Any differences between Canadian and American Rock?

[Smokey]

To tell the truth, I really don't know.

One might argue that groups like Rush might be a good example of Canadian "flavor" and sound, but the counter argument is that rockers like Neil Young or majority members of The Band are from Canada also, but their sound is as American as apple pie.

It seem to be too much gray area here :)

[Hyfi]

To tell the truth, I really don't know.

One might argue that groups like Rush might be a good example of Canadian "flavor" and sound, but the counter argument is that rockers like Neil Young or majority members of The Band are from Canada also, but their sound is as American as apple pie.

It seem to be too much gray area here :)


The guysin Canada all sing in a higher octave than the yanks. Only thing I can think of.

[-Jar-]

there's something going on..

there's a difference.

I can't put my finger on it.

But.. there's a difference.

All those Canadian bands that just can't quite crack the BIG TIME down here.. yet, up there, they're huge.. and I hope I'm not offending anyone, but.. there's got to be some kind of Nationalism thing going on.. because there are some bands that make me scratch my head..they're just not that amazing... though I gotta hand it to the Barenaked Ladies.. good for them..there's a quality, original band (even though they're normally not my cuppa) that deserves every ounce of fame they can get their chubby hands on.. but take, for instance.. The Tragically Hip or Triumph. it's like, they're good, but just on the vanilla side that doesn't quite catch fire. It's like, take Michael Stanley in Cleveland.. people here think he's god. But outside of Cleveland, no one gives a rat's ass.. kind of like people outside of Pittsburgh really don't give a hoot about Donny Iris.

But again, they got that whole post-rock scene going on in Toronto that's great. So maybe I'm just full of hot gas. Afterall, they did give us Loverboy! :D

-jar

[ForeverAutumn]

The guysin Canada all sing in a higher octave than the yanks. Only thing I can think of.

Ya think so? Heard The Tea Party lately? Jeff Martin's voice would put hair on your chest. :p

[ForeverAutumn]

All those Canadian bands that just can't quite crack the BIG TIME down here.. yet, up there, they're huge.. and I hope I'm not offending anyone, but.. there's got to be some kind of Nationalism thing going on.-jar

Right-o you are Jar. The Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) regulates Canadian Radio and TV. One of the CRTC's mandates is to ensure that a certain per cent of all Canadian Radio and Television broadcasts are Canadian.

Commercial radio stations must ensure that 35% of the musical selections they air between 6AM and 6PM, Monday through Friday, are Canadian.

To qualify as 'Canadian content' a musical selection must generally fulfill at least two of the following conditions:
M (music) -- the music is composed entirely by a Canadian.
A (artist) -- the music is, or the lyrics are, performed principally by a Canadian.
P (production) -- the musical selection consists of a live performance that is

(i) recorded wholly in Canada, or
(ii) performed wholly in Canada and broadcast live in Canada.

L (lyrics) -- the lyrics are written entirely by a Canadian.

This gives many Canadian bands the opportunity to get some rather large exposure in Canada. Exposure that they may not otherwise receive if they had to rely on programmers who may be working in the US for US companies owning Canadian radio stations. So, naturally you are going to have some Canadian bands be successful in Canada while never getting any exposure in the US.

Conversely, there are lots of US bands that are talked about around here, that never release CDs in Canada. In fact, I've just had to ask one of the members of this board if I can order some items from Amazon.com and borrow his address for delivery so that I can get free shipping and don't have to pay their ridiculous international shipping charges. I'll then repay him for the "normal" cost of mailing them to me.

When I look at the CDs that I've purchased in the last 12 months that have become favourites, a large per cent of them are Canadian.

Three Days Grace
Nickelback
Pilate
Finger Eleven
Thornley
The Trews
Sam Roberts
Colin James
The Tea Party

I don't think that any of these bands have a unique Canadian sound. I just think that there are soooo many bands, that it's hard for a Canadian act to break through over the border. In fact, Canada has been criticized by many musicians because they can't achieve the same level of success and earning potential in Canada that they can in the US. Bands are forced to export themselves if they want any kind of international fame. I'm not sure of the reasons for that. It's just the way it is.

Barenaked Ladies are a good example of that. They had some success in Canada, but they really didn't reach stardom here, until they began getting US exposure. Brian Adams was the same. Blue Rodeo, the same. Shania Twain...yep. Celine Dion...I could go on and on. All of these musicians now live outside of Canada. The one exception to this that I can think of are Rush. Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson still live in Toronto. Neil Peart now lives in Quebec, but he's still in Canada (sort of ;) ).

We have the same issue with television and movie stars. Mike Myers; Jim Carrey; Donald and Keifer Sutherland; all Canadian, all now living and working in the US.

Audiobill or BarryL may have more to add on this subject. It's an interesting question that Smokey asked.

P.S. The statements in italics are direct quotes from the CRTC web site. For more info, click here.... http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/welcome.htm

[-Jar-]

Right-o you are Jar. The Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) regulates Canadian Radio and TV. One of the CRTC's mandates is to ensure that a certain per cent of all Canadian Radio and Television broadcasts are Canadian.



I know that this is the case up there in Canada.. but I guess I was talking about something different, maybe it's related to exposure, maybe not. I guess I was talking more about Canadian "pride" - maybe that's a direct result of the laws up there.. but still, like I said, people in Cleveland like the Michael Stanley Band because they're home-town boys. Just like people love their crappy sports teams (we're used to that here) because they're from the home-town. I loved my home town indie bands back in my club-goin' days. There's got to be some of that going on when some bands sell out up there but don't make much of a dent down here. I'm not sure if all the exposure in the world would get American audiences to listen to some of those bands.. though I'm sure it would work with others.

-jar

[Smokey]

Interesting responses so far. Thanks.

I guess American or Canadian music perspective will be viewed differently form each side of the border For example, the majority of Canadian bands mention in this post i have never heard of, except those that have made it big in USA such Bryan Adams or Bare naked ladys (and lets not forget Lover Boy mentioned by Jar :D).

The Canadian law ForeverAutumn mentioned that "mandates a certain per cent of all Canadian Radio and Television broadcasts are Canadian"..is an interesting one. I don't think such a law (USA version) exist, or can exist in USA. I guess in Canada, they also have their own version of Top Forty or Top Sale record list.

Sonically, it might still be challenge to guess if a group is from a Canada or not :confused:

[RGA]

Well I can't speak to some of those other Canadian bands unless I like them I don't really look into them.

The Barenaked Ladies have a certain Canadian humour that may go over ok in northern US states - but perhaps not so well in Alabama.

KD Lang's lates album is almost a tribute to Canada called "Hyms of the 49th Parallel"

Dianna Krall's Latest Album's last track called "Departure Bay" which is the road I live on and she still lives in this city. And the Dairy Queen is still there.

Sarah McLachlan often sings about her life - well her life is in Vancouver and she still lives here. Pretty sure she does well in the States and if not she should be. :D

Celine Dion - well they threw a pile of money at her and Vegas is a different kind of animal. She used to release several Frecnh Canadian discs which probably don't even do well much west than Ontario.

It seems Canadian Females do better in the US for some reason maybe as a percentage??? Shania is hugely popular.

We have other Females and artists that probably won;t make the crossover like Loreena McKennit who has a supurb voice but she sings Eastern/Maritime Canadian Folk music and instrumental dance groups like Leahy would have a tough time I would think.

I think Wide Mouth Mason, Jann Arden, Tal Bachman(Bachman Turner Overdrive), Blue Rodeo, Natalie MacMaster, Amanda Marshal, Kim Mitchel, Moev, The Moffatts, Moist, Alanis Morrisette, Lee Aaron, Loverboy, Nelly Furtado, Glass Tiger, Mathew Good Band, Grapes of Wrath, 54-40, Age of Electric, April Wine, Bass is Base, Barney Bentall, Big Sugar, Arlene Bishop, Jim Byrnes, Chilliwak, Tom Cochrane, Leonard Cohen, Holly Cole, Stompin' Tom Conners, Cowboy Junkies, Crash Test Dummies, Burton Cummings, Delirium, D.O.A., EarthTONES, Lara Fabian, Gowan, The Guess Who, Haywire, The Headstones, The Jeff Healy Band, Helix, Honeymoon Suite, Jigsaw, The KillJoys, Chantal Kreviazuk, Gordon Lightfoot, Luba, Rita MacNeil, Max Webster, Men Without Hats, Joni Mitchell, Anne Murray, Bif Naked, Nickleback, The Northern Pikes, Odds, Our Lady Peace, Platinum Blonde, Prairie Oyster, The Pursuit Of Happiness, Red Rider, Revlover, Rush, Jane Siberry, Sinkhole, Amy Sky, Sloan, Solemn Oath, Spirit Of The West, Spunky Munkey, Squirm, Steppenwolf, The Tea Party, Triumph, Trooper, Gino Vannelli,Wild Strawberries, Michelle Wright, Neil Young.

Ohh yeah and Avril Levigne. Most must have done ok down there??

[Stone]

I think Wide Mouth Mason, Jann Arden, Tal Bachman(Bachman Turner Overdrive), Blue Rodeo, Natalie MacMaster, Amanda Marshal, Kim Mitchel, Moev, The Moffatts, Moist, Alanis Morrisette, Lee Aaron, Loverboy, Nelly Furtado, Glass Tiger, Mathew Good Band, Grapes of Wrath, 54-40, Age of Electric, April Wine, Bass is Base, Barney Bentall, Big Sugar, Arlene Bishop, Jim Byrnes, Chilliwak, Tom Cochrane, Leonard Cohen, Holly Cole, Stompin' Tom Conners, Cowboy Junkies, Crash Test Dummies, Burton Cummings, Delirium, D.O.A., EarthTONES, Lara Fabian, Gowan, The Guess Who, Haywire, The Headstones, The Jeff Healy Band, Helix, Honeymoon Suite, Jigsaw, The KillJoys, Chantal Kreviazuk, Gordon Lightfoot, Luba, Rita MacNeil, Max Webster, Men Without Hats, Joni Mitchell, Anne Murray, Bif Naked, Nickleback, The Northern Pikes, Odds, Our Lady Peace, Platinum Blonde, Prairie Oyster, The Pursuit Of Happiness, Red Rider, Revlover, Rush, Jane Siberry, Sinkhole, Amy Sky, Sloan, Solemn Oath, Spirit Of The West, Spunky Munkey, Squirm, Steppenwolf, The Tea Party, Triumph, Trooper, Gino Vannelli,Wild Strawberries, Michelle Wright, Neil Young.

Ohh yeah and Avril Levigne. Most must have done ok down there??

Most of these artists have never made a splash in the U.S., except on a very limited basis or as an indie/underground artist. 99% of people have no idea one of Hootie's hits was a 54-40 song. There are some very good and great artists on that list though. But as for Platinum Blonde, the U.S. is better of without 'em, if you ask me.

For some other Canadian artists, check out NoMeansNo, Broken Social Scene, among others.

Stone

P.S. Are the Wild Strawberries popular in Canada?

[Dusty Chalk]

Some of those bands I had no idea were Canadian, but I suspected something was ...different... about them (Jane Siberry comes to mind). P'raps it's just...y'all talk funny, eh?

I can't believe no-one's mentioned Vancouver, Skinny Puppy, and Front Line Assembly. There's a pretty cool scene over there, too.

I think that CRTC thing has a lot to do with it. You'd be surprised just how important exposure is.

[kexodusc]

As a son of both the USA and Canada, with dual-citizenship and all the internal conflicts that come with it, I think I can contribute a few points to ponder to this thread.

First, my experience is that the CRTC's effect on the music scene does little more than provide exposure for small Canadian groups. Truth of the matter is, the Canadian rock groups that seem to hit it big are not all the rage here in Canada. Most people I know don't buy Alannis Morrissette or Avril albums. I think the CRTC's effect is both a good and bad thing for a number of political reasons I won't get into here...the good Canadian rock bands don't reap much benefit of radio-play from these rules. What you see are the really popular groups on the world stage (ie: Avril, Celine, Alannis, Barenaked Ladies, etc,) get all of the air time to meet the quotas, while the marginal groups still struggle for air-time.

Second, there's 10 times as much top 40 alternative crap-rock in the USA as there is in Canada and since it's local, they seem to get more attention than the Canadian groups do in the US. This allows crappy bands to make it big in the US. My point here is, I don't think one nation is necessarily better at producing artists per capita, but that you have to be really, really good (to mainstream USA) to be a non-American artist and make it big in the US, whereas mediocre groups in the US have more opportunity to thrive.

The Tragically Hip phenomenon doesn't really tell us much. I've spent more than half of my life in the northern states, and the Hip are fairly well received there. They live off their reputation to put out ok albums and play excellent shows. I've seen U2 twice and the Tragically Hip 5 times (never in Canada, though) and there are few groups I can honestly say put on a better show than U2 (even though I'm not a huge fan)...the Hip are one of them. I don't think there's much Canadianna pride contributing to their success north of the border...instead they're just exposed and given enough opportunity to deliver the goods. The Hip play in tons of smaller cities in Canada that don't draw huge American acts, this has helped them far more than being Canadian in my opinion. They're sort of the Dave Matthew's Band of the North, I guess. They're original, yet not revolutionary by any means. They don't follow any trends and don't really have any compromises in their music. You either dig them, or you don't, and the Hip don't care. I wish more bands shared this philosophy.

Longevity seems to be better for Canadian rock bands. Not many Canadian bands will form, sell 20 million albums ala Creed, and disband in 6 years. They seem to stick around forever enjoying small, but consistent success.

Canadian bands seem to be more "sincere" in their music. By this I mean they use influences without stealing from them. There's less copy-cat musicians from Canada for the most part, probably because they'd never survive in Canada long enough to make it to the US. I also feel that Canadian groups seem to be more down-to-earth, real people than alot of US rock stars.

Most Canadians I know will like an artist first, then be proud they're Canadian second. I've never met any Canadian that has a preference for home-grown artists because they're Canadian.

Finally, every country has its good, bad, and ugly. I don't hold anything against Canada for Bryan Adams, nor do I hold anything against the USA for Micheal Bolton. But I think everyone will agree Bolton has (well...had) prettier hair, but Adams could kick his butt in a bar fight.

I think Canada does quite well at producing musicians...I can't think of nearly as many great Australian acts as I can Canadian...I'm sure exposure and proximity has a lot to do with this.

[audiobill]

I think today that, for the most part, the American/Canadian music line is blurred. To put it succinctly -- the music is "north" American.

The glass ceiling that used to exist, whereby Canadian musicians simply could not break is no longer. The girls, as so aptly outlined above, are "world famous": shania, alanis, avril, celine, et al have all dominated "the charts" for several years, at one time recently or another. As for the the Hip, they refuse to pander to the commercial side of things: severe Canadiana references are not altered for more radio play, south (except, ironically enough, for their earlier album "new orleans is sinking" and I don't want to swim). They don't want to swim south.

I, and I'm sure others, can remember growing up during a time when only names like Gordon Lightfoot and Ann Murray were the artists who made it "big". Indeed, we in Canada were relegated to the folky side of "made". That, of course, now is no longer the case.

Arcade Fire's - Funeral - is on the cusp of "alternative" post-modernism and David Letterman's sidekick Paul is, well........., established -- part of the new/old boys' league.

Just words,
audiobill (good thread, btw)

[BarryL]

BarryL may have more to add on this subject. [/url]


I'm not sure that much on the radio counts as Rock anymore, so let's just stick to mainstream radio: I think that as a general stereotype, Canadian songwriters are more articulate than American songwriters. Of course this is a broad generalization, but a song consists of both music and lyrics. I think Canadians do a better job at getting this than Americans, with the lyric writing being slightly more articulate and refined. Clearly, Alanis Morisette is the exception to the rule.

[kexodusc]

I'm not sure that much on the radio counts as Rock anymore, so let's just stick to mainstream radio: I think that as a general stereotype, Canadian songwriters are more articulate than American songwriters. Of course this is a broad generalization, but a song consists of both music and lyrics. I think Canadians do a better job at getting this than Americans, with the lyric writing being slightly more articulate and refined. Clearly, Alanis Morisette is the exception to the rule.
I definitely agree witht he first sentence...Radio rock isn't at it's strongest right now, and much of what makes the airwaves these days tends to be more pop oriented than rock...but where does the line get drawn between those two?

I don't think I necesarily agree with the point about Canadian songwriters being a bit more articluate, I suppose they might be right now, but there are far more American radio friendly musicians with half decent lyrics than Canadian...maybe on a per capita basis Canadians are better?

It comes and goes either way, certainly the 80's wasn't the highpoint of Canadian music...as much as Glass Tiger, Corey Hart, and Gowan dominated the charts.

[ForeverAutumn]

I think Wide Mouth Mason, Jann Arden, Tal Bachman(Bachman Turner Overdrive), Blue Rodeo, Natalie MacMaster, Amanda Marshal, Kim Mitchel, Moev, The Moffatts, Moist, Alanis Morrisette, Lee Aaron, Loverboy, Nelly Furtado, Glass Tiger, Mathew Good Band, Grapes of Wrath, 54-40, Age of Electric, April Wine, Bass is Base, Barney Bentall, Big Sugar, Arlene Bishop, Jim Byrnes, Chilliwak, Tom Cochrane, Leonard Cohen, Holly Cole, Stompin' Tom Conners, Cowboy Junkies, Crash Test Dummies, Burton Cummings, Delirium, D.O.A., EarthTONES, Lara Fabian, Gowan, The Guess Who, Haywire, The Headstones, The Jeff Healy Band, Helix, Honeymoon Suite, Jigsaw, The KillJoys, Chantal Kreviazuk, Gordon Lightfoot, Luba, Rita MacNeil, Max Webster, Men Without Hats, Joni Mitchell, Anne Murray, Bif Naked, Nickleback, The Northern Pikes, Odds, Our Lady Peace, Platinum Blonde, Prairie Oyster, The Pursuit Of Happiness, Red Rider, Revlover, Rush, Jane Siberry, Sinkhole, Amy Sky, Sloan, Solemn Oath, Spirit Of The West, Spunky Munkey, Squirm, Steppenwolf, The Tea Party, Triumph, Trooper, Gino Vannelli,Wild Strawberries, Michelle Wright, Neil Young.

Ohh yeah and Avril Levigne. Most must have done ok down there??

Jann Arden made a documentary of a trip down to New York to promote her music. She can sell out four consecutive nights in Toronto, but couldn't fill a small bar in New York City. She put out her guitar case and played in Central Park until the cops kicked her out. No-one had a clue who she was as they casually walked by and threw coins in her case. If she tried that here, she'd be mobbed! It was a very eye-opening view of how little US exposure she's had and how difficult it is to break into the US music scene, even for someone who has had enormous success in Canada.

I have introduced Wide Mouth Mason; Jann Arden; Amanda Marshall; and Chantal Kreviazuk to various people on this board who had never heard of them. I've done two all Canadian comps where only a couple of people that the comps went out to had heard of a couple of acts on the comps. The bands that you have mentioned above may be getting lots of exposure in Canada, but my experience that that very few Americans will have heard of more than a handful of them.

Heck, even the DVD of the Rolling Stones SARS concert in Toronto in 2003 was edited for US release. The US version was one DVD without the Canadian acts. The Canadian version was TWO DVDs with the Canadian acts. What's up with that?!

[RGA]

Wow I'm surprised by Jann Arden - I'm not her biggest fan myself I just listed a lot of names I know. But she is certainly a superior talent to most of the dreck on the airwaves. I mean hell she's done a duet with Jackson Browne who isn't small potatos and I'm sure she has some other prominant names on the list of collaborations.

What about Loreena McKennit - Celtic. She should be doing well on the female vocals side of things but i bet they don't get her down there.

I picked up a freee cd sampler at A&B Sound. the sampler is sent from the U.S and was a jazz sampler. Anyway I liked a song from Angela McCluskey and Keri Noble. So I wanted to check out their albums. A&B Sound doesn't carry them so I though maybe they can't break into our market as well - I think they're on the Manhatten label. I thought it odd to have a cd sampler and then not carry the albums.

Jann Arden of course has the disadvantage of appearance and a rather unique voice.

I don't mind Bryan Adams or that kind of shmultze rock - he's Rod Stewart-ISH.

I don't really listen to music for an uneducated musicians take on world politics summed up in a few stanzas of poetry to song - which is not to say I won't like that music because i like Jackson Browne who does exactly this - but I like the singer and the accompanyment and then the lyrics in third place. Which is why I like a wide array of music. For instance Rap has some lucid social commentary but I generally(with few exceptions) don't "like" the sound of screeching turntables, monotonous deepish bass and or the rythms.

And i generlaly don't like any musician I need to read the liner notes to understand what he/se is actually saying. I expect at the very least the singer can annunciate their words.

I have no problem with love lost songs to music - With the divorce rate as high as it is - why not have most of the music out there about it?

Of course one band I can think of off hand is the Beautiful South who I enjoy because I like their strange way they have.

[kexodusc]

And i generlaly don't like any musician I need to read the liner notes to understand what he/se is actually saying. I expect at the very least the singer can annunciate their words.


Apparently spelling in the liner notes isn't as important to you as a singer's ability to "enunciate". :D
(sorry RGA)

[RGA]

You know i even typed in my version of the word in word to be sure - it is a word with a religious connotation and not the word in this context. Sad that when i first spelled it as ennunciate - MS Word didn't help me so I tried it with an A.

The word Annunciate was an annunciation by Gabriel to Mary that she would be the mother of Christ.

Of course if singers could actually enunciate properly we would not need to read the lyrics - one reason why the Beatles are so good and the Stones are so horrible.

[kexodusc]

You know i even typed in my version of the word in word to be sure - it is a word with a religious connotation and not the word in this context. Sad that when i first spelled it as ennunciate - MS Word didn't help me so I tried it with an A.

The word Annunciate was an annunciation by Gabriel to Mary that she would be the mother of Christ.

Of course if singers could actually enunciate properly we would not need to read the lyrics - one reason why the Beatles are so good and the Stones are so horrible.

I figued you pulled that from Word...that's cool, bouncing back and forth between Canada and the US, I can never get "color" and "colour" consistent...neighbour/neighbor etc...

Interestingly enough, my current employer is quite tolerant when I continue to spell the accepted US way, but my American employers were all quick to tell me which was the ONLY WAY to spell "color".

Fortunately, we spell F-U the same on either side of the border.

[RGA]

When in doubt pick the English version - since they invented the language - more or less. Thus it is Colour and it is Cheque not the bastardized lazy versions.

Check and Cheque makes sense because you cash a cheque and you check on your kids. When you have one word do both then you are always looking for the context. Of course France has had a major influence on the language.

My Canadian university does not care which way you spell Colour so long as you are consistant all the way through your paper - and for those students who need to fill up space - pick the Canadian version as filler. :)

[Smokey]

I think Wide Mouth Mason, Jann Arden, Tal Bachman(Bachman Turner Overdrive), Blue Rodeo, Natalie MacMaster, Amanda Marshal, Kim Mitchel, Moev, The Moffatts, Moist, Alanis Morrisette, Lee Aaron, Loverboy, Nelly Furtado, Glass Tiger, Mathew Good Band, Grapes of Wrath, 54-40, Age of Electric, April Wine, Bass is Base, Barney Bentall, Big Sugar, Arlene Bishop, Jim Byrnes, Chilliwak, Tom Cochrane, Leonard Cohen, Holly Cole, Stompin' Tom Conners, Cowboy Junkies, Crash Test Dummies, Burton Cummings, Delirium, D.O.A., EarthTONES, Lara Fabian, Gowan, The Guess Who, Haywire, The Headstones, The Jeff Healy Band, Helix, Honeymoon Suite, Jigsaw, The KillJoys, Chantal Kreviazuk, Gordon Lightfoot, Luba, Rita MacNeil, Max Webster, Men Without Hats, Joni Mitchell, Anne Murray, Bif Naked, Nickleback, The Northern Pikes, Odds, Our Lady Peace, Platinum Blonde, Prairie Oyster, The Pursuit Of Happiness, Red Rider, Revlover, Rush, Jane Siberry, Sinkhole, Amy Sky, Sloan, Solemn Oath, Spirit Of The West, Spunky Munkey, Squirm, Steppenwolf, The Tea Party, Triumph, Trooper, Gino Vannelli,Wild Strawberries, Michelle Wright, Neil Young.

Are those groups mentioned all play Rock, or is that from every gener since I see Anne Murray name?

By the way, you all can have Celine Dion back :D

[kexodusc]

By the way, you all can have Celine Dion back :D

Hey now, Vegas paid alot of money for her...she's stuck there. Why d'ya think I left the US again, for my new job???
It's just like beer, Smokey, you don't think Canadians would export their BEST stuff, do you? They keep that stuff for themselves.