Table adjustment/P-Mount questions.

[N. Abstentia]

Okay, a two parter here.

Currently using a Pioneer table with a new standard mount Grado cartridge. I'm not a complete moron, but I don't know all the little factoids about cartridge adjustment. I've always read that the counterweight should be balanced so the arm almost floats in the air, with just enough weight to make it fall to the record. Well when doing this, records sound like junk. They sound like they are scratched all to hades, very staticy and unlistenable. Adjusting the weight way forward so the cartridge does not 'float' at all cleans the sound up nicely and the records sound perfect. Is something else out of whack or is the 'adjust the weight till it floats' useless advice?

Now I was also kicking around the idea of getting a Denon turntable with a p-mount cartridge to eliminate all that setup stuff. It's supposed to be dead on, but after this little experiment I'm not sure. Do p-mount carts always stay adjusted correctly? At this point of not knowing that much about all the adjustments I feel I'll never know if my arm/cart is adjusted right with a standard setup, and that will distract me from hearing the music! I know P-mount is supposed to eliminate all that, does it work that good?

Before starting a p-mount vs. standard war, right now I'm not concerned with the lack of selection of cartridges. Grado or Shure is fine. I also don't want to buy a bunch of alignment gauges and stuff. Maybe later though. Later down the road (next winter hopefully) I will more than likely be buying a new table when my listening room is done. I will go with something nicer then, standard mount for sure. I just need to get by for now and a p-mount Denon sounds like it's right up my alley. Just looking for opinions from the experienced folks!

[trollgirl]

...intended to make the arm/cartridge geometry standard and reproducable. Some might say it just dumbs things down. There are good P-Mounts out there, and a lot of bad ones - that makes me think the dumbing down is more like it. I have in my collection a Shure M105E P-Mount, which is in a universal-mount adapter. It's in good shape, and even has the little brush. I've never used it, so I don't know how it sounds, but I assume from the high M-number that it is good. Maybe I should not assume...

Laz

[E-Stat]

Okay, a two parter here.

Currently using a Pioneer table with a new standard mount Grado cartridge. I'm not a complete moron, but I don't know all the little factoids about cartridge adjustment. I've always read that the counterweight should be balanced so the arm almost floats in the air, with just enough weight to make it fall to the record. Well when doing this, records sound like junk.
That's a new one on me for applying the correct tracking force in over thirty years of setting up turntables. Every cartridge has a recommended range of acceptable tracking forces. The method I have always used is to set the counterweight so that the tracking force at the stylus tip is the desired figure using a gauge. I will agree that I prefer running my cartridges at the higher end of the recommended value to provide the best tracking. The recommended tracking force for Grado cartridges, for example, is 1.5 grams. Some tonearms have a built in calibration for setting the tracking force. You begin by truly floating the arm at zero grams. Then by turning the counterweight a calibrated number of turns, you achieve the desired force. My Souther arm, on the other hand, requires the use of a separate gauge to provide the answer.


Now I was also kicking around the idea of getting a Denon turntable with a p-mount cartridge to eliminate all that setup stuff. It's supposed to be dead on, but after this little experiment I'm not sure. Do p-mount carts always stay adjusted correctly?
In one of three planes, yes. It assures that the fore-aft alignment of the cartridge is automatically set affecting the azimuth and overall arm geometry (assuming a conventional pivoted arm). It does not, however, have anything to do with the overall height of the arm affecting the vertical tracking angle (VTA), nor the tracking force.

rw

[jbangelfish]

I would do the "floatie" routine but then I'd set the counterweight dial to "0". From there, I'd turn the weight in to 1 1/4g for my old Shure V15III. I believe this was the idea and probably was not very accurate. As the Pioneer tt got older, it did not move inward in accordance with the gauge, as it was supposed to. Now, a few tt's later, I use a scale
and don't worry what the counterweight gauge says. You can buy a Shure tracking force gauge for $20. It's a simple balance beam and seems to work very well. Having your weight set to near floating will always result in tracking way too light and will always sound very bad.
As for P Mounts, I would avoid them. There may be some decent ones but they are made with ease of use and not sound quality in mind. Perfect setup parameters are not likely to be achieved by any of them as the connection is not very precise. I did try a few P Mounts (AT cheapos) and hated all of them. If this comes off as a generalization, sorry, but I'll never have another one. Proper setup can be a bit of a pain but if I can do it, most anyone probably can.
Bill