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J*E*Cole
10-03-2004, 04:53 PM
You'll have to excuse me, but I've been living on Mars for a couple of years and I forgot why we don't like Bose? I don't have any, I have Infinitys, but although it's been a few years, I seem to have liked at one time the sound of the 901's. So what's the buzz on Bose?

This Guy
10-03-2004, 05:10 PM
too many reasons. Do a search for it on any audio forum including this one.

chimera128
10-03-2004, 05:45 PM
hehe.. let me know if you like this one or heard of it before.. i just thought of it while sitting here at work. BOSE... Better Off Spending Elsewhere.

J*E*Cole
10-03-2004, 08:34 PM
hehe.. let me know if you like this one or heard of it before.. i just thought of it while sitting here at work. BOSE... Better Off Spending Elsewhere.

No, but that's a good one. How's this? "Botched Overpriced Speaker Enclosures."

Lensman
10-03-2004, 10:48 PM
You'll have to excuse me, but I've been living on Mars for a couple of years and I forgot why we don't like Bose? I don't have any, I have Infinitys, but although it's been a few years, I seem to have liked at one time the sound of the 901's. So what's the buzz on Bose?

During the time Bose developed the 901s, the company did have something of an emphasis on creating high-end audio. Though not everyone thought the results were worthwhile, Bose certainly introduced some innovative engineering concepts. In more recent years, however, Bose has worked to become a highly profitable company by combining aggressive marketing with extremely low production costs. This has paid off with sales that are said to routinely surpass that of their next three competitors combined and profits that allow them to open whole retail stores devoted exclusively to their product.

Unfortunately this has also produced some of the worst performing, and expensive audio systems around. I believe it was Sound and Vision magazine that once showed a frequency response graph of Bose's Acoustimass 15 system. Retailing for around $1,300, it was tested to produce 46 to 13.5Khz +/- 10.5 db! Even with the extreme fluctations well above the +/- 3 db most speaker manufacturers use, there was still a complete absence of any frequency between 200 and 280 hz., an important midbass region. As for the absence of high end between 13.5K and 20K, Bose spiked the volume up to excessive levels around 7K to give listeners the impression of an open, airy high end. Drivers for this system have been estimated to have a retail cost of about $50 based on purchasing equivalent replacements.

The level of quality and the selling price of such products cause most audiophiles great pain. The use unnatural leveling such as noted above, extensively accoustically modified rooms in stores, and improbable speaker placement such as you see on endcaps at places like Best Buy to mask performance deficits annoy them. When combined with what is seen as the use of high pressure sales tactics on consumers and the application of advertising muscle to reviewers to guarantee positive writeups for their products, Bose just pushes many audiophiles over the edge.

Lord_Magnepan
10-04-2004, 01:27 AM
No highs no lows it must be BOSE !!

How can this put a Grand Piano in my listeing room?


http://www.maggiefanclub.de/pics/bose.jpg

Answere: It cant !!!

But this can

http://www.maggiefanclub.de/pics/36.jpg

Now some may say that the middle pic is a lot more money that the top one. And your right but this (bottom) one ist 550$ a pair.....l

http://www.maggiefanclub.de/pics/mmg.jpg

And can play music a 100 times more realistic than any BOSE out there.

eisforelectronic
10-04-2004, 06:30 AM
"How can this put a Grand Piano in my listeing room? "

But they look so cute!

Lord_Magnepan
10-04-2004, 08:03 AM
:p :p :p :p

Mathew J
10-05-2004, 06:07 AM
No highs no lows it must be BOSE !!

How can this put a Grand Piano in my listeing room?


http://www.maggiefanclub.de/pics/bose.jpg

Answere: It cant !!!

But this can

http://www.maggiefanclub.de/pics/36.jpg

Now some may say that the middle pic is a lot more money that the top one. And your right but this (bottom) one ist 550$ a pair.....l

http://www.maggiefanclub.de/pics/mmg.jpg

And can play music a 100 times more realistic than any BOSE out there.

Honestly to compare the two lower ones to the bose system is laughable....the other two are huge by comparison and personally I wouldn't want nor consider either in any room I had as they are horrible in appearance, call me a non audiophile if you like but facts are facts and personally I would hate looking at that crap every day if I had it....

Now if you want to compare like with like then that is find, personally I like the Canton movie series alot as well as the Energy speakers...but what you posted is boarderline laughable.

Resident Loser
10-05-2004, 07:14 AM
...you won't need the rough-hewn granite slabs...or the two or three analog TTs on their own sorbothane, space-pod feet...or the extension on your home to house any of the other assorted "audiophile" approved whatchamacallits guaranteed to provoke "ooohs" and "ahhhs" you so crave as an elitist, golden-eared wunderkind...

All ya gotsta do is plug it in and enjoy...of course that is predicated by you liking the sound produced by Bose...if you do, tell 'em to stick it where the sun don't shine...it's your cash...

Yeah, it's expensive...somebody has to pay for the R&D, and advertising...also consider what exactly comprises value...WAF is a big part as is unobtrusiveness and ease of installation...it all costs, probably more than it should, but remember it's market driven...

Polks used to be the darling of the audio-types till Matthew "sold-out" and went mainstream with ads and all...fickle lot dem audiopiles...

And since the whole hi-fi/audio concept is illusory, if you want a grand piano in your living room, buy one and take lessons...all playback is at best an approximation, you can't fit a full symphony orchestra between two speakers and even a solo piano would require well-recorded studio masters, done with careful attention to the required cues that would fool your ears into thinking, hot d@mn, it's a pianey!

jimHJJ(...just an observation...)

Lord_Magnepan
10-05-2004, 04:37 PM
To each there own.

E-Stat
10-06-2004, 04:32 AM
...and I forgot why we don't like Bose?
They are the Chevrolet Cavaliers of the speaker world. Decent performance good enough for the masses. Not bad, just not what creates much enthusiasm for music lovers. I had a Bose system in my last Acura and it was OK.

rw

hifimaster
10-06-2004, 04:57 AM
And since the whole hi-fi/audio concept is illusory, if you want a grand piano in your living room, buy one and take lessons...all playback is at best an approximation, you can't fit a full symphony orchestra between two speakers and even a solo piano would require well-recorded studio masters, done with careful attention to the required cues that would fool your ears into thinking, hot d@mn, it's a pianey!

jimHJJ(...just an observation...)


Something gives me the impression you have never heard an actual high-end setup.

chimera128
10-06-2004, 10:48 AM
I like the look of the magnepans also, although the larger one's were just .. too large for me. I'd rather have a $2300 magnepan setup than a $2300 bose lifestyle system anyday. Although when I had $2300 I didn't buy either ;).

Resident Loser
10-07-2004, 07:17 AM
"...Something gives me the impression you have never heard an actual high-end setup..."

jimHJJ(...I stand by my statement...)

Garrardman
10-12-2004, 12:27 AM
Hey Lord Magnepan,

Where exactly are the speakers in your setup as i can't seem to see them in the picture? Are they camouflaged behind those big wooden-framed shower curtains??

:D

Adam.

Lord_Magnepan
10-12-2004, 12:39 AM
I will not even discuss the difference between your speakers (no matter what they are) and my 3.6s. I would compare my 3.6s up to a Avalon Eidolon for 130k anyday, and win with ease. :p

PS: All you people who talk trash, dont even have the knowledge or the cash to buy true High End. Properbly hiding behind some cheap B&W 700 series :rolleyes: <---Yea right you wish!!! You wish you were hiding behind that, but nooooo you hide behind the biggest trash right after BOSE. ---- Bang and Olufsen. :eek:

Dont even talk crap to me buddy

Garrardman
10-13-2004, 03:45 AM
Lord M,

Calm down there - the big grinning smiley face at the end of my post signifies a JOKE.

I have heard Magneplanars on many occasions and agree they have some superb aspects to their sound. However, it's quite easy to get a large soundstage (the grand piano you mentioned earlier) when the speakers you have are twice the size of the piano in question, less easy when the speakers are a sensible size.

Funnily enough, the ones i've heard recently that do it best were made by those well known purveyors of trash - Bang & Olufsen, cost 10000 and have been hailed as "reinventing the loudspeaker" by magazines that specialise in the sort of stuff that the poor impecunious loudspeaker designer like me has no chance of affording.
Still, i'm sure you know best when you say that thay are rubbish - obviously knowledge comes with money and i never realised this.

I'll make you a deal - you chill out a bit and i won't direct any more jokes towards you, as they are clearly wasted.

Adam.

Lord_Magnepan
10-13-2004, 01:18 PM
Well i would have understood it if it would be a little more obvious. I am very calm actually, as i have wasted my time in other hifi forums already. I have listend to B&O BOSE, Avalon B&W Dynaudio etc.. before and cant find anything about them. My orchestra is a lot bigger than my Maggie and your B&O (the one you heard) for sure ;)

Besides if it is reviews your looking at, than the MG 20.1 3.6 20R is regarded as the best loudspeaker in the world Period.

But to each there own.

Sorry i acted to harshly, i just get pissed very fast when some n00bies who never even heard a planar talks trash and priases some marketing company.

PAT.P
10-13-2004, 09:06 PM
Well i would have understood it if it would be a little more obvious. I am very calm actually, as i have wasted my time in other hifi forums already. I have listend to B&O BOSE, Avalon B&W Dynaudio etc.. before and cant find anything about them. My orchestra is a lot bigger than my Maggie and your B&O (the one you heard) for sure ;)

Besides if it is reviews your looking at, than the MG 20.1 3.6 20R is regarded as the best loudspeaker in the world Period.

But to each there own.

Sorry i acted to harshly, i just get pissed very fast when some n00bies who never even heard a planar talks trash and priases some marketing company.
BOSE SPEAKER ARE OVERRATED AND SO ARE MANY MORE! I HAVE ENERGY /AXIOM /DAHLQUIST /PARADIGM / BRAUN / ECT .ECT ! YOU AUDITION A FEW AND BUY WHAT YOUR EARS CAN TOLARATE! CANT ALL HAVE SAME TASTE ! ****IF WE DEED THIS SITE WOULD' NT EXIST**** PAT.P :)

E-Stat
10-14-2004, 05:04 AM
Besides if it is reviews your looking at, than the MG 20.1 3.6 20R is regarded as the best loudspeaker in the world Period.
Well, they certainly are excellent but let's not go overboard. Don't get me wrong - I've been a planar fan ever since hearing a pair of Tympani I-Us back in '74. Not long after I purchased a pair of MG-IIs and eventually moved to Acoustat full range electrostats.

I heard a very nicely driven pair of MG 20.1s (Burmester 001, Joule Electra Rite of Passage, Valhalla), and found them superb. There is, however, some formidable competition when one speaks of the best. In the next room of the reviewer's house where I heard the 20.1s was an even more nicely driven pair of Alon Grand Exoticas. Talk about image size - the Alons make the walls disappear.

BTW, that reviewer now uses the 20.1s in an HT setup with 3.6s in the rear. With a new Barco projector, that is probably one sweet home theater arrangement. :)

rw

Lord_Magnepan
10-14-2004, 05:10 AM
That is definetly a very nice HT :p Maggies and other Planars are highly critical to the sources and the rooms. There are many that consider the 20.1 to be the best speaker period. But it all depends on personal taste, room, and budget.


Cheers

PS: But you do agree that noone can compare a Quad, Magnepan, Martin Logan or other Elektro/Magneto static speaker to products from B&O or BOSE ? Thats like comparing a Avalon Eidolon Diamond or Kharma to BOSE B&O and Sony

The "Alon Grand Exoticas" cost over 120000$ too, so the 20.1(9K) or the 3.6(6K) ist one heck of a sweet deal. ;) Not that i would choose a box over a planar, but....

You mean these? http://www.theabsolutesound.com/newsletter/5_14_2003/images/hpsworkshop/edit/alon_exotica.jpg

E-Stat
10-14-2004, 05:35 AM
But you do agree that noone can compare a Quad, Magnepan, Martin Logan or other Elektro/Magneto static speaker to products from B&O or BOSE ?
Ja !


The "Alon Grand Exoticas" cost over 120000$ too, so the 20.1(9K) or the 3.6(6K) ist one heck of a sweet deal. ;) Not that i would choose a box over a planar, but....
Actually the pricing of the 20.1s is closer to $12k US. As for the Alon's (now called Nola), they are not really boxes. Note the "grillcloth" on the sides of the main towers. Only the top and bottom sections are sealed. The middle section is open. As is their glorious sound.


You mean these?
Yep.

rw

Lord_Magnepan
10-14-2004, 05:40 AM
Well not that i could afford a 120000$ speaker, but it sure interest me. I will be on holiday for the next 3 month in north carolina. How can i find out, where one can hear such a special speaker?

E-Stat
10-14-2004, 06:13 AM
Well not that i could afford a 120000$ speaker, but it sure interest me. I will be on holiday for the next 3 month in north carolina. How can i find out, where one can hear such a special speaker?
Good question. I heard them in NY.

Here is a better shot illustrating their "open baffle" design:

<img src="http://www.nolaspeakers.com/products/gifs/exoticagr_4view.jpg">

rw

Lord_Magnepan
10-14-2004, 06:16 AM
Quite interesting. Look similar to Infinitys (good days) EMIT tweeters. Its a close design to Infinitys IRS systems. Maybe i get lucky one day and hear them. :p But then again, i dont miss a thing from my 3.6s ;) Ill post pictures tonight if i can find the stupid cable for my digi cam.

E-Stat
10-14-2004, 07:19 AM
Quite interesting. Look similar to Infinitys (good days) EMIT tweeters. Its a close design to Infinitys IRS systems.
Twenty years ago, the same reviewer had the IRS system. While similar in configuration, I found them to have a weakness in the midbass - the transition from the midrange ribbons to the servo woofer towers was too great.


But then again, i dont miss a thing from my 3.6s ;)
Agreed. The ribbon tweeters on the 3.6 and 20.1s are wonderful. The 20s just do a bit better on the low end.

rw

Lord_Magnepan
10-14-2004, 07:25 AM
Yeah the 20s,3.6s are really nice. But they do need a large room(especially the 20s) to sound their best. I will go the Active route with my 3.6s to extend it to 25Hz, sooner or later.

E-Stat
10-14-2004, 07:56 AM
Yeah the 20s,3.6s are really nice. But they do need a large room(especially the 20s) to sound their best. I will go the Active route with my 3.6s to extend it to 25Hz, sooner or later.
If by the active route, you mean subwoofers, I will offer my thoughts. First, I find the bass of the 20.1's qualitatively better than the Alons so long as we're not trying to reproduce 16 hz organ pedals. Although I have not heard the big Soundlabs electrostats, the 20.1s bass is the best I've heard from any planar. I used subwoofers in my system for a while and later moved them to the HT system. That necessitated getting higher power amps, but similarly I find the qualitative results better. There is a fun cut in the soundtrack from the latest Harry Potter movie called "Double Trouble". It is a chorus of kids singing lyrics from Shakespeare's Macbeth. There is a wonderful concert drum in the piece that really shows off the bass capability of a speaker - not only for the range, but for the timbre and harmonics as well. It has been my experience that with the best planars, you can not only hear the fundamentals but the "skin" of the drum as well.

Coincidentally, I just found a larger pair of Acoustats than mine for sale on ebay - and the seller is but 10 minutes away from my house. I'm heading there later today to give them an audition. The Spectra 66s are capable of pretty darn good bass. :)

<img src="http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/95/72/68_1_b.JPG">

rw

Lord_Magnepan
10-14-2004, 08:25 AM
Very neat, i mean by "active", to use a active crossover and use different AMPs for the bass and trebble section. I will aim for Pathos InPower Monos.

Cheers