Paradigm's

[Mark4583]

Gona go listen to some Paradigm's seems like I can get a good deal on a set
Monitor 11's for $1100... a pair
Refrence 60's for 750 a pair
Looks like some decent price for these new at a athorized dealer
Any hidden reason I should stay away from these that makes them go cheaper than norm?
Thanks

[Jimmy C]

...for the Monitor 11s. A friend bought a pair for $850, maybe 3 years ago.

That's a fair price for the 60s... do you have your pricing reversed?

If so, one can get a possibly better stand-mount 2-way for the grand... you might give up some volume and/or weight, but a more coherent presentation.

The 60s should be more than the 11s...

[N. Abstentia]

Yeah those prices would have to be reversed.

And I would go with Studio 40's over either of them :)

[Cougar Guy]

I'd go Studio 40's and then add a decent sub at some point in time. The Studio's are much more refined than the Monitor's. The Monitor 11's will have more impact than the 60's but for a long term investment (as opposed to the wow factor while trying them out) I think you'll be much happier with the Studio's.

Good luck!

[RGA]

You say you're going to go listen to a set of speakers and that they might be a good deal - wait until after hearing them before you determine what is and isn't a good deal - and the best way to do that is to listen to other brands' similarly priced speakers. Plenty of $1000.00 well reviewed speakers that IMO don't cut the mustard. Some are very good some are about what I'd expect for the money.

Try similarly priced speakers from a lot of companies first to see what you think.

[Mark4583]

You say you're going to go listen to a set of speakers and that they might be a good deal - wait until after hearing them before you determine what is and isn't a good deal - and the best way to do that is to listen to other brands' similarly priced speakers. Plenty of $1000.00 well reviewed speakers that IMO don't cut the mustard. Some are very good some are about what I'd expect for the money.

Try similarly priced speakers from a lot of companies first to see what you think.
Going to hear those and some Definitive, Klipsch,Energy, Athena's and Polks, all about the same price range, so hopefully Il find some that I will like alot.

[RGA]

I would suggest you try the Energy C series as a similar offerring to the Paradigms. Energy is Canadian so I'm not sure if they sell at par in the US - presuming you're in the US.

The C9 was going here for about $1450.00 asking - my rule is to drop that at LEAST 10%. ~$1300-$1200.00Cdn for that speaker. Some Canadian speaker makers are hosing Americans charging at Par (or your government is with a duty) so that price SHOULD mean the speaker sells for about 20% less again in US funds.

This is a pretty good speaker for the money - so is the cheaper C7. It's got a bit of the sizzle I hate but not too much of the boom. Basically it sounds very much like a lot of speakers that look similar in cabinet shaope that cost about double the money. Ie; Similar sound half price - and they look nice too.

Klipsch can be a lot of fun depending what you listen to and depending on the model - never heard Def Tech I don't think - Athena - the FS1 I liked better than anything else Future Shop carried - yes even more than the Polks that cost about double. The FS1 has certain problems that the Polk's didn;t have but on the other hand the FS1 "sounded" better.

[kexodusc]

Some Canadian speaker makers are hosing Americans charging at Par (or your government is with a duty) so that price SHOULD mean the speaker sells for about 20% less again in US funds.


Actually, you'll find many, many Canadian manufacturers from all industry pretty much have to sell their products in the USA "at par", or at least very inconsistent with the currency rate...shipping costs, brokerage, and product support (ie: parts, distribution) become incredibly expensive because of the rediculous customs rules that still exist between the two countries. Both countries governments are making a killing, not off taxes and duties, but off the necessary administrative paper work that they force companies to do. (unless of course you use the two government owned Postal services, how convenient).

The only notable exception I can think of is ATI Technologies, who makes computer videocards. Though they outsource a lot of the process, but I bought my last video card in the US, cheaper after converting the dollar than I could in Canada...and this was when the Loonie was trading at 0.67 USD, not 0.84 like today.

Rather than say Canadian speaker manufacturers are hosing Americans, you should instead look at it as a home-land discount. Factor in the Canadian sales tax and they're pretty much even. If taxes were to disappear tomorrow, you could bet your left testicle that Paradigm, PSB, Energy, Axiom, etc, would raise their prices accordingly. Keep in mind, that in many provinces taxes on speakers are 14-18%...
Unless you live in Klein-country.

The question you should be asking is, are Canadian speaker manufacturers competitive? For the most part yes...though I'm not sure I'd recommend anyone drop $1000 - $1300 on the C-9's or Monitor 11's, regardless of "fair pricing".

Interesting side note, the new guy in Fixed Income here at our offices just came from the UK, where he said he paid about $2200 CDN (1000 pounds) for the Yamaha RX-V1400 receiver. Apparently his Arcam is way cheaper there though...which begs the question: "What's Yamaha putting in their British receivers that they can sell them for that price?"

[Mark4583]

Listened to the Polk Monitor 70's, Klipsch RF35's and the Energy C5, Not sure if the dealer had the Energys set up righ but they sounded like crap! Like they had a bad connection, Klipsch sounded pretty good and thePolks also, Polks seem to have little more Base but the Klipsch seemed to have more range, Since I was planning to add a secound set of speakers and a Sub later on, at this point I would go with the Klipsch but I still have a couple more to check out

[RGA]

Actually, you'll find many, many Canadian manufacturers from all industry pretty much have to sell their products in the USA "at par", or at least very inconsistent with the currency rate...shipping costs, brokerage, and product support (ie: parts, distribution) become incredibly expensive because of the rediculous customs rules that still exist between the two countries. Both countries governments are making a killing, not off taxes and duties, but off the necessary administrative paper work that they force companies to do. (unless of course you use the two government owned Postal services, how convenient).

The only notable exception I can think of is ATI Technologies, who makes computer videocards. Though they outsource a lot of the process, but I bought my last video card in the US, cheaper after converting the dollar than I could in Canada...and this was when the Loonie was trading at 0.67 USD, not 0.84 like today.

Rather than say Canadian speaker manufacturers are hosing Americans, you should instead look at it as a home-land discount. Factor in the Canadian sales tax and they're pretty much even. If taxes were to disappear tomorrow, you could bet your left testicle that Paradigm, PSB, Energy, Axiom, etc, would raise their prices accordingly. Keep in mind, that in many provinces taxes on speakers are 14-18%...
Unless you live in Klein-country.

The question you should be asking is, are Canadian speaker manufacturers competitive? For the most part yes...though I'm not sure I'd recommend anyone drop $1000 - $1300 on the C-9's or Monitor 11's, regardless of "fair pricing".

Interesting side note, the new guy in Fixed Income here at our offices just came from the UK, where he said he paid about $2200 CDN (1000 pounds) for the Yamaha RX-V1400 receiver. Apparently his Arcam is way cheaper there though...which begs the question: "What's Yamaha putting in their British receivers that they can sell them for that price?"

Well and the other issue is that most retail prices are crooked as a dog's hind leg. You charge what the market will bear and what you think will work at the price you're aiming for. Take a $300.00Cdn DM 302 and a $2300.00CDN 705 and you'll be hard pressed to justify in cost that kind of hike.

I'm looking at buying a Panasonic FZ20 camera - This lists for $599.00US but can be had for $499.00US. The Canadian list price is $899.00. Panasonic has not bothered to adjust for the dollar - they perhaps feel that this camera in this market(Canada) has people who will willingly open their pockets up for this unit. Canon recently dropped all ther Camera's a full hundred bucks - 1/3 price drop. Now does anyone seriously think that Canon or Future Shop etc are not making a pile of money? If the A75 is $299.00Cdn and you can be sure everyone is still making their 30% then what were they making when it cost the consumer $399.00? Of course this makes sense because you have to convince people that 2megapixel one you bought last year is a P.O.S. and next year the 3.2 is a P.O.S and then the GREAT 5.0 today in three years will be a P.O.S.

[RGA]

Mark

Klipsh is a good choice - some people either love or hate a lot of horn designs - I liked the newer Klipsh ref series but not to all tastes (what is?).

They are geenrally more dynamic and easier to drive than a lot of the competition - horns typically have a smaller sweetspot - but not as small as many seem to imply(suppose the way you position and where you sit will have an impact.

Another option to try is Athena Technologies. Sold at Future Shop is a downside but on the flip side they manage to sound pretty good in those poor rooms with receivers - at prices significanly lower than Polk you might be surprised at how they compare.

[Mark4583]

Havent heard the Athena's yet, Going to on my next day off, Best Buy carries them, the FS-1.
Didnt think the Klipsch had as much base as the Polks but more range, I plan on a Sub later on.
The Klipsch RF-35's go for $1000.00, havent done much pricing yet, might be able to order if the S&H dosnt bring it back up.
I was realy surprised how bad the Energy's C-5 sounded, they get good reviews, must have been the dealer not hooking it up right, there a TV dealer and they had Energy and Panasonic, for speakers.

[RGA]

Hey if you don;t like the Energy's you don't like them - they're pretty easy to drive and Rooms well most people's rooms should be good enough to yield good results if not best results. Energy is not free from boom and sizzle. I personally would not buy them. The reason I suggested the C9 is that I find it to be similar to the kind of sound you could pay for the Paradigm 100V3 - this is relative - the 100V3 costs more than $1000.00 more than the C9. I don;t like either speaker enough to say that I would want to own them long term.

This is the problem that reviewers have as well as me or anyone(we're all critics of sorts). Someone says theywant a great $50.00 speaker - if that;s all they can afford you try and find one for them - but what if in your opinion all $50.00 speakers SUCK??? Then you pick the best of a bad bunch and suggest that.

IMO and that's all it is an opinion, all the speakers I have personally heard that are slim line towers with multiple ~6inch woofers and 3-4 way design there is not a single one that I would want to own. But they glut the market, so I listen to them and try and figure out which is the least bad or the one that offers pretty much best bang for the dollar given the money. That is why I would probably lean to the monitor series over the studi series - when you factor in the price. I can pay for the monitor 9 or 11 under $1kCdn or pay almost 3 times that for the Studio 100 and get a more refined version of the same thing? No thanks If I pay 2.5 to 3 times the money I want a whole world of improvement and you don't get that IMO.

The Athena's have problems all speakers do - but I listened to the Polks and the Athena's and the Athena's were more alive and open sounding - the Polk's had less box noise and a smoother treble - but they also sounded rather lifeless and nasal and seemed to have less dynamic impact.

Really just a matter fo listening and listening and listening - no law says that whatever you buy now has to be your last speaker.

[Cougar Guy]

Mark 4583, have you auditioned the Paradigm Studio Reference speakers yet? I would take a wild guess and suggest that most people that have upgraded from the Monitor Series to the Reference Series (myself included) noticed a pretty significant jump in performance . . . well worth the additional cost IMHO.

Not sure why RGA brought up the Studio 100's . . . at $2,300 they didn't seem to be in your price range based on your original post. The MSRP on the Studio 40's and 60's ($1,200 and $1,600) are close enough to the MSRP on the Monitor 9's and 11's ($899 and $1,099) that I think you should at least listen to them. I'd take the Studio 40's over the Monitor 11's, especially since you seem to suggest that you plan on adding a sub at some point in time (which would also suggest to me that you may not benefit much by going to the 60's from the 40's).

For what it's worth, that the opinion of one person who has owned speakers from the Monitor and Reference line.

[RGA]

"Not sure why RGA brought up the Studio 100's . . . at $2,300 they didn't seem to be in your"

I brought it up because I was suggesting the Energy C9 at $1400.00 Cdn which IMO sounds no worse than the $2700.00Cdn 100V3. And the smaller Studio speakers have less bass and still cost more.

The price range seems to be around $1000.00US.

I'd buy used personally.