A Thread for the LaBrie Bashers

[MasterCylinder]

As I watched the new Dream Theater DVD last night I got to thinking about LaBrie and all the bashing he takes here at this board. I was wondering if these four incredibly trained highly technical musicians simply would out-shine any vocalist that fronted this band ???

My only thought was perhaps..................Ian Gillan.



As I watched, I also noticed that their stage set-up is identical to the early 70s version of Deep Purple............lead guitar on the right..........keyboard and bass on the left.

I saw Ian Gillan front Deep Purple shortly after their FIREBALL and MACHINE HEAD releases and he was probably the most talented vocalist I have seen (that I remember).

I thought of Plant or Daltry trying to front Dream Theater.............it just would not work.

LaBrie is a handful and, I'll admit, sometimes a little bit goes a long way (whats with that tongue anyway ?) but, I also know that he is a talented vocalist and I'm not certain that there is anyone out there right now that would be a better fit to front these four specific people. I think they (all 5) make an amazing collection of musical talent.

[BarryL]

As I watched the new Dream Theater DVD last night I got to thinking about LaBrie and all the bashing he takes here at this board. I was wondering if these four incredibly trained highly technical musicians simply would out-shine any vocalist that fronted this band ???

My only thought was perhaps..................Ian Gillan.



How about Geoffrey Tate of Queensryche?

The problem isn't LaBrie's ability to sing, the problem is that too often the singing isn't melodic. The band needs to slowdown sometimes and try to create something worth listening to, not just something complex and dazzling to comtemplate and expand their own talents.

That LaBrie can sing just fine is proven by his great work on the Frameshift CD.

[ForeverAutumn]

How about Geoffrey Tate of Queensryche?

The problem isn't LaBrie's ability to sing, the problem is that too often the singing isn't melodic. The band needs to slowdown sometimes and try to create something worth listening to, not just something complex and dazzling to comtemplate and expand their own talents.

That LaBrie can sing just fine is proven by his great work on the Frameshift CD.

As I've said before...I don't have a problem with LaBrie. But, if he had to be replaced... Geoffrey Tate would be an excellent choice. Queensryche is on tour right now. The second set of their show is Operation Mindcrime in it's entirety. The only Canadian date is Vancouver (tonight). :(

I think that Jeff Martin from The Tea Party would be a nice fit too.

[kexodusc]

Jeff Martin would be interesting. Though his range is a bit more limited he does add the possibility of bringin in yet another instrument to the mix. But Geoffrey Tate wouldn't work so well, as much as I love Queensryche...He's commands too much attention, whereas Dream Theater has always been a group about synergies.
Why not throw Sebastian Bach out there...he's looking for a gig these days?

LaBrie's got his faults, oversinging, etc, but he fits in really well with the guys.

As for slowing them down, I don't get into that discussion...If they did they wouldn't be DT anymore. They're immensely popular because they are one of the best bands at blending melody, harmoy, and technical complexity into intricately woven pieces. I can think of a few that can compete technically, I can't think of many though, that have more than 2 or 3 speeds who don't lose track of the song along the way. I've seen Pertrucci play solo in concert ala Steve Vai and Joe Satrianni...only then do you realize how reserved and held back he is in Dream Theater.
I've come to the conclusion that people that don't like DT, just don't like DT, and any fine tuning of these perceived deficiencies wouldn't change anything for the better for anyone.

[BarryL]

I've come to the conclusion that people that don't like DT, just don't like DT, and any fine tuning of these perceived deficiencies wouldn't change anything for the better for anyone.

That says it all, IMO. Case closed!

[Dave_G]

I would like to see the singer from Arena hook up with DT.

Actually DT is okay but I just don't really dig them that much.

Dave

[Dusty Chalk]

Well, I used to have a problem with him live, in that he couldn't perform. He couldn't stay in tune, he couldn't project the power that he did on the recordings, etc. Just find Live at the Marquee to know what I'm talking about.

But he's improved. I don't have a problem with him anymore. He's just not my favourite member of the band. Which is good, because I think any singer -- singers usually have bloated egos -- with too much ego would hamper Dream Theater. Think about it -- if he needed more spotlight time, that would mean less spotlight time for the others.

BTW, kexodusc, I agree with Barry -- them's good words.

[Troy]

I think Tom Waits would be a really good fit as the new DT singer/lyricist.

Or the lispy falsetto French guy from Air.

Or the entire vocal ensemble from The Polyphonic Spree.

Danny Elfman?

Follow where I'm going here?

Something completely different and unexpected instead of that tired old cliche screeching monkey act that LaBrie puts on. I want the band to surprise me.

[kexodusc]

I think Tom Waits would be a really good fit as the new DT singer/lyricist.

Or the lispy falsetto French guy from Air.

Or the entire vocal ensemble from The Polyphonic Spree.

Danny Elfman?

Follow where I'm going here?

Something completely different and unexpected instead of that tired old cliche screeching monkey act that LaBrie puts on. I want the band to surprise me.

Yuck...why not put Kermit on that list while you're at it.

Music isn't like dressing Mr. Potatohead. You can't just pluck favs and insert them into DT...LaBrie differentiates DT from the pack, without hogging the spotlight.

Screeching monkey? I would have accepted wailing Banshee, but screeching monkey???
That's just way off. :D

[Troy]

Yuck...why not put Kermit on that list while you're at it.

Is he available?


Music isn't like dressing Mr. Potatohead. You can't just pluck favs and insert them into DT...LaBrie differentiates DT from the pack, without hogging the spotlight.

Sadly, the music industry IS like dressing Mr. Potatohead.

To use your analogy, DT with "Mr. Creamy Cheese" is like putting the hat and face on the potato in the way it shows on the box. He's exactly what you'd expect. But we all know that Mr. Potatohead is most fun when you build him in unexpected and "wrong" ways.

The last thing LaBrie does is diferentiate DT from the pack. He's such a bland and corny choice!

What I'm saying is to NOT be so obvious.


Screeching monkey? I would have accepted wailing Banshee, but screeching monkey???
That's just way off. :D

No, screeching monkey is better for me because "whailing Banshee" sounds cool.

[kexodusc]

The last thing LaBrie does is diferentiate DT from the pack. He's such a bland and corny choice!

What I'm saying is to NOT be so obvious.
.

Okay, while not huge fan of LaBrie myself, I'll bite, just this one time.

(ahem)
Oh Great Troy - who's knowledge, taste, and wisdom in music is better and more important than the many, many fans of DT all put together - please, your majesty, explain to the naive and without-good-taste peons what "good music" that isn't "obvious" is, so that we might cast aside our "bland and corny" DT albums in favor of something you like.

And in the age of the cowboy-growl dirty rockers, false-rage metal screamers, and Brit-pop U2/RadioHead knockoffs, please point out, the plethora of other front-men that sound just like LaBrie hence making him soooo boring, unoriginal, and such a "tired old cliche"....(and explain how LaBrie is a cliche, too).

Thanks bud.

[Dave_G]

Careful.

Troy will have you listening to Zappa and Kenealy and spy movie soundtracks before you know it!

Dave

[Troy]

Okay, while not huge fan of LaBrie myself, I'll bite, just this one time.

(ahem)
Oh Great Troy - who's knowledge, taste, and wisdom in music is better and more important than the many, many fans of DT all put together - please, your majesty, explain to the naive and without-good-taste peons what "good music" that isn't "obvious" is, so that we might cast aside our "bland and corny" DT albums in favor of something you like.

And in the age of the cowboy-growl dirty rockers, false-rage metal screamers, and Brit-pop U2/RadioHead knockoffs, please point out, the plethora of other front-men that sound just like LaBrie hence making him soooo boring, unoriginal, and such a "tired old cliche"....(and explain how LaBrie is a cliche, too).

Thanks bud.

Jeez Kex, with over 1000 posts here you'd think you'd know when a guy like me is having a little fun. I figured you'd get that with the Kermit reply. Don't get all serious.

It's only an opinion, dood. Mine differs from yours. Laugh at yourself and your silly convictions over a rock band. Deal with it.

Mr. Creamy Cheese is a knock of of all the metal screamers from the 70s. Some are already mentioned in this thread eslewhere. Not just the way he sings, its the way he poses and pets his hair. His petulant sneer. The whole persona. He's so "Spinal Tap" in his rock star pretensions, I don't understand why you can't see it. The guy's a joke.

I didn't say that DT was bland and corny. (If anything, they are like eating a steady diet of chilli peppers) I said that Jimmy Cheese is bland and corny. And maybe bland is the wrong word. He's obvious.

If DT wants to be exciting and innovative, bring a singer aboard who can actually sing and not just scream and growl. Go ahead and tell me that DT wouldn't be that much more interesting if they had a singer with vocal timbres like, oh, I dunno, Ian Anderson, David Byrne or Jim Morrison. Not those guys, but those kinds of voices. That's 3 wildly different vocal styles, I know. But in each case, these voices are much more captivating, entertaining and inviting than Jimmy's. They have more character. You can ALWAYS tell when it's those guys singing. With Jimmy C, he sounds like all the other screamers from the 70s. He's not distinctive in the least.

The rest of the band is SO talented, so gifted with unique instrumental voices that the singer should also have that gift of being unique. The band deserves it.

[Troy]

Careful.

Troy will have you listening to Zappa and Kenealy and spy movie soundtracks before you know it!

Dave

Bwaaaaaa Haaaa!

The world would be a better place if more people did that.

[kexodusc]

Jeez Kex, with over 1000 posts here you'd think you'd know when a guy like me is having a little fun. I figured you'd get that with the Kermit reply. Don't get all serious..
I knew you were having fun, I think the sarcasm/humour was lost in my text...after re-reading it did seem a bit too serious....my bad...not meant to be an attack. Troy, my sincere apologies...I'm not trying to flame here, just a polite discussion!!!


It's only an opinion, dood. Mine differs from yours. Laugh at yourself and your silly convictions over a rock band. Deal with it.
That's just it, maybe it's the Canadian in me, but I'm so sick of the Gen X negative attitudes especially about music, that when I hear opinions that involve unasked for criticism, I tend to defend the target a bit. Boring, cheesy, etc...It goes without saying that when you use words to insult an artists, you indirectly offend those whose tastes appreciate the artist. Though I agree, with some of your points, LaBrie can be a little too drama queenish at times, I just don't think the make-up of DT right now could be much better. Let this take them to whatever heights await them.


Mr. Creamy Cheese is a knock of of all the metal screamers from the 70s. Some are already mentioned in this thread eslewhere. Not just the way he sings, its the way he poses and pets his hair. His petulant sneer. The whole persona. He's so "Spinal Tap" in his rock star pretensions, I don't understand why you can't see it. The guy's a joke..
Hmmm...I'll disagree with you here...I see more Styx and Queen in LaBrie than Ronnie James Dio and Judas Priest...He's only got 1/100th of the cheese that came with Spinal Tap...But there's no denying some of his influences. What I do love about LaBrie is the humility he brings, the fact he doesn't sell Attitude, and Image (okay, he's pretty, but that's just wussy vanity)...this exactly what the DT boys wanted, I think. He's there to compliment and complete, not dominate.


He's obvious...
Hmm, you'll have to explain this one to me...Other than "over-doing it" quite often, LaBries got alot of range, different paces, emotions in his singing...the last 3 albums in particular have really shown how much he's grown as a singer.
Now Steve Wilson, seems to be a bit obvious to me...but I love his stuff so it's okay.



If DT wants to be exciting and innovative, bring a singer aboard who can actually sing and not just scream and growl.
WHAT???? I'd hardly call LaBrie a screamer, or a growler....how much DT have you listened too??? Are we talking about the same guy here?


Go ahead and tell me that DT wouldn't be that much more interesting if they had a singer with vocal timbres like, oh, I dunno, Ian Anderson, David Byrne or Jim Morrison. Not those guys, but those kinds of voices. That's 3 wildly different vocal styles, I know. But in each case, these voices are much more captivating, entertaining and inviting than Jimmy's. They have more character. You can ALWAYS tell when it's those guys singing. With Jimmy C, he sounds like all the other screamers from the 70s. He's not distinctive in the least.
Ian Anderson...bah, David Byrne, eh...they wouldn't fit. Jim Morrison...much like Jeff Martin from Tea Party, would be extremely interesting. In fact, this would be a whole'nuther level of music altogether.
The problem there is Jim Morrison would dominate the spotlight and the group would then become Jim Morrison and the DT revival. That's not Dream Theater. As a singer, Morrison was more emotional, powerful, etc. LaBrie's more like an instrument. He's probably a better singer in terms of range, technical ability, etc, but he's doesn't bring the presence. That, I think, is one of the reason's DT is as popular as it is. There's alot of harmony between Rudess, Pertrucci, and LaBrie when they get going...It's not just a band playing along to the singer, or the singer following the tune.



The rest of the band is SO talented, so gifted with unique instrumental voices that the singer should also have that gift of being unique. The band deserves it.
Hmmm...I think he is unique, in that I cannot think of anyone else who sounds like him now/performs similarly right now...He's not 100% original, this might be why some don't like him, but he's good. He's as close to that retro 70's/80's Opera singer sound with a blend of Pantera/Metallica/Megadeth edge, and no alternative cheese as you can get.

Like you said, to each their own...I've read alot of your posts and you and I share a ton of musical interests....I've always loved Zappa...But I don't bash many musicians though...except Scott Stapp and Creed...now there's a man worthy of the Jimmy Cheese moniker...there's bigger fish to fry than James LaBrie.
Cheers!

[ForeverAutumn]

its the way he poses and pets his hair.

I want to pet his hair. <sigh>

;)

Me thinks that Troy's just a little jealous. :p

[Troy]

That's just it, maybe it's the Canadian in me, but I'm so sick of the Gen X negative attitudes especially about music, that when I hear opinions that involve unasked for criticism, I tend to defend the target a bit. Boring, cheesy, etc...It goes without saying that when you use words to insult an artists, you indirectly offend those whose tastes appreciate the artist. Though I agree, with some of your points, LaBrie can be a little too drama queenish at times, I just don't think the make-up of DT right now could be much better. Let this take them to whatever heights await them.

Well, I think Mastercylinder WAS asking for opinions and crit.

I never intend to insult people personally. It's that people identify with bands far too much.

And isn't being 44 a little too old to be genX?



What I do love about LaBrie is the humility he brings, the fact he doesn't sell Attitude, and Image (okay, he's pretty, but that's just wussy vanity)...this exactly what the DT boys wanted, I think. He's there to compliment and complete, not dominate.

Well, I don't know him well enough to know how much humility he has.

I think the DT boys went too safe in choosing him. Like when a middle manager hires a lesser individual to work beneath him that can't usurp his power and position. Jimmy IS the weak link.



Hmm, you'll have to explain this one to me...Other than "over-doing it" quite often, LaBries got alot of range, different paces, emotions in his singing...the last 3 albums in particular have really shown how much he's grown as a singer.
Now Steve Wilson, seems to be a bit obvious to me...but I love his stuff so it's okay.

Sure, difference of opinion, difference of taste. I'll take Wilson's Dave Gilmore vocal style of La Cheese's scream anyday.



Ian Anderson...bah, David Byrne, eh...they wouldn't fit. Jim Morrison...much like Jeff Martin from Tea Party, would be extremely interesting. In fact, this would be a whole'nuther level of music altogether.
The problem there is Jim Morrison would dominate the spotlight and the group would then become Jim Morrison and the DT revival. That's not Dream Theater.

As I said, not those guys, but a voice like theirs. The singer in Dead Can Dance also has the same sorta voice . . . without the whole BS Lizard King baggage thing.



Like you said, to each their own...I've read alot of your posts and you and I share a ton of musical interests....I've always loved Zappa...But I don't bash many musicians though...except Scott Stapp and Creed...now there's a man worthy of the Jimmy Cheese moniker...there's bigger fish to fry than James LaBrie.
Cheers!

Well, the guy's name IS a French cheese, isn't it?

Generally, I'm not much of a basher of musicians either. Mastercylinder started this thead with the notion that there really isn't anyone else out there that could replace Jimmy and I was merely stating that there are A LOT of people out there singing with other types of vocal styles (that no one has ever heard before) that would also fit DT that are much more pallatable singers to a larger audience.

Sure, there are bigger fish to fry, but MC threw the cheese in the frying pan for me. All I did was stir it!

Have fun!

[Troy]

I want to pet his hair. <sigh>

;)

Me thinks that Troy's just a little jealous. :p

LOLOL

What am I, bald now?

[Dave_G]

I tell you guys what.

I just watched some footage from a dvd by "Threshold".

The singer cat is just like LaBrie.

Mannerisms, looks, vocal sound, style, etc.

In other words, BAD.

Tee hee hee.

The ideal singer for these bands is Ian Gillan.

So there you have it.

Dave

[BarryL]

Jeez Kex, with over 1000 posts here you'd think you'd know when a guy like me is having a little fun. I figured you'd get that with the Kermit reply. Don't get all serious.

It's only an opinion, dood. Mine differs from yours. Laugh at yourself and your silly convictions over a rock band. Deal with it.



I don't know if people are getting crazy because of the election or what, but there seems to be a backlash on this board against people with opinions. Mindgonehaywire wrote a thesis against me on the SMILE thread. It might have been a Martin Luther-type moment.

Makes me feel kind of proud to get that kind of attention.

[Dusty Chalk]

So, Troy, if you enjoy the unexpected so much, how come you don't like Mars Volta (which rule, by the way)?