budget sub

[Marty01]

well.. im looking for a sub on a budget.. yeah i know.. not a good idea.. but considering i have NO sub in my present system (i do however have 3way towers with 12 in woofers that go low anough.. about 40Hz) anything really is an upgrade hehe

heres what im looking for;
inexpensive, durable, good adjustments (id like at least X-over and volume) and of course something that goes lower then my towers.. ive listenned to 4 so far here are the choices;

Kenwood SW-303; 10in woofer 100 watts rms price $250CDN
Quest QS8II; 8in woofer 100 watts rms price is $100CDN
Quest QS10II; 10in woofer 150 watts rms price $200CDN
Yamaha model unknown; 6.5in woofer 70 watts rms price is $200CDN

of course i hafta consider that i DO live in an appartment and do not wish to get an eviction notice anytime soon.. which is why i considered that 8 in Quest sub as it wa the most mellow of them all... even the Yammy kicked its butt hehehe but then again.. thats what quality parts will do

another option i have and i hate to say.. is a 10in with 100 watts rms at Walmart for $190CDN but i haven't heard it yet.. im tempted to remove it from my list as it only has 90 day warrantee and well.. no walmart employee seems to want to let me listen to it so far.. maybe a supervisor/manager would i dunno

what do u guys think? any suggestions so i dont buy a dud? so far.. i thin kive done my homework well but im still new at this so any suggestions is welcommed!

[This Guy]

are your main speakers the 3 way towers? If so don't even both with one of these cheap subs. The towers will probably go just as low and probably louder than one of those cheap subs. If you mate a cheap little sub like that with these big towers, you're going to find the sub can't keep up with the towers in volume and it'll just hold your system back. But if you absolutely need a cheep sub I'd get the 100 watt 10" from partsexpress.com. Supposed to be good for the money.

[PAT.P]

The Audioshop in ottawa have the Dahlquist QX100SA at $299. this one is not a cheap sub (it is half price sale) I have one of these and its simply great ! The volume control is in front and 2oo rms .Go to their website and check Dahlquist product ,they deliver in Canada www.audioshop.on.ca Pat.P

[Marty01]

well thanks for the options folks.. why would a sub not go as deep as my towers?? 40 Hz is as low as they go.. the kenwood for example.. alledgedly goes down to 25Hz... maybe 27-30 IMO cuz it just didnt seem THAT low.. the Yammy claims 30 Hz and i would trust Yamaha to print accurate info with their rep.. the Quest.. welll.. that 8 in really wouldnt ADD much bass to my system but it would give a bit more punch.. just not alot of it.. $100 worth? thats debetable.. which is why i havent baught it yet.. the QS10II claims it goes down to 32Hz.. but honestly.. felt a tad bit deeper.. wish i had a meter to check in store each and every one.. but i dont.. so i gotta go with my ears.. all of these subs seem to go deeper then my towers./. which is why ive considered them in the first place

i checked out that site thats been mentionned.. but everything blows over my budget... 250 total.. sub in my hands.. hooked up and playing.. but thanks for the idea :)

anyone have suggestions on brands/models and what else to look for in a sub in this price range? anything is helpfull

[Marty01]

after reading my own post.. i guess what i shouldve said in the first place is..

my towers dont go deep enough... have a budget of 250 CDN total... of those choices i mentionned.. any thaughts?? hehehe// of course.. NOW i think of keeping things simple

[Lensman]

after reading my own post.. i guess what i shouldve said in the first place is..

my towers dont go deep enough... have a budget of 250 CDN total... of those choices i mentionned.. any thaughts?? hehehe// of course.. NOW i think of keeping things simple

First a couple of things to consider:

Low frequency extension isn't the only thing that needs to be considered when buying a sub. It's important you match the sub with your mains as much as possible or you're likely to be dissatisfied with the results. For example you could pair a set of fast, tight mains to a slow, sloppy sub and get more bass. But what good is it if it muddies up the overall sound?

Frequency response ratings do not provide an accurate picture of how a speaker will sound. Ratings can be quite unrealistic depending on the company and even the price range the product is in (For example, how many portable boom boxes have you seen with ratings of 100 watts per channel?). You may even be encountering this with the rated response from your mains and the actual bass you're getting from them. Forty hertz is decently low if you're really getting it. In fact, there's very little in music that goes lower.

Driver size will not determine if a sub is "polite". I've heard 8" subs with lower bass and more volume than other 12" subs.

That said, the best thing you can do is go and listen to a few. Cross off the ones you know sound wrong then buy the one you think is best. Try it with your mains and if it doesn't fit, take it back and try another one.

Your equipment list shows Cerwin Vega speakers as your mains. So from a matching standpoint, you might be best served getting a Cerwin Vega sub. A V-10S would probably be in your budget range. The caveat of course, is that it's a Cerwin Vega. As CV speakers are typically loud, it may not be the best choice for your apartment situation.

Other options in the price range you might consider are the Athena Audition Series 10, Polk PSW10, and Velodyne VS-10. I would rate them above the choices you listed. I know from personal experience the Velodyne would fit your apartment requirement. But they may not be a good fit to your mains.

[Marty01]

well ive alread listenned to many subs.. about 12 actually.. and these 4 stand out in my mind.. and yes i know driver size means nothing about if sub is polite or not.. its just what ive heard from listening them.. i mean.. that 6.5in yammy was comparable to that 10 in kenwood sub.. kenwood's id go deeper to my ears.. more rumbling if you will.. you felt it more...

my towes do let me hear the low low LOOW lows in a movie.. but id like to be able to feel them just a little bit.. not enough to annoy the neighbours.. but enough to trule enjoy my movies..and honestly.. im doubtfull i woul;d be satisfied by that 8incher.. but it would add some bass to my system.. that im pretty sure.. and for the price... its tough for me to say no.. except i may very well get home and find out what i thaught was right is wrong.. hehehe

[Geoffcin]

On just about everything EXCEPT hearing a 8" sub that sounds better than a 12." Even an 1000 watt 8" Earthquake Supernova is eclipsed by most competitive 12" subs.

I totally agree that a demo is a must, but paradoxically I bought my Velodynes unheard except for the name. I got my back in 2000 though, so it was a different time.

Subs are really a LOT better than they were even 5 years ago when if you didn't have a Velodyne, Paradigm, or a Rel, you were gambling with the quality. Hsu, SvS and others have pushed the bar so high that nobody can get away with a "bad" sub anymore and stay in business. Still, as with speakers you might find one that just sounds "right" to you.

[Geoffcin]

well.. im looking for a sub on a budget.. yeah i know.. not a good idea.. but considering i have NO sub in my present system (i do however have 3way towers with 12 in woofers that go low anough.. about 40Hz) anything really is an upgrade hehe
!


Here's a 500 watts 12" CV sub for $200

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3275&item=5732537697&rd=1

I'm sure that would rock the joint!

[Marty01]

*drools* yeah... i KNOW that would pound the joint good.. hehe little too good.. would also get my eviction notice fedex' ed to me hehe but thatnks for the idea though.. off to ebay we go...


and btw folks.. that Walmart special.. is made by Acoustech Labs.. Canadian company out of vancouver.. they offer 1 year warrantee.. i thaught it was 90 days.. still havent heard it though..

10" woofer, 100watts RMS
bandpass portes box desing.. whatever that is.. hehehe.. combined box designs.. or marketting hype? i think the later... stats says it goes to 25Hz.. but ive yet to hear.. so i can comment on that.. and the price is $190CDN

so if i like the sound more then theQS10II.. i might go with this instead... but i do like the Kenwood as well.. the yamaha for some reason.. seemed like it wasnt really giving kick to the lows.. but it does go deeper then my tower.. hmmm.. seems like im gonn hafta get my test tones cd out for the next trip to the shops hehe.. lets make damn sure it goes deeper then my towers hehe

[cone]

As a general rule...no sub beats a cheap sub...for music anyway....bargain subs tend to be difficult to blend into main speakers...especially small ones...at any rate...in your price range...I would try to go used..and stay with a CND maker....Paradigm comes to mind...PS-1000 is a decent sub...roughlu $600 new in the states...not sure how much up NOrth...PSB,Energy,etc..might be good choices too...a bargain sub that I really thought was quite good was the B&W asw 600....10" sealed sub that retails for $500 in the usa...very musical for the price...and like others have mentioned....sub specialists that only make subs and survive via direct purchases are probably the best bet for value...HSU,Adire,SVS,OUtlaw,etc...these might be out of your range...but over the long haul...if you decide to upgrade your mains,etc...would be a wise move...MJ acoustics also makes a great sub based on BRrit reviews...the PRO 50....

[Marty01]

well.. a sub.. should add some kick to movie scenes.. i think we can all agree on that.. *key word being SHOULD* doubling my budget for a HT sub far outweights the benefits in my mind anyways... it is one way of approaching my dilema i do agree with the mentality that i might as well pony up right now then upgrade later.. however.. i cant jusify that.. of the subs i audition all but one.. will add a kick to the scenes that lack kick at present time.. the only one im tettering as to would it add kick is the QS8II as i mentionned earlier.. for your needs.. cheap subs probably wont cut it.. but for my listening room.. AKA the living room.. measuring a WHOPPING *note sarcasm* 12 by 20.. rough guess at that...my needs are different that yours.. obviously..not to start a flame war.. but i just dont see the value of your oppinion in this case..

to give perhaps a better idea of my present situation.. one of my friends has5 sattelite speakers and a sub.. his system kicks more then what i have.. even though my towers do give out decent bass... you can hear the lows.. but you dont feel it at all for listening levels i use because im in an apt... a sub would give me a little kcik whilst keeping volume decently low as to not get evicted.. during day time.. im nto worried of having my neighbour know that im watching a movie.. but at night.. id rather not have them be able to mime the scenes.. hehehe thaought that could be funny hehehe *ponders which scenes to have the neighbours act out... * oh the possibilities! hehehe

[Lensman]

well.. a sub.. should add some kick to movie scenes.. i think we can all agree on that.. *key word being SHOULD*

...my needs are different that yours.. obviously..not to start a flame war.. but i just dont see the value of your oppinion in this case..

In all probability you're correct. Many lower priced 12" 3-way speakers have little significant bass below about 80 hz. despite what ratings they might claim. I owned a set of Pioneer 12" 3-ways that also claimed a low end of 40 hz. When I finally measured them, I discovered the actual -3 db point was around 90 hz. If the same holds for you, just about any sub will give you more "kick."

But what Cone said, "no sub beats a cheap sub...for music anyway....bargain subs tend to be difficult to blend into main speakers" is also true. Most low priced subs are unsuitable for music. This is not because they can't produce low bass frequencies. It's because they often can't produce a range of DIFFERENT low bass frequencies.

Take, for example, the "Wal-Mart special" you mention. You state this is a bandpass design. These subs completely enclose the woofer in the box and all bass is emitted through a port. Bandpass designs are popular on the low end because they can easily be designed to play loud or low depending on the needs and because the woofer cone doesn't move as much other designs, which can limit the amount of distortion produced. But this same design can also restrict the sub's sound to a very limted bandwidth, producing bass that's sloppy, boomy, and often overbearing. As Cone stated, this often makes them difficult to match with mains. When the sub is playing you KNOW the sound is coming from the sub. That's not to say all bandpass designs suck. Some are exceptional. But they require an attention to design you simply won't find in an under $200 sub.

The limited frequency range is common on most low-end subs (bandpass or otherwise) and is often referred to as "one note bass." It is a this type of sound incapable of reproducing the great detail required by music such as Jazz or Classical.

Movies are definitely more forgiving, so if these considerations are not concerns, buy whatever you like. Just don't be surprised if every explosion, earthquake, or thundering flyby sounds exactly the same.

Does this mean you can't buy something reasonable with your budget? No. But it does mean you need to be very careful in your selection and it's critical you listen to what you're considering and don't just buy something online based on price. The choices I mentioned previously should be reasonably available at stores in your area. Go listen to them and others. Then if the stores are charging too much, see if you can find them cheaper online.



Agree with Lensman on just about everything EXCEPT hearing a 8" sub that sounds better than a 12." Even an 1000 watt 8" Earthquake Supernova is eclipsed by most competitive 12" subs.

I should have been clearer. Geoffcin is correct in disagreeing with me on subs above the $300 price point. However, in your budget range I stand by my comment that driver size does not equal more/better performance.



...a sub would give me a little kcik whilst keeping volume decently low as to not get evicted.. during day time.. im nto worried of having my neighbour know that im watching a movie.. but at night..

Again, I recommend you consider the choices I mentioned - especially the Velodyne VX-10.

[spacedeckman]

With a budget sub, you have two choices that are somewhat mutually exclusive. You can get one that will play loud, or go sorta deep. If you want one that does both well, you are no longer in budget territory.

You don't say what your speakers are, but most of the 3 way 12" speakers that have come out over the past decade have been budget specials. Typically, they are designed for show, and to play louder. Very often, the woofer isn't even a real "woofer" rather a "full range driver" utilizing a very small motor structure and weak magnet assembly. Which is okay, since the cabinet couldn't support bass anyway. A flexi-flyer cabinet acts like a shock absorber for bass.

I'm going to bet that your best shot is to find some better speakers, then save up for a better sub. When you get $600-700 CDN, you can find some good stuff. The new Energy and Mirage 10" subs are actually quite good. However, the ones you are looking at will just get you some heartache and a lighter wallet. If you want a lighter wallet, send money to me.

[uncooked]

I have the QS-10 in my bedroom, "about 12 x 12" and it suits my needs perfect, ive had it almost a year no problems. great bass in a smaller room where you arent pushing it to hard.

i got it for 150 canadian at future shop last boxing day. I dont have any complaints at all for the price. It can knock stuff off my walls at half volume. So it would be more then enough for you as well.

ive got some pics of where i have it, but there to big so i have to re d/l photo shop and resize them and im to lazy right now....... so i ll do it later tonight maybe

[Vardo]

If you want a very good budget subwoofer, then I would go with
the 10" 100 watt sub from "partsexpress". I'm in the process of
building a second home theater and all the components
(TV, speakers, receiver, etc) I'm getting are budget driven
but must have a certain degree of quality. My main home theater
cost me a bundle of money, hence the budget for this second
small (10' X 17') home theater.
The sub from partsexpress is a Dayton (part no. 300-632)
100 watt, 10" down firing sub w/a single port opening.
For $100 (plus shipping) this sub is a steal. It sounds great,
and I have compared it next to a HSU VTF2 (I have 2 VTF2's
in my main home theater) and I was pretty impressed. It didn't
have the slam or the output of a VTF2, but still sounded great
for the money (this sub should sell for $300+).
45 day money back guarantee, 5 yr warranty.

Something to consider...........Vardo

[Marty01]

I have the QS-10 in my bedroom, "about 12 x 12" and it suits my needs perfect, ive had it almost a year no problems. great bass in a smaller room where you arent pushing it to hard.

i got it for 150 canadian at future shop last boxing day. I dont have any complaints at all for the price. It can knock stuff off my walls at half volume. So it would be more then enough for you as well.

ive got some pics of where i have it, but there to big so i have to re d/l photo shop and resize them and im to lazy right now....... so i ll do it later tonight maybe


i see.. what else do you have for a system.. id like to know how our gear compares.. itl give me a good idea on how well i can blend it into my room/system and such..

thanks

[uncooked]

Its all quest in my room, i wanted a fairly cheap set up for music. thats why the cheap tv is there. Its rarely used.

quest qt-66 Fronts

quest qb5's for rears

quest qc5 centre

quest qs-10 subwoofer

the rears are mounted up by the ceiling in the back of the room above my bed.

[uncooked]

i moved the sub from beside my bed like how it is in one of the pictures to behind the desk front left as it is now. i get TONS of bass like that, its in a corner and its surrounded by big furniture.

I like the sub alot, doesnt go as low as some but for the 150 i paid i like it alot.

heres the rears, and the panny reciever i use very basic 100 x 5 dolby dts. and the quest stereo amp to the right which sounds awsome with the quest towers. i hook that up for stereo everyonce in awhile, and actually run the sub with it every so ofter using the high level ins.

[Stu-r]

Fluance 10" $235. A Canadian company. Very well built.