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dvjorge
12-09-2003, 07:16 PM
Hello,

Another intersting topic is the real effects of using a power conditioner or more than one in serie, on the quality of sound. Before to spend money buying any Monster or Furman conditioner, I would like to know some experiences about how can a power conditioner improve the sound. One of my friends told me he noticed a big improvement after connecting a power conditioner to his h-fi system. I know that filtering the power should benefit the sound but the real question is : Can we listen to that difference?
Thanks for any answer.
George.

mtrycraft
12-09-2003, 11:15 PM
Hello,

Another intersting topic is the real effects of using a power conditioner or more than one in serie, on the quality of sound. Before to spend money buying any Monster or Furman conditioner, I would like to know some experiences about how can a power conditioner improve the sound. One of my friends told me he noticed a big improvement after connecting a power conditioner to his h-fi system. I know that filtering the power should benefit the sound but the real question is : Can we listen to that difference?
Thanks for any answer.
George.


It cannot. It helps with power surges.
Components filter on their own well enough.
Claims for differences are biased, not reliable as bias control methods are rarely if ever used.

bturk667
12-10-2003, 07:53 AM
Hello,

Another intersting topic is the real effects of using a power conditioner or more than one in serie, on the quality of sound. Before to spend money buying any Monster or Furman conditioner, I would like to know some experiences about how can a power conditioner improve the sound. One of my friends told me he noticed a big improvement after connecting a power conditioner to his h-fi system. I know that filtering the power should benefit the sound but the real question is : Can we listen to that difference?
Thanks for any answer.
George.

I personally have no experience on this subject matter. The best thing to me would seem to bring home a power conditioning unit, place it in your system, and let your ears be the judge. How about going to your local audio dealer and ask him for a demonstration. What could it hurt?

E-Stat
12-10-2003, 03:48 PM
Can we listen to that difference?

Hi Dvj,

This is not your usual <i>speaker</i> post !

I have two Monsters, one on the HT and the other on the music system. I find they lower the noise floor beyond that of the internal power supplies of the various components. I use it only for the turntable on the music system. YMMV.

But then again, I'm one of those loonies who uses aftermarket power cords on several components. :)

rw

bturk667
12-10-2003, 04:10 PM
But then again, I'm one of those loonies who uses aftermarket power cords on several components. :)

rw[/QUOTE]

I use the Audio Magic Extreme Silver Power Chord with my amp. What power chords do you use?

arjn
12-10-2003, 08:20 PM
But then again, I'm one of those loonies who uses aftermarket power cords on several components. :)

rw



in case the power in your area is really dirty with lots of noise or if the house wiring is not very good which again generates transients, then a power conditioner will help you... Otherwise a good power chord, especially for your Source (CD ?) and Amp/Preamp would make a big difference..

cheers!

mtrycraft
12-10-2003, 09:20 PM
But then again, I'm one of those loonies who uses aftermarket power cords on several components. :)

rw


You said it, not me :)

RGA
12-11-2003, 12:13 PM
Generally stores will let you try it out full money back gaurantee. So if you don't notice the improvement return them safely.

No problems...they claim to lower noise...so presumably if you hear noise in your system now and you buy one and it gets rid of that noise then it's worth it. But check with your power an cable company. TV Cable causes a lot of trouble if not properly grounded(forget their term for it)...and this is free. Got rid of a huge huge HUM problem I was having.

Why pay for a device(and the Monster's are not cheap) when your power or cable company can fix the problem for free before it ever gets into your home?

zapr
12-14-2003, 01:42 PM
It cannot. It helps with power surges.
Components filter on their own well enough.
Claims for differences are biased, not reliable as bias control methods are rarely if ever used.
If the components filters work,like YOU said,how can you say a power conditioner does nothing! Bias controls, don't make me laugh!

46minaudio
12-14-2003, 03:22 PM
how can you say a power conditioner does nothing

I dont recall where he said they did nothing.If you can follow,the topic is SQ..To elimate Bias a DBT would be in order...I hope this helps...

E-Stat
12-14-2003, 04:04 PM
I use the Audio Magic Extreme Silver Power Chord with my amp. What power chords do you use?

JPS Labs Digital on the Gamut CD-1, JPS Labs Power+ on the VTL monoblocks, and DIY Audio on the ARC SP-9MKIII and the VPI Scout.

rw

E-Stat
12-14-2003, 04:16 PM
in case the power in your area is really dirty with lots of noise or if the house wiring is not very good which again generates transients, then a power conditioner will help you... Otherwise a good power chord, especially for your Source (CD ?) and Amp/Preamp would make a big difference..

cheers!

I find benefit with using the power conditioner only on my turntable. It lowers the noise floor a pinch with my setup using a low output MC cartridge. BTW, my house is pretty new (6 years) and I use a dedicated line for the music system.

rw

E-Stat
12-14-2003, 04:21 PM
(regarding my comments that I am a loonie who uses aftermarket power cords) You said it, not me :)

I find myself among a minority of folks who constantly has music running through their head. I cannot imagine a world it. As a long term music hobbyist, I enjoy hearing what other folks find satisfying for their systems. What do you listen to?

rw

zapr
12-14-2003, 05:00 PM
I dont recall where he said they did nothing.If you can follow,the topic is SQ..To elimate Bias a DBT would be in order...I hope this helps...
If you can follow........Dvjorge asked if a power conditioner improved sound......mytrcraft stated "it cannot".......hence, they do nothing.who cares about bias.I think Arjn summed it up best to do with power conditioning.

46minaudio
12-14-2003, 05:57 PM
If you can follow........Dvjorge asked if a power conditioner improved sound......mytrcraft stated "it cannot".......hence, they do nothing

Wrong,They do nothing were your words.."it cannot" were in reference to SQ(as to improve)..If you can follow...

skeptic
12-15-2003, 07:37 AM
Most so called power conditioners are worthless. I know, I've spent millions of dollars of other people's money on power conditioning equipment and on UPSs of all sizes. You have to know what's inside it, what kind of problems you have, and then you can get an idea of the likelihood of fixing it. In other words, you have to be an electrical engineer or get the advice of someone who is before you have any inkling of what you are spending your money on or even if you should spend any at all.

Here are some hints. Many so called power conditioners are little more than expensive receptacles, an MOV surge protector, and possibly a small capacitor and/or inductor or two in a fancy package. The expensive receptacles do absolutely nothing for you. BTW, the feature that distinguishes a "hospital grade receptacle" is that the ground pin is the first to make contact and the last to break contact when a plug is inserted to minimize arcing which could start a fire near oxygen in use. You can buy plug in MOVs from RS or elsewhere for very cheap, about $9 in a nylon barrel housing with a neon light to indicate they are working. They momentarily short to prevent overvoltage to a load when there is a surge or spike. Any small capacitor or inductor is just an RF filter whose function should be accomplished easily as well by any high quality electronic component's power supply.

Truely usable conditioners should have heavy computer grade isolation transformers and large capacitors. I like the ferroresonant types which can stabalize voltage that is too low or too high but they must be loaded to at least 10 percent of their rating to perform this kind of regulation. Sola makes a good one but you are going to pay big bucks and they are big and heavy. Better yet is a good UPS but the better ones for this type of equipment are also expensive. I'd plan to spend at least $1000 and the ones I'd buy are made by companies like Exide (Powerware), MGE, and Liebert, or other industrial suppliers, not the cheapies you'll see in audio stores. When you shop for one, look for specifications for harmonic distortion and regulation. If they don't give you these specs, they have something to hide. (You can use the cheap ones on your PC.)

Unless you have actual knowledge that there is a power problem, how do you know if you need a power conditioner at all and unless you know what the nature of the problem is, how do you know that you fixed it? Trial and error is a very expensive lesson to learn when it comes to this kind of equipment. And BTW, I've seen plenty of crackpot ideas and scams sold at an industrial level as well and there, the mistakes victims make are in the many thousands and tens of thousands. Examples; atomatic tap switching transformers and zig-zag transformers.

zapr
12-16-2003, 03:17 PM
Wrong,They do nothing were your words.."it cannot" were in reference to SQ(as to improve)..If you can follow...
........what's the difference!

thepogue
12-17-2003, 02:44 PM
good info......good job laddy..


;)

woodman
12-20-2003, 04:18 PM
Hello,

Another intersting topic is the real effects of using a power conditioner or more than one in serie, on the quality of sound. Before to spend money buying any Monster or Furman conditioner, I would like to know some experiences about how can a power conditioner improve the sound. One of my friends told me he noticed a big improvement after connecting a power conditioner to his h-fi system. I know that filtering the power should benefit the sound but the real question is : Can we listen to that difference?
Thanks for any answer.
George.


This is a classic example of how a person's ABEs can produce a sensory perception that withdraws cash from one's pocket as slick as any pickpocket that ever lived! Do not get taken in by this outright scam. It happens due to the degree to which one Believes what he reads and hears from others about a certain thing. That coupled with his Attitude about such things in general, combine to produce (usually in the subconscious) an Expectation that in turn produces the sensory perception that is experienced.

Although it is a possibility (although quite "iffy" and debatable), that a "power conditioner" might remove some noise (some sort of "interference") from the sound, that's the absolute limit to what it CAN do. It cannot produce a "wider soundstage" or "better bass" or "clearer highs" or "more detail" or any other such sonic improvement ... it's not technically possible as anyone with an education in electronics will tell you. The "quality" of the incoming A-C power is not involved in the creation of the sounds at all. It ONLY provides a power source for a component's internal power supply circuit to convert into the D-C voltage that all of the sound producing circuits require. A-C voltage cannot be used to power signal circuits because of it's 60 Hz component which would pass right on through the signal paths as horrendous "HUM". So, the A-C power line that enters a device has to be converted to D-C voltage with ALL of the 60 Hz removed (and any other spurious "noise" as well) in order for the device to produce pleasant sound. The power supply circuits of most all devices that process sound are quite capable of this task all by themselves, without the benefit (?) of external "line conditioning".

The only thing that comes to mind that is a bigger ripoff than "line conditioners" are the aftermarket power cords that the terminally gullible are convinced to purchase by other well-meaning but seriously misguided individuals (at completely outrageous prices). They do absolutely ZILCH to improve anything - although there are numerous "audiophiles" that will swear on a stack of Bibles (or any other book) that they get absolutely miraculous results from them!

Hope this helps you -