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Mongoose1
10-07-2004, 07:50 PM
Bet you all haven't seen this before out of a first time poster...ok, thats sarcasm.

I'm mostly looking for reassurance or alternate options. My budget is roughtly $2000 for a listening area of 10x11x8, although the room dimensions are closer to 20x11x8. I am a big fan of 70's music (Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, etc) so my main concern is good musical quality. DVDs...well, anything beats my TV so I'm happy :)

I haven't owned my own speaker system and it sure doesn't feel like I've done enough research...so I'd appreciate opinions. However, since I've only been out of college for a bit over a year, I'm very familiar with the loud, booming systems and that is definately not what I desire. I want clear and crisp sound as it was intended to be.

My current plan is to purchase (5.1 setup):

Ascend Acoustics CBM170s front, center, and surrounds
SVS 20-39CS Sub
Yamaha RX-V1400 receiver

So, as the title says, I'm looking for any comments you may have. I am willing to spend a few more $ if there are tangible benefits...I'm not an audiophile (yet).

1 question (if you get this far)....how much of a benefit will a normal person hear off of a 6.1 or 7.1 system vs a 5.1?

Thanks in advance!

Wireworm5
10-08-2004, 12:05 AM
I assume by reading your post your room has an opening attached to another room. If you can place speakers in the other section you might get balanced sound. However regardless of what you buy I would be concerned that the main room is too small for anything other than a pair of bookshelves or mini-bookshelves and a small sub woofer. Small rooms in my experience tend to be lively so you can easily get boomy bass and you won't need much volume to have the sound bouncing off the walls. But with the right matching speakers for this room you can still have a great sounding system.

bargainseeker
10-08-2004, 07:04 AM
My current plan is to purchase (5.1 setup):

Ascend Acoustics CBM170s front, center, and surrounds
SVS 20-39CS Sub
Yamaha RX-V1400 receiver

So, as the title says, I'm looking for any comments you may have. I am willing to spend a few more $ if there are tangible benefits...I'm not an audiophile (yet).First, I think your choice of speakers is an excellent one. The Ascend CBM170s are a good match to your interests, budget and listening room. I can recommend them from personal experience.

I think SVS is a good choice as the brand for your subwoofer. However, the specific model you are considering will not work in this system. The 20-39CS is a passive subwoofer with no internal amplifier. You need to be looking at one of SVSs powered subwoofers to hook up to an A/V receiver. For this size room, and considering that music is a major requirement, I recommend the PB10-ISD (http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb10_isd.htm). See this thread (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=211635) for comments on the PB10-ISD from Edward J M who is conducting a detailed review of this subwoofer (he was sent a review sub by SVS). To save floor space, you may want to consider getting a white or wall-color-matched PB10-ISD and mounting it on a sturdy shelf in an upper corner where the ceiling meets two walls.

Yamaha is also a good choice of brand for your receiver. However, I think the RX-V1400 receiver is overkill for this relatively small room. Neither do I recommend buying ahead of your needs with A/V electronics as they tend to become obsolete in 5 years or so. Also, because the RX-V line of Yamaha receivers can only be purchased with warranty from a local specialty retailer, you rarely can get a good price on one. See this thread (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=7349) for more information. Instead, I would recommend the Yamaha HTR-5760 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/HTIB/HTR-5760.htm). It can be purchase from etronics for $327.00 (http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?icatid=4118&stk_code=yamhtr5760). Etronics is an online retailer that I have dealt with in the past and can recommend from personal experience. Before buying from etronics, double check with Yamaha that they are a factory authorized dealer. If they are not, then you can get the HTR-5760 for $369.99 from J&R (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3991483). I know that J&R is an authorized Yamaha dealer and I can recommend them from personal experience also.

Finally, I recommend that you save money on wire and cables by buying speaker wire from Parts Express (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=100-155) and NXG cables and banana plugs from Hi Fi for Less (http://www.hififorless.com/categories.php?categoryid=181).

If you add up my recommendations, you are well under $2000. I suggest you use the difference to upgrade your DVD player to one that can play SACD and DVD-A disks (if you don't already have one) and to buy DVDs, SACDs and DVD-A disks.



1 question (if you get this far)....how much of a benefit will a normal person hear off of a 6.1 or 7.1 system vs a 5.1?!Until more 6.1 or 7.1 source material (DVDs, CDs, etc.) becomes available, I expect that there is very limited benefit to having a 6.1 or 7.1 speaker setup, especially in a modest-sized listening room such as your own.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
10-08-2004, 08:28 AM
To save floor space, you may want to consider getting a white or wall-color-matched PB10-ISD and mounting it on a sturdy shelf in an upper corner where the ceiling meets two walls.

I would not recommend this for the following reason. It will introduce(or acerbate) wall vibrations. The vibrations will render the sub visible sonically, and at the very least be VERY annoying. Its best to keep subs on the floor for this reason.


However, I think the RX-V1400 receiver is overkill for this relatively small room.
I never purchase amp power soley based on my room size. I usually recommend buying power that gives me extra headroom. Keep in mind, the less hard a amp has to work, the better it sounds. The more you push the amp, the more distortion creeps in. Also the V1400 has enough bells and whistles to keep anyone busy for years. He may move(or move his listening space) to a larger listening space in a few years, and can use the extra power. Even if he never moves, he knows he has enough power to playback even the most demanding of soundtracks with no sweat.
Just my .00005465 cents worth

bargainseeker
10-08-2004, 09:16 AM
I would not recommend this for the following reason. It will introduce(or acerbate) wall vibrations. The vibrations will render the sub visible sonically, and at the very least be VERY annoying. Its best to keep subs on the floor for this reason.I have not personally observed this effect. However, I will listen for it in the future.



I never purchase amp power soley based on my room size. I usually recommend buying power that gives me extra headroom. Keep in mind, the less hard a amp has to work, the better it sounds. The more you push the amp, the more distortion creeps in. Also the V1400 has enough bells and whistles to keep anyone busy for years. He may move(or move his listening space) to a larger listening space in a few years, and can use the extra power. Even if he never moves, he knows he has enough power to playback even the most demanding of soundtracks with no sweat.
Just my .00005465 cents worthBy overkill, I meant more cost than power. The power ratings of the two receivers are quite close. The RX-V1400 is rated at 110W X 7 (20HZ - 20KHz) and the HTR-5760 is rated at 95W X 7 (20HZ - 20KHz). However, an RX-V1400 from an authorized dealer will likely cost $799 while an HTR-5760, which lists for $549, can be bought from an authorized dealer for $369 or less. The HTR-5760 also comes with quite a lot of bells and whistles such as Yamaha's YPAO which uses an included microphone to automatically equalize the frequency response in the listening room.

Mongoose1
10-09-2004, 09:21 AM
Thanks for the responses...couple comments.

I'm not too worried about floor space as there is a corner that is perfect for the sub...plus my luck I'd bounce the stupid thing off my head when hanging it so its probably safer I leave it on the ground :)

Also, regarding the RX-V1400 vs HTR-5760, I'll probably go with the HTR version as I recently purchased the house and don't expect to move for at least 5 years. I was looking at getting a good DVD player...maybe I'll upgrade that a bit more per bargainseeker's suggestion. And btw, the speaker wire suggestion was appreciated as well.

Finally, regarding room dimensions, I was both wrong and unclear. The room is roughly 25x11x8 (2200 cu.ft), but my furniture stops after 10ft or so. "listening area" was a poor choice of words. The surrounds can go all the way to the back wall.

Wireworm5
10-09-2004, 10:35 PM
Well it just so happens my room is 11'x25'x7.5' also. I just recently re-arranged my room placing my Studio 100's in the corners on the long wall. Left and right channel seperated by approx. 23' toed in to the sweet spot in middle of the room 12.5' from speakers.On the back wall I have my Monitor 9's in the corners parrallel to wall facing sweet spot. The center channel is positioned in the middle of front wall 5' off the floor and 2' to the right and left of that my B&W 601s bookshelves.Let me tell you the sound is terrific.
My Studios dominate the room but are powered by a Bryston 3B-st and my other speakers by a Yammie RX-V2200. If you can find a used pair of Paradigm 100 v2 grab em, the Yammie can drive them but they'll sound much better with a power amp and you won't need a sub.

bargainseeker
10-10-2004, 05:27 AM
I would not change any of my recommendations based on your updated room dimensions.


Wireworm5 has given you a speaker arrangement that has worked well for him that is based around the A/V system being located in the middle of the long wall. If instead you want to locate your A/V system in the middle of the short wall, I recommend the following arrangement:

-- Center speaker located just above or below the TV.
-- Left and right front speakers on relatively tall stands (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006JPWA/) either side of the TV, about 7 feet apart and adjusted so that they are at seated ear level. Toe in the speakers slightly toward the center of the listening area.
-- Rear speakers 5 - 7 feet off of the floor on wall mounts (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00013BNLQ/) on each side wall 1 - 2 feet behind the listening position (e.g., 11 - 12 feet from the front wall if your listening position is 10 feet back). Point the speakers either toward each other or toward the listening area (experiment).


If there is any possiblity that you will want to get an SVS PB10-ISD subwoofer, I suggest putting in your preorder today. Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/main.html) will be publishing a review of this sub tomorrow. I expect the review will result in many orders for the PB10 causing a long waiting list. You can always cancel your preorder before shipping begins the end of this month if you find something you like better.


For speaker wire, see the DIY instructions at Audioholics (http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/DIYspeakercables.php). Instead of the single banana plugs shown, I recommend these NXG dual banana plugs (http://www.hififorless.com/showProduct.php?productid=58358) for each end which fit both Yamaha receivers and Ascend speakers. Dual banana plugs can't accidently short circuit like single ones can.