5.1 system with All LARGE Speakers.

[rajx7]

Hey All,
Recently I had a chance to go to a new home theater store where they had 5.1 setup with all large(floorstanding) speakers. It sounded awesome. The surround part sounded much clearer and better those regular surround speakers even in 7.1 setup. I wanted to know if anyone is using fullrange speakers (like floorstanding) speakers for their surround and if they would recommend it over smaller monopole, dipole or bipole speakers. I have Athena AS-F2 and also wanted to know if anyone is using 4 AS-F2 for front and rears. If yes ,I would really appreciate if you can share your experience.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Rajx7

[kexodusc]

The surround part sounded much clearer and better those regular surround speakers even in 7.1 setup. I wanted to know if anyone is using fullrange speakers (like floorstanding) speakers for their surround and if they would recommend it over smaller monopole, dipole or bipole speakers.
Not sure what you're getting at. Some floorstanders aren't "fullrange" and some bookshelf sized ones are. If you're comparing the AS-F2's to a Home-Theater-In-a-Box type thing, then yeah, it would smoke it no doubt.

But if you're comparing, say the AS-B2's to the AS-F2's, I highly doubt you'd notice much substantial difference just because the speaker is bigger. There should be some subtle improvements. Typically, speakers in a certain model line have more bass capability as they increase in size. Quite often for speakers below $1500 or so, the added bass comes at the expense of midrange clarity or, the larger cabinet introduces undesireable characteristics because of resonance or whatever. In fact, I typically prefer the smallest bookshelf model in most model lines under $1500 to the large floorstanders because the added bass comes at too high a loss in the sound quality department, or it just isn't "enough" bottom end to justify the cost. Sometimes the 2nd smallest speaker is the best, there's no rule of thumb. In home theater, if you use a subwoofer to handle the bass freqencies below say 80 Hz, the larger speakers add almost no extra benefit.



I have Athena AS-F2 and also wanted to know if anyone is using 4 AS-F2 for front and rears. If yes ,I would really appreciate if you can share your experience.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Rajx7
For aesthetics, ease of placement, and sound quality, I wouldn't recommend the AS-F2's over the AS-B2's...Event he AS-B1's should be enough. At the cost of AS-F2's you can buy better sounding bookshelf speakers.
In speakers, size does not necessarily translate into improved performance.

[markw]

The F2's dual woofers aren't "SUB" woofers. They are simply dual woofers. Even with the 4 F2's you would still want a sub to brag out that lowest octave.

A subwoofer puts out the nether regions where true full range speakers let off.

The F2's will output a prodigious amount of bass and upper bass, no matter how loud that range is, the F2's still won't plumb the true depths you can get with a real subwoofer. By trying to get the "Sub" range out of a full range system you run the risk of screwing up the upper bass/lower midrange.

If you want to hear a nice balanced system, try a pair of AS-F1's in the front R/L, the matching center and a pair of AS-B2's in the back. Set all speakers to Large. Add a nice sub which cuts in around 45-50 hz or so and blend carefully. You will be amazed.

FWIW, that's my HT and it sounds a heckuva lot more expensive than it really was.

Now, if you're talkin' Vandy 5's then that a another story and a whole 'nuther price range. They do, in fact, have a built in sub woofer to augment the rest of the speaker which is, in essense, a full range speaker.

[rajx7]

Hey Guys ,
Thanks a lot for your insight. I am sorry I forgot to add that I would also like to add a good subwoofer from SVS or Outlaw's LFM to handle the LFE signals which are not supposed to be handled by full range speakers.Also when I mentioned Large speakers I actually meant full range speakers preferably the floorstanding ones. I already own As-F2s and As-C1 as fronts. I am still thinking of upgrading them on the surround side. Earlier I was thinking of setting upa 7.1 system using 4 AS-R1s for surround back, but after listening to the 5.1 setup at that home theater I mentioned earlier, I was really impressed with that basic setup. I currently have Def. Techs Pro Monitor 100 as Surround sides and Pro 80 as surr. backs.

When I show my system to my friends I always like to play a chapter from "Behind Enemy Lines" when Owen Wilson has to go through that mine reggier field and all the mines start blowing up one by one. Right before the blowing up scene there is a scene where you hear the echo of a giggling girl and comes from surround channels. I happend to see the same chapter at that home theater place and man there was so much difference in the surround channels. The giggling girls echo sounded so much clearer and distinct. That comparison kind of raise my doubts regarding 5.1 ( full range speakers setup ) to 7.1 ( with 4 bookshelf or bipole speakers ) setup.

But I do appreciate your inputs.
Thanks,
rajx7

[J*E*Cole]

When I found a couple of Infinity Alpha 50's for $179 closeout at Circuit City, I bought them right up, not too sure what I'd do with them since I already had some Infinity Alpha 40's I was using as my mains. So I decided to use the 40's as my surrounds now and use the new 50's, which I paid less for than the 40's, as my new mains. I bi-wired the new 50's and re-configured my H/K receiver, and the sound was amazing. I would not go back to small surrounds again unless I had an absolute space restriction.

[chimera128]

I'm using BP10Bs for surrounds (i'm sure bass probably rolls off quickly in the lower octaves but manufacturers specs are rated to 20hz and their bass is tighter/louder than the prosub 100tl/promonitor 100 combo I was using for mains) and Promonitor100s through the prosub100tl (with a towel stuck in the port.. it seems to tighten up the bass just a bit) for rear center. I have BP7000SCs for mains and a C/L/R 3000 for center. I have been extremely happy with this setup and also wouldn't go back to using small speakers for surrounds or any of the channels. It was a little more difficult to setup with all the subs (not to mention finding outlets to plug them in) than with the sub/sat combo I was using before but well worth it.

[rajx7]

Guys that really helps a lot. So chimera and Cole , you guys have 5.1 setup I presume? The other configuration I was thinking of was to buy some good bookshelf like Athena-B2s and buy couple of subs and use a high pass connection to the surrounds and list the speakers as large in the receiver. What do you think of this configuration .
Thanks for all your input.

[chimera128]

two promonitors + two bp10bs + two bp7000scs + 1 c/l/r 3000 = 7.1

[J*E*Cole]

Guys that really helps a lot. So chimera and Cole , you guys have 5.1 setup I presume? The other configuration I was thinking of was to buy some good bookshelf like Athena-B2s and buy couple of subs and use a high pass connection to the surrounds and list the speakers as large in the receiver. What do you think of this configuration .
Thanks for all your input.
When I was using my old Paradigm Monitor bookshelfs, I tried playing around with the small and large settings and found that it works using large speakers as small as long as you reconfigure everything else accordingly, but that the opposite is not true. When I set my bookshelfs as large, it really sounded awful. For what it's worth. Good luck!

[rajx7]

Cole,
Thanks for your reply. I agree about that configuration you talked about. Since seeting a small speaker as large can be bad I was suggesting to connect them via a subwoofer using a High Pass connection and may be cut of the freq at 80-100Hz. Something like a speakers with in built subs. I was wondering if anyone tried that config. and would it sound good.
rajx7.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Hey All,
Recently I had a chance to go to a new home theater store where they had 5.1 setup with all large(floorstanding) speakers. It sounded awesome. The surround part sounded much clearer and better those regular surround speakers even in 7.1 setup. I wanted to know if anyone is using fullrange speakers (like floorstanding) speakers for their surround and if they would recommend it over smaller monopole, dipole or bipole speakers. I have Athena AS-F2 and also wanted to know if anyone is using 4 AS-F2 for front and rears. If yes ,I would really appreciate if you can share your experience.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Rajx7

I am willing to bet if this anal retentive, RTA toting, measurement loving, room acoustic hound dawg was too come through this room with a RTA, I would find a host of acoustical problems with this system. Bass coming from all direction is a real acoustical problem. Each bass driver located in a different place loads the room differently. According to the research done by Dr. Floyd Toole, there can be a cumulative disparity of as much as 40db in the deep bass in some rooms, and some systems with this kind of configuration. According to his research the flattest, loudest bass comes from placing a single(or multiple)subs in a single corner.

If you are going to do this kind of setup, bass traps, acoustical treatments, and equalization are mandatory because of the above mentioned acoustical problems

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

two promonitors + two bp10bs + two bp7000scs + 1 c/l/r 3000 = 7.1

This is just 8 speakers, not 7.1. There is currently no such thing as 7.1 There are not 8 discrete channels in your system.

[Geoffcin]

Bass coming from all direction is a real acoustical problem. Each bass driver located in a different place loads the room differently. According to the research done by Dr. Floyd Toole, there can be a cumulative disparity of as much as 40db in the deep bass in some rooms, and some systems with this kind of configuration. According to his research the flattest, loudest bass comes from placing a single(or multiple)subs in a single corner.

If you are going to do this kind of setup, bass traps, acoustical treatments, and equalization are mandatory because of the above mentioned acoustical problems

"Super Moderator" On this point we have accord.

I've had the unhappy task of having to try to balance a multitude of speakers in one room. It's not an easy job I can tell you, and it's the bass that's the problem. Even with dual SPL meters, a friend who was a professional sound man, and a lot of good whisky, we only managed to get 3 seats the 7 seat main seating area within a reasonable spread. If I had to try to balance another 4 full range speakers placed all over the room it would be a joke.