Finally heard Focus Audio FS-688 and FS-788, long (boring?) review. [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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kexodusc
08-31-2004, 11:33 AM
After hearing about these speakers for a long time, I actually stumbled into a dealer after I got stood up by my sister for lunch!!! I always love wasting salespeople's time listening to speakers that my significant (sm)other would never allow me to buy.

For those who don't know, the FS-688 is a bookshelf priced at $3000 (USD) and the 788 is a floorstander at $5000. There's an even larger model, cleverly dubbed the 888 that I didn't have time to try out, the guy was just setting them up.
For reference purposes, the only speakers this guy had that I had even heard of was the Energy Veritas 2.4i's(floorstander), which I think retailed at $3900 or so...right in between the two Focus Audios.

Without making this too long, I'll just talk briefly about what I really liked and didn't like about these. Everything was played on a pretty modest Arcam Integrated but I can't remember if it was the A85 or A65...either way, a really nice unit.

First, let me say that these speakers have as wide, and deep a soundstage as I have ever heard in a speaker. The Veritas (which I find are really good, but expensive) couldn't even touch these when it comes to soundstaging. I know they would wipe the floor with my Studio 40's, but they cost more than double.

Another area they really smoked the Veritas in was the highs. These things have a glorious Scan-Speak textile-dome tweeter (Revelator) that alone cost about $240 each. I don't have the audiophile words to descripe how good this tweeter makes things sound, but let me just say that cymbals had that certain "snap" to the clanginess that makes you feel like they're right there. I love good treble, and these things ooze it.

They imaged very, very well, but this was one area where the Veritas did a little bit better. Almost too well though, in my opinion...the Veritas have a very tight sweet spot and reduce the illusion of a center image to a really small dot, in my opinion. This might just be my preferences, though. I was surprised that the larger Veritas imaged better than the bookshelf 688's though, usually I find bookshelfs have an advantage here.

The midrange was excellent, you'd swear the band was right in front of you if you closed your eyes. I'm not a magazine writer so I won't put something lame in here, but take my word for it, these things have a really rich sound to them. I actually prefered the bass in the 688's to that of the 788's, despite giving up some bottom end, it was a bit tighter. Oddly enough, the midrange was better on the larger 788's...hard to describe, you had to be there.

For $3000 - $5000 you get a beautiful veneer finish you could put in anybody's room, and the best high frequency response I've heard in a speaker yet. And that 3-D soundstage ability that actually raised my eyebrows.

While I really enjoyed the brief time I was listening to these, a few things were re-enforced in my mind:

1) You get less, and less in speakers as you spend more, and more. I'd say the FS-688 could handle the Veritas and any of Paradigm's Signature series, and even hold their own agains some $5000 Klipsch K-Horns in a head to head fight, but the FS-788 was $2000 more for a bit more bottom response, and a slightly better midrange. Furthermore, I can't help but think how good some $500 and $1000 speakers sound to all of these models considering they're a fraction of the price.

2) Frequency response charts mean absolutely nothing!!! The specs on these things was 45 Hz (and 35 Hz) to 20kHz, +/- 3!!! This is kind of bare minimum average at best..but these things sound great in spite of this...(unless they under-rate their frequency responses for some reason)
Anyhoo...always fun drive the hell out of somebody's future speakers, especially when they cost a weekend ski-trip in the Alps!!!

2) Europeans make the best drivers for some reason
3)

Pat D
08-31-2004, 05:06 PM
After hearing about these speakers for a long time, I actually stumbled into a dealer after I got stood up by my sister for lunch!!! I always love wasting salespeople's time listening to speakers that my significant (sm)other would never allow me to buy.

For those who don't know, the FS-688 is a bookshelf priced at $3000 (USD) and the 788 is a floorstander at $5000. There's an even larger model, cleverly dubbed the 888 that I didn't have time to try out, the guy was just setting them up.
For reference purposes, the only speakers this guy had that I had even heard of was the Energy Veritas 2.4i's(floorstander), which I think retailed at $3900 or so...right in between the two Focus Audios.

Without making this too long, I'll just talk briefly about what I really liked and didn't like about these. Everything was played on a pretty modest Arcam Integrated but I can't remember if it was the A85 or A65...either way, a really nice unit.

First, let me say that these speakers have as wide, and deep a soundstage as I have ever heard in a speaker. The Veritas (which I find are really good, but expensive) couldn't even touch these when it comes to soundstaging. I know they would wipe the floor with my Studio 40's, but they cost more than double.

Another area they really smoked the Veritas in was the highs. These things have a glorious Scan-Speak textile-dome tweeter (Revelator) that alone cost about $240 each. I don't have the audiophile words to descripe how good this tweeter makes things sound, but let me just say that cymbals had that certain "snap" to the clanginess that makes you feel like they're right there. I love good treble, and these things ooze it.

They imaged very, very well, but this was one area where the Veritas did a little bit better. Almost too well though, in my opinion...the Veritas have a very tight sweet spot and reduce the illusion of a center image to a really small dot, in my opinion. This might just be my preferences, though. I was surprised that the larger Veritas imaged better than the bookshelf 688's though, usually I find bookshelfs have an advantage here.

The midrange was excellent, you'd swear the band was right in front of you if you closed your eyes. I'm not a magazine writer so I won't put something lame in here, but take my word for it, these things have a really rich sound to them. I actually prefered the bass in the 688's to that of the 788's, despite giving up some bottom end, it was a bit tighter. Oddly enough, the midrange was better on the larger 788's...hard to describe, you had to be there.

For $3000 - $5000 you get a beautiful veneer finish you could put in anybody's room, and the best high frequency response I've heard in a speaker yet. And that 3-D soundstage ability that actually raised my eyebrows.

While I really enjoyed the brief time I was listening to these, a few things were re-enforced in my mind:

1) You get less, and less in speakers as you spend more, and more. I'd say the FS-688 could handle the Veritas and any of Paradigm's Signature series, and even hold their own agains some $5000 Klipsch K-Horns in a head to head fight, but the FS-788 was $2000 more for a bit more bottom response, and a slightly better midrange. Furthermore, I can't help but think how good some $500 and $1000 speakers sound to all of these models considering they're a fraction of the price.

2) Frequency response charts mean absolutely nothing!!! The specs on these things was 45 Hz (and 35 Hz) to 20kHz, +/- 3!!! This is kind of bare minimum average at best..but these things sound great in spite of this...(unless they under-rate their frequency responses for some reason)
Anyhoo...always fun drive the hell out of somebody's future speakers, especially when they cost a weekend ski-trip in the Alps!!!

2) Europeans make the best drivers for some reason
3)
They sound like interesting speakers. You seem an intelligent listener and I can understand what your are saying, which isn't true with everyone. I will have to make it a point to listen to them sometime when we visit a locale where someone carries them.

I wouldn't say speaker measurements mean nothing. Actually, all three (including the Energy here) measure very well, by the way, and you can find the NRC measurements on the Soundstage site:

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/speakermeasurements/

I must say I was very favorably impressed with the Paradigm Reference Signature series and I heard the S8 with a great variety of material. I didn't hear the S2 for as long nor with as great a variety of material but I liked them a lot. I'm sure I could live happily with either one but since I have a big subwoofer, I would see no need to get a big speaker like the S8.

Their measurements look a little better to me than the Focus Audio speakers, but that's no guarantee I would like them better. There's nothing in them that would screen them out for me.

kexodusc
09-01-2004, 03:41 AM
I tried out some of the Signatures several months ago, and I was impressed with how good they sounded. Certainly Paradigm's best speaker, that company has always been (at least in my mind) a value leader, making some great inexpensive speakers. The only problem was I didn't realize at the time that they cost more than double their Studio series counterparts. I own a few Studio series speakers, and for the most part I like them. They were the best home theater speakers I could afford at the time. When I listened to the Signatures, compared to the V.3 Studio series, I thought they had futher refined the sound. I expected a modest increase in price of a few hundred per speaker. Not double.
But that's the rule of thumb when it comes to speakers. Sound improvements are definitely not in direct correlation with cost.

I will say that Focus Audio uses superior drivers to anything Paradigm can make. These speakers "looked" like they should be that expensive. I just can't get my mind to accept the cost of the Signature series.

Either way, it'll be a long time before I dump that kind of money on speakers.

Pat D
09-01-2004, 02:43 PM
I tried out some of the Signatures several months ago, and I was impressed with how good they sounded. Certainly Paradigm's best speaker, that company has always been (at least in my mind) a value leader, making some great inexpensive speakers. The only problem was I didn't realize at the time that they cost more than double their Studio series counterparts. I own a few Studio series speakers, and for the most part I like them. They were the best home theater speakers I could afford at the time. When I listened to the Signatures, compared to the V.3 Studio series, I thought they had futher refined the sound. I expected a modest increase in price of a few hundred per speaker. Not double.
But that's the rule of thumb when it comes to speakers. Sound improvements are definitely not in direct correlation with cost.

I will say that Focus Audio uses superior drivers to anything Paradigm can make. These speakers "looked" like they should be that expensive. I just can't get my mind to accept the cost of the Signature series.

Either way, it'll be a long time before I dump that kind of money on speakers.
Yes, they are expensive all right, though there are lots of lesser speakers that cost more yet. My PSB Stratus Minis are doing so well I find it hard to justify spending more.

I personally think they are more neutral than the Studio 40, v. 3. though the Paradigms are rather more sensitive and no doubt can play louder and somewhat deeper. I haven't been able to hear the Paradigm S2 speakers for some months, much less A-B them with the Stratus Minis. The Stratus Minis are balanced somewhat differently and throw a more distant image but I really am not certain which is better.

Jimmy C
09-01-2004, 02:51 PM
...at all. As a matter of fact, one of Jimmy's favorite things is listening to new stereo equipment! Nerdy, but what can I say :^)

Well, I suppose you have learned the law of diminishing returns. You can buy a $200, "decent" VERY entry-level speaker and 99% of the population would be happy, no questions asked. Then, one can spend in the vicinity of $1K-$2K and realize BIG improvements. O.K., pile on 5x that rough pricing scale, and I start to hedge. My "sweet spot" for speakers would probably be in the $1.5K-$2.5K level. After that, the bass seems to go deeper (maybe) and a better sense of scale (very room-dependant)... BUT, the mids and highs are largely the same. Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind sampling a host of $5-$10,000 speakers and see which I liked best... it's just that I'm disappointed moreso than enamored with high-priced speakers.

Another aspect you mentioned was the tiny images... I have a pair of Studio 60s that I have had good luck with, but the image may be TOO focused - very pin-point, but now I feel it's a bit off. I don't regard my M20s as the best imagers (they're not) BUT they will portray a realistic sized-instrument, whether the speaker is away from the wall or not.

Hhmmm... now for that Conrad-Johnson demo.

If I could just stop being so "careful with money" (Seinfeld...lol)

kexodusc
09-01-2004, 03:05 PM
Man, oh man, I learned the law of diminishing when my best friend started buying new Krell gear year after year. The guy makes about 3 times as much as me and drives a 91' Jeep. Then blows all his money on the bestest gear he can find.
I brought my Wharfedale Emeralds and did a head to head against some $3300 Krell's...sure they were better, but not 4 times better.
But damn it looks cool to have whole bunch of fancy expensive equipment in a sound treated HT room.

RGA
09-01-2004, 03:47 PM
Man, oh man, I learned the law of diminishing when my best friend started buying new Krell gear year after year. The guy makes about 3 times as much as me and drives a 91' Jeep. Then blows all his money on the bestest gear he can find.
I brought my Wharfedale Emeralds and did a head to head against some $3300 Krell's...sure they were better, but not 4 times better.
But damn it looks cool to have whole bunch of fancy expensive equipment in a sound treated HT room.

How does one measure 4 times better? Two speakers can be very much the same but one may have a subtle doifference in the treble and that subtle difference may be one that pleases long term while the other argrevates. Subtle improvements can be every bit if not more so important than huge shifts - all depends where the diffs are.

kexodusc
09-02-2004, 05:57 AM
RGA:
True, then it becomes a question of individual value...personally, I find alot of $400 speakers to be quite competent, and for the most part I could live with their shortcomings. At the $800-$1200 range, I hear reasonable audible improvements, but usually they're quite subtle.
At and above the $2000 range, I have to really concentrate almost go through a checklist, as in "do I like this characterstic of Speaker A vs. Speakers B and C?" Then I assign a value to them, which is 100% biased by me.
I guess for my part, the Krell's were better, but there wasn't much about the Wharfedales that I didn't like, or felt was lacking or dreadfully inadequate. To answer your question very simply, RGA, I will submit that 25% of my Wharfedales cost would have been about $220 back in the day, if I bought $1100 speakers, their imaging, soundstage, frequency response variance across the spectrum, bass response, finish, etc, would not have been 25% better in every single category. Apparent sounstage wouldn't be THAT much wider and deeper, I wouldn't get 20 Hz more bottom end or whatever, the response wouldn't be +/- 1 dB better at that price point.

Similarly, $3300 speakers don't produce values for these characteristics 400% better.
So I can safely say that they are not 4 times better.

However, given a person's personal wealth, and desire for audio perfection, they may decide that the last "5%" (arbitrary) is worth an extra $100, $1000, or $10,000 to them.
Nobody can say which is the right way or better.

This diminished returns factor is what's moved me over to building a few of my own speakers. I'm acheiving what I hear as better sound in characteristics I most look for in a speaker so far at anywhere from 1/2 to 1/4 of the price (depending on which of the few models I've bought). And what I'm finding is, the more expensive the brand name speaker, the smaller the fraction of cost to make something similar.
Once I'm done with the ar.com DIY's for my HT, I'd like to build a pair of transmission lines to out do my Vifa towers.
But I'm in the process of moving back to Canada (N.B.), so that'll be awhile.