Built in Phono preamps

[vr6ofpain]

What do you all think about the quality of the phono preamp sections built into most preamps and receivers?

Are they any good? Obviously it will depend on brand and level of the product, but I'm wondering what exactly makes up a phono preamp section.

I'm considering buying an 80's Rotel preamp/tuner and hooking it up to my preamp(that doesnt have a phono input) to use as both a tuner, and a way of feeding my record player into into it. I'm wondering about the quality of the built in phono preamp on such a component. It seems that outboard phono preamps(or Phono Equalizers, as Rotel calls them) cost quite a few dollars, some that I would much rather spend on music.

[Pat D]

What do you all think about the quality of the phono preamp sections built into most preamps and receivers?

Are they any good? Obviously it will depend on brand and level of the product, but I'm wondering what exactly makes up a phono preamp section.

I'm considering buying an 80's Rotel preamp/tuner and hooking it up to my preamp(that doesnt have a phono input) to use as both a tuner, and a way of feeding my record player into into it. I'm wondering about the quality of the built in phono preamp on such a component. It seems that outboard phono preamps(or Phono Equalizers, as Rotel calls them) cost quite a few dollars, some that I would much rather spend on music.
A phono preamp has two basic functions. First, it must raise the signal level from the phono cartridge (measured in millivolts) up to line level (measured in volts). Tape decks and CDPs produce line level outputs. Second, it provides reverse equalization to the RIAA curve. Dragging a record groove past a stylus is an inherently noisy process, so they decided to boost up the highs on the record, to keep them far above the noise, and then reduce the highs on playback, bringing them down to approximately the right level, and bringing down the high frequency record noise with it. Yes, it does sound like an awkward process, but it can work quite well.

If you have an ordinary high output cartridge, such as most moving magnet or moving iron (Grado) cartridges, the the phono preamp section will probably work very well. Most receivers don't have a moving coil input, which needs much more gain. I don't know what your Rotel unit would have, but as far as I have heard, there is nothing wrong with the phono preamp sections of the old Rotel products. The tuner should be decent, as well.

I still use an old HK 730 receiver for a tuner, BTW, and it works very well for the few stations we have, very flat response, very quiet (I have the review in the old High Fidelity magazine). I don't use its phono preamp, which always worked very well with a Grado cartridge, because my Quad preamp has its own phono preamp built in, which is very fine indeed.

If the Rotel unit is in working order and for sale at a reasonable price, it should be a good bet.

[kelsci]

I would use if I could find one used for a phono pre-amp a DYNACO PAT-4 pre-amplifier. In tests I did many years ago with this unit, it removed sub-sonics in its phono pre-amp section while maintaining bass frequency response when I outputted its tape out into another amp or receiver playing back vinyl. Just the opposite of the PAT-4 would be SONY amps and receivers of the 70s of which I do not recommend using for a phono pre-amp and tape out connection. If I were transferring vinyl to CD, the PAT-4 would be my only choice to use; its built in filter system is that good.

[Mr Peabody]

I'd think the Rotel would provide you with a decent phono stage. I found that phono stages are something you just have to try in your system to se how it works. I tried a NAD for under $100. that I thought was junk. I used the Creek OBH-8 which I thought was an outstanding performer and value for the price. I tried a $795. Primare that wasn't as good as the Creek. The phono stage will interpret the information that is picked up from your vinyl, it is a critical component to the sound quality you will hear.

[vr6ofpain]

I don't have a Rotel, but I was thinking of buying a cheap Rotel preamp/tuner for the phono preamp section and the tuner(hook it up via the tape record out to one of the inputs on my preamp).

How much did you get that Creek preamp for?

[Mr Peabody]

Check www.amusicdirect.com for pricing on the Creek OBH-8, I think it's around $169. If you don't already have the Rotel or know where you can get a deal on one, I'd recommend getting an outboard phono stage and picking up a used tuner. You may even save some money. Tuners are very cheap on Ebay. The OBH-8 is pure class A and does a great job. I didn't realize how good until I tried to upgrade. MD carries several phono stages and have a 30 return policy.

[vr6ofpain]

Check www.amusicdirect.com for pricing on the Creek OBH-8, I think it's around $169. If you don't already have the Rotel or know where you can get a deal on one, I'd recommend getting an outboard phono stage and picking up a used tuner. You may even save some money. Tuners are very cheap on Ebay. The OBH-8 is pure class A and does a great job. I didn't realize how good until I tried to upgrade. MD carries several phono stages and have a 30 return policy.

They have the Creek for $199.

These two are more in my pricerange:

Music Hall, $119:
http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?cat=130&sku=ACRMMF

Sumiko(class A), $119:
http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?cat=130&sku=ASUMPHONO


Thanks for the site!

[vr6ofpain]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3283&item=5731134240&rd=1

went cheap($16). if it sounds like hell, I will probably get one of these(in fact if someone outbids me on my auction I will purchase one of these right out):
http://www.audioreplay.net/tc750pp.html
http://www.audioreplay.net/images/Tc-750rear.jpg
it was well regarded by someone in the Analog Room

[vr6ofpain]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3283&item=5731134240&rd=1

went cheap($16). if it sounds like hell, I will probably get one of these(in fact if someone outbids me on my auction I will purchase one of these right out):
http://www.audioreplay.net/tc750pp.html
it was well regarded by someone in the Analog Room

Somebody outbid me! I gonna go with this baby!
http://www.audioreplay.net/images/Tc-750rear.jpg