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cpq1c1mo
11-29-2004, 04:35 AM
Just a little information for those of you who own these classic speakers and wonder why the foam surrounds are usually bad . There were 2 versions -The fist and original cat# 4024 had rubber surrounds, screw terminals, 10 screws in the L-pad plate, 8 ohm woofers and dual wound brass voice coils

The latter vesrions Cat # 4029 had the (known rotter) foam surround, clip terminals, 6 screws in the L-pad plate, and 4 ohm woofers this version also is the muddy whompy sounding machs that were released after 81' There are no comparison to the sound of the two different verions so beware of this verion on Ebay ect..they are junk .

The Original 4024's were manufactured by Thompson Electronics for Tandy from 77 to 81' the 4029's were made by Optimus from 82 to 84' and they were produced much cheaper to hold a changing market

If anyone has not experienced the original line of the Mach Ones (4024) you should take a listen the quailty of sound is unbelievable compared to todays market of speakers

Sir Terrence the Terrible
11-29-2004, 02:59 PM
Just a little information for those of you who own these classic speakers and wonder why the foam surrounds are usually bad . There were 2 versions -The fist and original cat# 4024 had rubber surrounds, screw terminals, 10 screws in the L-pad plate, 8 ohm woofers and dual wound brass voice coils

The latter vesrions Cat # 4029 had the (known rotter) foam surround, clip terminals, 6 screws in the L-pad plate, and 4 ohm woofers this version also is the muddy whompy sounding machs that were released after 81' There are no comparison to the sound of the two different verions so beware of this verion on Ebay ect..they are junk .

The Original 4024's were manufactured by Thompson Electronics for Tandy from 77 to 81' the 4029's were made by Optimus from 82 to 84' and they were produced much cheaper to hold a changing market

If anyone has not experienced the original line of the Mach Ones (4024) you should take a listen the quailty of sound is unbelievable compared to todays market of speakers

I used to own three original Mach Ones that I used in a small screening room. I must agree, these were the best sounding speakers(they were hand made I am told)I have heard for movie presentation in a small room. Great sound, even better construction
I finally passed them on to one of my son's who is following in his fathers footsteps. Even to this day, the speakers would easily compare in sound quality to almost all hometheater speakers I have heard up to this point.

cpq1c1mo
11-30-2004, 01:42 AM
I used to own three original Mach Ones that I used in a small screening room. I must agree, these were the best sounding speakers(they were hand made I am told)I have heard for movie presentation in a small room. Great sound, even better construction
I finally passed them on to one of my son's who is following in his fathers footsteps. Even to this day, the speakers would easily compare in sound quality to almost all hometheater speakers I have heard up to this point.

I have to agree These speaker were virtually indestructable and came with a "Lifetime Warranty" and a true 20Hz - 25,000 Khz most people never got to experience digital sound through these such as CD's ect.. in fact the only speakers that I have heard that comes close is the Yamaha NS Studio Monitors

although it takes plenty of power to punch the Mach's I wouldn't recommend them to newer intagrated amps under 120 watts RMS minimum because they will soak up bass like a sponge.

Consumer Reports Rated these speakers at # 2 in 1980 of all the speakers they have tested worldwide only beaten by a $1200 Cerwin Vega Tower

http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/f0/db/85_12_sb.JPG

Sir Terrence the Terrible
11-30-2004, 03:39 PM
I have some questions for you my good man. Do you know what kind of crossover slope this speaker has?(6db per ocatave, 12,24??)

I know it is possible to replace the woofers(I bought the last 4 they had in stock in the Radio shack warehouse), is it possible to replace the mids and tweeters? Besides the scew terminal versus the spring clips, and the amount of screws on the L-pad, what other differences are there between the 4024's and the 4029's. Once you replace the woofers on the 4029's with a 4024 woofer, what sonic differences are there? Is there any way to remove the dispersion "vanes" on the midrange horn? So many questions here...

cpq1c1mo
12-01-2004, 05:31 AM
I have some questions for you my good man. Do you know what kind of crossover slope this speaker has?(6db per ocatave, 12,24??)

I know it is possible to replace the woofers(I bought the last 4 they had in stock in the Radio shack warehouse), is it possible to replace the mids and tweeters? Besides the scew terminal versus the spring clips, and the amount of screws on the L-pad, what other differences are there between the 4024's and the 4029's. Once you replace the woofers on the 4029's with a 4024 woofer, what sonic differences are there? Is there any way to remove the dispersion "vanes" on the midrange horn? So many questions here...


I no longer have the the original graph specs although This can be a very lengthy complex answer given to the Machs speaker design but I will try to break this down simple
First by using a 15" acoustic suspension woofer and backed by 2 horns one being an HC tweeter and the other multicellular midrange, the first thing comes to mind is "timing" the second would be "overlap" with such an awkward compilation of speakers, however the high, band, and, low pass are as follows:
"20-800 Hz (24db) , 800-8000 Hz , 8000-25,000 Hz" Resonance 65 Hz
"what sonic differences are there?"
There are very complex capacitor storage for blockage and gates that the 4029's do not have so, no, replacing the horns will not do the trick that is also why ferrofluid was added to this model, the 4029's could not hold range of frequencies so there was distortion.... but you had a cool looking Liquid Cooled now stamped on the L-Pad plate...

The original expensive 4024 crossovers where no longer needed because the replacement to the foam base surround on the woofer caused the "timing" issue,
the problem with larger woofers is they tend to be
"slower" than smaller woofers, or less punchy and defined and this surround did just that,
hope the 4 you bought are not these., more than likely they are if they were last also 4 ohm.
The 4 ohm woofer was secretly added to try to give extra punch once the receiver wars ended and the lower end receivers came out which could not drive the 8 ohm woofers effectively the 4029's are nothing more than PA speakers.

In fact Tandy denied they ever had the 4024's once the cheaper made 4029's were released even on their site today http://support.radioshack.com/productinfo/ProductResults.asp?Name=Home_Speaker_Systems&ID=003008002

they deny the Mach One name under the 4024 listing, this means they didn't have to give you the more expensive 4024 replacement parts that they guaranteed for life any longer even if they were the ones you owned....because the 4029's warranty was only 5 years.

JBL claims to be the fist to just now have mastered the horn technology just recenty with thier $12,000 speakers that will only drop down to just below 30 Hz ...... did they forget about Fosters Machs Ones? hmmm..

Sir Terrence the Terrible
12-01-2004, 11:28 AM
The woofers I have are definately the 8ohm models, it says so on the bottom of the drivers metal back plate. So you are telling me if my original 4024 blow something, they will not honor the lifetime warranty? It figures!

One set of Mach Ones I own are the lousy 4029. When the woofer's surround gave out, rather than replacing them, I had the speaker completely redone from the inside. New VERY expensive crossover system with time alignment built in, new 15" TAD coaxial driver with a 5" midbass driver behind the dust cap(which they call a dispersion screen), new mid and high frequency drivers also by TAD.

When my buddy who happens to work for Klipsch finished the remodeling job on the speakers, they sounded way better than the originals(4024), and better than any horn loaded hybrid I have ever heard. The sounded so good, that I had my friend match my center and surrounds with the same drivers(the are also both horn loaded hybrids), and crossover unit so I could use them for a 5.1 monitoring system in my old studio.

I would be interested in purchasing another set of the 4024 If I could get my hands on a pair.

I guess JBL has never heard of the HPS-4000XL system by John Allen. He was the first person to develope a horn loaded full range speakers with a horn loaded bass bin capable of 135db at 25hz. They are big suckers though.

cpq1c1mo
12-02-2004, 01:37 AM
The woofers I have are definately the 8ohm models, it says so on the bottom of the drivers metal back plate. So you are telling me if my original 4024 blow something, they will not honor the lifetime warranty? It figures!

One set of Mach Ones I own are the lousy 4029. When the woofer's surround gave out, rather than replacing them, I had the speaker completely redone from the inside. New VERY expensive crossover system with time alignment built in, new 15" TAD coaxial driver with a 5" midbass driver behind the dust cap(which they call a dispersion screen), new mid and high frequency drivers also by TAD.

When my buddy who happens to work for Klipsch finished the remodeling job on the speakers, they sounded way better than the originals(4024), and better than any horn loaded hybrid I have ever heard. The sounded so good, that I had my friend match my center and surrounds with the same drivers(the are also both horn loaded hybrids), and crossover unit so I could use them for a 5.1 monitoring system in my old studio.

I would be interested in purchasing another set of the 4024 If I could get my hands on a pair.

I guess JBL has never heard of the HPS-4000XL system by John Allen. He was the first person to develope a horn loaded full range speakers with a horn loaded bass bin capable of 135db at 25hz. They are big suckers though.


I would sure love to hear those Machs you have redone!!
As I'm sure we all know Realistic's days of quailty are long gone but there is one more speaker that I would rate very high from them that was around with the Machs they cost only $20.00 more apeice at the time, and that is the T-200's , they were a Tower 3-way that could produce a Flat Uncolored Frequency Responce they had Gradual-slope crossovers that insured smooth transistions in bass mid and highs, staggered tweeters for time alignment so there were no sudden phase shifts or discontinities in the measured phase responce . and I tell ya the sound is just unbelievable cleaner than 2 bottles of 409

These had duel 10" active woofers that moved only half the distance of a single one +

I was lucky enough to pick up a near mint set off ebay for $158.00, although I replaced the surrounds on the woofers, there was not a scratch on these babys. they are probably one of the prettiest set of speakers I have ever seen they have the edgeless tweeter and a 6.5 mid they are cat# 40-2029 and the Shack has no record of these anywhere. The Machs were their Corvette and these were their Rolls Royce.

These T-200's can Handle so much power that it is said you can melt the L-pads before they will clip
My 4024 Machs I also bought on Ebay some time back Mint in the Box from 1979 and stored unplayed the entire time but for a price ---- $650.00 and was worth every penny there were no miles on them, and I think the age on the cones make them sound that much better , kinda like wine

Sir Terrence the Terrible
12-02-2004, 10:19 AM
My 4024 Machs I also bought on Ebay some time back Mint in the Box from 1979 and stored unplayed the entire time but for a price ---- $650.00 and was worth every penny there were no miles on them, and I think the age on the cones make them sound that much better , kinda like wine

I would give my left eyeball to get my hands on another pair of 4024's. What did you do to get them off of EBAY? I think this will be my first project of the new year, to score another pair to use as studio monitors. Can you give me some tips here? I would GLADLY pay top buck for a good set.

BRANDONH
12-02-2004, 12:35 PM
I have to agree These speaker were virtually indestructable and came with a "Lifetime Warranty" and a true 20Hz - 25,000 Khz most people never got to experience digital sound through these such as CD's ect.. in fact the only speakers that I have heard that comes close is the Yamaha NS Studio Monitors

although it takes plenty of power to punch the Mach's I wouldn't recommend them to newer intagrated amps under 120 watts RMS minimum because they will soak up bass like a sponge.

Consumer Reports Rated these speakers at # 2 in 1980 of all the speakers they have tested worldwide only beaten by a $1200 Cerwin Vega Tower

http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/f0/db/85_12_sb.JPG

Thanks for the pic!
I remember these well.
I remember I would ride my bike up to the Shack and drool over them, but I was just a kid and I could not afford them.
Then a salesman would walk up and ask CAN I HELP YOU KID?
And that would that and I would leave.
Remember the reel to reels they used to have?
I dont know what happend to radio shack but they used to make top notch equipment back in the day. Now I dont think they even sell stereos anymore.
Shame

cpq1c1mo
12-03-2004, 01:55 AM
I would give my left eyeball to get my hands on another pair of 4024's. What did you do to get them off of EBAY? I think this will be my first project of the new year, to score another pair to use as studio monitors. Can you give me some tips here? I would GLADLY pay top buck for a good set.

well I just typed in ebays search "realistic speakers" or "realistic mach" day after day till I found a mint set I was lucky because I found them with the "Buy It Now" option so I didmt have to bid -really simple shipping is steep on these = but hey, they are heavy

Tips: never place a bid until close to the end of the auction , and always check feedback ratings

These speakers sold new for $239.00 a peice back in the late 70' which was a hefty price for the time if these speakers were reproduced exactly as original today and sold with that exact quailty, you would be looking well over $1.500 a peice.

A friend of mine worked for the Shack back in those days and he told me he had never seen a Mach One speaker ever brought back to the store for any type of driver damage burnouts ect.. and there were people useing the Pioneer sx1980 to drive these at 270 wpc there were some strong amps of pure power back then, not like this Elite overrated intergrated junk of today.

I run an downfiring sub between my 2 Machs for the front, a custom 4024 cabnet professionally shortened just under the L-pad ( minus the woofer )and recrossed for my center just above the downfireing sub and two T-200's in the rear split between a second downfireing sub. I have a vent installed under the floor leading to the 2 subs simalar to the Isobarik fashion which they are out of phase so the cones are always pushing in the same direction. This is my theater room set up for my ceiling DLP Projection. very nice live presense sound

cpq1c1mo
12-03-2004, 01:59 AM
Thanks for the pic!
I remember these well.
I remember I would ride my bike up to the Shack and drool over them, but I was just a kid and I could not afford them.
Then a salesman would walk up and ask CAN I HELP YOU KID?
And that would that and I would leave.
Remember the reel to reels they used to have?
I dont know what happend to radio shack but they used to make top notch equipment back in the day. Now I dont think they even sell stereos anymore.
Shame

I feel ya man! I did the same thing ........

Sir Terrence the Terrible
12-08-2004, 03:12 PM
http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/f0/db/85_12_sb.JPG[/QUOTE]

These beauties you see in this photo will be sitting in my living room in about 5 days. Just picked up these very speakers in the photo for about $280 on ebay. At this price they are well worth it. Can't wait to hear them. If they sound half as good as my son's original Mach 1's(4024), I am in for a real treat!!

jamison
12-09-2004, 07:33 AM
God, seeing those brings back some fond memories, my first good set of speakers were the origional run of Mach1. I remember as a kid i saw them in the window at radio shack. they looked so ominous and threatening. i was with my mom and she said there is no way im going to let you spend that kinda money on speakers. well ... i saved my money up saved and saved. I didnt buy one pair either. i had bought two pairs. I was the king of the block running an old crown amp on them. there is another difference i have noticed on the origional run they used better wiring terminals,. the 81-3 version had cheapo push type connectors. my biggest regret is not holding on to these. I know they are not magnetically shielded but can you imagine listening to 5 of these on DVDA or SACD in multichannel?? you wouldnt need the .1 thats for sure. When they released the Mach 2 series I bought a pair of those too they sounded ok but they were not built as stout and didnt stand the test of time. I remember after a while i sunk my pair of mach 2s in the trunk of my grand marquis they gave some booming bass untill the ravages of winter destroyed the surrounds.

cpq1c1mo
12-10-2004, 02:02 AM
yes these are the 4024's as can be seen by the L-pad plate .

cpq1c1mo
12-10-2004, 02:25 AM
set . there is another difference i have noticed on the origional run they used better wiring terminals,. .


yea I mentioned that earlier when I said the "screw terminals were changed to spring clip"


As for the Mach 2's they were ok on lowerend amps but these were very cheapy built speakers that port was not there for extended bass , it was there to protect the cone on that generic 15" inch woofer, and that 4 ohm mid really sounded terrible what really errked me was that grill cloth that was not glued - but melted to the plastic frame . we used to put a Mach One on the Left channel and a Mach Two on the Right and really laugh at how much worse the Mach Two sounded .

These speaker were a Joke to even carry the Mach name... but they sure were pretty.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
12-10-2004, 11:14 AM
yes these are the 4024's as can be seen by the L-pad plate .

As viewed from the photo's on Ebay, these speakers are beautiful and very well kept up. And yes the are the original 4024's because they do lack the "liquid cooled" wording on the L-pad, have the ten screws holding the L-pad on, and has binding posts as opposed to spring clips.

More questions CPQ, did the crossover in the 4024 do any kind of time alignment, because it looks like the midrange driver extends all the way to the back of the speaker, and the tweeter doesn't and neither does the woofer.

It appears to me the drivers in the 4024, and the ones on the 4029 are the same. Why did they need ferrofluid cooling anyway? Was the distortion you mentioned in the 4029 eliminated by the ferrofluid?

Thanks so much for the tip on the speakers, I really appreciate it!

cpq1c1mo
12-10-2004, 04:32 PM
As viewed from the photo's on Ebay, these speakers are beautiful and very well kept up. And yes the are the original 4024's because they do lack the "liquid cooled" wording on the L-pad, have the ten screws holding the L-pad on, and has binding posts as opposed to spring clips.

More questions CPQ, did the crossover in the 4024 do any kind of time alignment, because it looks like the midrange driver extends all the way to the back of the speaker, and the tweeter doesn't and neither does the woofer.

It appears to me the drivers in the 4024, and the ones on the 4029 are the same. Why did they need ferrofluid cooling anyway? Was the distortion you mentioned in the 4029 eliminated by the ferrofluid?

Thanks so much for the tip on the speakers, I really appreciate it!

The woofers are completly sealed off from the horn and tweeter. Yes there were precise time alignment as I mentioned earlier --" There are very complex capacitor storage for blockage and gates that the 4029's do not have - that is also why ferrofluid was added to this model, the 4029's could not hold range of frequencies so there was distortion...

The ferrofluid did not stop the distortion in the 4029's caused by underlap of frequenices and timeing issues , it was used to keep the drivers from overheating resulting in burnout or persay ,-simply to protect the cheaper drivers from the much cheaper used crossover network in the 4029's

The drivers in the 4024's and 4029's are NOT the same.again also remember the 4029's has less capacitor storage.

The Machs you just bought (4024) will have the very expensive and famous woofers with the 4-layer voice coil that is wound on a brass form , this is the one that can take the power and produce a true 20 Hz that you can feel, it is a very soild woofer that can blow out a match at 6 feet that we have done with a Pioneer SX-1980

What amp are you planning on driving these with?

hilo4321
02-26-2007, 10:39 PM
i know this is a very old and very dead thread, but if anyone of the people who know a decent amount about these speakers is around thatd be great.

exactly how bad are the later versions?

are they worth buying for 150 bucks?

MikeyBC
02-27-2007, 05:47 AM
Hey Sir Terrence...was reading through this old thread and I just found these for 150 bucks in the Detroit area posted on feb 24 07, they might still be available.......The originals and they look nice http://detroit.craigslist.org/ele/283828174.html

xr680r
10-21-2007, 03:38 PM
Is there anyone out there that can give me the spec's on the Mach I 's ? I have a set of the mid-range horns and would like to know the frequency range and the wattage they can handle. I would love to know the crossover that was used with these. :23:

tiny
11-19-2007, 02:21 PM
I was given a pair of 4029's 1 has no woofer and the other is in need of foaming. I am thinking of replacing the both woofers and looking for suggestions. Alternately I am thinking of pulling the horns altogether and making a center channel out of them, any thoughts on that? (center channel would be powered by 100 WPC Adcom amp.

jive_o
12-08-2007, 04:35 PM
I have a pair of the 4024 Mach Ones. I am the original owner and have not used them very much at all. I still have the original boxes they came in. I am interested in selling them on ebay and was wondering what I should expect to sell them for. I also have the STA 2000D receiver and LAB400 Turntable I purchased at the same time. My daughters decided they don't want them and I'm ready to downsize. All the equipment has been babied and well taken care of over the years. Any help on pricing of the speakers and the other equipment would be appreciated. I realize this is an ancient thread so I may never hear from anybody. Also someone local is interested in the equipment so I may be able to sell everything to him.

Thanks in advance.

sabbathjoy2
08-06-2008, 03:58 AM
Got a pair of Mach One 4024 8 ohm woofers for sale ... if interested I'll be more than happy to send pics, and will accept ANY fairly decent offer. I'm in Baltimore, Maryland.

mlunsford
08-07-2008, 09:01 AM
I am interested in the pair of 4024s you have for sale. I am also new to the
forum, so I'm not sure how to inquire about photos and information about the
speakers. I would like to know about their history. Thanks, mlunsford

sabbathjoy2
08-07-2008, 10:50 AM
I've attached photos, and if you want a history of this model speaker go to the top of the page .... if you're asking where my woofers came from, ... I found them in trashed 4024 cabinets and they're in great condition mechanically and cosmetically. These are 15" 4024 woofers but I've got speakers already with 12's so I'm ok. Later

1jazzman
09-03-2008, 02:42 PM
Hello guys,
This is 1jazzman and i'm on the make for some of the original Mach One grille cloth also. I'm out here in Sactown, ca., have just got my "Andre the Giant" hands on another pair of these heartstopping speakers. Back in the 90's, i had 2 pairs of them, one pair i sold and the better pair i gave to an older brother as a wedding gift, he STILL has them and would rather fight than switch, fellas, i hooked 'em! He's NEVER had a pair of speakers like those! Ever since, i've had the hots for them again, i found a pair on CL, they wanted a whopping $75 bucks for them, i was told they were mint and they weren't but, he got the price down to $60, i picked them up from him and brought them back to Sac, I spent labor day sanding them down and i took out a can of Minwax Red Mahogany stain and drowned them with it, which they gladly soaked up and they're beautiful! I'm glad to see that i'm not the only one who loves these speakers, the bass will stop your bloodflow and they're very easy to drive also. I have a pair of JBL Decade 36's in my living room that will be replaced by these! I love those too but, not like these and these won't be going ANYWHERE for awhile. Advice to anyone looking for these speakers, GET 'EM IF YOU CAN!" Happy hunting!

Cu-Melter
03-14-2010, 10:13 AM
I'm almost certain that the slopes used 2nd order...IE- 12dB roll offs.
X-over points are 1200 Hz and 4500 Hz

harley .guy07
03-14-2010, 12:28 PM
Just to let the mach one fans know parts Express is know selling replacement woofers for the mach one speakers. they look the same and have the same specs as the originals. I do not remember the price of them but I don't think they were too high.

Cu-Melter
03-15-2010, 07:36 AM
4 Ohm model... (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-182)
8 Ohm model... (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-184)

$74.88 EA

Boatman1
03-24-2010, 08:41 PM
I picked up a pair of Mach Ones last year at a habitat for humanity store for 10 bucks,
they said no one would bye them cause they where to heavy, had to recenter the mid on
the horn and they work mint, I run them on a old Realistic STA 2000 reciever, niebers hate me now.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
11-20-2010, 11:54 AM
I was getting ready to restore 3 of the 6 Mach Ones I have in storage, and found many errors that folks have posted on the Mach Ones.

Doing some research I found the 4024,4024a and 4029 all have 8ohm woofer. There were never 4ohm woofers on the Mach One. The 4024 uses a rubber surround, the 4024A a foam covered by some preservation coating, and the 4029 just plain foam which is why it rots, and the 4024a and 4024 don't.

I also found there is absolutely no difference in the drivers of the 4024A and 4029, except the 4029 uses ferro fluid in the tweeter and midrange so it can put out more power.

The 4024A measures better than the 4029, and the 4024 measures better that 4024A. I took my speakers to my friends workshop, and measured all six of the models I own in his gigantic backroom using the MLSSA measuring system. The 4024 had a +-4.5db from 50-20k, the 4024A was -+6db from 50-20k, and the 4029 was-+ 7.5db from 50-20k.

The Mach One is not a true three way system, it is a two and a half way. The woofer response extends to 1.2k, crosses over to the midrange which actually has output that extends to 20k. The tweeter catches up to the midrange driver at 4khz and also extends its output to about 25k. The larger horn on the midrange is designed to extend the driver's response down to 1.2k. The addition of the tweeter seems to help the dispersion at the highest frequencies. The caps need changing, as I am getting a some bass below the 1.2k crossover cutoff coming out of the midrange driver. I ordered Dayton caps to replace the stock ones.

The cabinet is really too small for the 15" driver, which is why the woofer only responds down to 50hz, and not 20hz as advertised. One of the first things I am going to do is drill a large hole between the sealed woofer and midrange cabinets, add more stuffing, and totally seal the midrange space from any air leaks. According to the modeling I am doing that should extend is response down to below 30hz with 9db more output. This should make the speaker perform as advertised(flat to 20hz), and lower the Q of the system overall.

I measured the speakers before pulling out the drivers and crossover. I then measured the individual drivers frequency response. I have to say, I am very impressed with the performance of these almost thirty year old speakers. I was shocked with the measurements of the 4024. This model measures better than some very expensive speakers they make today. I am going to totally restore the 4024 and 4024A. The 4029 I am going to convert to a subwoofers. They just do not sound as good as the 4024 and 4024A in the mids and highs.

This is going to be a fun project to do, and once I am finished I am going to hand the speakers over to my son. I need to get some of the equipment in storage put to use instead of just letting them rot in storage.

All of the drivers in the speakers are in great shape, as there is no sign of deterioration of the foam in front of the tweeter and midrange units. The bass drivers are also in great shape. I am going to coat them with a special glue to rebind the fibers which will preserve the driver, extend its response, and remove the nasty peak at 600hz.

For those who have heard these speakers, and commented that they hated their sound were probably listening to the 4029. These speakers have a response that is all over the map, which makes them peaky at 600hz, 6k, and 9k. The 4024 and 4024A have a single notch like peak at 600hz, but measure incredibly well below and above that single peak. The 4024 had a 4.5db peak at 600hz, the 4024A was 6db. The coating and opening up the mid and bass cabinets should take care of that.

I am going to keep posting my progress on this project.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
11-20-2010, 11:56 AM
I'm almost certain that the slopes used 2nd order...IE- 12dB roll offs.
X-over points are 1200 Hz and 4500 Hz

This information is correct. However all of the drivers are in phase, so I believe some of the drivers are wired out of phase with one another to counter the phase twist of the 2nd order crossover.

misterfastlygood
10-30-2011, 08:35 AM
[QUOTE=cpq1c1mo;61641]I have to agree These speaker were virtually indestructable and came with a "Lifetime Warranty" and a true 20Hz - 25,000 Khz most people never got to experience digital sound through these such as CD's ect.. in fact the only speakers that I have heard that comes close is the Yamaha NS Studio Monitors

although it takes plenty of power to punch the Mach's I wouldn't recommend them to newer intagrated amps under 120 watts RMS minimum because they will soak up bass like a sponge.

Consumer Reports Rated these speakers at # 2 in 1980 of all the speakers they have tested worldwide only beaten by a $1200 Cerwin Vega Tower

The Yamaha NS-10 passive studio monitors sound horrible, comparing most similar product lines of many years of studio monitors is stupid. The NS-10 are so crappy, if you mix and master your studio work on them and make it sound good. Then the finished product can only sound better on other systems.
NS-10's are only for the professional studio engineers to master with!

browny
03-29-2012, 11:26 PM
I purchased a pair of these Mach 1's in the mid seventies. I also purchased The STA 2000 receiver rated at 80 watts ;per channel. This combination sounded really impressive compaired to other set ups I have tried for many years. I understand that Pioneer made these receivers for Radio Shack. They really had a good clean sound and really good power. Newer stereo receivers did not sound as good even if they had more rated power..

roadtrip
03-23-2013, 09:37 PM
I was getting ready to restore 3 of the 6 Mach Ones I have in storage, and found many errors that folks have posted on the Mach Ones.

Doing some research I found the 4024,4024a and 4029 all have 8ohm woofer. There were never 4ohm woofers on the Mach One. The 4024 uses a rubber surround, the 4024A a foam covered by some preservation coating, and the 4029 just plain foam which is why it rots, and the 4024a and 4024 don't.

I also found there is absolutely no difference in the drivers of the 4024A and 4029, except the 4029 uses ferro fluid in the tweeter and midrange so it can put out more power.

The 4024A measures better than the 4029, and the 4024 measures better that 4024A. I took my speakers to my friends workshop, and measured all six of the models I own in his gigantic backroom using the MLSSA measuring system. The 4024 had a +-4.5db from 50-20k, the 4024A was -+6db from 50-20k, and the 4029 was-+ 7.5db from 50-20k.

The Mach One is not a true three way system, it is a two and a half way. The woofer response extends to 1.2k, crosses over to the midrange which actually has output that extends to 20k. The tweeter catches up to the midrange driver at 4khz and also extends its output to about 25k. The larger horn on the midrange is designed to extend the driver's response down to 1.2k. The addition of the tweeter seems to help the dispersion at the highest frequencies. The caps need changing, as I am getting a some bass below the 1.2k crossover cutoff coming out of the midrange driver. I ordered Dayton caps to replace the stock ones.

The cabinet is really too small for the 15" driver, which is why the woofer only responds down to 50hz, and not 20hz as advertised. One of the first things I am going to do is drill a large hole between the sealed woofer and midrange cabinets, add more stuffing, and totally seal the midrange space from any air leaks. According to the modeling I am doing that should extend is response down to below 30hz with 9db more output. This should make the speaker perform as advertised(flat to 20hz), and lower the Q of the system overall.

I measured the speakers before pulling out the drivers and crossover. I then measured the individual drivers frequency response. I have to say, I am very impressed with the performance of these almost thirty year old speakers. I was shocked with the measurements of the 4024. This model measures better than some very expensive speakers they make today. I am going to totally restore the 4024 and 4024A. The 4029 I am going to convert to a subwoofers. They just do not sound as good as the 4024 and 4024A in the mids and highs.

This is going to be a fun project to do, and once I am finished I am going to hand the speakers over to my son. I need to get some of the equipment in storage put to use instead of just letting them rot in storage.

All of the drivers in the speakers are in great shape, as there is no sign of deterioration of the foam in front of the tweeter and midrange units. The bass drivers are also in great shape. I am going to coat them with a special glue to rebind the fibers which will preserve the driver, extend its response, and remove the nasty peak at 600hz.

For those who have heard these speakers, and commented that they hated their sound were probably listening to the 4029. These speakers have a response that is all over the map, which makes them peaky at 600hz, 6k, and 9k. The 4024 and 4024A have a single notch like peak at 600hz, but measure incredibly well below and above that single peak. The 4024 had a 4.5db peak at 600hz, the 4024A was 6db. The coating and opening up the mid and bass cabinets should take care of that.

I am going to keep posting my progress on this project.

Hi Mr. 4024, I'm new here really interested in what you say. I recently mach one, I've seen this blog before funds. I see that they are not below 30 hz sure. I compare it to PA I malgrer 28Hz and they make their speaker 12 '. Tell me where you are? Does it have given the search result after you make a trout between 2 parts? Can you tell me what I need exatement buy as Dayton caps? I know that but I'm not smart to do otherwise I will do. Is this gonna get me down to 30 hz? The best would be from 25 to 28 hz!

Sir Terrence the Terrible
04-03-2013, 07:48 PM
Hi Mr. 4024, I'm new here really interested in what you say. I recently mach one, I've seen this blog before funds. I see that they are not below 30 hz sure. I compare it to PA I malgrer 28Hz and they make their speaker 12 '. Tell me where you are? Does it have given the search result after you make a trout between 2 parts? Can you tell me what I need exatement buy as Dayton caps? I know that but I'm not smart to do otherwise I will do. Is this gonna get me down to 30 hz? The best would be from 25 to 28 hz!

The answer to your question is no. The caps are for the crossover, as the caps that are already in them are stock, deteriorated, and out of spec. I ended getting Aricaps

Auricap High Resolution Capacitors (http://www.audience-av.com/capacitors/a_description.html)

because they sounded WAY better than the Daytons.

The only way to extend the response down to 20hz is to open up the midrange cabinet, carefully remove the midrange horn, and drill three 3" holes(I just drilled one huge hole), reinstall the midrange horn, and stuff around the midrange with polyfill or wool until full. Then you have to fully seal a gasket(I used rubber) and re screw in the back panel so that it is airtight. Any leakage, and it will cause the woofer to flap in the wind. I would also highly recommend you replace the 15" driver with a newer one. I found the old drivers were deteriorating as the fibres tightly woven together start to dry out and separate over time.

Other tweaks that improve the sound include removing the midrange and tweeter drivers, and replace the foam with felt if it is deteriorated(I did this and it works wonders).

I also took this project one step further by getting a friend of mine to rebuild the crossover into a true three way crossover with crossover points at 900hz, and 8000hz. Now that 15" woofer does not beam as much at the crossover point.

This is a nice speaker rebuild project with a before and after experience that is quite staggering. The remodeled Mach Ones sound completely different than the old ones. I have one hometheater that uses three completely redone Mach ones for the front channels, and man is the sound astonishing. Not as good as my high end systems, but WAY better than most mass market speakers. If you really like these speakers, the time and money spent rebuilding them is certain worth it.

roadtrip
04-15-2013, 04:53 PM
thank you for your answer. I appreciate it. I noticed that the horn as Sev holes at the mid. Certainly must seal it because it'll affect the sound. Is that why I have you noticed that? thank

roadtrip
04-27-2013, 08:41 PM
[QUOTE=roadtrip;393506]hello everyone.
I love are the realistic mach one. It nice speaker. by cons has been a difference of sd amp 120RM (realistic ) it takes to enjoy. with a 75rms the sound is good. by cons with more power, they have the power they need!
The other speaker is sound dynsmics serie s (120s-12s 1200smt)
Does someone have the doncumentation on spesc 1200 smt sound dynamics of the 12s-120s model ... is there some who know or trouverles parts for speakers (cone)! if not available on that model trust me another company? sound synamic s series or smt is extra ordinary definition sound. it may as well play metal blues, country, dance clubbin `as classic (Mozart).

jkillen
05-03-2013, 09:32 AM
Mach One rings a bit of a bell in my head. I'm new to this site, and you can call me Killen. Have you ever heard of JBL 100's? If so, how would you compare the Mach One's to the JBL 100's. An old friend of mine has the JBL's and a sansui 90/90. He swears by that setup, and I do agree with him. With his speakers and his receiver, they together put out a beautiful sound. I am really impressed with some of the classic speakers and receivers.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
05-03-2013, 07:14 PM
Mach One rings a bit of a bell in my head. I'm new to this site, and you can call me Killen. Have you ever heard of JBL 100's? If so, how would you compare the Mach One's to the JBL 100's. An old friend of mine has the JBL's and a sansui 90/90. He swears by that setup, and I do agree with him. With his speakers and his receiver, they together put out a beautiful sound. I am really impressed with some of the classic speakers and receivers.

It really depends on what condition you find both speakers in. They sound quite different, and that is for sure. I have heard both speakers completely reconditioned, and I preferred the sound of the Mach Ones over the JBL. I thought imaging was a bit better, power and impact was a bit better, and overall balance was better with the Mach Ones.

It really depends on the sound you are looking for. If you like a forward midrange and recessed highs, the L100 is your speaker. The Mach one is a bit more powerful in the midbass, a bit cleaner in the midrange, and just a touch rolled off in the highest highs. The Mach Ones can be equalized for a flat response down to 25hz, the L-100 cannot without overloading the driver and unloading the port below its resonant point.

If you do the upgrades and driver upgrades I mention in my post, the L-100 would not be able to compete with the Mach One.

That70sGuy
05-30-2013, 11:55 AM
Sir Terrance
I have been following this thread about the Machs this is my set up:

I have them hanging in the front of my garage powered by an old Pioneer 380 watt RX 531 and in the back i have a pair of Pioneer J825Q powered by another 380 watt Pioneer RX 1220. Researching this site i read where the Machs are best driven by an old Pioneer SX 1980. But i like the digital stations and the fact that they are both controlled by the same remote.
The only problem is that i cant crank it up over half way without it distorting they don't seam to be balanced and i really don't feel the base as being described. Is it my receiver? do i need more watts?. Or maybe i need to get them checked out like you did. Help

roadtrip
05-31-2013, 12:19 AM
Sir Terrance
I have been following this thread about the Machs this is my set up:

I have them hanging in the front of my garage powered by an old Pioneer 380 watt RX 531 and in the back i have a pair of Pioneer J825Q powered by another 380 watt Pioneer RX 1220. Researching this site i read where the Machs are best driven by an old Pioneer SX 1980. But i like the digital stations and the fact that they are both controlled by the same remote.
The only problem is that i cant crank it up over half way without it distorting they don't seam to be balanced and i really don't feel the base as being described. Is it my receiver? do i need more watts?. Or maybe i need to get them checked out like you did. Help

hi, I have the 40-4024 40-4029 realistic sta 2100 and 2000d.
the 40-4024 requires more power simply because the density of the laminae woofer. I'm finally not agree to modify any be the case. It just takes a good vintage amp! recend forget amp except a $ 3000 and more. For 40-4029 are easier to play. I have 12s, 120s, api sd SMT 1200 MKII speakers. they like property (28Hz, 28Hz-20kHz 3 dB. 1.1 coil and 2100Hz, 120 3.5 db 28 Hz -18 kHz, 101 dB for the 12s) (26Hz, 26Hz-20kHz 3 dB. 1.1 coil and 2050hz, 120 3.5 db 28 Hz -18 kHz, 101.5 db) and similar SMT 1200. the sd are easier to play than mach one especially 40-4024. For the api 12s, 120s did with all the amp. With the recent amp not expect has mirache because this is the **** for the stereo.
As I tell the receiver sta 2000 or 2000d is for mach one! but the station in 2100 or sta2100d Because of the property. sta-2100-2500Hz frequency balance response 15 2 db at 10 watts. beautifull bass is full. the sta 2000d or 2000 the frequency balance is 15-20 hz 00 2 dB at 5 watts. 2080 and the station is 15-25000HZ hz 1 db! 2080 is year 1980, but is still well :) and beautiful!

I suggest you invest on vinstage amp, pioneer sansui marantz realistic ... and do not break your mach one. the fist reason mach one value and will keep going as if it worth alot moin on the walk to. normal to want to dodge half-gm! the test result still depends on the amp use! For me, I have decided not to do because of the good mix amp.

Guncho
12-08-2013, 10:17 AM
Found this thread via google and joined this message board looking for help.

I have a pair of the 4029's passed down from the in laws and they sounded great for the last few years but recently one of them has started having a distorted sound in the mid range. I don't think it's the 15" woofers that are distorting. Any suggestions? I'd love to fix these if it didn't cost too much. Any ballpark idea how much it would cost to have it professionally repaired?

roadtrip
12-14-2013, 02:27 PM
Hello! For the price again it all depends! I would find one that do beautiful jobs. Your mid finger to break or am again! Before that, I suggest you check the contour of the woofer. Sometimes after 35 years of schoolyard foarm cone simply! just the reattached. it creates a breakdown because the cone vibrates against the membrane.

Guncho
12-14-2013, 11:12 PM
So I just played around with the speaker a bit and the problem is that some of the foam ring around the paper speaker is missing. If I apply light pressure with my finger to the edge of the speaker the bass sounds great. Guess I will attempt to repair.

Before I order, any idea why the big price difference?

15" Mach I Speaker Repair Kit For Replacing Foam Surrounds - Realistic Mach I, Mach 1, Mach One (http://www.speakerworks.com/15_Mach_I_Speaker_Repair_Kit_p/swk15mach.htm?CartID=1)

Radio Shack Speaker Foam Edge Repair Kit, Mach One, Mach Two, FSK-15M (http://www.simplyspeakers.com/radio-shack-speaker-foam-edge-repair-kit-mach-fsk-15m.html)

roadtrip
12-15-2013, 06:18 PM
hi! jte council looks at video on the net! some removed the cap from the center to be sure to be well enligne. are more or moin 1 mm of play! some are able to do without removing the cap! must be cleaned (although clean) the outline and gently come! cole the party going in dessou the cone first. waiting 5 minutes or lendement and glue the remaining contour. does not wait before pasted put a weight on the speaker but really in the center! such a cup and you should be okay. go there this place! but you need it to feel good focus! go gently and appote you around! For cons, I suggest you a professional. be honest with you even your ability! the precission is pert because there faudras pay again to do so if it is bad! and the unit price is the same but the shipping that'll change! look on ebay!