Hey Terence

[MindGoneHaywire]

You're the moderator on this board? That's how you respond to a thread as controversial as Barry's was, by locking it? Gee, what power you have. Congratulations. What, you were afraid of someone changing yr mind or something?

For Pete's sakes, I think that people would have no problem respecting yr decision, in spite of Barry's POV, like it or hate it. But you had to LOCK THE THREAD? Are you KIDDING?

I'm sorry, I don't see what would've been so difficult about--for instance--suggesting a cross-post with a link, to draw Rave Reccers over to the films board--you still with me? I can't imagine anyone would've had a problem with this. Troy could've put his post up & spent an additional 30 seconds putting a new post up here with a link, and that way Barry could've found the post himself--as could we all--and then perhaps found the Films board worthy of repeat visits. You still with me? Instead, we get yr narrow POV--okay, fine, whatever. I'm still with you. But you lock the thread?

Check, please.

Okay, fine, whatever. It's yr board, not mine, not anybody else's, either. But that's no way to attract new blood so far as I can see. In fact, it looks like some straight-up bullsh*t.

Thoughts?

[Hyfi]

Just one more good reason to post at AA. Aye? I have only seen about 5-10 newbie posts in in recent weeks so it has nothing to do with them. Just someone abusing power as usuall.

[ForeverAutumn]

I tried to reply to Dean Martin's post to thank him for the invite to the Film Forum and let him know that his point was well taken and that my post was not meant to be a criticism of his (and, BTW, the reply to post option was still there). Only to find out that we aren't allowed to carry on this discussion anymore!!! :mad:

I feel like I'm being treated like a child here. Thank goodness Terrence wasn't around for our recent discussions about the US election. Imagine how quickly that would have been shut down. Not only off-topic, but allowing us to express our own controversial opinions. Oh my, two taboos in one thread!

I understand and appreciate the concern about the OT threads now, if there's a different forum to post them on. I'm not sure that I agree, but I, at least, understand the issues. And we are provided with a link to get to the post easily. (Although I like the idea of being able to post on another forum and automatically link it here). But making a unilateral decision to close a thread is another story altogether. What's next? Is this thread about to be deleted?

Looks to me like someone's abusing his authority.

[Troy]

What really jerks my chain is he closed it before I could post to it. The whole thing was about one of MY posts, afterall!

1. I posted the Incredibles thread here because many of the people that frequent this board don't go there.

2. Yeah, you guys are my water cooler buddies. I was so jazzed about the movie I wanted to share it with you.

3. The fact that the thread here got twice as many responses as the one at the movies board should tell you something about why I was right to post it here too.

4. I DID mention the soundtrack to the film in my original post. It's one of my favorite things about the movie.

This board is very amenable to OT discussion. I like that and don't see it changing. The fact that it was about a movie when there is a movie board for that though . . . I can see the rub there. I agree with Dino about the film forum drying up and blowing away if we start talking movies at rave recs. I won't do it again.

Terence, combining the 2 threads and leaving links on both boards is fine with me. I don't really see why so many are so up in arms over that.

Closing the discussion thread about it though . . . wrong-o! Perhaps you have problems with things blowing up in threads like that on other boards here, but it wouldn't happen on Rave Recs. We're a pretty easy going bunch. Closing the door to discussion is how things get screwed up in life.

[MindGoneHaywire]

It wasn't like it blew up! Looked like a mostly reasonable exchange of ideas to me. I didn't detect grave anger in that thread, just irritation. Locking that thread--which smacks of 'last resort' to me--what a move. Can't figure out if it's grounded more in immaturity or insecurity. Or perhaps a combination of both.

Maybe I shouldn't be so harsh. Perhaps Terrence is only working off past experience elsewhere, or perhaps he doesn't have a lot of experience sitting in the mod's chair. Which I'm sure is not always an easy place to be, and this or that action is always going to irritate somebody. But I'm not dowloading any Alexa toolbars (as the all-powerful Moderators would have us do), and I'm not going to be shy about stating my opinion that this was a wrongheaded, insulting move.

Nonsense like this affirms for me that I did the right thing in downloading a Firefox extension called "AdBlock" and have used it extensively on this site.

[dean_martin]

I tried to reply to Dean Martin's post to thank him for the invite to the Film Forum and let him know that his point was well taken and that my post was not meant to be a criticism of his (and, BTW, the reply to post option was still there). Only to find out that we aren't allowed to carry on this discussion anymore!!! :mad:



Thanks, FA. I didn't mean to sound critical of Troy posting in both places (what I meant in my original post was it should have been satisfactory to the moderator that Troy did post in fave films even if he posted again in rave recs). I'm glad we finally got to hear from Troy. I'm sure he never expected his welcomed comments on a movie to cause a big bruhaha.

BTW, I'm going to try to increase my participation in Rave Recs because I'm so far behind on new music. I don't even know what a "Franz Ferdinand" is.

[Davey]

BTW, I'm going to try to increase my participation in Rave Recs because I'm so far behind on new music. I don't even know what a "Franz Ferdinand" is.
Hey, good idea! That Franz Ferdinand CD is a lot of fun - although you will find some around here that think it's just a bunch of mindless, derivative, fruity dribble. But not me! And I just saw that Tuesday they're releasing a special edition digipak with a bonus CD containg 5 extra songs. Mostly b-sides. So if you do wanna make the plunge, that's the one to get. Kind of mainstream, but a good entry point. Now if I can just find some way to finagle a copy of that second disc for myself....just kidding, I've actually been holding out for this since I've been listening for months to a copyright infringing CD-R :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This special, limited edition package features a 5 panel digipak and contains a bonus disc featuring the newly recorded version of "This Fire" along with 4 B-sides and rare tracks. "Van Tango" and "Shopping for Blood," which have become fan favorites as staples in the band's live set, make this special edition with bonus disc a must have!

This album will be available beginning November 23. Orders placed on this website by November 17 will be shipped for a scheduled delivery of on or around November 23.

TRACKLISTING
DISC 1:
1. Jacqueline
2. Tell Her Tonight
3. Take Me Out
4. The Dark of The Matinee
5. Auf Achse
6. Cheating On You
7. This Fire
8. Darts of Pleasure
9. Michael
10. Come On Home
11. 40'

DISC 2:
1. This Fffire
2. Van Tango
3. Shopping For Blood
4. All For You, Sophia
5. Words So Leisured

[mad rhetorik]

.... although you will find some around here that think it's just a bunch of mindless, derivative, <b>fruity dribble</b>.

Wonder where you got that phrase from.... ; P

[Davey]

Wonder where you got that phrase from.... ; P
Hehehe, it is a good one, whether talking about something Fiery or something Franzy. Hey, notice they are both FF's? Not much gets by my keen eye ;)

[BarryL]

You're the moderator on this board? That's how you respond to a thread as controversial as Barry's was, by locking it? What, you were afraid of someone changing yr mind or something?

In fact, it looks like some straight-up bullsh*t.

Thoughts?


Just for the record (Rush, 2112), my final post on the matter, which was labelled as such, now appears to be missing. I'm pretty sure I posted it on the Movie board, given the split conversation Terrance and I were having. I can assure you that there was no swearing or rudeness, and that it was in fact concilliatory. In Terrance's post there, he assures us that he wasn't going to get heavy handed with posters of off-topic posts. That's not his style, he said (I'm assuming here that Terrance is a he, although on the internet there is no assurance that that is the case).

I recall that my final line was that this whole affair probably indicates that I have a problem with authority. I guess my problem has been confirmed. In the overall scheme of the big world, this is a mighty small affair. But I can't help but reflect that it is rather sad.

I suppose this too will be removed or locked. My bet is for removed, and some kind of nasty e-mail to me. Or at least a note to my file.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

You're the moderator on this board? That's how you respond to a thread as controversial as Barry's was, by locking it? Gee, what power you have. Congratulations. What, you were afraid of someone changing yr mind or something?

I locked it because I think some of the comments were bordering on out of control. Tentoez response is the perfect example. Does anyone LIKED to be called names? I don't.


For Pete's sakes, I think that people would have no problem respecting yr decision, in spite of Barry's POV, like it or hate it. But you had to LOCK THE THREAD? Are you KIDDING?

Locking threads is something that I don't like to do. I didn't mind the opposition(something I still don't understand to this day), but what I saw there was some very open hostility to my moving the thread to its proper place. The kinds of comments that were being levied at me were bordering on pretty hostile. Unnecessary! In an organized environment everything has its place, and every place has it thing. I do not see why everyone was so angry at moving a topic to its proper place.


I'm sorry, I don't see what would've been so difficult about--for instance--suggesting a cross-post with a link, to draw Rave Reccers over to the films board--you still with me? I can't imagine anyone would've had a problem with this. Troy could've put his post up & spent an additional 30 seconds putting a new post up here with a link, and that way Barry could've found the post himself--as could we all--and then perhaps found the Films board worthy of repeat visits. You still with me? Instead, we get yr narrow POV--okay, fine, whatever. I'm still with you. But you lock the thread?

I am sorry, I cannot see why the post has to be done it two places. Why post a movie review in the rav rec forum, when there is a proper place for it in the fav movie forum? Why is it so difficult to take a couple of clicks and visit the favorite film forum for a review? Why does someone have to spend all that time cross linking and making things complicated, when all anyone has to do is post in the proper foum, and folks visit that forum? If a troll was interferring with the function of the board, you guys would want me to deal with it. Its my job, but when a topic is out of its place, and I deal with it, you guys are angry. But that is also my job. All I am trying to do is the job assigned to me.


Check, please.

Okay, fine, whatever. It's yr board, not mine, not anybody else's, either. But that's no way to attract new blood so far as I can see. In fact, it looks like some straight-up bullsh*t.

Thoughts?

I am at a loss as to why everyone is so angry over moving a topic to its proper place. I wasn't trying to hurt anyone, not trying to censor anyone, and not trying to be a dictator, just do what is assigned to me. It takes two clicks to get from this forum to another, why is this so difficult to do? This smacks of laziness, and I think it is unfair to be critisized for this. Everyone thinks that being a moderator makes you a dictator. But that is far from truth. A good moderator remains transparent until something needs to be fixed. I have done that in this forum until a off topic post appeared. I do not censor opinions, threaten people, push my opinion on anyone, or use my responsibilities to control what is said. So I do not know why I am taking so much heat for just plain doing my job. I had no negative intent at all, I am just doing what is asked of me. I moved the OT post, and left instruction where to find it, what more can you ask? If I did something controversial, I could understand the heat, but I am doing what is right and asked of me, and I do not think I deserve the comments I am getting for doing that.
I am openly invititng everyone to visit the other forums. It takes just two clicks(so I do not understant why someone would say they don't have time to do it) and about 3 seconds(depending on your connection) to get there. Open up your sense of community, there is much information to be found everywhere. And please try and temper your hostile comments, this is a difficult and thankless job(as illustrated here) and I didn't see anyone breaking the doors down to take this position. Remember what it was like when there were no moderators.


I suppose this too will be removed or locked. My bet is for removed, and some kind of nasty e-mail to me. Or at least a note to my file.

There is no chance of this happening. If it did, I would complain and howl like a wolf. I didn't take your comments negatively, and sense no problem with authority. Its all good!

[MindGoneHaywire]

I think what you're not getting here is that we are adults, I think, most of us anyway, and locking a thread is akin to treating people like children. I'm sorry, I didn't think that anything that Tentoze said came close to reaching the level of hostility you're apparently assigning it. And I would also point out that if you take a look at his posts, I believe that you'll find that he's as reasoned & polite a poster, in a general sense, as you'll find on this or any other board. If you're offended because he called you a hall monitor, then yr skin is definitely not thick enough for this job. Unless there was some other thread that I'm missing...but somehow I doubt it.

I really don't have to tell you that a lot of people post from work or are otherwise busy & don't take the time to go to another forum they might find interesting, do I? I don't have to tell you that people become conditioned to visiting one part of a site & not the entire site, do I? I'm sure I'm not alone in bookmarking this page & only infrequently visiting the other boards on this site. I've spent some time on the films board in the past. It's not my primary area of interest. Troy thought that what he had to say about this picture was worth sharing with this community. You don't even like the idea that he should put up a post here with a link to his post on the other board? That's nuts. Is it 'lazy' to not visit the other boards of our own volition? Perhaps. But it's not unethical or illegal or anything. And I tell you what, it was one thing two boards ago when the software was nice & quick. Some people are still on dialup, and this is easily the slowest-loading site I still visit on a regular basis. And that's even with Adblock, broadband, and pop-ups blocked. So it's all fine & well to suggest that someone's being lazy if they don't just automatically visit the films board, but some people like to discuss music more than films & it's a bit odd to chastise them for trying to bring a new topic--and perhaps a new board--to their attention.

You say it's yr 'job' to relocate off-topic posts, but in applying this heavy-handed manner, I believe you lose sight of the big picture, which says that without traffic there's no board to moderate. I can't imagine that you could possibly agree that locking a thread, which I'm gently suggesting to you was unnecessary in this case, is going to contribute towards the growth of the community of posters on this board, and, it would follow, this site in general. You ask us to remember what it was like when there was no moderator, and I do; perhaps you don't. That troll problem that existed on the General board was not a problem here. Some people did have a problem with a particular poster who was banned, but that situation doesn't exactly apply if you're trying to get us to 'remember' how bad it was. This board somehow flew under the radar of that much larger troll problem that existed. Which some on this board may not have even known about if they didn't visit the General board. I did, occasionally. It was HORRIBLE. Not so here, aside from the people who felt personally attacked by the now-banned poster.

Enough has been said about this nonsense. If you choose to disagree with my points, that is yr right. But I'll tell you right now that to suggest that there shouldn't even be a post with a link to a post on another board sounds absolutely crazy to me. People are ingrained in their habits & you're not going to break them; pulling garbage like this will only drive them away.

[tentoze]

"I locked it because I think some of the comments were bordering on out of control. Tentoez response is the perfect example."

Sir Terrence:

If you insist on repeatedly holding me up as the most egregious participant in this heinous mutiny, this dire threat to global order and harmony, please be advised that my moniker is spelled Tentoze. I certainly wouldn't want anyone reading your comments to confuse me with any other conspirator.

(NP: A really good ceedee by Ray Lamontagne called Trouble)

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

What really jerks my chain is he closed it before I could post to it. The whole thing was about one of MY posts, afterall!

Troy, I had no idea you wanted to respond again. But I sensed based on the comments I was getting, that this was going to spiral out of control really fast, I didn't want to see that happen.


1. I posted the Incredibles thread here because many of the people that frequent this board don't go there.

But they should go there, because that is where movie reviews belong.


2. Yeah, you guys are my water cooler buddies. I was so jazzed about the movie I wanted to share it with you.

I think that is cool, but there is another way to handle this. Tell them you are going to see the movie, and you will post the review in the Favorite films section.


3. The fact that the thread here got twice as many responses as the one at the movies board should tell you something about why I was right to post it here too.

It just tells that everyone within the rav rec community stays in that community only. I am openly inviting them to visit the other sections as well.


4. I DID mention the soundtrack to the film in my original post. It's one of my favorite things about the movie.

This board is very amenable to OT discussion. I like that and don't see it changing. The fact that it was about a movie when there is a movie board for that though . . . I can see the rub there. I agree with Dino about the film forum drying up and blowing away if we start talking movies at rave recs. I won't do it again.

Troy, I thank you very much for this bit of rational thinking.


Terence, combining the 2 threads and leaving links on both boards is fine with me. I don't really see why so many are so up in arms over that.

I don't either, but these are your pals, and this kind of loyalty amoung friends is very commendable indeed!


Closing the discussion thread about it though . . . wrong-o! Perhaps you have problems with things blowing up in threads like that on other boards here, but it wouldn't happen on Rave Recs. We're a pretty easy going bunch. Closing the door to discussion is how things get screwed up in life.

Well, that is one way of looking at it. However, we had one poster calling me anal, another saying "In case I haven't made my position clear, this action was nothing more than meddling by a hall monitor". Being called a meddling hall monitor is extremely insulting as calling a security guard a "rent a cop". I do not think I deserved that, nor do I think it is relevant to the issue. So whether it was wrong, has to be balanced by what was taking place at the time. It is not always WRONG to close a thread. Especially when it was definately taking a turn for the worst. I do not think any of you would take this kind of abused, each one of you need to just put yourself in my position for one moment before you strike out so negatively. This job is not always easy.

[Finch Platte]

I don't look at the movie forum, and probably never will.

But I do like reading about other things on RR besides music. These folks in here are my friends (until I send them one of my comps), and I enjoy hearing what they have to say about different subjects.

I check out other boards more these days because they are more diverse. If you choke this one, I guarantee you won't be needed to moderate this place, simply 'cause it won't be here.

Fynhc Plate

[BarryL]

I locked it because I think some of the comments were bordering on out of control. Tentoez response is the perfect example. Does anyone LIKED to be called names? I don't.

There is no chance of this happening. If it did, I would complain and howl like a wolf. I didn't take your comments negatively, and sense no problem with authority. Its all good!


The thread was locked only because it was critical of you. There have been lots of heated discussions on this board and no threads were locked. And now cognitive dissonance has crept in and you're defending the irrational. You have to maintain law and order, or the whole place will go to hell? Oh, please. Spare us.

And what happened to my post? Are you saying that you didn't remove it? It was very conciliatory and I kept my sarcasm to the absolute minimal.

I know that you think you know best about how everybody should act, but here's my advice to you: let people post and enjoy themselves. Is it so bad if one or two threads get posted "in the wrong place"? (Like this is the Library of Congress or something.) I think there's a little button that allows us to register complaints. Until the bell rings, why not assume that everything is going to plan. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of heat and discussion about right and wrong, good and bad, prudent and imprudent. At least not amongst the regular posters on this board.

Given excellent explanations of why people are peeved of with your actions by a number of posters, perhaps you should re-read them, and then stop assuming that everyone else is so irrational and your view of how things will be after you have your way with everybody is the only right way to go. This isn't that difficult. Re-Imagine, as Tom Peters implores in his latest book. The world is messy. Learn to live with it. Your customers/users don't seem to have a problem with it, so why are you arguing with them that they are wrong and you are right.

[BarryL]

Troy Sure Knows His Movies!


Thanks for that Incredibles post, Troy. I really look forward to seeing that movie. I think my kids would also love it. They like heros and despise villians as much as I do (I guess they take after their ol' dad, huh?).

Who'd've'ever thought that you could find out such neat stuff on a bulletin board about music? Man, the Internet is a wonderful thing isn't it? I'll bet you when the dust settles, it'll actually be life changing for a lot of people.

You can't stop progress! It's almost like chaos to some, but, embrace it, I say. Keep up the good work, Troy. The time you take to enlighten your Rave Rec buddies is appreciated.

How's the soundtrack? Is it original music? Orchestra or keyboards? Vocals or instrumental? With topping or not?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I think what you're not getting here is that we are adults, I think, most of us anyway, and locking a thread is akin to treating people like children. I'm sorry, I didn't think that anything that Tentoze said came close to reaching the level of hostility you're apparently assigning it. And I would also point out that if you take a look at his posts, I believe that you'll find that he's as reasoned & polite a poster, in a general sense, as you'll find on this or any other board. If you're offended because he called you a hall monitor, then yr skin is definitely not thick enough for this job. Unless there was some other thread that I'm missing...but somehow I doubt it.

I am sorry, but calling somebody a hall monitor is a personal attack regardless of how thick my skin is. I do not mind that he said this, what I was bothered by the personal attack period. This is not allowed on this forum , or we will be back to where we started from. If I called you a ______, I am sure that you would not like it at all. So to say that I should just stand here and take it just because I an a moderator is patently unfair. If we are adults like you suggest, then it should be no problem following the rules like adults do. Adults do not name call, and attack people with personal insults when they are inconvienced, or asked to follow some simple rules.


I really don't have to tell you that a lot of people post from work or are otherwise busy & don't take the time to go to another forum they might find interesting, do I?

I moderate from work, so I do not see where your time usage is more important than mine. If I take my time to keep these forums free of trolls and disorganization, then you guys can be responsible enough to post reviews in their proper place. I think that is fair.



I don't have to tell you that people become conditioned to visiting one part of a site & not the entire site, do I?

So just because you are conditioned to do this, does it make it right?. Is it fair to ALL of audioreview if this forum has its own set of rules, does what it wants to do, and does not like moderators to meddle in their own personal community. Remember, this forum is part of a larger community with rules governing this large community. This forum is not free from the rules that govern this larger community, or each community will have anarchy. That is why rules apply to all forums equally. The hometheater forum doesn't have reviews in it, even though many watched nothing but movies, so why should this forum have it?


I'm sure I'm not alone in bookmarking this page & only infrequently visiting the other boards on this site. I've spent some time on the films board in the past. It's not my primary area of interest. Troy thought that what he had to say about this picture was worth sharing with this community. You don't even like the idea that he should put up a post here with a link to his post on the other board? That's nuts.

It is called double posting, and no site administrator likes to see this. Go to hometheaterforum and see if you can do this, it won't be allow there. Go to any other site and see if it is allow. You will find it is not. For anyone who has visited any other forum on the internet, you will find it is a common and widespread practice to combine double postings, and if they are off topic, moved to the proper area.


Is it 'lazy' to not visit the other boards of our own volition? Perhaps. But it's not unethical or illegal or anything.

No one said it is illegal, but it does not lend itself to organization(and easier for newbies) if you have people posting topics all over the place. If this was YOUR board to run, would you want it that way?



And I tell you what, it was one thing two boards ago when the software was nice & quick. Some people are still on dialup, and this is easily the slowest-loading site I still visit on a regular basis. And that's even with Adblock, broadband, and pop-ups blocked. So it's all fine & well to suggest that someone's being lazy if they don't just automatically visit the films board, but some people like to discuss music more than films & it's a bit odd to chastise them for trying to bring a new topic--and perhaps a new board--to their attention.

If you like to discuss music more than films, fine. But if you are going to discuss films, why is it so difficult to make two clicks and go to the appropriate forum? I must admit I do not understand the plight of dial ups, I use broadband, and even with pop ups(I never see) I am on this site extremely fast. But this is not an excuse for anarchy, and to cancel all rules regarding posting in the proper place.


You say it's yr 'job' to relocate off-topic posts, but in applying this heavy-handed manner, I believe you lose sight of the big picture, which says that without traffic there's no board to moderate

Can someone explain to me how moving a post to its proper place heavy handed??????
I think because you stay in this forum only, you could be losing sight of the bigger picture yourself. So you have forums labeled hometheater, fav films, rave rec, digital, analog etc, but you have post from these forums all over the board. No one can find anything, or follow a thread, its disorganized and confusing, and people leave because everything is too hard to follow. That is the result of anarchy, and why I do not understand why you have lost sight of this, and why it is not beneficial to EVERYONE.


. I can't imagine that you could possibly agree that locking a thread, which I'm gently suggesting to you was unnecessary in this case, is going to contribute towards the growth of the community of posters on this board, and, it would follow, this site in general.

It is easy for you to overlook the tone that the thread was taking. You were'nt under attack, or called any names. But when the tone takes that negative of a direction, no one is satisfied. I lock that topic because it was irrelevant to the subject at hand, and could have easily spiralled into a name calling, finger pointing situation. It could have EASILY gone there. I don't like to do that, but when the situation calls for it, I will not flinch one bit doing so. I find it ironic that you can so easily overlook the negative tone of the thread. Remember, I am human just like you, and do not appreciate name calling. Thick skin or not.


You ask us to remember what it was like when there was no moderator, and I do; perhaps you don't.

I have been posting to this site since two months after it opened. So it is a faulty assumption to make this kind of comment in light of that. I remember when there was no moderator, this board was a mess, disorganized, polarized, ineffecient, too many trolls, threads of incredible lengths of name calling(that started so innocently and spiralled) persistant personal attacks, and the list goes on.


That troll problem that existed on the General board was not a problem here. Some people did have a problem with a particular poster who was banned, but that situation doesn't exactly apply if you're trying to get us to 'remember' how bad it was.

Any problem on any forum is a problem for everyone that visits audioreview. Unfortunately the moderators do not have the luxury of thinking in a compartmentilzed fashion as you do. Fires spread, and the problem that exist on the general board, also existed in the cable forum, hometheater forums, the digital forum, and the analog forum. As I state again, this forum is part of a group of forums that make up audioreview. One bad apple CAN spoil the whole bunch.



This board somehow flew under the radar of that much larger troll problem that existed. Which some on this board may not have even known about if they didn't visit the General board. I did, occasionally. It was HORRIBLE. Not so here, aside from the people who felt personally attacked by the now-banned poster.

Well, the hometheater forum had a problem, it was miserable for them as I was there. The cable forum had a problem with persitant attacks on certain individuals who eventially left. That was not good for audioreview. The digital forum also had a HUGE problem(that started as innocently as the personal attacks I have had to endure for this thread), and several poster were banned, and several more left. Not good for audioreview. Because one problem was allowed to exist in the general forum, it spread to some of the other forums. Since I visit all of those forums, I saw it all first hand. Had a moderator just closed the offending threads, and delt with the problem when it first cropped up, it would not have gone out of control to the lengths it did. Once again, all of this came as innocently as the comments I have had to endure here, hence why the thread was closed. I do not believe in putting out forest fires, when I can prevent them in the first place.


Enough has been said about this nonsense. If you choose to disagree with my points, that is yr right. But I'll tell you right now that to suggest that there shouldn't even be a post with a link to a post on another board sounds absolutely crazy to me. People are ingrained in their habits & you're not going to break them; pulling garbage like this will only drive them away.

I think it is irresponsible to suggest that ingrained habits(which are wrong in this case) are okay, and if we(the moderators) try and deal with them, we will just chase people away. If peoples ingrained habits make them break the rules, then they should change the ingrained habit, not leave. Movie reviews are not allowed, and are not posted in any other forum. Why does this forum suggest preferential treatment? I have moved off topic items from the other boards, and none of them have complained to this degree at all. They all recognized it was off topic, and there was a proper place for it. It is unfair to the other forums(which people call their home, and bookmark like you do) to have their off topic posts moved(with little or no complaint I might add) and this one is allowed to operate autonomously and without moderation. Isn't the rave recording forum a part of a larger website?. We are not asked to moderate all forums EXCEPT the rave recording forum. We were asked to moderate all forums period. The only thing that I am asking is that the rules regarding posting be followed. Is that too much to ask?

[ForeverAutumn]

Well, that is one way of looking at it. However, we had one poster calling me anal, another saying "In case I haven't made my position clear, this action was nothing more than meddling by a hall monitor". Being called a meddling hall monitor is extremely insulting as calling a security guard a "rent a cop". I do not think I deserved that, nor do I think it is relevant to the issue. So whether it was wrong, has to be balanced by what was taking place at the time. It is not always WRONG to close a thread. Especially when it was definately taking a turn for the worst. I do not think any of you would take this kind of abused, each one of you need to just put yourself in my position for one moment before you strike out so negatively. This job is not always easy.

Mr. Terrible,
I don't doubt that your job is not always easy. And I think that most of us now understand your point and why you moved the threads. We may not like it, but an explanation was given and that's fine. You have a job to do and a board to run. I appreciate the existence of this board and being able to come here to discuss many subjects, not just music.

Perhaps some people here did get out of line and some things were said in anger, that should not have been said. You're right. No-one likes to be called names. If I am one of those people who offended you, I apologize. In the past, when I was the victim of comments that I felt unappropriate, I reported the post and it was removed. You too, have the same right. Absolutely!

However, as the Moderator, you may find yourself in a conflict of interest. Removing (or closing) a post that you feel is offensive to you also shuts the door on a discussion that the rest of us felt needed to be had (and given the discussion in this thread didn't solve a thing, did it?). You did what you had to do, but in the process you upset a lot of people. An explanation of why the post was closed, prior to closing it would have avoided this whole issue. Simply saying, that's the end of this discussion, only makes us feel like children being reprimanded. You ask us to put ourselves in your shoes, well I ask you to do the same for us.

I don't know how long you've been around this Forum. But you'll find that we are a pretty easy-going bunch. Many friendships have been formed here and we always welcome new people. We like it here. There are good reasons that we come here. You would do well to not mess with that. I don't mean that as a threat, just some good-natured advice along the lines of "don't fix what ain't broke".

I do appreciate the job that the moderators here do. But I think that it's equally important, no...make that more important that the moderators appreciate the customer too.

[MindGoneHaywire]

Looks to me like you have issues that need to be dealt with, sir. I can say, without hesitation, that you are the least qualified moderator I have seen. Most of us have dealt with far worse attacks in what I would consider to be a far more reasonable or sensible manner. If you actually object to someone posting in one forum, then putting up a post in another that simply says 'I put up a post in this other forum, why not take a look, that's a good forum, too, here's a link,' as you have indicated here...and that's NOT a 'double posting'...then my days coming to this board are over. Goodbye.

[Hyfi]

After all this bru-ha-ha, why hasn't the book review just a few threads down, been moved? Not that I want to see it moved, just wondering. I laughed out loud the other night when I clicked on that post for the first time(after searching for it) only to find it was a book review. I had just purchased the disk Pink Floyd - A Saucerful of Keys and was anxious to post about it.

Oh, and about us few unemployed losers using dialup, I only come to this forum and occasionally the PC forum, since it's about 30-45 seconds a click.I also still only read about one third of the posts ever since the code change hit a perfectly fine board.

Please lock this thread so we can move on to our next awaiting dilema!

Hyfi

[ForeverAutumn]

I moderate from work, so I do not see where your time usage is more important than mine. If I take my time to keep these forums free of trolls and disorganization, then you guys can be responsible enough to post reviews in their proper place. I think that is fair.

Yadda, yadda, yadda.....

Alright, I tried to be nice but the discussions continued on as I was preparing my previous post.

When did it become part of the moderator's job to argue with the customers? If you were my employee you'd be fired.

If you were my paid employee I would fire you for moderating a web site on my dime.

If you were my volunteer moderator I would fire you for chasing away my customers.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The thread was locked only because it was critical of you. There have been lots of heated discussions on this board and no threads were locked. And now cognitive dissonance has crept in and you're defending the irrational. You have to maintain law and order, or the whole place will go to hell? Oh, please. Spare us.

As you can see Barry, I am taking alot heat on here, I have neither locked, nor closed this thread. It is okay to be critical with me, but it doesn't really change the fact that movie reviews belong in the favorite movie section. It is just that simple, and not irrational at all. Maybe there was alot of heated discussions on this board, if there were no personal attacks, or off topic stuff, it would have been left alone. Remember, you have only had moderators for about three months. Barry, at one time this place was hell.


And what happened to my post? Are you saying that you didn't remove it? It was very conciliatory and I kept my sarcasm to the absolute minimal.

I haven't removed any posts, a neither has any other moderator. They are all there, and there is no record of any post removed.


I know that you think you know best about how everybody should act, but here's my advice to you: let people post and enjoy themselves. Is it so bad if one or two threads get posted "in the wrong place"? (Like this is the Library of Congress or something.) I think there's a little button that allows us to register complaints.

I have stated my position as moderator in the other posts. This board is not free from moderation. It is part of a website at large, that is moderated by several moderators. I am at a loss at understand why all of the other boards don't complain about moderation, but this one does. The same things happen there that happen here.



Until the bell rings, why not assume that everything is going to plan. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of heat and discussion about right and wrong, good and bad, prudent and imprudent. At least not amongst the regular posters on this board.

Yes, but do you have any idea how a newbie would feel walking into all of these flying bullets. When someone posts off topic, everything is not going to plan amoung site administrators. He would like the place organized and orderly, or I wouldn't have moved the post. This website has rules, and they apply to ALL of the forums in it.


Given excellent explanations of why people are peeved of with your actions by a number of posters, perhaps you should re-read them, and then stop assuming that everyone else is so irrational and your view of how things will be after you have your way with everybody is the only right way to go.

I have read all of them. However, the rules as explain to me by the site administrator are clear. No personal attacks(that has already been violated with no response by me), keep things clean, organized(as I tried to do here), and don't be hackled by dissent(as I am not)


This isn't that difficult. Re-Imagine, as Tom Peters implores in his latest book. The world is messy. Learn to live with it. Your customers/users don't seem to have a problem with it, so why are you arguing with them that they are wrong and you are right.

Tom Peters book is irrelevant in this issue, because the site administrators want different things than Tom Peters does. I am at a loss as to why you were so cool earlier, and so angry now. I didn't, and no other moderator has moved, deleted, or closed anything. I did not delete the thread where you guys basically barbeque'd me, I haven't closed or deleted a thing here(where you guys are hammering me again). Why the 180 degree turn?

[nobody]

Adults do not name call, and attack people with personal insults when they are inconvienced, or asked to follow some simple rules.


Don't know many adults do you?

Contrary to popular belief, and what you get told by your parents, adults basically act the same as little kids, except they get tired faster and are more likely to carry weapons and have a bit more money.

Oh yeah, both sides need to lighten up. Troy's post was no big deal. Terrence, sorry but it kinda sounds like Breakfast Club to me ...If he gets up...we'll all get up...it'll be anarchy! Sometimes anal isn't an insult, it's just a description.

Moving the thread was no big deal either. You could still find it from the forum anyway. And, he may *****, but I don't see anyone getting banned from here just for posting off topic anyway, so it's not like anything really changes in the end.

<i>...scratching my head right now, trying to figure out why I even entered this thread rather than just enjoying the read...</i>

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Alright, I tried to be nice but the discussions continued on as I was preparing my previous post.

I appreciated that.


When did it become part of the moderator's job to argue with the customers? If you were my employee you'd be fired.

I am sorry you feel that way. Can a customer come into any store and violate store policy. I do not think they can. If I didn't follow the rules my employer gave me, I would be fired.


If you were my paid employee I would fire you for moderating a web site on my dime.

In this case it would be pretty difficult to fire yourself.


If you were my volunteer moderator I would fire you for chasing away my customers.

If I were a moderator who couldn't enforced the rules given to me, I would be fired. If the customers come to my store, move the inventory around, disrupted my business, and do exactly what they please in my store, I would sell no goods, and the store would close. Rules are everywhere, and without them, there is no order.

[BarryL]

I posted a response to your comments to me on the Movie board on Friday before I left work, but it's not there. Given that you locked the thread, I assumed that you also deleter my post. It's not there.

I'm not angry. I find this all senseless, sad, and yet somewhat amusing that you continue to argue with your customers. You should have stated your position, posted the rules that refer to, and then left everyone alone. But for some reason you want to convince us that you are doing the right thing. Many people disagree with you. Now the issue isn't about posting movies anymore. So some people disagree. Big deal. Everyone that posted said that it's your domain, you can do it if you want to. I, for one, think that it's narrow-minded. You disagree, and are following AudioReview's policy for moderators. That's cool. Do your work. But don't try to defend it by insulting everyone you don't agree with and telling them that they just aren't as enlightened about these matters as you are (what if you were moderator? etc.).

Now you've gone beyond explaining your position, which is where you should have stopped. Some people explained that they disagree with your decision, which you wrongly took as personal attacks and insults. I've seen personal attacks on this board, so have you, and you know it's a big stretch to consider any comments on these threads to be of the degree to be considered personal attacks. For some reason you think you have to convince each dissenter that you are right and that they are wrong. I'm sure your intentions are good, but the reasons you provide (I'm just following orders, there would be chaos, it wouldn't be fair to EVERYBODY, etc.) are arbitary rationalizations given the context of this board. You've let this whole thing get way out of control by arguing with your customers and demonstrating poor Internet judgment. Consider that a performance appraisal by a customer, and not a personal attack.



In my opinion, you have been engaged willfully in insulting the customers by calling people juvenile and narrow-minded. Hence MindGoneHaywire's comments about your abilities as a moderator. The most disruptive person on this site for the past few days has been YOU. You should be making yourself invisible, instead of becoming the main topic of conversation.

I'm not angry, and my posts aren't meant to convey anger. I am disappointed. The big problem with written posts is that you can't infer the intended tone of the writer. If you're reading anger, maybe that's how you would like to hear it. I'll have to insert more smiley faces from now on! (Did it work? I don't know how to use those icons at the bottom of the page).

[ericl]

Whoa, this has gotten pretty heated! Lets take a step back for minute.

Terrence isn't trying to be some tyrant, he's just doing standard BB maintenance, OK? We promise. Please see it from his side. He's trying to his moderatorly duties and keep things organized, and then somebody takes it the wrong way. Then, before you know it, you've got a whole bunch more members howling injustice - it makes it even more difficult for the moderator to do a good job.. It can get really intimidating to have a bunch of guys bashing you, and you easily get on the defensive. Take it easy on ol' Terrence. He just wants to help out the site, that's why he's a mod.

The official "rule" about moving might be a bit arbitrary at times, but does keep things organized - there would be no point in having forums for different topics. So we have a rule. ITs just to keep things organized. not to oppress. we promise.

Friends?
:)

-Eric

[Jim Clark]

Well, this is going great. Till now I've resisted flogging the proverbial dead horse and to some degree I will continue in that effort. (this post was originally significantly longer but then I realized that this wasn't the collegiate NDT and cut 90%)



I am at a loss at understand why all of the other boards don't complain about moderation, but this one does. Of course that's unfortunate and my guess is that it goes to the source of the problem. Many have attempted to explain it, to no avail. I might add that this forum is the largest here by a large margin with Home Theater coming in a distant second with nearly 2,000 fewer posts. Have you ever wondered why?


This website has rules, and they apply to ALL of the forums in it. I'm not familiar with those rules. I'm aware of the posted terms of service but honestly didn't see how the posts when viewed according to the terms of usage would necessitate the intervention of a moderator. Of course I'm not aware of the extra instruction provided to you in your role as moderator and fully realize that the site owners have the right to do whatever they want. I will continue to post here as long as the site continues to meet my needs, should that change I will move along too.

Regards,
jc

[ForeverAutumn]

Whoa, this has gotten pretty heated! Lets take a step back for minute.

Terrence isn't trying to be some tyrant, he's just doing standard BB maintenance, OK? We promise. Please see it from his side. He's trying to his moderatorly duties and keep things organized, and then somebody takes it the wrong way. Then, before you know it, you've got a whole bunch more members howling injustice - it makes it even more difficult for the moderator to do a good job.. It can get really intimidating to have a bunch of guys bashing you, and you easily get on the defensive. Take it easy on ol' Terrence. He just wants to help out the site, that's why he's a mod.

The official "rule" about moving might be a bit arbitrary at times, but does keep things organized - there would be no point in having forums for different topics. So we have a rule. ITs just to keep things organized. not to oppress. we promise.

Friends?
:)

-Eric

I believe that most of us ended up being okay with Terrence's reasons for moving the posts. It was his argumentative attitude that got him into trouble. Had he simply explained his position instead of trying to convince us of how wrong we all are, all of this could have been avoided.

He became his own worst enemy.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I think that I need to go relax to some Porcupine Tree. ;)

[tentoze]

Whoa, this has gotten pretty heated! Lets take a step back for minute.

Friends?
:)

-Eric
Eric,

The situation has deteriorated to where it is due to both the style and the substance of the methods employed by the moderator. Site rules are site rules, no argument. However, I note with interest that no response has been provided to BarryL's question asking why the "off-topic" book thread was allowed to stand. Selective, imperious, and arrogant enforcement of fuzzy rules will always stir the crowd, regardless of the other circumstances.

Having said that, it is clear that you, as Site Admin, support the moderator's actions; again, clearly your right to do so. As much as I enjoy the small community of knowledgeable members of Rave Recs, I choose to follow J (Mindgonehaywire) away from what RR is becoming.

Rave Reckers: Audiokarma is a salubrious environment, and that's where I'll be.

eric

[ericl]

Tentoze,

Like I said, it's easy to get on the defensive when you've got a bunch of guys yelling at you. And when someone gets defensive, they can get a little rash and make mistakes. it happens a lot to moderators in situations like this, so I am asking that you guys just have a little patience with us. We're far from perfect. We know that. We're trying our best.

-Eric

[mad rhetorik]

Am I the only person that sees the irony in all this? A moderator gets a bit obtrusive, and everybody goes on the attack saying that an overactive moderator will cause activity to cease on this board and make Rave Recs close down. And yet.. the board hasn't been this busy in quite awhile. Makes me scratch my head, you know? ; P

Anyway, Terrence: Do one of two things in the future. Either just allow friendly OT threads (as long as they aren't obvious troll or flame posts they're not hurting anybody, and this <b>is</b> the most active Audioreview board so it's logical that some OT threads are going to be here) or relocate/delete all OT threads. The latter option will cause a lot of irritation, and might cause people to leave, but hey, at least you'll be enforcing the guidelines equally. Right?

You didn't need to close that thread. I've been on <b>MANY</b> BB's where stuff gets more heated than that on nearly a weekly basis. I know it's up to you to prevent the spread of internet ugliness (one might call it "keyboard courage") and I don't envy your job. But we're all adults here. We can all hit "Ignore" if we choose to be offended. Unnecessary intervention only spreads more ill will--this time though, the malice will be directed at moderators.

Look Terrence, I know your job isn't easy. I'll chalk your indiscretion up to a lack of experience with the position, and I will continue to post here. No hard feelings.

[Troy]

I think a lot of you are missing the point.

The Incredibles thread was about movies. There is a movies board here. Movies belong there, not on the music board.

There is no "beechin' books" forum here. There is no "wednesday alchoholics" forum here. Those posts can stand anyplace. thus they remain at rave recs.

Frankly, there are a lot of message boards that won't allow ANY OT discussions at all. I think it's cool that they do here.

Lots of panties in a twist over this on both sides. It has blown itself WAY out of proportion.

Anyone that REALLY feels like thay can't post here anymore over this? Don't post here anymore. Too bad, it's everybody's loss.

The whole thing is just so ridiculously infantile, on BOTH sides of the net. I'm embarassed for all of us. Can we just drop it and move on please?

[Jim Clark]

I think a lot of you are missing the point. Might be true, if you include yourself in that group.


there is no "beechin' books" forum here. There is no "wednesday alchoholics" forum here. Those posts can stand anyplace. thus they remain at rave recs. Hopefully! Until Eric chimed in I'm not so sure anyone necessarily believed it would end that way. BTW, you are incorrect in your assumption: http://forums.audioreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29 As many stated, not all of us are interested in combing every forum in the joint.


Frankly, there are a lot of message boards that won't allow ANY OT discussions at all. I think it's cool that they do here.. The distinction of course being posted rules. I believe Terrence cited HTF but the difference is: "5. Members are to respect the designated TOPIC AREAS when posting their message. This includes off-topic and sales information that does not belong in the Main Forum area. Those who post messages that do not relate to the topic area, will have the threads closed or the posts deleted.Repeated violations of this rule will result in removal of your membership."

There is a reason I have accumulated about 5 posts at HTF in the same amount of time I've spent at AR. I had a choice to make and made it based on the rules and I considered HTF to be too stifling. Should that environment be implemented here I quickly lose interest, simple as that. Could it happen? I guess that is what this thread is all about isn't it?

Regards,
jc

[PeruvianSkies]

This stuff has been going on for at least 6 years....

[PeruvianSkies]

I remember these people.....so sad that many of them left.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I remember these people.....so sad that many of them left.

What is even more sad is that you thought to resurrect this when it is old as hell. If you have something personal against me, man up and come to me directly. Your beef does not have to play out for everyone to see - you think they want to participate in your stupid foolishness?

[02audionoob]

What is even more sad is that you thought to resurrect this when it is old as hell. If you have something personal against me, man up and come to me directly. Your beef does not have to play out for everyone to see - you think they want to participate in your stupid foolishness?

You're playing out your beef with a dozen people for everyone to see. Let one go for once and just watch what happens. It doesn't take much to bury the hatchet in a forum, in my experience.

[PeruvianSkies]

You're playing out your beef with a dozen people for everyone to see. Let one go for once and just watch what happens. It doesn't take much to bury the hatchet in a forum, in my experience.

Geesh, ain't that the damn truth.

For the record, I was searching past threads (in particular the one that was called "Mutiny on the AR Board" because I recall it being quite humorous and I even made a custom picture for GMichael that I think is still in my gallery, anyway, this thread came up when I looked up "mutiny" and when I skimmed through it I saw old friends.... anyone know where some of these peeps are?

Did they go to another forum?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Geesh, ain't that the damn truth.

For the record, I was searching past threads (in particular the one that was called "Mutiny on the AR Board" because I recall it being quite humorous and I even made a custom picture for GMichael that I think is still in my gallery, anyway, this thread came up when I looked up "mutiny" and when I skimmed through it I saw old friends.... anyone know where some of these peeps are?

Did they go to another forum?

You know this is BS, your action are completely transparent. Don't try and fein innocence, nobody is fooled by this.

[bobsticks]

You're playing out your beef with a dozen people for everyone to see. Let one go for once and just watch what happens. It doesn't take much to bury the hatchet in a forum, in my experience.

...actually it's PSkies taking a swipe at Terrence by dredging up an old post from when T had the sometimes-unenviable job of being a Mod at this site. It's done in a rather "what-who-me?" passive-aggresive style but it's mudslinging none the less.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

You're playing out your beef with a dozen people for everyone to see. Let one go for once and just watch what happens. It doesn't take much to bury the hatchet in a forum, in my experience.

I would like to bury the hatchet........and I'll just leave it at that.

[Geoffcin]

Hey guys; This is the Rave Recordings forums, not the Steel Cage. If you guys want to swipe at each other take it there, but be assured that no more of this will be allowed in ANY other forum.

[3LB]

Hey guys; This is the Rave Recordings forums, not the Steel Cage. If you guys want to swipe at each other take it there, but be assured that no more of this will be allowed in ANY other forum. good to see, however, such a statement might be kinda lost on many in the RR forum; its meaning woulda been foreign to me until I ventured out of the RR yard a couple of years ago. Given that threads like this 6-yr-old thread have been a daily occurance hence at AR (by pretty much the same few members), everywhere but RR, its hard to believe that whipping RR into shape was ever a priority.

[Rae]

Can someone please delete this thread?

~Rae

[3LB]

I remember these people.....so sad that many of them left.
you'd think you'd be the last guy who wanted to play the "dig up past threads" game. That thread you found from six years ago, while pretty much common in the other forums, is an anomally in RR...lets keep it that way. Your recent presence in RR has not been met with any resistance, as most here at RR are either unaware or uninterested in your vendetta against STtT. Your attempt to paint STtT as the reason why some posters' participation have waned over the years is inaccurate and makes your recent participation seem calculating. If you really don't like the guy, why invoke his name in the one forum that has thus far been immune to "those kinds of threads". Leave your baggage at the door.

[Troy]

Terrence, just ban PeruvianSkies and delete this thread.

Isn't that easy?

[poppachubby]

Guys...the recent issue between STT and PSkies has blown over. Let's let sleeping dogs lie...please.

[Rae]

Okay, but can this thread be banished to the archives somewhere? Folks who see it near the top of the page often forget to read the date stamp and the cycle starts all over again. Out of sight, out of mind, right?

~Rae

[poppachubby]

Rae, there's nothing I would love better than to trash alot of these ridiculously moldy and pointless flame threads.

As long as people are only posting their "final thoughts", and not provoking a flame war, I will leave it.

Don't worry, it's being monitored and if needed, will be removed or at the very least locked up.

Thanks for your input and concern regarding the health of the site...

[Rae]

OKAYALLRIGHTOKAYALLRIGHT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcaGlJGijj0)

~Rae

[bobsticks]

Wow. Wilco and a Rickroll all in one day...you've been busy. I love your all-too-infrequent visits Rae...

[3LB]

Guys...the recent issue between STT and PSkies has blown over. Let's let sleeping dogs lie...please.
say Chubbs...didja see who ressurected this thing? leads me to believe he doesn't think its blown over

as far as final thoughts go, most of today's posts were quite pointed in the direction of "no one is buying". But by all means, move it if you wish, as I suggested before, it really isn't an RR joint.

[poppachubby]

Yes 3LB, this ressurection along with several other colourful posts....but as I said, it's blown over and dealt with.