WTH is a Gain Cell???

[topspeed]

PS Audio has just introduced a "revolutionary" new product called a Gain Cell. It now inhabits every amp, integrated, and pre that they build and summarily replaced their entire HCA2 and PCA line of products (now I know why AudioAdvisor had those combo deals). You can read about it here:
http://psaudio.com/newsletters/9-04.asp

A Question for you engineers out there (if any still inhabit the board); what is this thing in plain english? The spec's are, for the most part, latin to me. Are they good? Great? Revolutionary? Is a damping factor in the 1000's that important? While I'm sure there is some frippery thrown in, is this technology truly as landmark as the SDAT was (and still is)?

Thanks to Geoffcin for reminding me to read my freakin' e-mail every once in awhile.

[Geoffcin]

PS Audio has just introduced a "revolutionary" new product called a Gain Cell. It now inhabits every amp, integrated, and pre that they build and summarily replaced their entire HCA2 and PCA line of products (now I know why AudioAdvisor had those combo deals). You can read about it here:
http://psaudio.com/newsletters/9-04.asp

A Question for you engineers out there (if any still inhabit the board); what is this thing in plain english? The spec's are, for the most part, latin to me. Are they good? Great? Revolutionary? Is a damping factor in the 1000's that important? While I'm sure there is some frippery thrown in, is this technology truly as landmark as the SDAT was (and still is)?

Thanks to Geoffcin for reminding me to read my freakin' e-mail every once in awhile.

And are being tight lipped about this one. From what it seems, if they are not going to patent it, then it's pre-existing tech that has been tweeked in some way.
Gain cards, and the like are available and expensive in audiophile quality. Most are built around op-amp tech, so my guess is that this is an op-amp based unit. The real genius of it is using it for preamp gain regulation, and mating it with the improved digital amp tech.

[FLZapped]

PS Audio has just introduced a "revolutionary" new product called a Gain Cell. It now inhabits every amp, integrated, and pre that they build and summarily replaced their entire HCA2 and PCA line of products (now I know why AudioAdvisor had those combo deals). You can read about it here:
http://psaudio.com/newsletters/9-04.asp

A Question for you engineers out there (if any still inhabit the board); what is this thing in plain english? The spec's are, for the most part, latin to me. Are they good? Great? Revolutionary? Is a damping factor in the 1000's that important? While I'm sure there is some frippery thrown in, is this technology truly as landmark as the SDAT was (and still is)?

Thanks to Geoffcin for reminding me to read my freakin' e-mail every once in awhile.

Well, it appears to be some sort of pre-amp type module. As far as I can tell, it is a way for them to lessen the cost of manufacture by building products around a known entity - as they said, nearly every product needs some sort of gain stage. What would be interesting is to see how many pins the thing has. More than power and I/O and one could speculate that it is a programmable gain stage....but I'm really out on a limb here.

It could even be something they outsource....I know, there is that dreaded word again.....

I see the sealing of it as a marketing ploy more than anything else, although a neat package like that lends itself well to automated assembly. *shrug*

-Bruce
(Having fun speculating)

[topspeed]

Geoff,
I thought op-amps were "bad" in audiophile apps. If I remember right, usually there's some blurb from a designer stating how there are no op-amps in the signal path. I could be hallucinating on this one...the memory ain't what it used to be.

Bruce-
Thanks for chiming in. What about the specs. Are they good? Are they even important? From an engineer's perspective, could something like the Gain Cell be considered an important advancement in the designer's state of the art? From the second I heard PSA's HCA2 digital amp, I surmised that this technology was the future of amplification and lo and behold, it is now being embraced by manufacturers from Panasonic to Jeff Rowland. Is this new technology also something that will be changing the face of audio design in your opinion?

[Geoffcin]

Op amps are everywhere, and a lot of the pro gear that is used to make recordings use them.

Some very good amps are made with this tech too, but most are super expensive. Jeff Rowland made one called the Concentra, a "little" amp for them at only 100 watts (but $6500!) One of my favorite's is a little GainCard amp called "Alien Watts" from Laboratory 47. That puppy puts out a whole 25 watts, and will set you back $3300!

[FLZapped]

Geoff,
I thought op-amps were "bad" in audiophile apps. If I remember right, usually there's some blurb from a designer stating how there are no op-amps in the signal path. I could be hallucinating on this one...the memory ain't what it used to be.

Bruce-
Thanks for chiming in. What about the specs. Are they good? Are they even important? From an engineer's perspective, could something like the Gain Cell be considered an important advancement in the designer's state of the art? From the second I heard PSA's HCA2 digital amp, I surmised that this technology was the future of amplification and lo and behold, it is now being embraced by manufacturers from Panasonic to Jeff Rowland. Is this new technology also something that will be changing the face of audio design in your opinion?


I took a quick look at one of their amps. The specs seemed fine, nothing beyond other products of their type that you could call a "breakthrough." However, the $2K price tag for a 40 watt amp was a "spec" I wasn't thrilled with.

Well, I don't know whether this was an engineering driven thing because they wanted to outsource part of the circuitry and also make something easy to assemble robotically: and the marketing folks glommed onto it, or if it was marketing driven from the onset. However, it is very clever in it's marketing. Certainbly by masking the circuitry like that, you can make all sorts of claims, good, bad, or ugly.

-Bruce

[topspeed]

I took a quick look at one of their amps. The specs seemed fine, nothing beyond other products of their type that you could call a "breakthrough." However, the $2K price tag for a 40 watt amp was a "spec" I wasn't thrilled with.
-Bruce
The GCA 100, the lowest powered amp they make, is rated at 100wpc @ 8ohm, 200 into 4 ohms. Where did you get 40wpc?

[Geoffcin]

The GCA 100, the lowest powered amp they make, is rated at 100wpc @ 8ohm, 200 into 4 ohms. Where did you get 40wpc?

1000 watts into 4 ohms! Talk about not worry about current limitations. These Digital amps don't even get hot, so that's like having your cake and eating it too. Time to start saving for X-mas here.

[topspeed]

1000 watts into 4 ohms! Talk about not worry about current limitations. These Digital amps don't even get hot, so that's like having your cake and eating it too. Time to start saving for X-mas here.
Yeah, I think it's time you powered down you're old Pioneer (isn't that what you use for your HT?) and drive those Newtons with a GCA5! You could get three 500wpc for your fronts and two 100wpc for your surrounds, not worry a whit about gain matching and probably blow your windows out! Yeah baby!

If I wasn't already planning on getting a widescreen and upgrading everything to HD this Christmas, you can bet I'd be considering a GCA3 for the front and moving my HCA2 to surround duty.

[FLZapped]

The GCA 100, the lowest powered amp they make, is rated at 100wpc @ 8ohm, 200 into 4 ohms. Where did you get 40wpc?


Well, lemme go look again. -Bruce

[FLZapped]

Well, lemme go look again. -Bruce

I know what I did. I looked at the idle power consumption.

-Bruce
(someone have a towel, this egg is getting sticky)

[Resident Loser]

..about "fuel cells", I'd say they are trying to cash-in on the techno-talk du jour with that TMd name...

Unfortunately, all that's visible is a glass/epoxy PCB with hardly any traces on the exposed side, the three trim pots, the @$$-end of an IC and what is most likely the footprint for a transistor...the rest seems to be appropriate for the ususal gang of caps, resistors, etc. My guess, the 3-pin, 8-pin and 9-pin connectors are most likely power in, signal in/out and control functions, in that order. Notice the case is deeper than the PCB w/trimpots...there is obviously room on the hidden side for the IC package and other components. The bulk of the circuit traces are also on that side.

Despite it's name, is it actually a complete, self-contained gain-stage or is it just an interface used to manipulate other circuitry or operating parameters within the amp? They claim it does away with attenuators and balance controls and doesn't lose any of, or alter the signal in the process as it provides a shorter signal path...straight wire with gain?

jimHJJ(...now THAT would be the Holy Grail...)

[Geoffcin]

Yeah, I think it's time you powered down you're old Pioneer (isn't that what you use for your HT?) and drive those Newtons with a GCA5! You could get three 500wpc for your fronts and two 100wpc for your surrounds, not worry a whit about gain matching and probably blow your windows out! Yeah baby!

If I wasn't already planning on getting a widescreen and upgrading everything to HD this Christmas, you can bet I'd be considering a GCA3 for the front and moving my HCA2 to surround duty.

Another 3000 or so watts into my system, although I'm sure I could!

To be honest I know the Pioneer is not doing the T500's justice. I'm really looking hard at a HCA2 to drive them right. It would also give me the ability to swap amps whenever the mood hit me, or Bi-amp my maggies!