the volumes. Big speakers are usually louder, at a given setting on the volume dial, this doesn't necessarily mean they sound better!
And take whatever your salesperson says with a grain of salt...hold on to your wallet :D

[RGA]

I'll keep this in mind and be sure to check on the lower models in the series (I usually do anyways) and try to determine the difference in sound between them as it would be easy to buy the lower model and just beef up the subwoofer a little if there really is no difference in the mid & upper ranges. :)

The thing is more drivers and big boxes impresses people *guys* with insecurity :D I don't know but there is word KISS - Keep It Simple Silly.

Imagine a two way design one crossover(less hickups passing from driver to driver), smaller box(less resonances), less drivers means it MAY be using more expensive drivers than 3-4 cheaper drivers, less shipping costs(which gets dumped into the price), better cabinet materials(not always).

Some standmounts however lose bass, loudness, sensitivity(ease of drive so you need a more powerful amp), plus you have to buy the stand. And for many a subwoofer.

To get the standmounts that get around the bass and dnamics and sensitivity issues costs significant money but for bozed speakers I prefer that approach.

When I was buying speakers I leaned toward dynamics because in my view it is the lifeblood of music - I like a speaker that sounds good at very low volumes and is full range at low volumes - I hate speakers that sound like i need to keep turning the volume up in order to make out the brush strokes I know is there but not with many a speaker. Turning it up and up and then you want to get a new more powerful amp - say a Bryston (seen this before? upgrade the amp to FIX the speaker which can not be fixed but we try real hard). But boy we got rid of the colour - and 40% of the music but we got rid of the colour?

The problem on my hunt was the most of the best dynamic speakers were horns which are limited in selection for most non DIY folks, I like Stats for low volume but not much else and certainly not for dynamics. See the problems are many, Stats met one criteria failed on the others, Horns were excellent but limited and many were shouty and they typiclaly didn't get under 40hz.

I like standmounts for the "speed" they ehibit without that big boxy flabby sound you get from most floorstanders(at least within a sane budget). So you have to ork to find the speaker that's going to meet the criteria - I wanted a speaker that could do the stat low volume thing with a fast quick sound of some of the better stanmounts I've heard, I wanted the dynamics so I didn;t need to always want to turn it up to hear everything and not gut most of the signal, and I wanted prodigious deep bass response under 40hz and solid bass under 30hz to capture 98% of the world's recordings knowing the last 2% is lost due to the fact I don't have deep pockets.

I found it for me - try and find one for you - even if you have to wait and save - get it right or you could be on upgrade mode.

[meephis]

Hmm......
Some interesting points of view, and I think that a lot can be said about the tastes of ones ears. I prefer the sound of a (gererally larger) fuller range speaker even though although I agree that they don't have the speed of the smaller ones, reason being I like them to have a little more UMMPH!!! to take some of the load off of my subwoofer. But generally, at least I have found, that the somewhat sanely priced subwoofers don't blend smoothly with the small speakers, just flat out not being able to keep up with the smaller, faster standmounts. The standmounts are excellent in terms of mid and high frequencies, even in the upper bass region they can sometimes be incredible, BUT then there are the lower frequencies in which you almost need to have that subwoofer. I haven't ruled them out of course, but I have owned them before and it's just a little too much dependency on the subwoofer IMO. But thats just an opinion though, and there are certainly many models out there that can do the job, but a lot of them are a batsh#t insane kind of expensive. I do however COMPLETELY agree that a lot of people are drawn in by the size and number of drivers in a speaker and not the sound, and its very sad, and kind of disturbing. :eek: The problem is that they don't even give the smaller speakers a chance, not knowing their true sound capabilities. I think that the people at Best Buy, Circuit City, Rex TV, etc. need to be educated on the basics of speaker performance and the benefits of smaller drivers and not try to sell a pair of speakers with 15" drivers to someone with a 10' X 8' room, its rediculous. Anyways I just had to get that out of my system......ok all better now. :) Well thanx for the insight so far on this topic, and even your opinions that are off topic, as I like hearing other people's honest opinions. :D