I will not buy Star Wars DVDs

[ske]

I just cannot do it. I was going to until I read about the changes. Most of which did not bother me that much. But what I heard takes the cake. The end of ROTJ with the ghosts of Yoda, Ben and Anakin has been ruined. Old Anakin is replaced bay Hayden Christenson (sp?). Why not replace Ben as well? The story was about redemption, and it was the old Anakin that found it. The other thing that bothers me is the selfishness of Lucas. Technically these are his films to do with as he pleases, but that does make it right. He can change them, I will not buy them. Remember that Terminator 2 Ultimate edition had several versions on DVD, giving people a choice. The technology for the choice is there with Star Wars, but Lucas will only allow us to see what he wants us to see. Don't get me wrong, he has every right to do it. I believe alot of people are going to be very upset that they bought this, and see that it has been changed. I loved the old Star Wars for its orighinal charm and story of faith, forgiveness and redemption. I think Lucas has lost what spark he had to come up with the original idea. Let's not forget that Anakin had to have a blood test to see if the force was strong in him! Has someone lived in the bubble for a little too long? Sorry for the rant, I know alot of people out there think we should suck it up and accept the revisionist versions of our childhood memories, I just cannot. Let Lucas change his original ideas, it is his right, but I will not spend the money on a changed product.

[htfan14]

LOL, tradition, it's SCIENCE FICTION! Good is good and these movies look as good on my big screen as any new releases. Long time coming and worth the wait :-)

[kexodusc]

Actually, if that's true, it is a good change IMO...
Funny how Star Wars has become proprietary to so many.
Being a Legend is the kiss of death. Everyone develops an opinion, and nothing is ever good enough.

Despite falling short of the magic of the Original Trilogy by a wide margin, I enjoyed the Ep. 1 & 2 (except for some minor annoyances)...they weren't as good, but still better than 90% of movie choices out there.

Hey, SKE, it could have been worse....When Luke removed the mask to look at Vader, it could have bee Jar-Jar under there...

[ske]

Actually, if that's true, it is a good change IMO...
Funny how Star Wars has become proprietary to so many.
Being a Legend is the kiss of death. Everyone develops an opinion, and nothing is ever good enough.

Despite falling short of the magic of the Original Trilogy by a wide margin, I enjoyed the Ep. 1 & 2 (except for some minor annoyances)...they weren't as good, but still better than 90% of movie choices out there.

Hey, SKE, it could have been worse....When Luke removed the mask to look at Vader, it could have bee Jar-Jar under there...

Like I said it is his franchise, but is it a good thing to change the original without leaving the original available? Would it be a positive thing if every single movie, book or work of art ever made be revised and updated? I do not mean to pick on you specifically, but what revisions would bother you? Or do you not really mind if anything is changed?

[kexodusc]

You're not picking on me :)

Well, I guess it comes down to the fact that I consider this insubstantial...hell, if anything it's better because, like it or not, Hayden Christianson (sp?) is a big part of the legacy now...maybe this was how Lucas wanted it from the start, and didn't know what a potential young vader would look like...hey that would have been horrible, eh? Plus, there's no way that Christianson is going to grow into that ugly ol' goof guy's image. More believable this way.

Put it this way...changes that wouldn't bother me are ones that, if they were incorporated in the very first release, would have little bearing on the enjoyment value of the movie. If young vader was shown as is now (apparently) in theaters the very first time, nobody would have cared (but they might not have known who it was).

Basically, this picture swap of young Anakin for old doesn't matter.

Now, if they all of a suddden made Chewy a goth vampire/werewolf type creature, wrote Jar-Jar into the Emperor's final throne-room battle scene, or changed the plot, I'd be a bit put off.

You're right though, it would be nice to get the original releases as an option. I suspect one day we will, but probably for cost purposes, Lucas decided against it.
I'm more miffed that I have to live with a Dolby Digital format, no matter how good it is, and that I can't get DTS!!!

[ske]

You're not picking on me :)

Well, I guess it comes down to the fact that I consider this insubstantial...hell, if anything it's better because, like it or not, Hayden Christianson (sp?) is a big part of the legacy now...maybe this was how Lucas wanted it from the start, and didn't know what a potential young vader would look like...hey that would have been horrible, eh? Plus, there's no way that Christianson is going to grow into that ugly ol' goof guy's image. More believable this way.

Put it this way...changes that wouldn't bother me are ones that, if they were incorporated in the very first release, would have little bearing on the enjoyment value of the movie. If young vader was shown as is now (apparently) in theaters the very first time, nobody would have cared (but they might not have known who it was).

Basically, this picture swap of young Anakin for old doesn't matter.

Now, if they all of a suddden made Chewy a goth vampire/werewolf type creature, wrote Jar-Jar into the Emperor's final throne-room battle scene, or changed the plot, I'd be a bit put off.

You're right though, it would be nice to get the original releases as an option. I suspect one day we will, but probably for cost purposes, Lucas decided against it.
I'm more miffed that I have to live with a Dolby Digital format, no matter how good it is, and that I can't get DTS!!!


Do not hold your breath for DTS on this one.
Again I ask, why not replace old Ben? Once again, the end of ROTJ was about redemption. It makes no sense to show a younger Anakin. I really believe thet Lucas has lost any faith he may have had way back when. The original trilogy centers so much around it and the new trilogy goes to such an effort to explain everything away. BLOOD TEST anyone? UGH.

[kexodusc]

I think you're over-reacting here...it's just a movie, dude.
In the end I think Lucas did it just as a subtle way to link the 2 trilogies.
And the Blood test, well, whoop-dee-crap.

I can't believe anyone would think that a subtle, 7 second image, would ruin what is probably 8 or so excellent hours worth of film.

Yes, RTOJ was about redemption, it was also about everything good beating everything evil. The young Ani was good, the old one evil...

Man...After what Burton and crew did to Planet of the Apes, I think we've got bigger fish to fry than Lucas and RTOJ.

[ske]

I think you're over-reacting here...it's just a movie, dude.
Then why are we even having this discussion.

In the end I think Lucas did it just as a subtle way to link the 2 trilogies.
In the asumption that the consumer is a moron.

And the Blood test, well, whoop-dee-crap.
I guess nothing means anythimg.

I can't believe anyone would think that a subtle, 7 second image, would ruin what is probably 8 or so excellent hours worth of film.
Its the emotional culmination of the entire trilogy. But oh well.

Yes, RTOJ was about redemption, it was also about everything good beating everything evil. The young Ani was good, the old one evil...
The old one sought and found redemption, not the young one.

Man...After what Burton and crew did to Planet of the Apes, I think we've got bigger fish to fry than Lucas and RTOJ.
I think you're over-reacting here...it's just a movie, dude. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[kexodusc]

I think you're over-reacting here...it's just a movie, dude.
Then why are we even having this discussion.

Just trying to help you deal with the emotionally catastrophic events of your life


In the end I think Lucas did it just as a subtle way to link the 2 trilogies.
In the asumption that the consumer is a moron.

Well, if the shoe fits...


And the Blood test, well, whoop-dee-crap.
I guess nothing means anythimg.
No, and that's the problem don't try to make something out of nothing.


I can't believe anyone would think that a subtle, 7 second image, would ruin what is probably 8 or so excellent hours worth of film.
Its the emotional culmination of the entire trilogy. But oh well.

"Emotional culmination"? LOL - Give your head a shake, buddy, it's not freakin' War & Peace...its STAR WARS. What emotional part of the plot did this alter in any way?



Yes, RTOJ was about redemption, it was also about everything good beating everything evil. The young Ani was good, the old one evil...
The old one sought and found redemption, not the young one.
:rolleyes: Yep, and just as the old one "ceased to be Anakin Skywalker" when he became evil he reverts to the only "good-guy" form (young Ani) he had when he redeems himself...
This is ridiculous, you can accept every far fetched part of Star Wars but this???



Man...After what Burton and crew did to Planet of the Apes, I think we've got bigger fish to fry than Lucas and RTOJ.
I think you're over-reacting here...it's just a movie, dude. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Glad you're finally coming to your senses :)

But you're probably right about not buying the DVD's. If something so insignificant and minute can disturb you so much, it's probably not safe for you watch them. :D

[Woochifer]

I've been going back and forth on this, but the original Star Wars trilogy still ranks among my favorite moviegoing experiences, so I'll likely buy the DVD set when it comes. Unfortunately, I think Lucas has really lost touch with reality and his fanbase in a big way.
The changes that he's made from now referring to Star Wars (the original movie) as Episode IV: A New Hope, to snippeting in Hayden Christensen into the final scene of ROTJ (or I guess now Episode VI: Return of the Jedi), it's like he can't leave well enough alone.

I found an AP interview with Lucas (posted below), and I just don't get the impression that he really cares all that much about putting out something that fans will be happy with. He's the owner of the film, so he will do with it as he pleases, no matter how many people already enjoyed it in its original form. It also almost seems as though he's just pushing out these DVDs because he's afraid that piracy will wipe out the market if he waits too long.

I'm pretty frustrated with these constant tweaks that Lucas feels the need to make, but they did say that the 1995 rerelease of the original trilogy would be the "final" release, so maybe fans should have taken that seriously.

Oh well, but count me among those who will have the trilogy spinning on the DVD player come Tuesday. From what I understand the sound and video quality of the transfers is excellent, and that alone is a good thing. Although the extras seem a bit thin, the documentary (which they showed in an edited form on A&E over the weekend) is quite good. Rumor has it that Lucas is withholding a lot of extras like deleted scenes for HD-DVD, since the DVD has never really been a format that he wholeheartedly embraced. So, we're getting Star Wars finally, but it is indeed a mixed bag.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASSOCIATED PRESS
'Star Wars' Trilogy Debuts on DVD
Wednesday September 15 2:27 PM ET

George Lucas never figured on a 30-year career as a space pilot. Once "Star Wars" shot into hyperspace, though, he found it hard to come back down to Earth.

Making its DVD debut Tuesday, Lucas' original sci-fi trilogy "Star Wars," "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi" began as an experimental foray into old-time studio moviemaking for Lucas, whose first two films had been far removed from usual Hollywood sensibilities.

Lucas' sci-fi satire "THX 1138" had been a commercial dud, but the energetic "American Graffiti" with its driving soundtrack and multi-character point of view scored with audiences, giving the director clout to try something bigger that had been on his mind.

"I'd already started this other idea, which was to do a kind of a classic action adventure film using sets," Lucas said over lunch at his 2,600-acre Skywalker Ranch. "I'd never worked on a set, I'd never worked at a studio. Never made a traditional movie. So I said, `I'm going to do this once, just to see what it's like, what it's like to actually design everything, work on a soundstage, do an old-fashioned 1930s movie.

"And I'll do it in that mode from the 1930s Saturday matinee serials, using kind of 1930s and '40s sensibilities, and I'll base it on sort of mythological motifs and icons. I'll just put it together in a modern form, and I'll have fun. That's how I got into that. I did it because it was an interesting move into an area that I thought I'd never go into."

Three decades later, Lucas is preparing to launch the last of his six "Star Wars" films. Next summer brings "Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith," completing the prequel trilogy that tells the story of young Anakin Skywalker's metamorphosis into the villainous Darth Vader of the original three films.

Fans have eagerly awaited the first three "Star Wars" films on DVD, a release Lucas initially intended to delay until he finished "Episode III."

Some will be miffed that the original theatrical versions are not included in the "Star Wars" boxed set, which features only the special-edition versions Lucas issued in the late 1990s, with added effects and footage, including a scene between Harrison Ford's Han Solo and crime lord Jabba the Hutt in the first "Star Wars."

AP: Why did you change your mind and decide to put the original three movies out on DVD now?

Lucas: Just because the market has shifted so dramatically. A lot of people are getting very worried about piracy. That has really eaten dramatically into the sales. It really just came down to, there may not be a market when I wanted to bring it out, which was like, three years from now. So rather than just sit by and watch the whole thing fall apart, better to bring it out early and get it over with.

AP: Why did you rework the original trilogy into the special-edition versions in the late 1990s?

Lucas: To me, the special edition ones are the films I wanted to make. Anybody that makes films knows the film is never finished. It's abandoned or it's ripped out of your hands, and it's thrown into the marketplace, never finished. It's a very rare experience where you find a filmmaker who says, "That's exactly what I wanted. I got everything I needed. I made it just perfect. I'm going to put it out there." And even most artists, most painters, even composers would want to come back and redo their work now. They've got a new perspective on it, they've got more resources, they have better technology, and they can fix or finish the things that were never done. ... I wanted to actually finish the film the way it was meant to be when I was originally doing it. At the beginning, people went, "Don't you like it?" I said, "Well, the film only came out to be 25 or 30 percent of what I wanted it to be." They said, "What are you talking about?" So finally, I stopped saying that, b! ut if you read any interviews for about an eight- or nine-year period there, it was all about how disappointed I was and how unhappy I was and what a dismal experience it was. You know, it's too bad you need to get kind of half a job done and never get to finish it. So this was my chance to finish it.

AP: Why not release both the originals and special editions on DVD?

Lucas: The special edition, that's the one I wanted out there. The other movie, it's on VHS, if anybody wants it. ... I'm not going to spend the, we're talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn't really exist anymore. It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be. I'm the one who has to take responsibility for it. I'm the one who has to have everybody throw rocks at me all the time, so at least if they're going to throw rocks at me, they're going to throw rocks at me for something I love rather than something I think is not very good, or at least something I think is not finished.

AP: Do you pay much attention to fan reactions to your choices?

Lucas: Not really. The movies are what the movies are. ... The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way.

AP: After "Episode III," will you ever revisit "Star Wars"?

Lucas: Ultimately, I'm going to probably move it into television and let other people take it. I'm sort of preserving the feature film part for what has happened and never go there again, but I can go off into various offshoots and things. You know, I've got offshoot novels, I've got offshoot comics. So it's very easy to say, "Well, OK, that's that genre, and I'll find a really talented person to take it and create it." Just like the comic books and the novels are somebody else's way of doing it. I don't mind that. Some of it might turn out to be pretty good. If I get the right people involved, it could be interesting.

[Dusty Chalk]

The thing I hate about his revisionism the most is actually from his first set of revisions. That thing about Han Solo shooting Greedo first (original film; paints Han Solo as a bit of a coward -- which he was! One of the subplots in that movie was about him not wanting to be a part of the rebellion and being selfish, and wanting the money so that he could pay Jabba back, and get the price off his head -- a perfectly realistic desire, if it was me), vs. Greedo shooting at point blank range first and missing, giving Han Solo a chance to shoot him in "self defense". Bleah. ralph

Here, this guy feels the same way (http://www.backwash.com/content.php?jouid=8014).

[Retardking]

I keep hearing how these little changes are "ruining" the trilogy for some. I can't believe that someone that likes the franchise cannot get enjoyment out of the new iterations. It makes me a little sad. The movies are still the same. There aren't any changes in plot. To me they make enough sense that, if you take two seconds to consider them, they really shouldn't bother you.

For example: Greedo missing and Han shooting second. If Han shoots first, it makes him a callous, cold person which he isn't (as we find as the movie wears on) and totally neglects his "scoundrel luck." By Greedo missing and Han shooting second, it reinforces these two qualities of Solo and subtly gives some character depth. He doesn't need to shoot first for him to have redemption later in the movie. He gets that by leaving with the loot and then returning at the end of the battle with the Millenium Falcon.

And now the end of Return of the Jedi, having a younger Anakin Skywalker. Why not? Since he no longer considered himself Anakin after he went to the Dark side, at that moment that's when he was dead to the light side of the force. He could not have been entirely on the light side of the force when he died, so why show him as old Anakin? The only person that should complain is the actor that played Old Anakin, for being cut out of the end of the movie.

There are a number of changes that I really liked. The Cloud City for one. So much more impressive than the original release. It was more of a cloud building than city in the original. Seeing the ice creature that captured Luke on Hoth was cool. The take off and landing of the Millenium Falcon and X-wings in the first movie are so much better, and that doesn't change the story line at all. The list goes on.

I also welcomed the new ending of Return of the Jedi. As much as I liked the old Ewok song at the end as a child, the new ending has a better sense of elation and closure which it sorely needed. To me it captured the feeling of having the Empire destroyed. The song is celebratory yet has a sense of sadness. Very effective in my book.

Yes, there are a few issues I have with the old trilogy. The scene with Jabba in the first one comes to mind, but only because it doesn't look good. Certainly doesn't ruin it for me.

Sorry this is lengthy, but to split hairs over the minutia is silly. I understand that having the originals would be a treat, but to Lucas they don't exist. If you don't like the movies because of the changes, fine, don't get them but complaining about it isn't going to get you anywhere. If he would've released these movies years ago, there is no way this kind of negativity would surround the movies. For a fan to deprive themself over these doesn't make sense. Lucas isn't bringing out the originals. And if he did, I bet people would complain that it's in 5.1EX and not the original Dolby stereo!

[Dusty Chalk]

I keep hearing how these little changes are "ruining" the trilogy for some. I can't believe that someone that likes the franchise cannot get enjoyment out of the new iterations. It makes me a little sad. The movies are still the same. There aren't any changes in plot. To me they make enough sense that, if you take two seconds to consider them, they really shouldn't bother you. Okay, agreed, point made. They are, indeed, minor, and shouldn't affect my overall enjoyment of the film. And I also agree that I did like some of the background stuff that he stuck in, particularly in the city with all the extra animals and such. But...
For example: Greedo missing and Han shooting second. If Han shoots first, it makes him a callous, cold person which he isn't (as we find as the movie wears on) and totally neglects his "scoundrel luck." By Greedo missing and Han shooting second, it reinforces these two qualities of Solo and subtly gives some character depth. He doesn't need to shoot first for him to have redemption later in the movie. He gets that by leaving with the loot and then returning at the end of the battle with the Millenium Falcon.No no no no no. I don't think you get it. Yes, we are nit-picking -- the criticism is minor, yet crucial. It's not that he is or isn't a scoundrel, it's that he starts as a scoundrel, and grows. Character growth -- it's essential.

Also, the problem is, the obviousness of the change. Greedo shouldn't miss from such close range, especially if he gets a shot off first. It's like seeing the director in front of the camera -- it's distracting, and ultimately ruinous (alright, maybe ruinous is too strong, but I'd rather it was not in there that way). It was obviously done purely for political correctness -- how can such a beloved hero be so cold-hearted? I don't have a problem with someone's history, I know that if you love someone, you can't hold their past against them.

OTOH -- we're giving him too much credit. He doesn't really stop being a scoundrel, he just changes his motivations. He starts as a cold-hearted mercenary (money -- which, we find out later, is to save his own skin), but has his heart melted by the princess (or, if you want to look at it more cold-hearted-ly, he's hoping to get laid). But it's still for her that he changes. Mostly. So, quite frankly, no big deal (that he's a scoundrel).
And now the end of Return of the Jedi, having a younger Anakin Skywalker. Why not?I actually don't got as much of a problem with this, except that he changed it. I think my issue is just that he changed it (revisionism). It's like colorizing.
The only person that should complain is the actor that played Old Anakin, for being cut out of the end of the movie. Good point.

[alumpkin]

The thing I hate about his revisionism the most is actually from his first set of revisions. That thing about Han Solo shooting Greedo first (original film; paints Han Solo as a bit of a coward -- which he was! One of the subplots in that movie was about him not wanting to be a part of the rebellion and being selfish, and wanting the money so that he could pay Jabba back, and get the price off his head -- a perfectly realistic desire, if it was me), vs. Greedo shooting at point blank range first and missing, giving Han Solo a chance to shoot him in "self defense". Bleah. ralph

Here, this guy feels the same way (http://www.backwash.com/content.php?jouid=8014).

Dusty, I totally agree. I rolled my eyes when I actually saw greedo shooting first. I mean greedo is pointing the gun at him the whole time at point blank range! I liked it a lot better when Solo was a tough guy and shot first. I think it also made more sense because it appears leading up the firing that if greedo shot first, he would kill Solo (for after all, it is not like he is reacting to solo, greedo shoots first).