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Worf101
11-28-2004, 08:40 AM
It's amazing how they can take steps BACKWARDS and call them leaps FORWARD. My case is point is their ads for they new way Radio. It's main selling points are as follows....

1. New slim remote the size of a matchbook - Translation easy to wear out and way easy to lose.

2. No buttons to clutter up the look of the radio - So when you lose or damage the remote you now have to buy a new one from Bose or you have one expensive assed doorstop.

3. Slot loaded CD player. - Er yeah, and when the CD hangs up in there and you can't get it out you'll wish you had a tray instead...

The ignorance of people amazes me.

Da Worfster :(

JSE
11-28-2004, 04:42 PM
I saw that exact commercial with the remote that's about the size of credit card and thought the exact same thing. What happens when you lose the remote? I am sure since we are talking about BOSE the remote is most likely a space-aged design with a nuclear power cell which cost only $99.99, sold seperately. What could be more freakin frustrating than looking at the wonderful Bose Wave system just sitting there and not a damn thing you can do to use it or even get your CD out. :confused:

JSE

eisforelectronic
11-29-2004, 03:59 AM
Bose is amazing.......for !@#$%

N. Abstentia
11-29-2004, 05:08 AM
Wow. All of those things are truly wonders of technology. How did they ever think of those things??

Oh yeah...that's the same stuff the car stereo companies were doing 18 years ago. Pardon me for assuming Bose came up with an idea on their own.

Woochifer
11-29-2004, 02:34 PM
Worf -

You couldn't have said it better. When I saw that new "Wave Music" system (notice that they no longer call it the "Wave Radio"?) on TV, those same issues crossed my mind. What if I lose that dinky matchbox sized remote? Pretty easy to lose that thing in a vacuum cleaner I would think!

Also, I thought most people use these things as countertop radios or as alarm clocks. It's not like in the kitchen or on a bedside table, I'm going to want to go fumbling around for the remote when the unit is less than a foot from me. If the thing is inches from me and I want to turn the thing on, give me the on/off button! Oh and one more thing, where's the freaking SNOOZE BUTTON??? For $500, I would expect an alarm clock to have a gigantic snooze button that even the most hungover loser can find in the morning!

We already know that Bose is low on price/performance value, but this seems like a bizarre misstep for them because they've simplified things to the point that this clock radio isn't even very useful or convenient. For all of Bose's parlor tricks and overpriced gimmickry, the one thing that they've always done well is make things convenient and useful for the customers, by keeping things simple.

I mean, I think those Lifestyle systems are abhorently overpriced and underperforming. But, it's an all-in-one system, with no clutter, simple color-coded connections, simple setup, and some useful basic features that are all too often overlooked by receiver manufacturers such as RF remotes that can control the unit from a different room and a built-in music server with an intuitive user interface. For consumers who want plug-and-play simplicity, Bose is a good option, even though that simplicity costs a LOT in terms of both money and diminished utility as a consumer gets more advanced in how a home theater system works.

I also love how Bose puts that stupid "Wave" label on everything. I mean, why call it a "Wave Music "system? Oh yeah, no one will pay $500 for an "alarm clock!" I guess same reasoning stands for their "ACOUSTIC Wave" music system. $1,100 for a boom box? What a ripoff! $1,100 for an Acoustic Wave Music System? Sign me up!

texlle
11-30-2004, 05:44 PM
http://www.happymedium.com/jvc/fs_5000.jpg

My $299 5 1/2 year old JVC shelf system, that I never use, sounds infinitely better than that Wave radio piece of crap.

Worf101
11-30-2004, 05:48 PM
Worf -

You couldn't have said it better. When I saw that new "Wave Music" system (notice that they no longer call it the "Wave Radio"?) on TV, those same issues crossed my mind. What if I lose that dinky matchbox sized remote? Pretty easy to lose that thing in a vacuum cleaner I would think!

Also, I thought most people use these things as countertop radios or as alarm clocks. It's not like in the kitchen or on a bedside table, I'm going to want to go fumbling around for the remote when the unit is less than a foot from me. If the thing is inches from me and I want to turn the thing on, give me the on/off button! Oh and one more thing, where's the freaking SNOOZE BUTTON??? For $500, I would expect an alarm clock to have a gigantic snooze button that even the most hungover loser can find in the morning!

We already know that Bose is low on price/performance value, but this seems like a bizarre misstep for them because they've simplified things to the point that this clock radio isn't even very useful or convenient. For all of Bose's parlor tricks and overpriced gimmickry, the one thing that they've always done well is make things convenient and useful for the customers, by keeping things simple.

I mean, I think those Lifestyle systems are abhorently overpriced and underperforming. But, it's an all-in-one system, with no clutter, simple color-coded connections, simple setup, and some useful basic features that are all too often overlooked by receiver manufacturers such as RF remotes that can control the unit from a different room and a built-in music server with an intuitive user interface. For consumers who want plug-and-play simplicity, Bose is a good option, even though that simplicity costs a LOT in terms of both money and diminished utility as a consumer gets more advanced in how a home theater system works.

I also love how Bose puts that stupid "Wave" label on everything. I mean, why call it a "Wave Music "system? Oh yeah, no one will pay $500 for an "alarm clock!" I guess same reasoning stands for their "ACOUSTIC Wave" music system. $1,100 for a boom box? What a ripoff! $1,100 for an Acoustic Wave Music System? Sign me up!

You're looking at this thing as a thinking, rational human being... that my friend is NOT what you're supposed to be doing. Now, put on your bliders, open your moth and insert the hook so they can land your $500 plus samolians.

Da Worfster :D

Woochifer
11-30-2004, 05:58 PM
You're looking at this thing as a thinking, rational human being... that my friend is NOT what you're supposed to be doing. Now, put on your bliders, open your moth and insert the hook so they can land your $500 plus samolians.

Da Worfster :D

Yesssss Masterrrrrrr!

Bose is my friend, I give anything to my friend Bose. Wooch love Bose. Bose is Wooch's best friend...

http://www.dqshrine.com/dq/dq2/zombie.jpg
Friends Don't Let Friends Buy Bose

CharlieBee
11-30-2004, 08:16 PM
One thing NEVER mentioned in a Bose ad is the price. That is a good indication of and over priced, over hyped product.

Charlie

Woochifer
11-30-2004, 08:52 PM
One thing NEVER mentioned in a Bose ad is the price. That is a good indication of and over priced, over hyped product.

Charlie


If I was going to charge someone $500 for an alarm clock, $1,100 for a boom box, $300 for a pair of "noise cancelling" headphones (that otherwise sell for less than $100), or $5,000 for an underperforming nonupgradable home theater system, I would want to hide the price for as long as possible too!

Resident Loser
12-01-2004, 06:53 AM
...when YOU lose the remote, it's the manufacturers fault? Makes perfect sense to me...I mean if you can spill hot coffee on yerself, sue the company that sold it and WIN!!!...yep, perfect sense...

And IMHO, if you simply plop the unit down on your nightstand, the sound you get is the sound you deserve...the remote is all that "clutters" mine...as the unit itself is on a substantial shelf, positioned as per mfrs. guidelines(or as close as I can come, considering the shelf was there before the radio was)...given the relative "plug'n'play" ease and the approx. 1.5 sq. ft. of real estate it takes up, it seems to provide VG sound...I won't argue about the price but, that ease, WAF, integrating their products with your decor and obviously advertising costs, play a considerable part in what they charge. They are good in creating a certain cache for their products, that is undeniable.

I've seen many other mechanical units(with and without trays, etc.) jam-up, so that part of it seems like just so much b!tchin'n'moanin...

And as far as HT is concerned...he!! it's just another commodity(like digital) foisted on the public by the industry...whoop-de-doo!!! all just a load of cr*p IMO...planned obsolescence punctuated by a series of "breakthroughs" and for what? Bigger and louder explosions...To use your phrase...

"...The ignorance of people amazes me..."

jimHJJ(... and it always will...)

JSE
12-01-2004, 08:07 AM
...when YOU lose the remote, it's the manufacturers fault? Makes perfect sense to me...I mean if you can spill hot coffee on yerself, sue the company that sold it and WIN!!!...yep, perfect sense...jimHJJ(... and it always will...)

That's not the point. The point is, if you lose the remote (which would be the person's fault not the company's) or if god forbid the remote stop working, you are stuck. You cannot do anything with the Wave system. There are NO buttoms at all on the box per the commercial. You just sit there and look at it until your new remote comes in. And, you CD is stuck as well. Of course you could always take the sledgehammer approach to get the CD out. :D So much for user friendly Bose.

JSE

Worf101
12-01-2004, 08:27 AM
Yesssss Masterrrrrrr!

Bose is my friend, I give anything to my friend Bose. Wooch love Bose. Bose is Wooch's best friend...

http://www.dqshrine.com/dq/dq2/zombie.jpg
Friends Don't Let Friends Buy Bose

Nice graphic, watch the drool, don't get any in da wave radio.

Da Worfster

Worf101
12-01-2004, 08:28 AM
That's not the point. The point is, if you lose the remote (which would be the person's fault not the company's) or if god forbid the remote stop working, you are stuck. You cannot do anything with the Wave system. There are NO buttoms at all on the box per the commercial. You just sit there and look at it until your new remote comes in. And, you CD is stuck as well. Of course you could always take the sledgehammer approach to get the CD out. :D So much for user friendly Bose.

JSE

Sigh... saved me from having to re-point out the obvious.

Da Worfster :o

Resident Loser
12-01-2004, 08:59 AM
...it's all just so much Bose b!tchin'...in my limited experience with the brave new world of new-fangled, too-lazy-to-get-of-my-@$$ electronics, many units have any number of features/settings/options which can be accessed ONLY via it's remote...the folks in Framingham don't have THAT market cornered...face it, given their orientation, market research probably indicated the direction they chose to take, Bose owners bein' what they are...and since no self-respecting audiophile would be caught dead with Bose, what's the big issue other than grist for the mill...

BTW, a quick look at the owners manual via their site, reveals it does have a "snooze" feature(which can be customized to suit the individual), it can wake you up to either a radio station or a specific CD track and, after a two minute call to Bose Customer Support, a replacement remote(which I have yet to lose---unless my wife puts it where it doesn't belong) is all of ten bucks! Horrors! the pain!...the expense!...if you buy the unit, get a second remote as back-up if you're that paranoid about imminent failure or loss...and out of curiosoty, just how many remotes have YOU had to replace...my score: zero, maybe I'm just lucky and the law of averages will finally catch up to me.

The only problem is the five bills it cost's...for some folks that's no biggie...

jimHJJ(...Bose is no good, and Polk sold out, and NAD ain't what it used to be...)

Woochifer
12-01-2004, 11:47 AM
...it's all just so much Bose b!tchin'...in my limited experience with the brave new world of new-fangled, too-lazy-to-get-of-my-@$$ electronics, many units have any number of features/settings/options which can be accessed ONLY via it's remote...the folks in Framingham don't have THAT market cornered...face it, given their orientation, market research probably indicated the direction they chose to take, Bose owners bein' what they are...and since no self-respecting audiophile would be caught dead with Bose, what's the big issue other than grist for the mill...

Your limited experience seems to have left out the fact that clock radios and home theater systems are typically operated differently, and that their form factors follow different functions. A clock radio (which is what the Wave radio is) is mostly operated within arm's reach, a home theater system sits several feet from you. What you can easily reach with your hand without getting up, you operate with buttons on the unit. What you cannot reach with your hand without getting up, you operate with a remote. Why do you think all car stereos have buttons on the panel?

You're also making an awful lot of assumptions here about Bose's "market research". I give them credit for carving out some successful market niches for themselves by creating simple "plug and play" products, but this is one case where I think they simply outsmarted themselves.

Why are we commenting on this? Because Bose is advertising the thing night and day and none of us can get away from the freaking thing. As I type this, there's Wave radio ad right in the sidebar ------------------------->

"Performance: Everyone Can Recognize
Simplicity: Everyone Can Appreciate
Elegance: That Speaks for Itself"


BTW, a quick look at the owners manual via their site, reveals it does have a "snooze" feature(which can be customized to suit the individual), it can wake you up to either a radio station or a specific CD track and, after a two minute call to Bose Customer Support, a replacement remote(which I have yet to lose---unless my wife puts it where it doesn't belong) is all of ten bucks! Horrors! the pain!...the expense!...if you buy the unit, get a second remote as back-up if you're that paranoid about imminent failure or loss...and out of curiosoty, just how many remotes have YOU had to replace...my score: zero, maybe I'm just lucky and the law of averages will finally catch up to me.

Yeah, a dinky snooze button that sits on that matchbox sized remote. I don't know about you, but in the morning I'm rarely in a state of mind where I want to go fumbling around for a remote to turn the alarm off. A $500 alarm clock without a big fat easy to find snooze button? Forget that!

Also, how many of your other remotes are as small as the one that comes with that Wave radio? That Bose remote is small enough to drop down a vent hole or get sucked into a vacuum. I haven't lost any remotes recently, then again all of them are large enough for me to easily locate and not get dropped into a duct or vacuum cleaner. the only one I ever lost was a similarly diminutive sized one that came with a portable CD player. Took less than a month before that thing went byebye.

Resident Loser
12-02-2004, 06:33 AM
...how to approach this?...well, here goes...

"...Your limited experience seems to have left out the fact that clock radios and home theater systems are typically operated differently..."

Gee golly wilikers, no?...really?...fancy that!!!...having never seen the commercial and/or without any familiarity with the radio's said purpose, the only folks I have ever seen refer to it as a "clock radio"(with all that it infers) are the dyed-in-the-wool Bose bashers. If I may quote from the owners manual(available for your perusal @ the Bose website), in addition to a few other placement guidelines, advises:

"To enjoy maximum performance, place your Wave Music System across the room from where you will be listening"

Doesn't sound like the mfr. expects the unit to be viewed as a clock radio(in the traditional knock-over-the-lamp-and-phone-to-shut-the-d@mn-thing-off manner)...There isn't any room for it to be sitting on my nightstand, so it's up on the shelf, out of harms way...with controls that can only be reached with a step stool. Buttons, we don' need no stinkin' buttons...

'...You're also making an awful lot of assumptions here about Bose's "market research"...)

Which is why I used the word "probably"...but given my scenario AND the placement recs, it seems to have a consistent ring of that probability...just an edumacated guess...

"...Because Bose is advertising the thing night and day and none of us can get away from the freaking thing..."

Well, pish-tosh...there are any number of things I find patently offensive, that creep into my conciousness, uninvited, via various media...we all have our crosses to bear...I simply hit "mute" or change channels...good thing I have a remote handy...

"...a dinky snooze button that sits on that matchbox sized remote...fumbling around for a remote..."

The remote is the size of a credit card and about as thick as three to five of 'em...it's shape(thickness-wise)easily tells you which way is up, regardless of whatever shape you're in AND the position of the required button is pretty easy to remember after about the second or third use...of course, YMMV...AND it has hit the floor with no tragic consequences...plus no broken lamps, etc. As I said, as long as my wife puts it where it belongs, finding and using it doesn't really tax my abilities...face down in the pillow and such...

"...That Bose remote is small enough to drop down a vent hole or get sucked into a vacuum..."

Well, I suppose...but, if you have holes big enough to drop the remote into, the size of the thing wouldn't be MY chief worry...with holes THAT big, I suppose another "possibility" is for a Venezuelan fruit bat to fly in and carry it off mistaking it for the odd block of guava paste...it could happen!!!...and I don't know about you, but I rarely use my shop vac with it's 4in. diameter hose to "tidy" the bedroom...or living room for that matter...

jimHJJ(...still seems like much ado about nothing...)

nightflier
12-02-2004, 11:09 AM
We're all forgetting the first rule of technology: If someone has paid 5 bills for a techy gizmo (in this case the Wave/Clock radio), then they want to believe that they didn't get ripped off. How many of us have ever railed against a new toy we just started playing with? I didn't think so. Only when a better toy comes along, do we become critical.

I just bought a new car, and to me that's the most beutifull piece of engineering I ever owned. But once a new design of the same model comes out, I'll be a little less enthusiastic. When Consumer Reports bashes it, I'll be even more vexed. Once its paint starts fading, I'll be looking at new cars, and when I finally sell it, it may be the worst car I ever drove. It's just the way we talk about the toys we spend our hard-earned dollars on.

If I had plunked down $500 for a Wave/Clock radio, I would defend it in these forums 'til my fingers bled. The fact is, we're not going to convince ResLoser that he got ripped off. If we can wait a few months, he might come back & tell us so himself when he looses that remote, or a in a few years when the thing craps out. In my opinion, its just a hunk of plastic parts, no different than all the other Wallmart crap that is built by slave labor and wafts across the ocean to rip us off and polute our landfills a few years later.

But guess what folks, I wouldn't know that unless I had also bought something like that. I can still remember my first JVC boombox monstrosity that I bought after a year of paper deliveries and car washes. I loved that sucker and it was the worst sounding radio/tape player I ever bought. Unfortunately, it would not be the last. Who hasn't bought a Hyundai Excel (for me, the engine blew up in my face on the freeway), a Ford Festiva (transmission died in a year), Realistic clock radio (started smoking), Fisher CD player (had to break it open to get my CD out), and Philips speakers (paper cones so thin they were almost see-through).

So yes, Bose is overpriced, sub-par, manufactured in less honorable ways, and marketed extremely well. But you won't hear that from ResLoser, any less that we are likely to hear anyone else knock their latest acquisition. And Yes, I love my new Polk Monitor 60's, so bring it on.

(OK, everyone, in an orderly fashion, single file, one at a time, starting with ResLoser...)

Resident Loser
12-02-2004, 01:06 PM
...never "took" or was deleted or whatever so...

I have an older non-CD unit which cost me zip...nada...zilch...zero...won it in a free raffle from a local retailer(yeah, I know second prize was two of 'em)...works pretty good especially since I added a GPX portable CDP which cost $7.50(after mail-in rebate)...would I buy one?...dunno...5bux is a tough nut to crack and I'd rather have a DeWalt 12" compound-bevel, sliding miter saw for another $100...

I'm not defending the company or it's products and practices, they seem to have happy customers and fill whatever niche they apply themselves to...my main complaint is that it's just always open season on Bose...and some of those complaints seem steeped in ignorance...at least when I go off on a, er...shall we say bit of "audiophile" hoo-haa, I have the common decency to at least familiarize myself with the product so I can use the mfrs. own words and claims in my attempt to undermine it...most of the Bose bashing seems to be just so much sour grapes with little or no substance to back it up...

Sooo...as long as it's a public forum, people can say whatever they want, within reason of course, and I will respond as I see fit, particularly when I can impeach the credibility of of those simply making opinionated statements.

jimHJJ(...and so it goes...)

Woochifer
12-02-2004, 01:53 PM
...how to approach this?...well, here goes...

"...Your limited experience seems to have left out the fact that clock radios and home theater systems are typically operated differently..."

Gee golly wilikers, no?...really?...fancy that!!!...having never seen the commercial and/or without any familiarity with the radio's said purpose, the only folks I have ever seen refer to it as a "clock radio"(with all that it infers) are the dyed-in-the-wool Bose bashers. If I may quote from the owners manual(available for your perusal @ the Bose website), in addition to a few other placement guidelines, advises:

"To enjoy maximum performance, place your Wave Music System across the room from where you will be listening"

Doesn't sound like the mfr. expects the unit to be viewed as a clock radio(in the traditional knock-over-the-lamp-and-phone-to-shut-the-d@mn-thing-off manner)...There isn't any room for it to be sitting on my nightstand, so it's up on the shelf, out of harms way...with controls that can only be reached with a step stool. Buttons, we don' need no stinkin' buttons...

If they expect this thing to be placed across the room like an full size audio system, then they really need to poll more people who buy those things. I don't personally know anyone who listens to a Wave radio while sitting across the room. People I know who use those things use them as a desktop radio or as an alarm clock in their bedroom. If Bose had not intended for people to use it as an alarm clock, then why would they include the alarm function AND a snooze function? If they really intend for it to function solely as a music system, then why not eliminate the clock and alarm functions along with the buttons? My receiver and boom box don't have a clock or an alarm.

Who do you know of that uses a wireless remote for any device that's within arm's reach? If you think it's smart design for a device used in this manner to come with no buttons, then by all means enjoy yourself!

Every review of the old Wave radio I ever read referred to it as a clock radio or as a tabletop radio. I mean, after all that thing displayed the time on the front panel and had a bunch of buttons on the top of the unit, one of which was a snooze button. Gosh, Bose eliminates the buttons and instantly it's a "music system" and not a "clock radio"! Lots of semantics, but not a whole lotta substance. I guess everybody from the old Stereo Review to What Hi-Fi are all just Bose bashers because they dare to say "clock radio"!


The remote is the size of a credit card and about as thick as three to five of 'em...it's shape(thickness-wise)easily tells you which way is up, regardless of whatever shape you're in AND the position of the required button is pretty easy to remember after about the second or third use...of course, YMMV...AND it has hit the floor with no tragic consequences...plus no broken lamps, etc. As I said, as long as my wife puts it where it belongs, finding and using it doesn't really tax my abilities...face down in the pillow and such...

Again, why even bother with a remote, when a button serves that function better from within arm's reach? Seems like designers gone amuck, and forgetting that form needs to follow function. If you feel the aesthetics trump the functionality, then you're obviously their target customer.


Well, I suppose...but, if you have holes big enough to drop the remote into, the size of the thing wouldn't be MY chief worry...with holes THAT big, I suppose another "possibility" is for a Venezuelan fruit bat to fly in and carry it off mistaking it for the odd block of guava paste...it could happen!!!...and I don't know about you, but I rarely use my shop vac with it's 4in. diameter hose to "tidy" the bedroom...or living room for that matter...

jimHJJ(...still seems like much ado about nothing...)

Plenty of homes have the ventilation ducts running through the floor. I used to live in a place like that, and things that would fall into the vents included coins, keys, credit cards, watches, etc. A dinky remote would easily fit as well. If you got issues with Venezuelan fruit bats, then you should hire an exterminator.

woodman
12-02-2004, 02:05 PM
... I'm not defending the company or it's products and practices, they seem to have happy customers and fill whatever niche they apply themselves to...my main complaint is that it's just always open season on Bose...and some of those complaints seem steeped in ignorance...

... people can say whatever they want, within reason of course, and I will respond as I see fit, particularly when I can impeach the credibility of of those simply making opinionated statements.

jimHJJ(...and so it goes...)

Here's an "opinionated statement" for you. Contrary to what others feel about Bose and why they deserve to be unmercifully "bashed" - that their products are way overpriced, under-performers, my Bose-bashing has to do with their complete lack of business ethics and morals. To me, they epitomize the very worst aspect of American capitalism ... the dogged pursuit of maximum profits at the expense of everything and everyone else. The unscrupulous business practices that they employ are beneath contempt in my book ... they should eat sh!t and die!

So ... "Bose is Amazing"? They sure as hell are. Amazingly corrupt, that is.

Woochifer
12-02-2004, 02:34 PM
I'm not defending the company or it's products and practices, they seem to have happy customers and fill whatever niche they apply themselves to...my main complaint is that it's just always open season on Bose...and some of those complaints seem steeped in ignorance...at least when I go off on a, er...shall we say bit of "audiophile" hoo-haa, I have the common decency to at least familiarize myself with the product so I can use the mfrs. own words and claims in my attempt to undermine it...most of the Bose bashing seems to be just so much sour grapes with little or no substance to back it up...

Quite the contrary, you get a lot of Bose bashing on audio forums precisely because so many people HAVE first hand experience with Bose products and enough knowledge of what else is available in the market to assess how Bose stacks up against the competition. It's easy enough to find Bose products in stores, or listen to them when visiting other people's homes, so it's not like people chime in out of ignorance. Some of the most virulent posts I've seen come from people who have previously owned Bose products.

My own experience with the Wave radios has been through store demos, listening to them on a friend's kitchen counter, and at hotels (many of which use the Wave radios as bedside clocks). I've never trashed them for being a lousy product, because they're not. But, for $350 and now $500 for the new buttonless CD version, they simply offer poor value, especially compared to competing products I've heard like the Cambridge Soundworks radios (which BTW come with both a remote AND front panel buttons). Frankly, the reason why this thread came about is because Bose normally does very well with matching the form with the function for consumers. This new Wave radio just seems like an odd misstep from them, given that making things simple and functional is normally Bose's strength.

Personally, I've got no sour grapes because I've never bought anything from them (I did inherit a pair of 301s that I used as surround speakers for a couple of years). The sourest grapes I've seen have come from people who paid big bucks for a Lifestyle or Acoustimass system and later found that they need to buy a whole new system if they want to upgrade.


Sooo...as long as it's a public forum, people can say whatever they want, within reason of course, and I will respond as I see fit, particularly when I can impeach the credibility of of those simply making opinionated statements.

jimHJJ(...and so it goes...)

We're ALL making opinionated statements here. If your whole purpose for posting has to do with "impeaching" people's credibility, then I wonder what that has to do with the "common decency" that you talked about earlier.

Worf101
12-02-2004, 07:00 PM
...never "took" or was deleted or whatever so...

I have an older non-CD unit which cost me zip...nada...zilch...zero...won it in a free raffle from a local retailer(yeah, I know second prize was two of 'em)...works pretty good especially since I added a GPX portable CDP which cost $7.50(after mail-in rebate)...would I buy one?...dunno...5bux is a tough nut to crack and I'd rather have a DeWalt 12" compound-bevel, sliding miter saw for another $100...

I'm not defending the company or it's products and practices, they seem to have happy customers and fill whatever niche they apply themselves to...my main complaint is that it's just always open season on Bose...and some of those complaints seem steeped in ignorance...at least when I go off on a, er...shall we say bit of "audiophile" hoo-haa, I have the common decency to at least familiarize myself with the product so I can use the mfrs. own words and claims in my attempt to undermine it...most of the Bose bashing seems to be just so much sour grapes with little or no substance to back it up...

Sooo...as long as it's a public forum, people can say whatever they want, within reason of course, and I will respond as I see fit, particularly when I can impeach the credibility of of those simply making opinionated statements.

jimHJJ(...and so it goes...)

First of all I defy you to read my posts over the last 5 years I've been here and show me statements of "audiophile hoo-haa".

Second, I've plenty of experience with the Bose Wave Radio and other systems, mostly from trying to get the damn things fixed, particularly the Accoustimass system. There's a free "Fender Guitar" wave radio sitting in my basement that I got from my guitar player who owns a music store and got it and several other's as freebies. I don't use it because the boombox in the basement SOUNDS BETTER!!!!

Glen Rasmussen
12-02-2004, 07:26 PM
QUOTE]
I have had a bose radio since they first came out. The addition of a Cd to the face is a great ad on. The little remote I have never lost, velcro it somewhere. All in all it is a great little unit for bedroom, cottage etc. It has stood my test of time and torture. Razz

Resident Loser
12-03-2004, 06:32 AM
...and at the risk of repeating myself, my particular situation places the unit on a shelf that allows it to be situated as per placement guidelines...and it sounds quite good in the process. To reiterate what I have previously stated, if you just plunk it down any ol' place, performance will suffer and while it's not "across" it certainly is beyond "arm's reach"...just at a 90degree angle, not a 180...

Alarms and sooze? I recently purchased an Onkyo MC35TECH mini-system to play with, and it has alarms and timers of all sorts...it consists of a receiver and a three-disc CDP and two, reasonably accurate, bass-reflex loudspeakers...it's considered a stereo...does it outperform the Wave?...well, yes and no...obviously having two loudspeakers I can juggle, gives it a better image and sounstage, but...it's a bigger footprint which just won't fit were the Bose goes...and given the Wave's positioning, relative to my listening position, image isn't a problem...so it's a series of trade-offs...plug'n'play simplicity...I'm sure that comes into play more often than not...dorm rooms, small offices...folks who couldn't be bothered or are technically challenged...again aimed at a market, pure an simple...

And perhaps, in a rethink of their marketing strategy, the greedy, slimey, corrupt, world dominating gorilla, decided to remove the onus of "clock radio" by simply removing those buttons...furthermore once you integrate other functions(i.e. a CDP) it does become a "system" by the very definiton of the word...I mean they still sell a Wave Radio in addition to it...

As an addendum, they have this wonderful product available to help preclude dropping things into the monstrously gaping holes of floor vents...it's called screening...

jimHJJ(...yeah, that's the ticket...)

midfiguy
12-03-2004, 06:36 AM
Hello everyone, long time no see... ...anyways.... my OPINIONS.

)BTW - I don't own any Bose Wave, or Cambridge Soundworks radio or anything, I have a $50 Sony Alarm clock with a CD player built in. For my better listening, I have a cheap pair of cheap Paradigms wired into the Bedroom and hung them off brackets, still cheaper than the cost of these radios and better sounding, but to each their own.)

1. The wave radio is not a bad product, it's just an overpriced product at the prices they are charging. Are they as bad as some say? No, not really. I mean, to compare it to a $5 GPX system or something like that like some people do is ridiculous. I think because it has the name Bose, people have to say it's the worst sounding thing in the history of products, and I think that's stretching it.

2. The remote is small, so what? There are PLENTLY of other products out there that have had small remotes (some even smaller) but no one complains about them (at least not to this degree). Why? "Because this product is Bose, so let me take everything to the Nth degree!" How about all of those car stereos that have even smaller remotes? And there have been other mini systems that have had remotes that small too. Hey, take care of your stuff and maybe you won't lose the remote. It's really that simple.

3. Yes, to have no buttons on the system is really stupid, but a great sales ploy as other people pointed out. BTW - the replacement remote is $9.99, not $100 as someone suggested.


In short, would I ever buy the Wave Radio? Heck no, to spend that much on a radio/CD is crazy. I'd rather wire (like my father did) a discman CD with tuner to the cambridge soundworks Soundworks system (he used it in the kitchen and put the tiny cubes upside down underneath the top kitchen cabinets, like those under cabinet radios), and put the little powered woofer under the island and put the discman on the counter, and the sound is WAY better than the Wave for about 1/2 the cost). But my point is, people just destroy Bose because it's Bose. Yes, they have many faults, but so do many other competitors, but no one goes nuts on them.

Resident Loser
12-03-2004, 06:40 AM
...with all due respect, let's play like we play the cable game...

What proof do you have? Anything objective?, facts?, figures?...heck, I'm all ears...show me...or is it all subjective and anecdotal in nature?

jimHJJ(...jus' wunnerin'...)

Resident Loser
12-03-2004, 08:35 AM
...I have yet to hear any of the Bose products produce their full potential even in a Bose store...a lot of the carping simply seems yada, yada, yada, Bose is bad...so quite the contrary to yours, IMO, it's jump on the bandwagon and have a bash...

Pardon the tangent but, it's been said before and I tend to agree, that applying the same listening parameters to direct radiators and nearly all Bose loudspeakers is not going to tell the whole story.

That quite the contrary to mass "audiophile" opinion, the Acoustimass stuff seems perfectly suitable to HT( which is an abomination of and by itself), ...in fact my first exposure to it was in a PC Richard where they were playing the Eagles "When Hell Freezes Over" DVD, seemed fine to me...I was so impressed, that it was the first disc I bought when I finally got a DVD player(another freebie), which, by-the-by, just plays through my tee-vee...Was it the disc or was it the playback system? I think a little of both...although my reference system has an incredible bottom end and all the other required attributes, the Bose seemed to do a good job IMO. Add simple hook-up and high scores in the WAF category...that's enough for some.

Again, the Wave products couldn't be simpler, and in the right circumstances that's all one may need...and yes, you pay for convenience, it's factored into the price, along with the ad costs...just like prescription drugs and a host of other things...I mean people love ads that congratulate their "good taste" and all...and they love thinking what they own is the "best"...how do else do you account for all the morons running around with their Gucci, Pucci-knock-offs, who can't wait to get to the next outlet mall to buy sub-par, name brand, made-specifically-for-the-outlet-mall goods?

As far as upgrade-ability...that segment of the market most likely doesn't take that into consideration...to repeat, plug'n'play. If they trade-up every year in the car department, they'll probably do it in the stereo/HT one also...Any one who has intentions of using a "building block" approach to their system oughta' know better...if they don't, shame on them...caveat emptor and I have no problem with anyone tellin' those folks the realities involved at the outset...

Finally, to put things into proper perspective, the "common decency" of gathering information about an issue, goes hand-in-hand with "impeaching" the credibility of anyone who profers non-issues...like eutectic solders and Teflon coatings or nit-piks the cost of a replacement remote.

jimHJJ(...I much prefer being informed...)

Resident Loser
12-03-2004, 08:55 AM
...replace your dilithium crystals and switch to threaded mode...I think you'll see I was responding directly to Nightflier...

The general part of my post re: familiarizing myself with the facts to do battle against the "audiophile hoo-haa" promoters was just that..."general"...everything from wire that went into space to revealing the true purpose of eutectic solders, IEC connectors and CAT5, Teflon coated wire...If it now extends to what seems to be conjecture and/or hearsay from Bose bashers, so be it! So many balloons and me with my little pin, what's a boy to do?

jimHJJ(...pop, pop, pop, pop...say...isn't that from Die Zauberflote?...)

nightflier
12-03-2004, 11:41 AM
I'm happy that you're happy with your Bose radio. There are much better values out there, and the point of these forums is to help you figure that out before you purchase. After the purchase, these forums really can't do much more for you.

In the end, it's the music that matters, not the electronics. If you are now sitting back and enjoying your music on equipment that satisfies you, then what are we arguing about? IMHO, I think it's a pitty that the company's practices did not give you pause, that the price didn't make you hesitate, and that the many previous discussions on these forums about Bose didn't way into your decision. But hey, to each his own.

But starting a discussion with "Bose is Amazing!!!!" is really an invitation to an argument. Even is you had said "Martin Logan is Amazing!!!" after purchasing the speakers, there would still be many here who would indulge you in a hardy debate. I almost wonder if you didn't just blow $500 on a clock radio just to come and tell us about it.

I guess I'll just wait until you roll over & crack that remote lost in your bedsheets....

Woochifer
12-03-2004, 12:29 PM
...I have yet to hear any of the Bose products produce their full potential even in a Bose store...a lot of the carping simply seems yada, yada, yada, Bose is bad...so quite the contrary to yours, IMO, it's jump on the bandwagon and have a bash...

But, you get that issue with ANY audio product that you hear in a store demo. If I do in store listenings of competing products, they're all hampered by similar handicaps.

Just attributing the heat that Bose takes in various audio forums to some bandwagon bash mentality just doesn't sync with the fact that so many regulars on this board and others HAVE owned Bose products and have done valid comparisons with competing products. I had a pair of 301s in my home for two years, and base my opinion that its a below average speaker for its price point on actual listenings and home comparisons (some of which were done under blind conditions). Sure, some of the Bose bashing goes overboard, but the most common complaints about their products -- poor value, substandard performance relative to competing products at the same price point, lack of upgradability, etc. -- are pretty applicable across much of their product line.


Again, the Wave products couldn't be simpler, and in the right circumstances that's all one may need...and yes, you pay for convenience, it's factored into the price, along with the ad costs...just like prescription drugs and a host of other things...I mean people love ads that congratulate their "good taste" and all...and they love thinking what they own is the "best"...how do else do you account for all the morons running around with their Gucci, Pucci-knock-offs, who can't wait to get to the next outlet mall to buy sub-par, name brand, made-specifically-for-the-outlet-mall goods?

And again, the whole purpose of this thread was to point out that Bose probably outsmarted themselves by going to this buttonless remote-only design on their new Wave radio. Has nothing to do with snob appeal or designer prestige, but a simple matter of functionality, which is the design aspect that Bose normally does very well compared to its competitors.


As far as upgrade-ability...that segment of the market most likely doesn't take that into consideration...to repeat, plug'n'play. If they trade-up every year in the car department, they'll probably do it in the stereo/HT one also...Any one who has intentions of using a "building block" approach to their system oughta' know better...if they don't, shame on them...caveat emptor and I have no problem with anyone tellin' those folks the realities involved at the outset...

I've followed this forum for about four years, and these are some of the most oft-repeated questions you'll see -- Can I upgrade the subwoofer on my Acoustimass? How do I plug different speakers into my Lifestyle system? Telling those Bose owners that their $3,000 investment requires a whole new system to upgrade it is not what they want to hear, but it's the reality. Boards like this one are one of the few places where they will hear about the drawbacks to Bose's proprietary, nonupgradable systems. Think they'll hear much about it in a magazine, on the radio, or at a retail store (the largest of which all carry Bose, and where Bose products give them the fattest margins this side of Monster Cable)? Saying that a consumer should know better presumes that the information is readily available for them to consider.


Finally, to put things into proper perspective, the "common decency" of gathering information about an issue, goes hand-in-hand with "impeaching" the credibility of anyone who profers non-issues...like eutectic solders and Teflon coatings or nit-piks the cost of a replacement remote.

jimHJJ(...I much prefer being informed...)

Uh, sounds more like argument for its own sake, but maybe that's just me.


The general part of my post re: familiarizing myself with the facts to do battle against the "audiophile hoo-haa" promoters was just that..."general"...everything from wire that went into space to revealing the true purpose of eutectic solders, IEC connectors and CAT5, Teflon coated wire...If it now extends to what seems to be conjecture and/or hearsay from Bose bashers, so be it! So many balloons and me with my little pin, what's a boy to do?

I guess not. Conjecture and/or hearsay from Bose bashers? Sounds more like contrarian speculation on your part. I hear a lot air escaping, better be careful with where you stick that pin. Might hurt yourself.

Resident Loser
12-03-2004, 12:31 PM
...I no speak de Ingles so good, you betcha'...

Did you actually read this thread? I didn't start the thread and I didn't purchase the friggin' radio!!!

Do you have a prescription for that cannabis?

Try viewing the thread in one of the alternate modes...you may actually see who is answering who and who is saying what to whom...

jimHJJ(...I have seen the future and I'm glad I'll be dead!...)

Resident Loser
12-03-2004, 12:37 PM
NFText

jxnew
12-03-2004, 02:26 PM
my former nextdoor neighbor had the accouistmass cubes. decent(just decent) sounding for movies (forget the woofer though). overpriced. period. its hard to say good things about it when you listen to it and harder to say bad things about it especially when the neighbor is nextdoor guy and when he seems to be overly happy about it.
but someone calls Bose 'unethical'?? what is so unethical about pricing it high if there are people to buy for the price they put? there would be tons of people who believe anyone who spends 60k on a Hummer is a complete idiot. does that make the company unethical? what about the 28k virgin mary sandwitch that was sold in ebay? will the lady who sold it go to hell because she is unethical? may be she should have ended the auction when it crossed 9.99 and gave it away to the guy who bid 10? there are millions of people who believe Mr.Bush went to war for oil? Does it make this war unethical? hmm.. may be yeah. okay wrong analogy. But the point is that, Bose's clever marketing/product design guys had the brains to 'think for' a lot of cute-tiny-hip-speaker-with-big(doesntmeangood)-sound-loving people and market it it to them. I call Bose smart, not unethical. Will I ever buy the tiny cubes? NO. Will I buy their wavesystem? NO. Will I buy their towers for my rec room? YES, if i get a real good deal.

nightflier
12-03-2004, 03:28 PM
This thread was getting so long, I had forgotten who started the thread. I stand corrected. But, hey, ResLoser, you took the ball and ran with it.

Worf, you started this, you may need to end it....

Worf101
12-03-2004, 08:38 PM
This thread was getting so long, I had forgotten who started the thread. I stand corrected. But, hey, ResLoser, you took the ball and ran with it.

Worf, you started this, you may need to end it....

I just gave my opinon based up on what I'd read---------------------------------------> over here....
and dealt with through use of the first Wave Radio... Simple as that..

Da Worfster :(