Are the old fashion CRT-RPTVs outdated already?

[Smokey]

Comparing flat panel displays with "old fashion" CRT RPTVs, one would come away feeling that picture on CRT RPTVs is fuzzier and don't have the feeling of looking-thru-window type of displays.

Bestbuy have a video feed to all TVs (I think on channel 9), so every TV were playing the same thing (via TV's coax input). So looking over couple of flat displays and comparing the picture quality with variety of CRT RPTV in the showroom, the first thing that is definitely noticeable is fuzziness of CRT RPTVs. And if move one feet one way or the other from the center viewing, picture quality start to degrade.

Although it is fair to say that flat panel displays are not without problems (such as pixelazation and artifacts), but it seem flat panel displays at least have greater capability to display excellent "smooth" quality picture. CRT RPTV might not have that capability...at least not at the lower end models.

And that is the story of my trip to Bestbuy yesterday :)

[kpzbee]

Well, I just bought a CRT RPTV & I did a lot of looking around & comparing. What I discovered is the DLP & LCD RPTVs have a grainy or pixeled look to me. I was looking at a Hitachi LCD RPTV & by lowering the contrast & brightness, it helped that problem out. When comparing this set to a 3 gun CRT, it was superior. That was until I found a 5 gun, CRT Hitachi. IMO, it blew the LCD set away in picture quality. There is no grainy or fuzzy picture with the 5 gun set. The other thing that turned me off on a DLP or LCD is the $200+ projecter bulb that will need replaced every 2-3 years. Taking woodman's advise & other people I talked with, you still can't beat a CRT RPTV. I bought a 5 gun Hitachi CRT RPTV & absolutly love it. I have another thread about what I found while shopping these sets.

My advise is shop around & ask A LOT of questions! BB don't carry Hitachi so be sure to check out other places around your area. I bought mine at a local place (Rex TV) for an awesome price. They're trying to clear out older models right now so shopping is great! Good luck!

[woodman]

Comparing flat panel displays with "old fashion" CRT RPTVs, one would come away feeling that picture on CRT RPTVs is fuzzier and don't have the feeling of looking-thru-window type of displays.

Bestbuy have a video feed to all TVs (I think on channel 9), so every TV were playing the same thing (via TV's coax input). So looking over couple of flat displays and comparing the picture quality with variety of CRT RPTV in the showroom, the first thing that is definitely noticeable is fuzziness of CRT RPTVs. And if move one feet one way or the other from the center viewing, picture quality start to degrade.

Although it is fair to say that flat panel displays are not without problems (such as pixelazation and artifacts), but it seem flat panel displays at least have greater capability to display excellent "smooth" quality picture. CRT RPTV might not have that capability...at least not at the lower end models.

And that is the story of my trip to Bestbuy yesterday :)

You've been misled Smoker by the realities in today's TV marketplace - which are that CRT-based RPTVs and flat-panel displays are totally and completely different species. Since the latter are fixed-pixel displays, they require very, very, very little in the way of "setup" at the factory. CRT-based RPTVs on the other hand, require a great deal of "setup" in order for them to perform at any where near their potential. Due to the economics that prevail in the TV mfg. industry today, a horrendously small increment of time is devoted to this at the factory. Plus, these type of sets are routinely set to "torch mode" before they're boxed up for shipment to a dealer. Most dealers don't spend any time in adjusting sets they put on the floor, and since such "torch mode" does not allow for even good, let alone optimum focus, it's no wonder that you see sets in showrooms that look "fuzzy" to you.

Hear me now, and believe me later ... CRT-based RPTVs are not only capable (when they're properly setup and adjusted) of performance every bit as good as the flat panel displays, they're capable of better!

[woodman]

Well, I just bought a CRT RPTV & I did a lot of looking around & comparing. What I discovered is the DLP & LCD RPTVs have a grainy or pixeled look to me. I was looking at a Hitachi LCD RPTV & by lowering the contrast & brightness, it helped that problem out. When comparing this set to a 3 gun CRT, it was superior. That was until I found a 5 gun, CRT Hitachi. IMO, it blew the LCD set away in picture quality. There is no grainy or fuzzy picture with the 5 gun set. The other thing that turned me off on a DLP or LCD is the $200+ projecter bulb that will need replaced every 2-3 years. Taking woodman's advise & other people I talked with, you still can't beat a CRT RPTV. I bought a 5 gun Hitachi CRT RPTV & absolutly love it.

Sorry to pee on your parade kp, but you've been misled by some illiterate salesperson somewhere along the line. There is no such thing as a "5 gun" (CRT) set of any sort from any manufacturer! There is no sound engineering reason why any such thing would even be attempted, or that there would be any benefit to accrue from it. Additionally, it would create some real logistical nightmares in trying to converge 5 separate images into one. It just makes no sense whatsoever to anyone that knows anything at all about TV set design and manufacturing.

There is such a thing as a 5 element lens system which is probably what the "salesman" should have been telling you, rather than snowing you with some BS. He quite obviously knows not whereof he speaks ... much like George W. Bush.

[kpzbee]

Sorry to pee on your parade kp, but you've been misled by some illiterate salesperson somewhere along the line. There is no such thing as a "5 gun" (CRT) set of any sort from any manufacturer! There is no sound engineering reason why any such thing would even be attempted, or that there would be any benefit to accrue from it. Additionally, it would create some real logistical nightmares in trying to converge 5 separate images into one. It just makes no sense whatsoever to anyone that knows anything at all about TV set design and manufacturing.

There is such a thing as a 5 element lens system which is probably what the "salesman" should have been telling you, rather than snowing you with some BS. He quite obviously knows not whereof he speaks ... much like George W. Bush.

Apparenty I misunderstood both the salesman & Hitachi's website. Somewhere along the way, I thought the 5 element lens, were guns. Either way, there is an apparent difference in the two, to see them side by side. I knew I couldn't trust him anyway when he said an RPTV LCD had guns & no projector bulb - and he's the assistant manager! LOLOL I put as much faith in him as I do GWB. :D Thanks for straighting me out.

[Smokey]

Thanks for response guys.

I hear you both on CRT RPTV not being calibrated correctly in the showroom and probably operating on the torch mode. Flat panels were probably on the torch mode also.

But for a typical customer that walked by these type of displays, apparent better picture quality of flat panel displays is immediate. I think (this is just my own theory :D) that when picture is projected on the screen (this apply to LCD- or DLP-RPTV and front projectors also), there is something that get lost in between...being sharpness, convergence, color density or combination of three.

One example would like comparing direct tube TVs with RPTVs. The picture on the tube TV is much more solid, colorful and "alive". One would get the same feeling when comparing "thin" Flat displays with RPTVs that uses projection technology :)

As it was said before, the comparison were with lower end RPTVs that Bestbuy carries. With higher end RPTVs that utilizes 9 inch CRT guns, it might be a different story :)

[woodman]

Thanks for response guys.

I hear you both on CRT RPTV not being calibrated correctly in the showroom and probably operating on the torch mode. Flat panels were probably on the torch mode also.

"Fixed pixel" displays can be in "torch mode" and their pic quality won't suffer like a CRT-based RPTV will - because they're vastly different types of technology, with different idiosyncrasies. CRTs when driven too hard tend to "bloom" (the electron beam actually gets thicker and heavier and resists the attempts to keep it "focused"). Fixed pixel displays don't do that.


But for a typical customer that walked by these type of displays, apparent better picture quality of flat panel displays is immediate. I think (this is just my own theory :D) that when picture is projected on the screen (this apply to LCD- or DLP-RPTV and front projectors also), there is something that get lost in between...being sharpness, convergence, color density or combination of three.

Your "theory" is without merit. It's only a subjective impression that you have conjured up - for whatever reason I don't know. But it is all wet, Smoker.


One example would like comparing direct tube TVs with RPTVs. The picture on the tube TV is much more solid, colorful and "alive".

No, it isn't ... it just looks "sharper" and "better" because the image is smaller, and less likely to let any minor imperfections in the image be visible, that's all. Again, just an unsubstantiated, subjective perception.


As it was said before, the comparison were with lower end RPTVs that Bestbuy carries. With higher end RPTVs that utilizes 9 inch CRT guns, it might be a different story :)

No again. The size of the CRTs used has very little actual bearing on the pic quality. It's a common urban myth that 9" tubes are capable of vastly better performance than their 7" cousins. Also, a little known fact is that the 9" tubes are much higher in price (around double the price of a 7").

[Grandpaw]

one thing. When I was looking around to find my TV a year ago I went in to the local CC store and noticed the higher priced TV's had a much better picture and all were playing the same channel. While playing with buttons like most of us do I reached up and accidentally cut off the signal to the TV sets. To my amazement only the higher end TVs went blank. Come to find out they were fed by a dish and the others were fed the same channel by cable. It really made a difference. You might have checked this out when you were looking but in my case I found out by accident. Six or seven TVs fed by a dish compared to 40 or 50 fed by cable. Yes there was a big difference in the picture. The difference seems to be much less when they were not only on the same channel but also from the same source.

[Smokey]

No again. The size of the CRTs used has very little actual bearing on the pic quality. It's a common urban myth that 9" tubes are capable of vastly better performance than their 7" cousins.

I don't know about that Woody. I am reading that only 9 inch CRT gun are capable of displaying true 1080i picture (1920 x 1080 pixels). 7 inch CRT are not. But as you said, the price have to be taken into consideration also.


Six or seven TVs fed by a dish compared to 40 or 50 fed by cable. Yes there was a big difference in the picture. The difference seems to be much less when they were not only on the same channel but also from the same source.

I actually did not look behind RPTVs to see what type of feed they had, but they were playing the same thing as other TVs which was fed with coax input. The channel was playing movie clips with Bestbuy commercial breaks. So it was probably fed thru a satellite dish.

[toenail]

Perhaps you guys could shed some light on something for me. Any time I visit CC or Best Buy it seems that ALL of the sets they are touting as HD, whether plasma or LCD, have a grainy and pixelized picture. The colors are brilliant, but the resolution is crap, especially when there is a lot of motion on the screen. By comparison, the considerably less expensive traditional tube (CRT?) sets appear to have a much sharper focus, no pixelization and while the color is less brilliant, seems more accurate.

What gives?

[smokehouse]

I have to agree with Woodman on this one. Currently CRTs are still the best video display on the market, save only the best 3 wheel DLP units of course (and most of them are WELL over $10,000 some near $70,000). Ask any person in the know what the best display and you will get the same answer again and again, CRT. Depending on where you live contact a local ISF (Imaging Science Foundation) tech and have a talk with him on display technologies and pre/post calibration results. Every rear projection CRT set needs to be calibrated. Things like geometry, grey scale and red/blue push can not be fixed by eye and cheap calibration DVD alone. There's a reason why calibration equipment for display sets runs somewhere around $12,000. Trust me, the difference between my Hitachi at pre and post ISF calibration is amazing.

On to the next point, the main problem that no one has touched upon is the fact that you people are going to Circuit City. Stop doing that!!! Do you go to Walmart for a good set of golf clubs? Do you go to Autozone for good car stereo? The truth is that CC does one thing well, steer customers to the "oooh and aaah" equipment. They have their best signals running to their plasma and LCD flat panels and it's that way for a reason. Go to a truly high end store or even a mid-fi store and see what they have. Circuit City is not and will never be a litmus for making solid A/V decisions.

One other thing I forgot to mention. Fixed pixel displays really suffer from motion break up. That's the graininess you mentioned before. They will look great on still images but fast paced things will really cause problems.

[kpzbee]

I see that you seen the same thing I did toenail. That's why I went with a CRT RPTV. The picture is much sharper than an LCD or DLP that I was looking at. The key is what woodman & smokehouse said - "Fixed pixel displays really suffer from motion break up. That's the graininess you mentioned before. They will look great on still images but fast paced things will really cause problems." As a fan of action/adventure movies, the DLP & LCD sets wouldn't cut it.

[toenail]

LOL about Circus City, you're so right. They are designed to cater to the herd. I generally don't do any serious shopping there, but was in recently to see if they had any out-of-box deals on bookshelfs speakers. I was thinking a $300-$400 set of Polks might be ok but was wrong. BTW I used to manage the Home Theater dept at a Best Buy years ago and am very familiar the focus in those stores, it's all about accessories and service plans, where the biggest margins are. Those two chains usally do no more than get me pointed back in the right direction after being disappointed by what they have to offer. For that purpose they are great.

Back on topic, I can't see wanting to update my television to HD until I have no choice. I have a vintage 35" Mitsubishi ('87) that weighs about 200 lbs and for the most part I'm happy with the detail and picture quality. There's a Phillips 20" flat screen (gift) in the bedroom that is sharp sharp sharp. Blows away all of the HD stuff I've seen at the Big Box retailers. I'll have to hit one of the high end store and see what the difference is because I'm certainly not sold by what I've seen so far.