Help! Need advice on a center channel.

[JohnBee]

I am a college student with a tiny room. When i was living at home I had a 5.1 system and had the room for full size speakers. I am now in a situation where I dont have that freedom anymore but i still want my sound. Anyways, I have 2 small bookshelf speakers that are working out just fine, but my main problem is getting a center channel that fits. I need your advice on purchasing a center. What i really want to do is get just a small bookshelf speaker and use it as a center since that is prolly the only thing that will fit in my tight working area. Do you think a small bookshelf will work ok as a center for my small room situation? I have been looking into the AXIOM M1ti SE. Thanks for your time, any input from you guys would help alot!

[Woochifer]

Be careful what you ask for when it comes to center speakers. The key with choosing a center speaker is voice matching it to the main speakers. So, the first question in deciding on which center speaker to get is which main speaker you currently use. If a matching center speaker is available, then that is usually the likeliest match for the mains. Go with that model, listen for how well it matches the mains, and stick with it.

If you're choosing the center speaker to match the decor or squeeze it into a tight space, you're just asking for trouble.

IMO, the center speaker is one of those optional buys, where you go with it ONLY if it can be placed and used correctly, and if the center speaker is a sufficient match. If you have to squeeze it into an enclosure or mount it in an unusual configuration or if you only have enough room for a model with very different tonal characteristics than the mains, then you're actually better off without a center speaker. A lot of people feel that the center speaker is the most important one in a 5.1 setup because the majority of the dialog in movie soundtracks gets channeled through there. But, to me that means that you should not compromise the sound quality of the center speaker or the voice match with the main speakers just to have one.

Ideally, you would just go with three identical speakers up front, but the TV typically sits exactly where the middle speaker should go and most bookshelf speakers are not magnetically shielded to avoid interference with the TV. The horizontal center speaker was born out of these needs, not because of any inherent performance advantage.

[JohnBee]

Thanks for your input. I am sure I need a center channel for the movies i watch. But like you said its going to be very difficult to find a bookshelf speaker that will match my front speakers. It is also going to be difficult to find one speaker since normal speakers sell in twos. It looks like im off to ebay. If anyones can find me something or is selling something that might work for me drop me a line. thanks.

[PAT.P]

There a reason for a centre channel and its one of the most important speaker on a surround receiver .Check out the Paradigm cc cinema or their stylus cc,they are small and really give a good sound. They are so good that I'm using these at bookshelf.Around Ottawa canada one store was selling the stylus for under $100.00 Canadian .Pat.P

[JohnBee]

a real center channel speaker is out of the question. i need something that stands upright and is somewhat short. its sad but that all the room i have. had no luck on ebay either. thanks for the input though.

[Woochifer]

Thanks for your input. I am sure I need a center channel for the movies i watch. But like you said its going to be very difficult to find a bookshelf speaker that will match my front speakers. It is also going to be difficult to find one speaker since normal speakers sell in twos. It looks like im off to ebay. If anyones can find me something or is selling something that might work for me drop me a line. thanks.

Quite the contrary, you DO NOT NEED a center speaker if you truly do not have the space to accommodate one. And in fact, you DO NOT WANT a center speaker if the only alternative is to go with a mismatched model up front. Better to go with NO center speaker if you can't find a timbre matched model or if you have to resort to some bizarre placement.

Also, what main speakers are you using? No one can reasonably suggest something if we don't know what you're trying to match. Most speakers out there nowadays can be purchased individually because of not all of the combinations in the surround configurations are in multiples of two's.

Just because you read a lot about the Axioms is no reason that they will work right for your system (that is, unless you already own a pair of them for your mains).

[PAT.P]

a real center channel speaker is out of the question. i need something that stands upright and is somewhat short. its sad but that all the room i have. had no luck on ebay either. thanks for the input though.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well Axiom sell them by single M2i $140 US .Dont know anybody else that sell them by single .Pat.P

[Quagmire]

JohnBee,

First, let me say that I am a big proponent of using a center channel speaker. But... there are situations where not using one is actually preferred, and this is where I think Wooch has nailed it. The main purpose for a center channel speaker is to anchor the dialogue and other appropriate sounds to the screen for those who must sit off axis, or out of the "sweet spot". If this system is primarily just for you, and you can sit in the sweet spot on axis with the video display, then the need for a center channel speaker becomes far less critical. And if including a center channel speaker comes at a price of introducing other sonic compromises, as wooch has pointed out, then it may be that you are better off without one. However, if you can't sit in the sweet spot or you are just determined to have a center channel speaker regardless of our advice, then the most important factor becomes timbre matching the center speaker to the mains. The most obvious way to do that is to use a speaker identical to the mains as a center channel speaker. The fact that it is a bookshelf speaker is not a problem, on the contrary, the use of a bookshelf speaker with its drivers vertically aligned is a sonic advantage if it is properly matched to the mains. I advise people all the time to use a third "matching" bookshelf speaker instead of normal center speaker if possible because it will simply sound better. Of course the other major consideration is making sure that the speaker is video shielded. Fortunately, since Home Theater has become so popular, video shielding speakers has become more and more prevalent.

The big issue for you is... can you match ANY SPEAKER with your mains? Be it a bookshelf or center or otherwise. That is why Wooch has repeatedly asked you to identify your mains, which you have so far neglected to do. You really must do this if you want to receive any meaningful advice. If you can find a match for these that fits your space/placement limitations, then I would encourage you to purchase it. But if you can't AND you are able to sit in the sweet spot then omitting the center speaker is probably the best solution.

Q

[JohnBee]

i wasnt aware matching was so important but yeah that makes sence. the reason i didnt tell you about my main speakers is because i have current bids on two new main speakers so the currents are most likely going to the rear. but now i know if i do get anything i will have to get something that matches those that i end up purchasing. with your advice i will not be purchasing anything unless i can get a good match. thanks again for all your help.

[noddin0ff]

I think everyone above made some excellent points, especially pertaining to an idealized home theater. BUT, I would suggest that given your needs and room arrangements a center would not have to be 'timber matched', although obviously matching is better than not matching. I only suggest that it is not so critical as they argue. Given that sonic perfection is a lofty goal and that most of us make compromises, you may prefer to have the spatial isolation of dialog that a center provides. I would opt for a center even if not a perfect match because I can understand the dialog better and that adds a lot to my movie enjoyment (out of the sweet spot, e.g). You can probably adjust the tone of any center with your A/V receiver to get it to come close to matching. Close enough to experience and enjoy movies!

noddin0ff

[Hawkeye]

I agree with Woochifer in that ideally you'd like to get a matching center speaker. I'd also agree that having a center speaker is not absolutely necessary as without one, dialog will be directed to the R and L fronts. For music, in some cases, it may actually sound better, (not all....some). However I'd also agree with Noddinoff in that sometimes we all have to make sacrifices: financial, spatial, and otherwise. I would recommend a non-matching center but only as an inexpensive and temporary alternative. Seeing that you're in college, you'll probably not be living where you're at too much longer. Maybe you can get something inexpensive but decent enough, then sell it when you're ready to move to a new home and a new setup. Good luck.

[JohnBee]

ok just won my bid on ebay for the mirage omni 60's for $265 shipped so thats what i have to work from.

[C Bennett]

OOOh man I won't say you got taken for those Omni 60's but you should have asked first. Tweeter was blowing them out just last week. I got a pair of those brand new free shipping for $196. So you paid quite a bit more for those than you would have had too. I do love them though. I think with those and the way they disperse the sound that the "sweet Spot" is much bigger than most and you have MUCH less off axis effect. But thats too bad wish you would have said something they were $196 a pair free shipping :(. But I have a feeling that those speakers will probably be the most forgiving that I can think of if you don't have a center channel. I think with their soundstage if you can put your receiver in "pahntom" center mode that you will be just fine. Great speakers.........still well worth the price even at what you paid.

[JohnBee]

yeah i heard of the blowout but since its a blowout dont you think there gone?

[C Bennett]

They ran out on Friday but had them till then.(4 days ago friday the 11th or12th)

[JohnBee]

guess sometimes it pays off to visit retail stores : ) ...i remember going into to tweeter when this style of mirage came out and being blown away. we dont have a tweeter near sacramento so i missed out but 265 im not gonna complain. thanks guys.

[C Bennett]

No thats still well worth these speakers. Id have said if you paid $500 you still got a good speaker. I too like the sound and think for what you are looking for its probably one of the best as far as sweet spot and sound stage go.

[JohnBee]

a guy on ebay is selling 2 mirage omnisats for $220 shipped. that would get me a perfect center for myself. too bad hes not just selling the one...anyone in need of one omnisat. split the deal. haha i doubt it.

[C Bennett]

If your really looking for just 1 you could do this, its not as good a deal as the Ebay one for 2 of them but it is just the 1 you need and actually just a little bit less.
http://www.tweeter.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=1181271&cp=1176507

[JohnBee]

yeah that is true. the ebay deal was for the step above those ones that retail for $250. pretty good deal.

http://www.tweeter.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1163196&cp=1176507.1181271&parentPage=family.

[JohnBee]

Ok just to update anyone interested on what i finally did, here you go. After getting my mirage omni 60's i went to tweeter to listen to the omnisats to see if i liked the sound. I had the tweeter guy play the omni 50's, which was the closest to the 60's i could get, and use the omnisat and the omnisat micro as centers to test the sound. Both sounded amazing but at $180 i went with the micro. They also had a 25% deal going on so after tax i walked out of tweeter at $150. Last thing to get to complete my system will be the samsung dvd-audio/sacd player. Thanks again for everyones help.