HK AVR630 vs. Yamaha RX-V1500???

[Cumminspuller]

Well here is my dilema.....I ordered an HK AVR630 the other day. It was a remanufactured from HK's website for $714 shipped. I hadn't been able to find a local A/V store, but today someone told me the local music shop is an authorized Yamaha dealer. Went by there and the salesman told me he could sell me a RX-V1500 for $649.99 + 8.75% tax. So roughly the same price as the HK. Well the HK has not arrived yet. Should be here November 1st. The salesman told me that HK does not use high current amps in their receivers like Yamaha does. Is this true?

In you guys opinions would you have choosen the 1500 over the 630?

Jason

[kpzbee]

Unless the HK has features the Yammie don't, I'd go for the Yammie. I'm on my second Yamaha as the first one is still going strong, with no repairs, after 10 years. :) Dollar for dollar, reman vs new, I'd go new. The dealer that I bought my Yamaha from, doubles the factory warrenty for free.

[PAT.P]

Well here is my dilema.....I ordered an HK AVR630 the other day. It was a remanufactured from HK's website for $714 shipped. I hadn't been able to find a local A/V store, but today someone told me the local music shop is an authorized Yamaha dealer. Went by there and the salesman told me he could sell me a RX-V1500 for $649.99 + 8.75% tax. So roughly the same price as the HK. Well the HK has not arrived yet. Should be here November 1st. The salesman told me that HK does not use high current amps in their receivers like Yamaha does. Is this true?

In you guys opinions would you have choosen the 1500 over the 630?

Jason
THE YAMAHA CANT BE BEAT FOR THE PRICE !MORE FEATURE ,MICROPHONE <MORE PLAYING MODE ,2-4-6-8 OHM HANDLING ANY SPEAKER(MADE A MISTAKE OF BUYING A SONY !KNOW SAVING FOR THE YAMAHA 1500or the 2500 a BIT MORE MONEY AND MORE POWER PLUS BOTH ARE GREAT )PAT.P :)

[woodman]

A genuine, bona fide no brainer ... make the switch if you can. You'll be far better off with the Yamaha, believe me (I have more than 50 years of hands-on experience actually working on the insides of these things).

P.S. By the way, what the salesman told you was not correct ... the HK does use "high-current" amplifiers - but that doesn't change anything. The Yamaha is very likely to be far more reliable than the HK for openers, plus the fact that it includes what I consider the MOST important feature to appear in consumer electronics in the last 20-30 years ... the YPAO automatic equalization of the entire set of speakers to more closely match the acoustics of the room and give you a far better surround sound presentation than what has been possible to achieve in any other way.

Good luck

[NickWH]

I vote for the Harmon Kardon. Better amplification. You'll never use the extra bells and whistles. At the end of the day, the HK will still sound better.

[poneal]

I've not used the new yamaha models but had one about 10 years ago and it worked but I didn't like the sound it put out. Can't really explain it but it just kinda sounded clinical I guess maybe to shrill. I own a HK320 and have fell in love with the warm sound that it delivers to the speakers. Plenty of ooomph in the lower end, drives 4ohm speakers, has preouts and all the goodies you will probably need. The only thing I purchased extra was RS SPL meter and the sound and vision setup disk to set the levels of the speakers and video on the TV. So my vote goes for HK. And yes, woodman is right, the salesman told you a lie because HK amps are high current amps. That alone would turn me off from him. Either way, it's your choice but my opinon is HK offers better sound quality and is on the up and up about wattage.

[PAT.P]

Never had a yamaha but talk to dealer thats sells HK , Marantz ,Yamaha and told me to be honest the Yamaha is the best receiver out there for the money (I like the extra bells and whistle ) and yamaha is the one Im saving for ! A bit backward in CANADA the new Yamaha are not out yet! I have three Home theater receiver Technics SA-GX303 /Sherwood HTR-250/ Sony STR-DE595! I also have three more plain receiver Pioneer SX-820 /Sansui 771 / Marantz 1530 (wife told me some of these have to go ) BUT MY NEXT ONE WILL BE THE YAMAHA !!!!! Pat.P :D

[eisforelectronic]

I Like HK. I always figured if Yamaha couldn't impress me with their supposedly "best they had to offer" demo at CES, then how impressive could their other receivers be. I also typically don't use many of the "bells and whistles".

[nick4433]

I will vote for the HK. Why? Because the HK has much better amplification than the Yamaha and the HK offers Bass Management for the 5.1/6/1 inputs which is a big deal if you are into SACS or DVD audio.

[spacedeckman]

Although I haven't heard a head to head with the two, the Yamaha will be more reliable, and, again, not playing with the 1500, it's predecessors sounded far better than their price points alluded to.

The equalization will do far more than you could ever do with a RS meter (like 7 bands of parametric per channel), meaning easier to set up and get right.

Sonically, I'm betting the Yamaha will give the h/k a good run for its money. Yamaha has put a lot of money, especially on the front end of their receviers the past 5 years or so. Their amplifiers are also far better sounding than they were 6-8 years ago. They used to sound lean and bright without much bass control. That has all changed. Yamaha's have gotten better, and I don't beleive the h/ks have done the same.

Sorry, been an h/k owner for nearly 25 years. I'm on the Yamaha side of things here.

[PAT.P]

I vote for the Harmon Kardon. Better amplification. You'll never use the extra bells and whistles. At the end of the day, the HK will still sound better.
ANOTHER BELL AND WHISTLE FOR THE YAMAHA ! YPAO (YAMAHA PROFESSIONAL ROOM ACOUSTIC OPTIMIZER ) :D !!!!!! PAT.P

[kexodusc]

I imagine the H/K might have a bit more power, but in the end, it probably won't sound any better....factor in Yamaha's legendary build quality record, the YPAO feature, all the bells and whistles which you probably SHOULD use to enjoy the unit, and the H/K is a bad value competitively.

That salesman bold faced lied to you, if I were you, I'd march back in their and tell him to prove the high current theory he spit at you...the H/K has a far larger power supply...also, ask him to explain "high current" to you and watch him squirm. If nothing else, you might get an extra $20 out of him...
Get they Yammie, it's a super unit.

[NickWH]

factor in Yamaha's legendary build quality record

The Yamaha weighs 34lbs, the HK weighs 41lbs. I wonder where all that weight goes too....

[Randy and Tina]

H/K gets my Vote I am not familiar with the yammy but own the AVR630 best reciever I ever had plenty of power and great sound You must consider the fact that the yammy is $600.00+ new while the H/K is $1000.00+ new now I know some manufacturers are just higher priced but these two recievers arent even in the same price range. Yes the H/K is a refurbished unit but unlike other manufacturers who only warranty thier items for 90 days H/K carries the same as a new unit. The H/K has a web site with a customer service who respond to question within 24 hours and if you call thier tech line and leave your number they will return your call within 1 hour I know this is true as I talked to them before and after I bought the 630 try tha with a yammy. As far as the dealer who lied to you I would not buy from him even if I decided to go with the Yammy
Good Luck

[kexodusc]

The Yamaha weighs 34lbs, the HK weighs 41lbs. I wonder where all that weight goes too....
The Taurus is heavier than the Toyota Camry too, are you gonna tell me that means it's of higher quality?
Most of that weight would be dedicated to the larger power supply and heatsinks. Only a fool would rely on weight equating to build quality - bigger doesn't mean more reliable, just bigger...there's some heavy Sony receivers out there too.

I when I was shopping for receivers to replace my old Marantz, I went to 4 a/v shops that had inhouse service techs...they all told me the same thing, most brands are okay, except for a few bad periods they'll all go through, but Yamaha has been consistenly the tops in terms of reliability, low defect rates, etc...about 2 years ago on this board, there was a slew of H/K problems (which they seemed to have fixed). Yamaha is far more scrutinizing in what they release to market, sometimes this means they lag behind the times, sometimes not.
Woodman, I know, has worked on these units for years. Testimony from experienced people like him means far more to me than the mass of the chassis, power supply units, etc...

Even if the brands were equal in terms of quaity, when I demo'd the NAD, H/K, Yamaha, and Denon receivers just last fall, there wasn't much difference in any in terms of sound quality...NAD was the best, the others were pretty much tied.
Feature wise the Denon and Yamaha's were so far ahead of the other two it wasn't funny. Yamaha is typically known for having the best (and in my opinion the only worthwhile) DSP's in it's processors. Through in a built in Parametric EQ and it's a no brainer.
That eliminated the H/K from my list, because I DO use the features....if some companies can package them in a receiver, what are you paying for if you buy a receiver without many features? Dead weight?

I think if I were buying a 2 channel receiver or integrated amp, the H/K and NAD would have finished tops. But I already have a nice Rotel integrated, I wanted a top notch A/V feature box with decent sound and all the nice bells and whistles.

[NickWH]

The Taurus is heavier than the Toyota Camry too, are you gonna tell me that means it's of higher quality?

Only a fool would equate audio to automobiles.


Most of that weight would be dedicated to the larger power supply and heatsinks.

And driving speakers is probably the most important job a receiver has to do, right? But this doesn't matter much to the HT crowd, gizmos and DSP matters most. Dolby Digital is Dolby Digital, and DTS is DTS. As long as the DACs are comparable, the processing is comparable. Unless you plan on using outboard amps, the amplifier section of a receiver, along with the preamp section, is the most important "feature" of these devices. Your fancy gimmicks will be outdated by next year just like your computer. HT is a marketing treadmill of never-ending upgrades. If one is interested in keeping a component for a while, it better get the important stuff right. When you want to drive five to seven speakers, the power supply better be up to the task when you raise the volume control. That's all I'm saying. In the mass-produced AVR market, HK is hard to beat on this front, and most of the reviews back this up.

It appears Kexodusc felt the need to augment the power of his Yamaha receiver with Adcom power amps.

I'm done with this thread.

[kexodusc]

And driving speakers is probably the most important job a receiver has to do, right? But this doesn't matter much to the HT crowd, gizmos and DSP matters most. Dolby Digital is Dolby Digital, and DTS is DTS. As long as the DACs are comparable, the processing is comparable. Unless you plan on using outboard amps, the amplifier section of a receiver, along with the preamp section, is the most important "feature" of these devices. Your fancy gimmicks will be outdated by next year just like your computer. HT is a marketing treadmill of never-ending upgrades. If one is interested in keeping a component for a while, it better get the important stuff right. When you want to drive five to seven speakers, the power supply better be up to the task when you raise the volume control. That's all I'm saying. In the mass-produced AVR market, HK is hard to beat on this front, and most of the reviews back this up.

I'm done with this thread.
Listen, NickWH, I'm glad you like H/K...I do too...but let's compare the onboard amp sections of these 2 units to each other...Yes the H/K's got more reserve power...but unless you're driving some incredibly inefficient speakers, big deal!!! You need DOUBLE the power to produce a barely audible 3 dB difference in volume!!! The H/K doesn't have that much extra...That H/K isn't going to drive anything better than that Yammie....PERIOD!!! If one has a problem, they both will at that point...better look to adding power amps (which I did).
Your advice to purchase the H/K on the basis it's amp section is better is just wrong!!! It doesn't translate into improved performance...horribly irresponsible of you...I'll let that slide as honest ignorance on your part. Read on, and I'll hold your hand and step you through this!

I actually LISTENED to these models...THERE IS NO SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCE IN SOUND QUALITY...especially when it comes to the amp section in receivers below $1200 or so...They're so freakin' close it's not funny.
I'm not bashing the H/K...just the fact given the fact that they amps cancel each other out in terms of performance, you HAVE to look at the other tangible items...Yeah, the DSP gizmos, the HUGELY significant impact a Parametric EQ can have on overall sound quality (far greater than any minimal differences in these two quality amp sections) and other features stuff...IT IS AN HT receiver afterall, not a 2-channel integrated...HENCE DOLBY DIGITAL and DTS are ESSENTIAL components...the DAC's are important...but they both have that...so lets look at the VALUE ADDED components - yeah DSP's, and YPAO...sorry the H/K comes up short here!

So what are you paying for? Reliability? Again, the H/K is equal at best...the choice is becoming pretty obvious...at this point, the ease of use, looks etc, better come into play, or you had better have some substantial brand loyalty to H/K to justify that puchase.

So Nick, unless you've got some sort of substantial argument suggesting that H/K's amp section is going to translate into some real world advantage (which is impossible for you to produce), your arguments fall flat on their face...

As for reviews...yeah, I invite you to actually take a look at some, when you crank that volume dial when driving 5 or 7 speakers, H/K's are far more likely to break-down...PERIOD.

Don't take it personally!

[PAT.P]

The Yamaha weighs 34lbs, the HK weighs 41lbs. I wonder where all that weight goes too....
Sorry but for a weight isue this is a bit to far ! are the old tv sound better than the new TV (not) MAYBE I COULD OPEN MY RECEIVER AND ADD SOME ROCKS IN IT WHAT DO YOU THINK ?MY SONY WILL BECOME A HK!PAT.P :D

[nick4433]

Sorry but for a weight isue this is a bit to far ! are the old tv sound better than the new TV (not) MAYBE I COULD OPEN MY RECEIVER AND ADD SOME ROCKS IN IT WHAT DO YOU THINK ?MY SONY WILL BECOME A HK!PAT.P :D

NO, but since you came up with the "rock" analogy, maybe you should!
While I agree that unless you double the power you won't feel the difference and all that is fine but, DD and DTS are very power hungry and any amount of reserve power your receiver can provide will help in enhancing the movie experience.
I have tried the Yamaha 3300 and the Denon 4802 as receivers and even those receivers fell short in comarison to my amps which are 150W/channel so I was not even close to doubling my amp power over the existing receivers.
I could tell a difference in music and movies right away in that everything sounded much cleaner and less muddier than the receiver's own amplification. Infact in my experience, the extra power seemed to have benefited DTS movies slightly more than DD although both sounded much better with external amplification.
The doubling of power should not be seen as an issue at all IMHO because you don't necessarily want to double the listening volume but have more power in reserve and I believe the HKs have definitely more of reserve power than the Yammys.
One reason I put forth favoring the HK was its awesome Bass management for external sources which everyone here deem trivial but very important IMHO and I will buy the HK for that reason alone over the said Yamaha. Both have identical decoding abilities and while the Yamaha does have YPAO, I wouldn't stress too much over it as it does nothing to adjust the most critical of all adjustments, Bass.

[PAT.P]

NO, but since you came up with the "rock" analogy, maybe you should!
While I agree that unless you double the power you won't feel the difference and all that is fine but, DD and DTS are very power hungry and any amount of reserve power your receiver can provide will help in enhancing the movie experience.
I have tried the Yamaha 3300 and the Denon 4802 as receivers and even those receivers fell short in comarison to my amps which are 150W/channel so I was not even close to doubling my amp power over the existing receivers.
I could tell a difference in music and movies right away in that everything sounded much cleaner and less muddier than the receiver's own amplification. Infact in my experience, the extra power seemed to have benefited DTS movies slightly more than DD although both sounded much better with external amplification.
The doubling of power should not be seen as an issue at all IMHO because you don't necessarily want to double the listening volume but have more power in reserve and I believe the HKs have definitely more of reserve power than the Yammys.
One reason I put forth favoring the HK was its awesome Bass management for external sources which everyone here deem trivial but very important IMHO and I will buy the HK for that reason alone over the said Yamaha. Both have identical decoding abilities and while the Yamaha does have YPAO, I wouldn't stress too much over it as it does nothing to adjust the most critical of all adjustments, Bass.
My audio dealer sells lots of kind of receiver ,amps ,pre-amps ask him honestly (WHAT RECEIVER WOULD BE THE BEST TO UPGRADE TOO AND TOLD ME THE YAMAHA ! ) This is the reason the Hk ,Marantz ect ect are behind the Yamaha and the feature of the Yamaha are one step ahead in the home theater ! Its the next receiver I'll be buying !We cant all think the same? Pat.P

[Cumminspuller]

Descisions, descisions......Thanks to all who have replied. I am at a loss. I guess I will audition them both. The HK should be here tomorrow. One think I am trying to keep in perspective is the fact that it seems like a quite alot of you are pretty hard core A/V HT enthusiasts. This is my first purchase and most of the bells and whistles that these two receivers have are beyond the scope of my knowledge at this point. I do like, from past experiences, crisp clean sound/music. Baut I am willing to give the yamaha a try. So maybe after listening to the HK for a few days, I will go get the 1500 and listen to it.

Jason

[PAT.P]

Descisions, descisions......Thanks to all who have replied. I am at a loss. I guess I will audition them both. The HK should be here tomorrow. One think I am trying to keep in perspective is the fact that it seems like a quite alot of you are pretty hard core A/V HT enthusiasts. This is my first purchase and most of the bells and whistles that these two receivers have are beyond the scope of my knowledge at this point. I do like, from past experiences, crisp clean sound/music. Baut I am willing to give the yamaha a try. So maybe after listening to the HK for a few days, I will go get the 1500 and listen to it.

Jason
FINALY!!! Dont forget to bring your favorite music at both best way to solve your opinion and speaker as close of yours for both system .Your ears will tell and so is the price $$$$$ ! Pat.P

[kpzbee]

Descisions, descisions......Thanks to all who have replied. I am at a loss. I guess I will audition them both. The HK should be here tomorrow. One think I am trying to keep in perspective is the fact that it seems like a quite alot of you are pretty hard core A/V HT enthusiasts. This is my first purchase and most of the bells and whistles that these two receivers have are beyond the scope of my knowledge at this point. I do like, from past experiences, crisp clean sound/music. Baut I am willing to give the yamaha a try. So maybe after listening to the HK for a few days, I will go get the 1500 and listen to it.

Jason

Just a thought. :) I looked at a 1500 also but for my needs, I felt I could do with a 750. It has almost the same amount of features as the 1500 for a lot less money. The 1500 has THX certification & the 750 don't but from what I've read one here, it's no big deal. I'm very pleased with my 750 & it does anything I want from it. I use mine mostly for H/T.

[kexodusc]

kpzbee brings up a good point on this one...when I bought my receiver (RX-V1400) and was comparing the Denon, H/K, and NAD units with it, the NAD was the only one that had enough real power to satisfy my room size, but was just too much money. I had to use external power amps anyway so I went with the receiver that sounded the best to me and had the most features.
For the price of the 1500, you can use the 650 or 750 as a pre/pro and add some pretty decent external amplification that would smoke the RX-V1500.
The THX stuff is a waste of time IMO, but the parametric eq feature can make quite a bit of difference, this is one advantage to the RX-V1500 over the RX-V750.
However, if space saving and simplicity are important, the RX-V1500 is probably more than enough power for most people, and is a decent unit.

[kpzbee]

I know a lot of you guys are really into this stuff, where I'm just want a good sounding system. My 750 does an awesome job in a 20'X20' living room running a 6.1 set up. It never sees half of what it can deliver, so the rest seems overkill to me. It still has 100 watts per channel. That's why I suggested it. Oh, it also has the YPAO feature that the 1500 has(new to this model this year).

[kexodusc]

There's a few extra stages in the 1400 and 1500's YPAO. The 1XXX series have full parametric equalization (which basically smoothes out the frequency response in your room), a feature that can have as big an impact on sound quality as anything. But I wouldn't buy the receiver for this feature alone (actually I did)...in my old house, it didn't make a difference at all...in my new house it does make a slight difference, but not worth the extra $300 IMO...I believe in some rooms it could be a huge factor.
Anyway, the RX-V750, RX-V650, and HTR-5760 get my votes as best value receiver on the market right now. If you've got the cash, or want a bit more you get more options. Don't put yourself in the poorhouse doing it though.