I Know It's Been Covered Before; What's The Best Way to Play These "Mono" Soundtracks

[Lexmark3200]

Me and my better half were watching an original VHS copy of the gang classic "The Wanderers" she brought over the other night; she's a big fan of this film and has had this VHS copy since the days of her mom working in a video rental store and bringing this title home for her. As we watched the film (it was my first time seeing it) I began to, as I always do watching recorded media, mentally analyze the so-called "Hi-Fi" soundtrack on the VHS tape....this must have been a mono mix, because when I put the tape in my Hi Fi Sony VCR, pressed "VIDEO 1" on my receiver to get sound from the VCR, and then ran the film, nothing came out of my system except from the center channel. I began experimenting with sound fields on the receiver, but, as usual with mono signals, I got the same awful results over and over, and I have some questions....

The box said "HI FI" on it, and the STEREO light illuminated on my VCR while it played "The Wanderers," so how can this have been a HI FI MONO soundtrack? Isnt this a contradiction? Moving on from that, I tried pressing "STEREO" on my receiver, to take the film out of PRO LOGIC II MOVIE mode that my receiver automatically dropped into (with everything coming from the center channel), and it spread everything to the two front speakers.....only this, like what I experience with all the mono DVD soundtracks in my collection too, produced a very odd separation and dropped the overall power and volume of the mono track even lower than it already was; I didnt like it coming from the stereo fronts. I then experimented with different DSP modes, all which sounded absolutely horrible....I left it on "TV Logic" and "Studio Mix" (two Onkyo exclusive DSPs) for awhile, but both made this soundtrack awful....we couldnt even make out the dialogue in the film when I switched these "forced surround" modes on....it seemed the only mode that sounded remotely good was the original Pro Logic II, which sent EVERYTHING into the center channel; this sounded loudest and just cleanest. The SAME thing happened a couple of nights back when we watched "The Warriors" DVD a friend of mine gave me to borrow; the DVD is in mono only, and the only way it sounded decent was coming from the center channel, decoded by Pro Logic II; for some reason, on my system, mono soundtracks --- whether they are VHS or DVD --- produce an odd separation and sound when I spread them to the stereo speakers; it actually sounds BETTER with everything coming from the center position....

Which brings me to the question of, what is the best way to watch older material like this? I feel like, if everything is just coming from the center channel anyway on mono soundtracks, why not just shut the surround receiver off altogether and just watch the film through the TV's speakers? Should 2.0 mono DVD or VHS mono mixes be played back through a surround system's two front channels, or just through the center via Pro Logic, or is it better just to shut all amplification and processing down and watch the film simply through the TV's speakers? I feel like if everything is going to come from the center channel only in my surround system, why not just run the DVD or VHS tape through the TV's simple stereo speakers? Why bother turning the receiver on?

[Slosh]

The box said "HI FI" on it, and the STEREO light illuminated on my VCR while it played "The Wanderers," so how can this have been a HI FI MONO soundtrack?

Hi Fi doesn't necessarily mean stereo, as you found out. Even so it beats the hell out of the linear audio track. Even true stereo doesn't necessarily decode well with PLII. It's all hit-or-miss unless the soundtrack is encoded in Dolby Stereo.


Moving on from that, I tried pressing "STEREO" on my receiver, to take the film out of PRO LOGIC II MOVIE mode that my receiver automatically dropped into (with everything coming from the center channel), and it spread everything to the two front speakers.....only this, like what I experience with all the mono DVD soundtracks in my collection too, produced a very odd separation and dropped the overall power and volume of the mono track even lower than it already was

This should not be. If your system is properly calibrated the center speaker should be the same volume as the front L/R. If your preference is for a somewhat louder center that, of course, is just fine but it still shouldn't be as dramatic a difference.



Which brings me to the question of, what is the best way to watch older material like this?

I prefer plain old Pro Logic (or PLII) because I don't want to hear on screen dialog coming from the sides, etc.

[Lexmark3200]

Hi Fi doesn't necessarily mean stereo, as you found out. Even so it beats the hell out of the linear audio track. Even true stereo doesn't necessarily decode well with PLII. It's all hit-or-miss unless the soundtrack is encoded in Dolby Stereo.



This should not be. If your system is properly calibrated the center speaker should be the same volume as the front L/R. If your preference is for a somewhat louder center that, of course, is just fine but it still shouldn't be as dramatic a difference.



I prefer plain old Pro Logic (or PLII) because I don't want to hear on screen dialog coming from the sides, etc.

Slosh,

Thanks for the replies; some questions and comments, if I may, respectfully:

I agree that Pro Logic II, most of the time, just plain sucks; I dont know if its the DVD soundtracks specifically that call on PLII to decode their "Dolby Surround" mixes, but on my setup, most 2-channel DVD soundtracks just suck when decoded in PLII; no power at all to the mixes. And I have a bunch, unfortunately, of 2-channel DVDs in my collection.

With regard to your comment about my center channel and its calibration, my setup has been calibrated so that the center channel is delivering a much greater output than the rest of my channels because of its sensitivity; seems most dialogue was too low for me even in discrete Dolby and DTS surround mixes. So this could be why I am hearing this difference when I switch soundtracks to stereo; BUT, I think it sounds more like the QUALITY of these mono DVDs because when I switch from PLII --- with everything coming from the center --- to stereo, feeding the two front speakers the mono signal, everything just drops in QUALITY....the mono track seems distant and hollow....when I switch back to PLII, and everything in the mono mix comes through the center again, the sound quality is actually BETTER coming from that one speaker....like stereo just gives an "odd separation" to these mono soundtracks; I have even read online one DVD reviewer saying something about these 2.0 mono DVDs and mentioning the EXACT same thing I did, that "you are better off playing back (this said DVD) properly through Pro Logic and through the center channel rather than in stereo due to the odd separation this creates...." so I cant be dreaming this.

You mention that you prefer just watching these old soundtracks in plain old Pro Logic II, which I have decided sounds much much better than trying to run these horrible DSP modes which most of the time makes the soundtrack even worse sounding, but what about leaving the amplification and processing of a receiver completely OFF and watching the DVD through the TV's speakers; wouldnt this give the same experience than the soundtrack coming through the center channel only of a surround system?

Which way would it be better to watch these mono DVDs sound-wise, through the surround system's center channel or through the TV's stereo speakers?

[markw]

Somehow, this subject rings a bell....

[Lexmark3200]

Somehow, this subject rings a bell....

Hmmmmmm.....and I swear I have drove through Noo Joisey before too....hmmmm.....

[Slosh]

Which way would it be better to watch these mono DVDs sound-wise, through the surround system's center channel or through the TV's stereo speakers?

Well, I spent quite a bit of money on my amps/processor/speakers so I always use them, even when watching the news. In fact, I never even tried my TV's own speakers and I've owned my current set for nearly five years! I don't even have any audio running to or from the TV. I suppose a source could be so poorly recorded that the lower fidelity of the TV's own speakers could be the better option but at least when using your home theater system you know you'll be getting the best sound possible, as poor as that may be.

When I switch off Pro Logic with mono sources it still sounds the same, only coming from different speakers. Any "oddness" you may be hearing probably has a lot more to do with room acoustics than anything else.

FWIW, my processor has a "Mono Movie" DSP but even so I still prefer Pro Logic.

[Lexmark3200]

Well, I spent quite a bit of money on my amps/processor/speakers so I always use them, even when watching the news. In fact, I never even tried my TV's own speakers and I've owned my current set for nearly five years! I don't even have any audio running to or from the TV. I suppose a source could be so poorly recorded that the lower fidelity of the TV's own speakers could be the better option but at least when using your home theater system you know you'll be getting the best sound possible, as poor as that may be.

When I switch off Pro Logic with mono sources it still sounds the same, only coming from different speakers. Any "oddness" you may be hearing probably has a lot more to do with room acoustics than anything else.

FWIW, my processor has a "Mono Movie" DSP but even so I still prefer Pro Logic.

I understand what you are saying ---- totally --- about spending a lot of money on the surround equipment and so why not use them all the time....I have this dilemma each time I sit down on the couch! For me, though, I only have my DVD player, VCR (and CD player, of course, for music) connected to my receiver in order to enjoy cinema only in surround; I never connected my cable box to the receiver, even though a few stations on my unaffordable cable system broadcast in Dolby 5.1 for things like The Sopranos and such; I just happen to enjoy FILMS in surround format, those I have bought on DVD preferably, for pure digital sound, so when I watch broacast television, my system isn't on. You mention that at least I'll know Im getting the best sound possible when playing back a poor source through my surround system's speakers (the center channel in the case of mono DVDs), but the thing is, with these poorly recorded mono tracks, it seems like playing them back through the TV's stereo speakers sounds just as good as getting them to play back just through the center channel; see what I am saying? Either way, through the TV's speakers or through the center channel of my surround setup, the presentation is coming from IN FRONT OF THE LISTENER from the sweet spot position, so which way do I run the mono films?

Yeah, I have heard about this "Mono Movie" mode that many receivers have; Onkyo doesnt have this DSP....it is interesting that you still prefer Pro Logic II for these; so, in PLII, your decoder sends all the information in a mono mix just to the center, even if its a "2.0 mono" track?

My receiver has the equivalent of your mono movie mode, with DSPs like "TV Logic" or "Studio Mix".....I dont quite know what the point of these are, as they sound HORRIBLE when playing back mono sources or broadcast cable shows (which I have experimented with just a couple of times, leading me to just watch cable through my TV's speakers only)....it adds some ambience to the mono soundtrack --- or TRIES to --- in TV Logic or Studio Mix, but just ends up sounding so much worse than the whole thing coming from the center channel in Pro Logic II; it just sounds empty, echo-ey and tinny sounding when I use these DSPs....they are awful for the most part. And forget "All Channel Stereo," which my processor has....that sounds the worst, with all dialogue and everything coming from EVERY speaker in the system....that sounds the most awkward....

Would you say that the best way to play back mono sources would be through Pro Logic (II) so everything comes from the center, as it was originally mixed and intended to?