B & W 602 vs 603

[fastmiele]

Hello, I have an important decision to make. Should I buy the B & W 602 or 603 ?

I have been looking at purchasing a home theatre system for a few months now. I first started at Best Buy/Future Shop and listened to all their speakers in the demo room and wanted something a bit better than the Polk Audio Polk Ti 10 and Athena FS 2 speakers. I quickly realized that you get what you pay for so I started searching many of the specialized home audio stores in Toronto. The two best speakers I have found that fit my listening style is B & W 602 and 603. I really enjoyed the sound of the 603 based on limited test tracks inside the stores, but some of my friends say that the 603 may not be the best choice for me because its a 2.5 speaker system. They say that the passive/radiation speaker may provide a sweeter sound and more bass, but its bad because there is no current driving it and needs to be helped by the mid-range speaker (which requires more current from the receiver/Amp and also loss in the voice reproduction ?). Another bad point is that the 603 only has a 6.5" mid range driver where the 602 has a 7" mid range speaker.

My friends say its more beneficial for me to buy the 602 because of the larger mid-range driver and that I will save about $500 CDN which will be put towards the sub-woofer (which they say is much better than the passive/radiation speaker on the 603).

After hearing this information I have to kind of wonder what is the point of the 603 ? Its about $500 more and I would easily made it up with the sub-woofer. The only logical thing that I have been told is that the 603 is more suitable speaker for a two channel speaker stereo system while the 602 is better for a home theatre system.

If anyone can provide any advice/enlightment I would greatly appreciate your help.

Some notes I guess would be helpful.
I like listening to specific types of music: The Corrs, Celine Dion, Bond, Cranberries.
I was thinking of buying this set up:
BW 602 or 603 (fronts), 60 (centre), 600 (subwoofer), 600 (rears), Rotel 1056 or Intergra 5.1 receiver
I plan on using the system in 2 channel mode 70 % of the time and 30 % for DVD concerts (5 channel).
Room size 10 feet X 15 feet
budget $3 - 4,000 CDN before tax

[NickWH]

My friends say its more beneficial for me to buy the 602 because of the larger mid-range driver and that I will save about $500 CDN which will be put towards the sub-woofer (which they say is much better than the passive/radiation speaker on the 603).

Look, with either speaker you will want a subwoofer for surround sound. In your size room either speaker will put out adequate bass and dynamics for music. You will NOT save $500 going with the bookshelf speakers because you have to figure in the cost of good quality speaker stands.

If you were choosing between the 602 and the 602.5, I would say go with the 602. But the 603 is a good tower speaker for the money (BTW, that's a real woofer in there, not a passive radiator. Look up the definition of a 2.5-way speaker). You should choose based upon which you think sounds better. From what I'm reading here it doesn't sound like your friends know too much about home audio.

P.S. Go with the Rotel receiver.

[RGA]

Well your friends are probably not too far off - some think the 603 is the weakest value. I don;t hink you should worry about the 2.5 way design because based off of my auditions the speakers don't seem to have any issues - in fact it's one of the cleanest sounding floorstanders I have come across for the money.

Still I tend to agree with the idea to a degree that the 602S3 is the way to go - if home theater is the main thing then the 602S3 with a sub is a better bet. In fact some people would rather listen to music with the 602S3 and a sub over the 603 or the 604.

Basically if Home theater is going to be your primary main thing - I would even consider the 601S3 and possibly use the extra money and get two subwoofers or use the money for the best 600 series center channel.

[dongrod]

Hi.

just wanna ask something.
Isn't the 600 series prone to sibilance? I read a review on 602s3 and 604s3 (separate reviews) and it said they produce some amount of sibilance. Is this true?

[Wireworm5]

I have the 601's, they have a very good treble which is on the sharp side which is why I bought them, cause I wanted some edge in guitar rock music. I would say that the tweeter is comparable to the tweeter in my Paradigm Studio 100's v2. Compared to my Monitor 9 v2 the tweeter is the monitors is smoothed over and doesn't have this edge that you get with the 601's. As for sibilance I only notice this in the 601's with low quality mp3's . If you can hear this sibilance I can see it being very irratating if you have senitive ears.

[NickWH]

I would even consider the 601S3 and possibly use the extra money and get two subwoofers

Yes, that's what everyone needs in their 10x15ft room, TWO subwoofers.

[dongrod]

I have the 601's, they have a very good treble which is on the sharp side which is why I bought them, cause I wanted some edge in guitar rock music. I would say that the tweeter is comparable to the tweeter in my Paradigm Studio 100's v2. Compared to my Monitor 9 v2 the tweeter is the monitors is smoothed over and doesn't have this edge that you get with the 601's. As for sibilance I only notice this in the 601's with low quality mp3's . If you can hear this sibilance I can see it being very irratating if you have senitive ears.


Using the same equipment and accesories, can you say that your monitor 9 produces lesser, or even, no sibilance as compared with your DM601? Do you think it would also be true with the mini monitor?
Im leaning towards this two models, firstly on DM601s3, but I feel some hesitation upon reading that review which states that the 600 series, particularly 602 and 604, produces some amount of sibilance.
Im very sensitive to that excessive "sssh", both on vocals and dialogue. For me, its very irritating, very unpleasant to my ears.
Thanks

[Wireworm5]

Paradigms have come out with a 3 & 4th version which I haven't heard, mine are version 2 which have a smoothed over treble. It's possible you might find the B&W 600 sries a tad harsh so don't take my word for it and be sure to audition them yourself. I had a brief addition of some Klipsch speakers today. I thought the treble/tweeter was liquidy smooth. But it's difficult to compare what I heard in the show room to what I hear on my home system. Be sure to check Klipsch out too, you might like em.

[kexodusc]

I really enjoyed the sound of the 603 based on limited test tracks inside the stores, but some of my friends say that the 603 may not be the best choice for me because its a 2.5 speaker system. They say that the passive/radiation speaker may provide a sweeter sound and more bass, but its bad because there is no current driving it and needs to be helped by the mid-range speaker (which requires more current from the receiver/Amp and also loss in the voice reproduction ?). I'm not sure the 603 is a passive radiator design...but even if it is, your friend's assessment is wrong. I'm not sure where the "more current from the amp" statement comes from either? More active drivers does NOT equal better sound. It just equals more drivers. There's many different ways to design and build a speaker...passive radiator vs. 2.5 way vs. 3-way is just one of many decisions. Different ways of arriving at the same destination. I like the 600 series, I think you're off to a good start



Another bad point is that the 603 only has a 6.5" mid range driver where the 602 has a 7" mid range speaker. Yes, and this could actually be a negative...the extra 1/2" won't do much for the all important midrange, just the bass, and it might have to be crossed over at a lower point, hence putting more strain on the tweeter. However, I doubt these points weren't considered in the design...I wouldn't sweat it. My point here is, again, there's plenty of options to consider in a speaker design...I'm pretty sure B&W did what they felt was best...your best bet is to try to listen to the two speakers and see which YOU prefer.


My friends say its more beneficial for me to buy the 602 because of the larger mid-range driver and that I will save about $500 CDN which will be put towards the sub-woofer (which they say is much better than the passive/radiation speaker on the 603). First, the larger mid-range driver isn't going to help the mid-range at all...it's going to help the bass. Second, as was mentioned above, include $100-150 CDN for some good stands (anything more is fine, if you've got a really good reason, but in all honesty probably overkill for the 602's). You can probably do much better buying used stands or shopping around...try to get something that isn't hollow, and is fairly sturdy. Steel, or MDF is preferable.
That allows you $350 towards a better subwoofer. Yes, based on my listening experiences with the 600 line, I think this is probably the better option if you are considering a combination music/home theater system. Especially for multi-channel audio...the subwoofer will really lend itself to the lower frequencies, better than the 603 floorstanders will produce, while relieving the mid-range drivers of the burden of producing bass. This quite often helps the mid-range driver sound even better.


After hearing this information I have to kind of wonder what is the point of the 603 ? Its about $500 more and I would easily made it up with the sub-woofer. The only logical thing that I have been told is that the 603 is more suitable speaker for a two channel speaker stereo system while the 602 is better for a home theatre system.

Yeah, the 603 has more bass if you're only buying 2 speakers...some people probably really do like it better than the 602 even with a subwoofer though...
To tell you the truth, I can't think of any bookshelf speaker less than $1500 CDN that I actually don't prefer more than its floorstanding cousin. Even for music. Maybe I like bookshelfs better, but I find they acheive better soundstage and imaging, while the bass from the floorstander models usually isn't impressive enough to justify the cost. I'm not against floorstanders, I just believe that manufacturers are gouging consumers as far prices go when it comes to floorstanders relative to their bookshelf counterparts. Again, you almost have to do a side by side demo for you to draw your own conclusions.

For multi channel music, get the best, center channel you can (provided it matches the main speakers) and use a good subwoofer with a low crossover point (ie: 60,50, or even 40Hz). I can't recall what the 600 series center channel options are.
No need for 2 subs in your system.

IMO, the Monitor series from Paradigm, and the 600 series are a little on the bright side, and have always been in every version I've heard...the Studio series is a bit smoother, but still on the bright side. But this doesn't mean any of these are bad...Myself (and many others) tend to like bright speakers, provided they aren't harsh - maybe I'm less sensitive to high-frequencies?
I find the 600's and Monitor line very, similar in overall performance with just some slight differences...I don't think I can honestly say I prefer one to the other. Again...take everything you hear from your friends, and read in reviews, with a grain of salt.
Speakers are very highly subjective...just like music is. What your friends, myself, or a reviewer likes, is probably considerably different from what you like. Make sure you buy the right speakers for you.

And finally, don't put your faith into everything your salesperson tells you. Use your own ears, determining which speakers you like more isn't hard at all and there's never a right or wrong answer. Obviously salespeople have their own agenda they're trying to reach. A friend of mine who works in a small a/v shop frequently gets commission bonuses for "pushing" certain models based on current inventory levels of his store or the factory, and often they'll get factory to dealer incentives for selling so many of one type of model or another depending on the brands. He doesn't own in his own home any of the speakers he carries despite his opportunities for huge discounts.

Take your time...good luck.

P.S.
Wireworm: you own Studio 100's, Monitor 9's, and 601's??? Dude...you've got too many speakers. ;)

[fastmiele]

Thank you kexodusc and everyone else for your input. Its very insightful information and helps me make my decision making easier.

If I go with a Rotel 1056 over Integra 5.5 receiver (about $500 more), is there a significant performance difference ? My friend says that its a bit more juice than I need if I buy the 602 speaker system. Its hard to compare when every store I go the set up is different. One store doesn't have Integra and only has Rotel.

In Toronto, the best prices I have found for my wish list is :
BW 603 floorstands - $1200
BW 602 bookshelves - $700
BW 60 centre - $419
BW 600 rears - $429
Rotel 1056 - $1500

Is this about as cheap as I can get ?

Thanks again.

[kexodusc]

Well, your choice of receivers is hard to answer. Your basically asking, should I buy a Camaro or a Corvette...both will do the job...one will do it a bit better but cost a great chunk more.
To be honest, the Rotel is a far superior unit, but with the cost difference, I'm not so sure you will notice the benefit in this area more than if you were, say, to reinvest that $500 into better speakers/subwoofer. I bought a Rotel integrated amp for my stereo 2-channel system, though, and I love it. That Integra is probably more than receiver than you need, though. For the $1000 tag you're looking at, I'd consider comparable Yamaha or Denon units, a bit more cost friendly here in Canada. Just my opinion though, I do like that Integra unit. I'd go with $1000 for the receiver, the 602's, then buy the *****in'est sub you can find.

If you want to get even cheaper, you'll probably have to look at buying used gear. Shop around though, there's probably more than 1 B&W dealer in TO.
Since you are looking at the 602, I strongly recommend going with the LCR600 Center channel...this will allow you to have a cleaner integration of your front 3 speakers with your subwoofer...trust me on this. You should be able to cross it over at 60 Hz without issue, and enjoy the music. The bass on the smaller center channel begins to drop off a bit higher, and this could get annoying, especially in multi-channel audio (been there myself before).

[fastmiele]

I guess what I am getting at with the recievers is that I originally tried the Denon 2805 receiver with the BW 603 fronts and it sounded a bit sluggish. The salesperson said that you would normally use a better receiver for 603 speakers so he connected them to the Rotel 1056 receiver and the music CD which I brought came to life (much more brighter and lively). I asked the salesperson to switch over to the Arcam 200 reciever (which is almost the same price as the Rotel) and it sounded in between the Rotel and Denon (brightness and lively).

At another store I tried the Integra 5.5 and it sounded pretty close in terms of liveliness compared to Rotel 1056. I can look at all the specs I want but hearing is the final decision. The Denon 2805 is pretty much out of the picture. Its funny though because the Denon 2805 and Integra 5.5 is almost the same price so I am wondering how can there be such a distinct difference in performance ?

[Wireworm5]

I paid $600 for my Dm601's S3, that was 2 years ago, so I'd say those prices are what you'd expect to pay in Canada.
In my opinion, this is just based on my 601's, I haven't listened to the other speaker you mention. The 601's like the Paradigms are a neutral speaker. What you hear is only revealing your source and receiver/amp. Any deficiencies are likely due to these components than the speaker. If the the Rotel sounds better to you, than it probably is, cause these speakers are pretty revealing.
Also given your small room I would go with the bookshelves and a sub over the floorstanders. The sub will allow you to control the base better which could be a problem in this room. Personally if you had a larger room I'd go for the 604s and not use a sub, but that's me.
Anyways I think you' ll be quit happy with this set up and don't forget to add a good source. These speakers like any good speaker will only be as good as your weakest link.

[Dr. Seuss]

Which Klipschs did you audition?

[Wireworm5]

Which Klipschs did you audition?
I went there to buy an Sacd disk, the store didn't have any in stock but had two they used in demos. So I asked the salemans if he could play one for me, which happened to be on Klipsch speakers model ?35 or something, a Sony digital receiver and a HD Samsung DVD player. The speakers weren't placed in an optimal arrangement but was a 5.1 configuration. The salesman played the first sacd I tink it was Diana Krall who I'm not familiar with. He didn't really have the receiver figured out so the bass sounded like crap. I just thought to myself, don't worry about it, (the bass from my home system would put these to shame anyways). So then another saleman arrived who I happened to know from work and he plopped in the other sacd DSOTM-Pink Floyd. He played that briefly and adjusted the receiver properly and the bass was much better. That's when I became aware how liquidy smooth the highs sounded.
I concluded that I could not evaluate the sacd in this setting but left wondering if I'd like the Klipsch speakers better than my Paradigms.