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dvjorge
09-07-2004, 03:45 PM
Guys,

I have been reading and participating at this forum during more than two years. Like many of you, I have been spending many hours of my life in this hooby. People, Paradigm Studio are great speakers, more than good. Nobody can say another thing. Forget about RGA's opinion. It is more than clear he has something negative with them. His opinion won't change. Even Paradigm making the best speakers in the world, RGA won't accept it.
When you want to know which is the right speakers for you, go and listen and you will know. I have to thank Paradigm. I am a happy owner of studio 100 v2 and after many years of my life listening hi-fi staff, I can say the studio serie is one of the best for the money people have to enjoy at this time. IMO
Thanks,
Jorge.

RGA
09-07-2004, 04:16 PM
Umm I recommend Paradigm when they make a good speaker to my ear - I would give the V2 version of the Paradigm roughly the same I trating I gave to the current B&W 604S4 that I reviewed here. I also gave a Best Buy rating to the current model of the Paradigm Atom. The only reason I am perceived as disliking Paradigm is that this forum happens to talk about Paradigm more so than the other forums I go to. Paradigm is not the only company I will say something bad about if their product doesn't cut it for me.

You are correct that it just so happens that I don't care for the Paradigm sound generally. If you do that's fine by me - my recent reviews are geared fro people who may go out after reading endless reviews from magazines that love EVERYTHING and then after listening sort of say "Well they're OK but ____________"

I am disinterested in Home theater - many people won't go to Audio Note for that reason alone and then there is price. I have been the H/T route and IMO it's a major reason why so many speakers are so truly horrible today. I have my biases I stated them people reading them I presume take me with a healthy dose of salt. I don;t think anyone should BUY based of what I recommend.

I hope they might bother to spend 3-4 hours out of their life and compare something like the Studio 100 or the B&W 604 or 703 or speakers with similar looks from PSB Energy Veritas Totem etc directly against an AudioNote counterpart etc. Does not hurt people to audition - it does hurt to believe all the reviews in magazines that are kept afloat by advertising dollars. Reviewers are also given gifts to say good things about products wink wink nudge nudge.

The new V3 is not a bad speaker - IMO it should be $1700.00less expensive than it is.

N. Abstentia
09-07-2004, 05:47 PM
Bottom line is this...the Paradigm Studio Series is a killer speaker for the price. They should honestly cost twice as much as they do.

Does that mean they are the best speaker in the world? No. Does that mean everyone will love them? No. Everyones ears are different, and everyones tastes are different.

Personally, I love the Paradigm Studios. It took me 3 years to find the perfect set of speakers for me, and it was finally the Paradigm Active Studio 40 (which should actually cost FOUR times as much as it did, thanks to the amps built in). That doesn't mean that everyone should go buy them.

I remember when doing speaker auditions, the worst sounding speakers I heard were M&K. I wanted so much to like them, but to me they sound like metal. Some people love them. I also hated B&W, which to me sound flat and lifeless. Some people love them. I also checked out Wilson speakers just for kicks because my Paradigm dealer also carried them. I was not impressed at all. Not for $20,000 worth of speakers.

It's all in what you like. I also don't feel there is such a thing as 'best speaker in the world'. That's like saying 'the best looking woman in the world'. Everyone has their opinion, and everyone else's is wrong :)

Wireworm5
09-07-2004, 07:21 PM
Even if there are deficiantcies as RGA suggests in a certain Paradigm models wouldn't using multiple speakers mostly Paradigm in my case, make up for what might be lacking in another model? Or are they all lacking? The 100's for example have great lower bass, but I still use a sub to cover the bottom octaves. And what my Monitor 9's lack in treble are made up for by my B&W Dm601 S3.
Certainly if you can find a speaker that covers everything then that's what one should buy, value for money.

RGA
09-07-2004, 10:56 PM
Wireworm

Not sure I follow. I would rather One set of high end speakers ather than a set of 100s and Monitor 9s and 601s. It makes more sense to me to be able to listen to any music on one set of speakers without the need to try and integrate a subwoofer into the mix - causing more problems than it fixes IMO.

The 100V2 sasa goodspeaker for the money - the V3 has went up $500.00 and for $2700 IMO is not only not as good as the B&W 604S3 for $700.00Cdn LESS money but there are speakers for $2700.00Cdn right now you can attain that are in my view leagues better than the 100V3. IMOthe speaker is worse and ent up a LOT over the Better V2. It's not the first time a compnay brings aout a new line and the previous model soudned better - the Matrix series versus the Nautilus is one.

It's not an attack on them - but they ain't for me.

topspeed
09-07-2004, 11:46 PM
People, Paradigm Studio are great speakers, more than good. Nobody can say another thing. Watch me.

Paradigm speakers are not the best speakers in the world. They can be bettered at their respective price points, which is why I didn't buy them. Other people have auditioned and done the same. Sorry Jorge, people can say another thing.

Forget about RGA's opinion. But believe yours? What makes you more qualified than RGA, or anyone else for that matter? Does owning them make you unfairly biased?
It is more than clear he has something negative with them. His opinion won't change. Even Paradigm making the best speakers in the world, RGA won't accept it. Why should he change his opinion? It's his opinion. Are you so in need of his approval that you'll call him out like this? If you don't agree with him, don't read his posts.

When you want to know which is the right speakers for you, go and listen and you will know. I have to thank Paradigm. I am a happy owner of studio 100 v2 and after many years of my life listening hi-fi staff, I can say the studio serie is one of the best for the money people have to enjoy at this time. Glad you like them...although I'm still trying to fathom the reason for your post.

ToddB
09-07-2004, 11:58 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with you about Paradigm, and I have the Studio 20 v2 to prove it. But then again, I really like the sonic aspects that Paradigm prioritize in their designs, and I'm not as concerned with the sonic aspects that their speakers have as shortcomings.

It's not reasonable to expect that will be the case for everyone, though. While RGA certainly likes to talk about his distaste for most of Paradigm's offerings, he's no different than anyone else in that he has his own set of sonic preferences.

BillB
09-08-2004, 04:37 AM
I think we all agree that speaker taste is a truly personal one and that to buy anything based on a review or someone's post on an internet forum is quite silly.

People in this hobby baffle me. We all come to places like this forum to converse with like-minded people because in the real-world we're few and far between. Many people seem to come here to push their opinions on others that aren't perhaps as aware or are new to the hobby. While that is allowed it is a disservice to those seeking guidance. Other hobbies similar to ours (small numbers overall so they seek out others on the net) are much more welcoming and supportive of new members and each other.

I don't understand why people can't stick to the topic at hand. When someone specifically asks about amplifier A working with loudspeaker B why would someone bring up loudspeaker C without even addressing the original question first? It would seem they have an agenda to push.

I recently purchased a new digital camera that is complex for my experience. I joined a photography forum asking for beginner's guidance and not once did someone mention that I shouldn't have bought that camera. I know it's hard to believe but they stuck to the topic and actually answered my question.

If someone is so passionate about speaker A or cable B then start your own thread on it...you might attract other's that are just as passionate about it!

I'm sure all of us are aware of the "flavor of the month" companies we all see on this and other audio forums. The nOrh speakers were big here, SVS over at HomeTheaterForum, Rockets at AVSForum, etc. I have no problem with someone starting a thread expressing their enthusiasm for a particular company's products. The problem arises when those people begin inserting that enthusiasm into each and every thread they feel is remotely related and at the same time putting down particular pieces that were on topic to begin with.

When I visit HTGuide's forums I don't go into the Club Integra Forum and put down that brand and proclaim Rotel to be the best...that's trolling. A post on specific brands is just an extension of the same idea. A new guy asked about Amplifier X working with Speaker Y. If you have nothing to add to why that combination would or would not work but rather are there to push Speaker Z instead you are trolling. If the original post had asked what speaker might work with Amplifier X than it's open season to recommend your heart out.

Then again maybe that's just me and my opinion. I only chime in on posts where gear I've owned or situations I've experienced are of topic.

As always...MHO

Bill

jwh917
09-08-2004, 06:40 AM
I am new to this forum and would just like to add some obervations for paradigm speakers.My first venture into high end speakers was a pair of Paradigm Compact monitors back in the early 90's.I kept them for 4 years and to this day i regret selling them.To my ears they were simply incredibly lifelike speakers that conveyed true emotion.Something many high end speakers do not.Since then i have had Snell Acoustic speakers which are to my ears a little more accurate(less colored) than Paradigm,but don't convey the emotion to music as well.Speaker chioce is so incredibly subjective that no reviewer can say with authority what is the best.When i purchased my last pair of Snell QBX 25's i demoed them agaisnt a pair of B&W 602's and to my ears the Snell's trounced them;even though the salesman liked the B&W's better.Snell's have a house sound as do Paradigm's as do most high end speakers. I auditioned a pair of Proac's back in the 90's and listened for about an hour and they blew my socks off...but the funny thing was to my ears my Paradigm's gave me about 95% of the Proac's performance for less than half the price of the Proac's.For me and my hard earned coin Snell and Paradigm are my favorites...other's may strongly disagree..and for sure many higher priced speakers will give you more....but just how much is arguable.And for RGA...keep up your good work. ..i enjoy your somewhat over the top opnions.

kexodusc
09-08-2004, 07:33 AM
I wasn't going to enter this, but here goes...a few points:

I own the Studio 40's and 20's (v.2) along with the CC and PW-2200. They are used for Home Theater probably 80% of the time as I had (and will have in my new house) a dedicated studio for my instruments and 2-channel stereo. I do listen to some 2-channel music rather critically on the Paradigms, and multi-channel audio on occassion. I picked the 20's first (with the CC) based on their stereo performance capabilities mostly for the value offered. Music is how I tested them, not sure how else you could, really. I couldn't find a speaker that sounded better that fit my budget needs, though, until I visited Canada, they were probably my 3rd choice. I bought the 40's and eventually another pair of 20's later.

1) I'd bet my life that Paradigm probably does not make the best speakers in the world (and I wonder how you'd measure that anyway)

2) I do not know where the audiophile-elitist-wannabee's get off saying that speakers are being designed for Home Theater at the expense of Music reproduction, home theater is ruining hi-fi, yadda yadda. That's rubbish. Home Theater sounds are as diverse and probably even more diverse than Music, and if a speaker sounds good for one, it should sound good for the other. There may be characteristics that accentuate certain musical genres or special effects, but this is probably rather subtle at best. Speaker's don't have to be "full range" to sound good. And there's nothing wrong with incorporating a sub into the mix. In fact, if it wasn't for HT, I doubt there'd be as many great sounding speakers in the $1000 and below price range as there are today. I'd put a $300 speaker today against a $300 speaker of 10 years ago anyday...

3) The Studio Series is a good speaker. IMO it's a great speaker. It's certainly not the end-all be-all of the speaker world. The 20's and 40's are priced rather fairly in my opinion (especially if you get them in Canada with $200 of retail, a helluva deal I couldn't touch back in the US). Here in the US, they're competitive, but not a clear winner.

4) The Studio 100 is over priced IMO. I agree with RGA's Paradigm opinions almost never, but he's just right here. You could buy a couple of decent subs and run those in stereo with the 20's or 40's for the cost of the 100's. Not a huge fan of the Servo subs for the money either, knock off a few hundred and you'd have a real winner though. But this only my preference, I believe anyone who spends that kind of money on the Studio 100's is smart enough to determine that they've found what they're looking for.

5) The Studio series certainly shouldn't sell for 4 times as much (sorry N. Abstentia :) ), though they probably could while sounding better than some offerings at that price. But probably not most. I had the pleasure of listening to some Focus Audio speakers recently that are priced between 2 and 4 times the cost of the Studio v.3's at the same store. These really wowed me. Though, at 3 to 4 times the price, they don't offer 300% to 400% better frequency response, imaging, soundstage, etc, etc...diminishing returns etc, hence making the Studios (and others) an attractive buy.

6) This was a bad idea for a thread and should have been deleted by the moderators at the first mention of RGA's name in such a manner. His opinion is just as valid as anyone elses no matter how much I disagree with it. We might as well start a Denon is better than Yamaha flame war while we're at it...haven't had one in awhile.

N. Abstentia
09-08-2004, 07:42 AM
5) The Studio series certainly shouldn't sell for 4 times as much (sorry N. Abstentia :) ), .

I didn't say the Studio series..I said the Studio ACTIVE series :)

The Active 40's cost the same as the Studio 100's, and they buried the 100's in every way possible...even on low end extention. You'd have to bi-amp the 100's to make them sound as good at the A40's..which of course are already bi-amped! The fact that they should have cost 4 times as much is one reason they stopped making them!

kexodusc
09-08-2004, 07:59 AM
I didn't say the Studio series..I said the Studio ACTIVE series :)

The Active 40's cost the same as the Studio 100's, and they buried the 100's in every way possible...even on low end extention. You'd have to bi-amp the 100's to make them sound as good at the A40's..which of course are already bi-amped! The fact that they should have cost 4 times as much is one reason they stopped making them!

Hmmm, we'll have to agree to disagree then. To me the Active 40's didn't sound much better than the Studio 60's I compared them too at the time, maybe a bit though. I don't recall the Active's wowing me to the point I'd pay 5 to 10 K for them though, not even close. I decided against them in the end...I always thought they were discontinued because they weren't enough speaker for the money and the Studio's were a bit better value...goes to show how 2 pairs of ears can hear things differently. :)

BillB
09-08-2004, 08:15 AM
kexodusc made some really good points. In particular I agree with all but have a bone to pick with the last point. This thread seems to have been started by someone fed up and frustrated with RGA's recenty incessant pushing of Audio Note speakers.

His opinion that AN speakers are better than Paradigm's Studio Series is fine and he is entitled to that opinion. When he goes into a thread that simply asks if Rogue Audio's Model 88 amplifiers will work well with Paradigm Studio 100s pushing his new favorite AN without one mention of why the Paradigms would/wouldn't work (answering the question) with the Rogue Amps. It's kind of a misleading reply that is of no help to the person that posted the initial question:


,will a pair of rogue 88 have enough power the drive a pair of 100 v.3?

Geoffcin (moderator) had to chime in on the thread and I echo his sentiments:


He's asking about whether he's got enough power to DRIVE his speakers, and gets the old AN treatment.


This is not the first time a newbie has posted about speakers and gotten this bombardment.


Here's how we can solve this; You can open a thread on the good/bad points of AN speakers, and happily trade multipage posts with each other. Or; I will delete these off topic posts the next time I see one.

Bill

N. Abstentia
09-08-2004, 09:12 AM
Hmmm, we'll have to agree to disagree then. To me the Active 40's didn't sound much better than the Studio 60's I compared them too at the time, maybe a bit though. I don't recall the Active's wowing me to the point I'd pay 5 to 10 K for them though, not even close. I decided against them in the end...I always thought they were discontinued because they weren't enough speaker for the money and the Studio's were a bit better value...goes to show how 2 pairs of ears can hear things differently. :)

Yeah, saying they should sell for FOUR times what they did is probably a bit too much I guess.

Put it this way, they were $1900 which is the same as the Studio 100's (or was at the time). The Active 40's already had amps and electronic crossovers built in, so by the time I factored in the cost of 2 amps and an electronic crossover the 100's would have cost over $4000. Plus I don't like floorstanders so I would have went with the 40's anyway.

I think the reason that Paradigm quit selling them is that they were too much speaker for the money, and raising the price on them would have pretty much killed the market for them anyway. Most people in my situation would have probably just taken that $2000 and bought Studio 40's and a $600 amp and had $400 left over. But to me, the active bi-amping and no passive crossovers put the Active 40's over the top.

Funny you should mention the Studio 60's...I felt they were the worst sounding of all the Studio line! They are too big to put on stands, and too short for proper placement so I could never get them to sound right.

kexodusc
09-08-2004, 09:13 AM
(oh man, I'm rushing to RGA's defense?)

Okay, RGA goes a bit overboard sometimes with his love for AN and his grudge against Paradigm, but there was nothing wrong what what he did in that thread. The poster asked for <b>any</b> advice, RGA offered some...some of us might find it a bit tired and predictable, but there was nothing terribly wrong about it.
I'd rather people feel free to offer advice as they see fit than for us to start any more censorship here. Even if that means allowing fanboys to make sales pitches. You aren't paying for the advice, and don't even have to read it. Or, you can take RGA to task on what he says. When he does post about something other than AN or Paradigm, he's usually quite informative and a good addition here.

C'mon guys, what are the real odds that a newbie, let alone a seasoned audio enthusiast, will read RGA's post, take their Paradigm's back and rush right out and buy some Audio Note's without listening to them. What's the real harm here?

We've already got no DBT rules, do we need no Audio Note rules too?

Disciplining member's is the Admin/Moderator's job not a poster's.
I've always like ar.com because compared to so many other boards, it offers (IMO) the best balance of open exchange of all ideas and philosphies without brutal and rediculous flame wars, insults, etc (though we get our share here, just not as bad).

kexodusc
09-08-2004, 09:29 AM
Put it this way, they were $1900 which is the same as the Studio 100's (or was at the time). The Active 40's already had amps and electronic crossovers built in, so by the time I factored in the cost of 2 amps and an electronic crossover the 100's would have cost over $4000. Plus I don't like floorstanders so I would have went with the 40's anyway.

Hmmm, actually when you put it that way, they are kind of a good value if you didn't have amps already (I did). Never thought of it like that.
I think for $4000 you could get some better quality amps and crossovers, but yeah, still a good all in one solution if all you had was a receiver and wanted some more juice. I just didn't find they sounded a whole lot different or better than the regular Studio series, but the Studio's were hooked up to some Arcam gear or something, not a Sony receiver or anything like that,so there was enough power there.


Funny you should mention the Studio 60's...I felt they were the worst sounding of all the Studio line! They are too big to put on stands, and too short for proper placement so I could never get them to sound right.

I liked the 40's the best (though I find the 20's image just a shade better). The 100's were the worst IMO, followed by the 60's. The slight off-axis height factor of the 60's I think probably helps tame that tweeter just a tiny bit more, but I'm splitting hairs. The Studio's are a tad bit on the bright side, which I actually prefer, but sometimes it's nice to have a more laid back sound (especially on sub-par recordings).
I've always been a fan of the smaller speakers in product lines. I really think Paradigm and Energy did a bang-up job with the Mini Monitor and C-3 (forget the exact prices but I think they're just under $400). Their larger cousins don't impress me as much. For the price of a Monitor 7 you might as well get a Studio 20 or whatever...

N. Abstentia
09-08-2004, 09:47 AM
To be honest, I didn't give the 100's a hard, hard look because I knew I didn't have the power to drive them properly, and I knew I didn't want a speaker that big. I wasn't too overly impressed with what I did hear when comparing them to the 40's.

Now I'm torn on what to do for rear speakers. I WANT Studio 40's, but I just can't justify that $1000. I also thought about getting Monitor 5's since they are the same size as the 40's (would look good as a system) and they can handle lower frequencies better than the Atoms I'm using now (as a temporary solution). However now I'm throwing one more option into the mix...Studio 20's on taller (28") stands. I can probably get a pair of V2 20's used for around $500-ish which is the same ballpark as new Monitor 5's but I'm wondering how much I'll miss the lower end of a speaker like a Monitor 5 or Studio 40, as I would run it large but a Studio 20 would probably need to be 'small'.

Any thoughts on that? What's more important for rear surrounds..that extra bottom of a Monitor 5 or the slightly better SQ of the Studios? Dillemas!

RGA
09-08-2004, 09:55 AM
Bill

As I said in that thread however the poster did not actually own the Paradigm 100 but was planning to buy them and was wondering whether his Rogue's would power them. Given that the 100 is $2700.00 and given the amplifiers power I mentioned that my speakers are available for $2500.00Cdn at soundhounds - and to give them a try someplace before he makes the move. I figure give them a try before you leap into the 100s when it appeared that the poster was not a home theater person owning Rogue. Since I had just heard the two speakers I offerred an alternaative that would give the poster far more options even if you take sound out of the picture - there is no question the Rogue would drive the J. The J has more bass depth and microdynamics than the 100 and if he chooses to down the road he has the option to buy lower powered Single ended tube amps.

Questions like will a 70 watt amp drive X speaker the answer is always yes it will drive them - how well it will drive them no one here who does not have or sell that combination will truly know.

I did not say go buy Audio Note - The last thing I want is for anyone to buy without listening first. I'm luckier than some because I get to hear it against eachother in the same room with the same equipment - many people do not or only hear carbon copy designs from competitors - and if they're both IMO doing it wrong then you're just choosing the best of a bad bunch.

I also am fully aware that companies like nOhr have been flavour of the months. The difference is that Audio Note has been around for over 20 years(another 10 under Audio Note Japan now called Kondo) and many products go back 60+ years so it is not some internet only seller out of Taiwan. They are relatively new to me to be frank because they have limited dealers(and BTW that is by choice and the fact that most dealers don't have deep enough pockets to carry Audio Note). UHF has been reviewing for 20+ years and finally just reviewed an AN entry level CD player/DAC combo in issue 69. The reason was because Audio Note was selling systems that magazines could not afford with amplifiers in excess of $90kUS.

And besides if you don;t want to or can;t hear Audio Note - then heaven at least listen to PMC and Dynaudio before you take the Paradigms - they do the same kind of sound much better and don't cost much if any more. Just my opinion.

kexodusc
09-08-2004, 10:22 AM
I have a few suggestions for ya, N.
Studio 20's are fine for rears, I bought my last pair dirt cheap from a friend...In my experience, you won't need much bass response in rear effects, and depending how close they are to a wall or corner, the bass might not be all that anyway.
I had Titans as rears before I gave those to my folks. They were okay for $200 ish speakers.

I also had Mini-Monitors as rears for awhile, and to be honest, they worked, very, very well. They're a closer timbre-match to the Studio Series than Titans/Atoms IMO, and at most volumes, sound very similar to the Studio 20's with just a bit less performance in a few areas. I sold those to buy the 40's because I wanted more bass up front. Moved the 20's back as rears, and it wasn't much of an improvement over the Mini's (though it was a bit). If you're like me the sound quality factor (real or apparent) might just drive you nuts and you might want to have all Studio speakers, but you could buy Mini's used, try them out, and sell them if you don't like them...You'd be out what? $30 bucks for shipping?

Even in the multi-channel audio, the Mini's were pretty good. I would avoid the Monitor 5's and Studio 40's and pick either the Studio 20's or Mini Monitors. Might be a good compromise and save you some cash.

FWIW: I find setting the 40's and 20's to small and cutting off bass at 40 or 60 Hz (still haven't decided which) sounds better than setting them to large for anything multi-channel. Definitely 40 Hz for music. Bass really does lose directionality below 80Hz or so, and I can't think of one time where I thought bass should be in the surround field, but wasn't. I have no proof, but I swear the midrange sounds a bit better.
I had the side Studio 20's about 5-6 feet or so on the walls and the rears on some 42" stands I built to give me the best balance between HT ambience and multi channel use. This put the speaker at a height just over my head and well behind me when I was sitting. Worked really well.

BillB
09-08-2004, 10:26 AM
After living with an NHT SuperSeries setup for two years (SuperTwo, SuperCenter, SuperOne) then a Vienna Acoustics setup for another 2+ years (Mozarts, Maestro, Haydn) I went with my gut.

Back in '95 I got my first stereo and CD player. A year into it when I wanted better speakers I went against my gut and bought a pair of Bose 201's over a pair of Paradigm Titans. The Bose didn't last long.

When I decided to build a surround system I again went against my gut (ears) and chose the NHT SuperSeries setup over a Paradigm Monitor Series setup.

Third time's supposed to be a charm, this time I went for the best deal against my ears with the Vienna setup as I was employed on the corporate side at a retailer that carried them. The Studio Series (v2 at the time I believe) sounded better but my wallet wouldn't let me because of the deal on the Viennas.

4th time around I auditioned everything available in my price range (up to $5K including a sub if necessary). I ended up trusting my ears this time and am happier than ever with my system. I purchased a pair of 100's, 20's and a CC-470 all version 3 for $2450 US. The great bargain these speakers represented allowed me to upgrade my sub and my CD player and STILL be under budget!

Thank you Paradigm for building a wonderful product.

Bill

Luis31
09-08-2004, 10:41 AM
I had the side Studio 20's about 5-6 feet or so on the walls and the rears on some 42" stands I built to give me the best balance between HT ambience and multi channel use. This put the speaker at a height just over my head and well behind me when I was sitting. Worked really well.

kexodusc,

I don't mean to get off the main thread topic (sorry guys...), just curious, how far back from your main listening position do you have your Studio 20 rears? Also, how far apart do you have them?

Luis

RGA
09-08-2004, 11:23 AM
After living with an NHT SuperSeries setup for two years (SuperTwo, SuperCenter, SuperOne) then a Vienna Acoustics setup for another 2+ years (Mozarts, Maestro, Haydn) I went with my gut.

Back in '95 I got my first stereo and CD player. A year into it when I wanted better speakers I went against my gut and bought a pair of Bose 201's over a pair of Paradigm Titans. The Bose didn't last long.

When I decided to build a surround system I again went against my gut (ears) and chose the NHT SuperSeries setup over a Paradigm Monitor Series setup.

Third time's supposed to be a charm, this time I went for the best deal against my ears with the Vienna setup as I was employed on the corporate side at a retailer that carried them. The Studio Series (v2 at the time I believe) sounded better but my wallet wouldn't let me because of the deal on the Viennas.

4th time around I auditioned everything available in my price range (up to $5K including a sub if necessary). I ended up trusting my ears this time and am happier than ever with my system. I purchased a pair of 100's, 20's and a CC-470 all version 3 for $2450 US. The great bargain these speakers represented allowed me to upgrade my sub and my CD player and STILL be under budget!

Thank you Paradigm for building a wonderful product.

Bill

Glad you're happy - I have not heard Vienna - and for what it's worth I would take Paradigm over NHT any day of the week. I heard the NHT side firing subwoofer speaker trying to copy I presume the Snell B-Minor and the NHT's were a disaster IMO. Well so was the Snell for that matter. I was not impressed with the Zero standmounts either - which naturally like everything gets rave reviews. I know longer go by reviews because I don't need them anymore to make me feel good about what I buy. I'm glad you went with what you liked best to your ear - I may have selected something else - but listening is the only way to find out.

Had I listened and trusted my ears 10 years ago I would have a Sugden A21a Single Ended Solid State amplifier right now than spending a lot of money going through some amps that won awards and were well reviewed but not that great. I would also have a real turntable over the mediocre one I have right now.

We all have our regrets - it's a shame the internet wasn't around when I was buying - I would have been introduced to tube amps than dropping $2500.00 on a well reviewed Pioneer Elite receiver and Boston Acoustics Subwoofer. Man what a mistake those were - unlistenable dreck - pretty sad when subwoofers don't offer more bass than the Wharfedales I have.. At least my Marantz 4300 while also garbage was dirt cheap and serves as a headphone amp in the the other room(and as a tuner) - and no worse than the flagship Elite I had for two channel.

Ahh regrets. Chin up and move on.

kexodusc
09-08-2004, 12:46 PM
Luis 31: They're about 10 feet back and maybe 8 feet apart (give or take a foot, never measured the separation)...toed in a bit. Well they're in boxes somewhere in N.B. right now, my new room is just a tad smaller and I'll have to figure out a new setup once I take possession of the house Friday.

dvjorge
09-08-2004, 01:50 PM
You say when they make good speakers for your ears... but that isn't important for Paradigm, you might have the worse ears in the world who know? RGA, I don't have any particular problem with you. I am tired to read your posts and probably you my posts during long time here. Lately, when I see some guy posting something that says the world Paradigm, I see you attacking any positive opinion about Paradigm in every possible way. Time before, you were in love with Reference 3M, for you they were the best in this world. Ok, that's right...agree but let other taste other flavors. Now, you don't belive in any other thing than AN. Fabulous! Enjoy. Are the AN better than Paradigm? No, for you maybe.
Are the Studio Serie good speakers? Yes, they are. Are they hard to beat for their price? Yes, they are. Are they a good value-price? Yes, they are. Are they for HT ? No, they aren't. They are for both, music and home cinema. Are they state of the art? Yes, they are. Are they hi-end? Yes, they are. Can they compete with B&W and other hi-end speaker builders? Yes, they can. Are there many happy people who own them? Yes, there are. Is it an intelligent advice to recommend them? Yes, it is. Are they the best speakers in the world? No, they aren't. Are there other speakers which sound better than the Studio Serie in their price scale? A few that maybe you can count them with your fingers. So, Why to try to confuse people who are focused in them..... this the only thing I don't understand.
Jorge.

Luis31
09-08-2004, 02:05 PM
Luis 31: They're about 10 feet back and maybe 8 feet apart (give or take a foot, never measured the separation)...toed in a bit. Well they're in boxes somewhere in N.B. right now, my new room is just a tad smaller and I'll have to figure out a new setup once I take possession of the house Friday.

Thanks for your reply kexodusc,

I also have a pair of Studio 20 on 36" stands for rear surrounds. Although, I have plenty of room behind our couch on our dedicated HT/Music room (I can put them back as much as 10ft. as a matter of fact...), I only have them about 5ft. from the listening position. I like to put them further back, but I'm concern the paning effect between the side surrounds and back surrounds could be affected.

Your thoughts?

_Luis

kexodusc
09-08-2004, 02:56 PM
Thanks for your reply kexodusc,

I also have a pair of Studio 20 on 36" stands for rear surrounds. Although, I have plenty of room behind our couch on our dedicated HT/Music room (I can put them back as much as 10ft. as a matter of fact...), I only have them about 5ft. from the listening position. I like to put them further back, but I'm concern the paning effect between the side surrounds and back surrounds could be affected.

Your thoughts?

_Luis

I think you could do what you do with front main speakers. Start at your listening position, and make an equilateral triangle (all sides the same distance) from your head to one speaker, to the next, and back to your head. To in a bit and go from there.
My manual said to place the rears opposite the front mains...that's what I tried. Paning seemed to work better that way. You can move them closer if desired.
Experiment, it's fun!!!

topspeed
09-08-2004, 02:59 PM
You say when they make good speakers for your ears... but that isn't important for Paradigm, you might have the worse ears in the world who know? RGA, I don't have any particular problem with you. I am tired to read your posts and probably you my posts during long time here. Lately, when I see some guy posting something that says the world Paradigm, I see you attacking any positive opinion about Paradigm in every possible way. Time before, you were in love with Reference 3M, for you they were the best in this world. Ok, that's right...agree but let other taste other flavors. Now, you don't belive in any other thing than AN. Fabulous! Enjoy. Are the AN better than Paradigm? No, for you maybe.
Are the Studio Serie good speakers? Yes, they are. Are they hard to beat for their price? Yes, they are. Are they a good value-price? Yes, they are. Are they for HT ? No, they aren't. They are for both, music and home cinema. Are they state of the art? Yes, they are. Are they hi-end? Yes, they are. Can they compete with B&W and other hi-end speaker builders? Yes, they can. Are there many happy people who own them? Yes, there are. Is it an intelligent advice to recommend them? Yes, it is. Are they the best speakers in the world? No, they aren't. Are there other speakers which sound better than the Studio Serie in their price scale? A few that maybe you can count them with your fingers. So, Why to try to confuse people who are focused in them..... this the only thing I don't understand.
Jorge.Look Jorge, I'm as sick of RGA's incessant deification of AN as the next guy. And while I'm in no way trying to stand up for him(he's a big boy, he can do it himself) I find your ranting rather ironic. Here you are chastising a guy for dithering on about AN and yet your Paradigm's are on no less a pedestal. I've got news for you, the Studio's aren't "hi-end", whatever that is. Ask Paradigm and they'll probably agree. That's why they have their Signature line. The Studio's are mid-fi, much in the same way B&W's 700's and Monitor Audio's Gold lines are. Understand that I'm not slighting the 100's in any way, in fact think they are pretty decent speakers.

I'm glad you like your Studio's, that's what this hobby is all about. However, you need to grow up, put your ego in check, and realize that on a public forum, there are going to be people that will disagree with you. Get over it.

Jim Clark
09-08-2004, 03:41 PM
Look Jorge, I'm as sick of RGA's incessant deification of AN as the next guy.

LOL. I guess I am the next guy. j/k of course. Well, kinda. Nah, I am, I suppose...

Truth be told, he cracks me up for a variety of reasons.

jc

kexodusc
09-08-2004, 03:45 PM
Couldn't we all just get along? :)

RGA
09-08-2004, 03:58 PM
You say when they make good speakers for your ears... but that isn't important for Paradigm, you might have the worse ears in the world who know? RGA, I don't have any particular problem with you. I am tired to read your posts and probably you my posts during long time here. Lately, when I see some guy posting something that says the world Paradigm, I see you attacking any positive opinion about Paradigm in every possible way. Time before, you were in love with Reference 3M, for you they were the best in this world. Ok, that's right...agree but let other taste other flavors. Now, you don't belive in any other thing than AN. Fabulous! Enjoy. Are the AN better than Paradigm? No, for you maybe.
Are the Studio Serie good speakers? Yes, they are. Are they hard to beat for their price? Yes, they are. Are they a good value-price? Yes, they are. Are they for HT ? No, they aren't. They are for both, music and home cinema. Are they state of the art? Yes, they are. Are they hi-end? Yes, they are. Can they compete with B&W and other hi-end speaker builders? Yes, they can. Are there many happy people who own them? Yes, there are. Is it an intelligent advice to recommend them? Yes, it is. Are they the best speakers in the world? No, they aren't. Are there other speakers which sound better than the Studio Serie in their price scale? A few that maybe you can count them with your fingers. So, Why to try to confuse people who are focused in them..... this the only thing I don't understand.
Jorge.

I am not too interested in other people's opinion of Paradigm or Audio Note or any other speaker. If you think Paradigm is high end that's fine. If you think they compete with more expensive speakers that's fine too. I don;t think the current paradigm's even compete with their predecessor let alon other speakers.

There is a love on for B&W too. And I can count numerous reviews that say soemthing at the end like "This speaker competes with others at double the money" or something along those lines. Of course this is not a lie because Bang and Olluffson makes very expensive garbage so it's easy to say Paradigm makes speakers beating some at doublt the money = I might even agree when you're talking about B&O.

I make no pretense that I'm right - I state my reviews subjectively and I said that, I tell people before I started the Audio Note reviews to ignore them because I am biased toward their sound(and I also realize people are tired of my one note tone. I laid my bias up-front I stated the reason why I like them.

I tell no one to buy without hearing (That would be a disaster no matter how good the reviews or even if you think you might have similar tastes to me). The Paradigm Atom is good value for money - better than that and I reviewed them on my 3rd page I think.

You are more than welcome to read Stereophile magazine which i have no doubt will place the 100 in their recommended componants listing - Hmm - I'm betting Class B - let's see If I'm right. The 705 hmm I'm betting Class B Low frequency limited. We'll find out in November I believe.

What will be better to you will depend on you. I know what is better for me. I'd continue to recommend Reference 3a's MM De Capo. Daniel Dehay has retired from Reference 3a and new designs have been coming out which I have not heard so I can't say anything about them. They are very musical loudspeakers - but I did buy the AN K over the De Capo because of the midrange voicing. The AN K sounds more accurate(or less warm depending how you look at it).

By all means Dvorge you are more than welcome to ignore Audio Note and or any recommendation I make - like I have said - it is for people who go out and ACTUALLY listen for several hours, BEFORE they buy, and who are generally unhappy with most of what they're hearing. If people fall into that camp then here is a totally other sound to try out. If you love what you hear in those other usual suspects products then you don't need to be on this forum - you certainly don't need my advice and you certainly don't need Audio Note. But I suspect that people who go out and listen and then hum and haw and feel unsure are probably feeling unsure for a good reason. No harm in trying something different is there Dvorge? It's not like nOhr where you have to buy first and listen second.

Audio Note has no product literature, they don't talk about specs - They want you to listen against any other brand you can in the same room with the same gear. Now how can this be bad advice.

kexodusc
09-08-2004, 04:28 PM
Guys, couldn't we all get back to picking fights with moderators and administrators again? That was more fun than The World vs. RGA.
Give the guy a break already...
Someone please, stop the insanity.

Woochifer
09-08-2004, 04:34 PM
Yeah, saying they should sell for FOUR times what they did is probably a bit too much I guess.

Put it this way, they were $1900 which is the same as the Studio 100's (or was at the time). The Active 40's already had amps and electronic crossovers built in, so by the time I factored in the cost of 2 amps and an electronic crossover the 100's would have cost over $4000. Plus I don't like floorstanders so I would have went with the 40's anyway.

I think the reason that Paradigm quit selling them is that they were too much speaker for the money, and raising the price on them would have pretty much killed the market for them anyway. Most people in my situation would have probably just taken that $2000 and bought Studio 40's and a $600 amp and had $400 left over. But to me, the active bi-amping and no passive crossovers put the Active 40's over the top.

Actually, Paradigm quit selling the Active series because they sold poorly (same reason why they quit offering the wood veneer finish with the Studio series), but that's pretty much the story of powered monitors in the North American market in general -- buyers just aren't ready for them. With so many people vested in their amplifier purchases, they're not going to junk them for an active speaker, despite the design's many inherent advantages.

If there's any room for a breakthrough in the active speaker market, I have a feeling that it will come in the form of digital monitors, where instead of analog interconnects, the speakers will use digital inputs and have the DACs built in.

topspeed
09-08-2004, 04:38 PM
Just for the record, I wasn't slamming RGA. He readily admits he pushes AN too much, so it wasn't like I was letting the cat out of the bag or anything...

Maybe we should start another ss vs. tube thread or mention the "B" word? Those always provide good kindling for a few flames ;).

Woochifer
09-08-2004, 04:44 PM
Guys,

I have been reading and participating at this forum during more than two years. Like many of you, I have been spending many hours of my life in this hooby. People, Paradigm Studio are great speakers, more than good. Nobody can say another thing. Forget about RGA's opinion. It is more than clear he has something negative with them. His opinion won't change. Even Paradigm making the best speakers in the world, RGA won't accept it.
When you want to know which is the right speakers for you, go and listen and you will know. I have to thank Paradigm. I am a happy owner of studio 100 v2 and after many years of my life listening hi-fi staff, I can say the studio serie is one of the best for the money people have to enjoy at this time. IMO
Thanks,
Jorge.

As others have pointed out, speakers are a VERY subjective area here since every speaker out there makes significant compromises of some kind. The speakers that we individually prefer are the ones whose compromises we can live with. IMO, RGA frequently goes overboard with his oft-stated writings on various speaker models, and more often than not, I disagree with him. But, does that make him wrong? Of course not.

Conversely, I own a set of Paradigm Studio series speakers. Are they the best speakers in their price range? They are at least the speakers in my price range that best fit my preferences and uses, so for ME they are the best ones. Whether or not they are the best for anybody else is an entirely different question. It's fine to like your speakers, I know that I do, but with so much variation between speakers out there, there are bound to be plenty of people out there that don't like Paradigm at all.

Geoffcin
09-08-2004, 04:50 PM
Guys, couldn't we all get back to picking fights with moderators and administrators again? That was more fun than The World vs. RGA.
Give the guy a break already...
Someone please, stop the insanity.

(oh man, I'm rushing to RGA's defense?)

We've already got no DBT rules, do we need no Audio Note rules too?

Disciplining member's is the Admin/Moderator's job not a poster's.
I've always like ar.com because compared to so many other boards, it offers (IMO) the best balance of open exchange of all ideas and philosphies without brutal and rediculous flame wars, insults, etc (though we get our share here, just not as bad).

If we just had rules then a computer program could do all the moderating. Program it to delete all the prases like "Audio Note rules", or "Paradigm sucks", and be done with it.

AR has real live moderators here now. Enthusiasts just like yourselves.
There's not ONE post about AN speakers, or any other speaker that I've cut, and I don't think any have been by any of the moderators.

I would never let a flame war break out here, and I did consider editing the post because of it's direct attack on RGA. After consideration I decided to leave it. What ever your opinions are of RGA, I'm sure he can, and will stick up for his opinions. (in 500 words or more sometimes!) But, if RGA get's upset and yells "stop the insanity" I will be more than happy to moderate in his behalf.

Woochifer
09-08-2004, 05:09 PM
To be honest, I didn't give the 100's a hard, hard look because I knew I didn't have the power to drive them properly, and I knew I didn't want a speaker that big. I wasn't too overly impressed with what I did hear when comparing them to the 40's.

Now I'm torn on what to do for rear speakers. I WANT Studio 40's, but I just can't justify that $1000. I also thought about getting Monitor 5's since they are the same size as the 40's (would look good as a system) and they can handle lower frequencies better than the Atoms I'm using now (as a temporary solution). However now I'm throwing one more option into the mix...Studio 20's on taller (28") stands. I can probably get a pair of V2 20's used for around $500-ish which is the same ballpark as new Monitor 5's but I'm wondering how much I'll miss the lower end of a speaker like a Monitor 5 or Studio 40, as I would run it large but a Studio 20 would probably need to be 'small'.

Any thoughts on that? What's more important for rear surrounds..that extra bottom of a Monitor 5 or the slightly better SQ of the Studios? Dillemas!

The height on those 40s will make it somewhat difficult to properly position them for surround use. Ideally, you want the drivers above ear level (that's what Dolby recommends for systems that will be used for both movies and multichannel music), and the Studio 40's height would make it pretty difficult to balance on a tall stand. I use the Studio 20s as surrounds, and the squatter profile of that model gives you more flexibility with the placement.

If you're using the 40s up front, the 20s are an excellent timbre match for that model. The Monitor 5 will not give you nearly as good a timbre match, and in a 5.1 configuration, the timbre matching trumps all other considerations. Believe me, when you get a good timbre match and properly align the speakers, the true potential of surround sound really comes out. The stability of the side imaging, the size of the soundstage, and the depth perception really come to life when you use timbre matched speakers. Two-channel playback of any kind simply cannot convey that effect to this degree.

The only noticeable difference between the 20 and 40 is in the low frequencies, and in a multichannel configuration, you're probably going to want to set the 20s to "Small" anyway and redirect the lows into either the sub or the mains. As Kex said, the surround channels for most movies will not contain a lot of low frequency information. With multichannel music, there might be more in the lows.

Woochifer
09-08-2004, 05:18 PM
Thanks for your reply kexodusc,

I also have a pair of Studio 20 on 36" stands for rear surrounds. Although, I have plenty of room behind our couch on our dedicated HT/Music room (I can put them back as much as 10ft. as a matter of fact...), I only have them about 5ft. from the listening position. I like to put them further back, but I'm concern the paning effect between the side surrounds and back surrounds could be affected.

Your thoughts?

_Luis

Ideally, you would have all speakers equidistant from the listening position. The panning effect is best if the speakers are the same distance, and arranged with the surrounds slightly behind the listening position. The ITU multichannel reference placement specifies 30 degrees off-center for the mains and 110 degrees off center for the surrounds in a 5.1 configuration. Dolby's guidelines recommend raising the surround speakers above ear level and pointed directly at one another, if the system will be used for both movies and surround music. This is how I have my system aligned, and it's by far the best sounding arrangement that I've tried. (see pic link below)

http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=15&password=&sort=1&size=medium&cat=500&page=1

If you have the mains and the surrounds setup a different distances from the listening position, then you need to change the delay timing by about 1 ms on your receiver's setup menu for every foot of difference in the distance between the mains and the surrounds (newer receivers let you enter the distance, and will compensate for the delay automatically). Just make sure that you use a SPL meter to check the levels for all speakers.

kexodusc
09-08-2004, 05:26 PM
Ah, geez, Geofficin...I'm just tryin' to lighten things up here. He brings it on himself, but there's usually more exciting topics than RGA and Audio Note bashing.
Actually, the moderators have been pretty good so far. I was just making fun of the fact the mob here seems to pick a new public enemy to gang up on every week. Bose, DBT's Audio Note, RGA, the Moderators, etc...
Cut me some slack, I'm all alone in a motel in Boston with my computer and only 3 beer left...

Geoffcin
09-08-2004, 05:37 PM
Ah, geez, Geofficin...I'm just tryin' to lighten things up here. He brings it on himself, but there's usually more exciting topics than RGA and Audio Note bashing.
Actually, the moderators have been pretty good so far. I was just making fun of the fact the mob here seems to pick a new public enemy to gang up on every week. Bose, DBT's Audio Note, RGA, the Moderators, etc...
Cut me some slack, I'm all alone in a motel in Boston with my computer and only 3 beer left...

For beer that is. Take a trip over to John Harvard's, or Commonwealth Brewing. If you want to stay in they can fill your growler for you, or pick up a six-pack of Ipswich Ale from one of the local package stores. Best bottled ale this side of the prime meridian.

Yes, it does seem like we've got a gang of English Soccer fans in here sometimes. (Imagine being banned from whole continents?!)

RGA
09-08-2004, 06:08 PM
Kex gotta try some Sleeman's Honey Brown.

topspeed
09-08-2004, 07:38 PM
That Ipswich is good stuff indeed. The wife's family is from Bahston so we go there quite often. Cool town, absolute Hell to drive in. The Big Dig has everything so assbackwards that half the time my nav system said I was driving in the middle of the Charles River and those infernal roundabouts should have stayed on the other side of the pond. Great city tho.

Throw one back for me KC.

BillB
09-09-2004, 04:01 AM
kexodusc & Geoffcin:

http://www.victorybeer.com/

Find a place near you that carries their beer and thank me later.

Bill

kexodusc
09-09-2004, 04:23 AM
Funny you mentioned soccer, Geoffcin...there were tons of foreign Soccer fans at the airport talking about Honduras upsetting Costa Rica or something...not a follower, but I guess World Cup qualifying is going on? The airport was "very colorful" to say the least.

Sleeman's Honey ain't bad....but when I'm back in Canada I'm slamming back my favorite three...Keith's Pale Ale, Kokanee's Glacier Beer, and Moosehead Green...maybe some good ol' Molson while I'm at it...hell, even the Bud tastes better up there.
When it comes to fried chicken, nobody can touch the USA (and I loves me some good fried chicken), but man oh man, nobody makes beer like they do up north.
Oh, Canada! :D

Luis31
09-09-2004, 07:34 AM
If you have the mains and the surrounds setup a different distances from the listening position, then you need to change the delay timing by about 1 ms on your receiver's setup menu for every foot of difference in the distance between the mains and the surrounds (newer receivers let you enter the distance, and will compensate for the delay automatically). Just make sure that you use a SPL meter to check the levels for all speakers.

Thanks for the advice, Woochifer

Nice system you got there! I really like your stands for the Studio 20's. My surrounds and mains are not at the same distance from the listening position. Mains are 9ft from the sweet spot, while the surrounds are approximately 5ft. The Denon AVR-5803 allows you to enter the distances of each speaker to the listening position, so I entered the "actual" distances.

Do I still need to add additional delay or am I OK as it is?

-Luis

kexodusc
09-09-2004, 07:49 AM
Hey there, Wooch, where did you get those wall hangings behind your speakers in the gallery picture of your system? (I know you've probably talked about this before, but you post so often I couldn't find it). Just saw the room in my new house, I gotta feeling I'm gonna need some rather soon.

BTW: Whatever happened to the baker's rack? :D

Woochifer
09-09-2004, 08:06 AM
Thanks for the advice, Woochifer

Nice system you got there! I really like your stands for the Studio 20's. My surrounds and mains are not at the same distance from the listening position. Mains are 9ft from the sweet spot, while the surrounds are approximately 5ft. The Denon AVR-5803 allows you to enter the distances of each speaker to the listening position, so I entered the "actual" distances.

Do I still need to add additional delay or am I OK as it is?

-Luis

Thanx! Those stands are probably overkill for most people, but I wanted to elevate my speakers over 40" and there are very few tall stands out there that can support a speaker as heavy as the 20s. You're fine up to about 36", but anything taller than that is not easy to find. Those stands actually weigh 65 lbs. each, so they will break a leg before they accidentally tip over! The first gallery pic has links to the manufacturer's site if you're interested in finding out more about them.

As far as your receiver settings go, if you enter the actual distances, then the receiver should automatically do the delay timing. If you want to make the surround effect feel more spacious, you can enter a shorter distance for the surrounds and that will increase the delay.

Woochifer
09-09-2004, 08:16 AM
Hey there, Wooch, where did you get those wall hangings behind your speakers in the gallery picture of your system? (I know you've probably talked about this before, but you post so often I couldn't find it). Just saw the room in my new house, I gotta feeling I'm gonna need some rather soon.

BTW: Whatever happened to the baker's rack? :D

Baker's rack?! Man, you haven't checked the gallery in a while! I got that Salamander audio rack around the holidays last year because my wife wanted to reclaim that baker's rack that I was using before. So, instead of a HDTV, I wound up with an audio rack! But, I must admit that it looks pretty slick and I especially like the perforated metal door, which conceals the components but still allows you to use a remote.

As far as the wall hangings go, those are homemade acoustic panels. I just took some acoustic ceiling panels, wrapped them in rag cloth, clamped a couple of wood strips, and then hung them off of a molding. They actually make a decent bit of improvement in the imaging because they eliminate some of the reflections off the backwall, which is close enough to create a time domain distortion. I linked some of my previous posts about those acoustic panels in the gallery comments. Look it up and you can read about it.

http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=16&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

Luis31
09-09-2004, 10:43 AM
Woochifer,

Out of curiosity,

Are you using the brass "gold plated" jumpers that come with the Studio 20's? I did for the longest time until I experimented with a "very short" 4" cut of the same speaker wire I have connected to the speakers and felt it worked better. With the stock, brass jumper the tweeter sounded somewhat "edgy". The wire jumper took the "edginess" away...

BillB
09-09-2004, 03:19 PM
Here's how I've got my 20's set up:

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio/500/230249Theater_018.jpg

Bill