Is Martin Logan suitable for me?

[Billyjo]

i am still looking for a pair of loudspeakers to replace my Kef Reference 201. My choices so far are B&W 801 and Dynaudio C2. I was always hesitated to try electrostatic speakers, mainly because i've never had one before.

So, before i even bother to explore deeper into them and ask for an audition, please would anyone tell me the pros and cons about ESL? Is it true about the unreliability, dust collecting and membrane needs replacing etc.... ? Is it suitable for relatively small room?

I had a look at the website, one page explaining how the concept works. it mentioned about the signal passing through a transformer into a high voltage signal, will this compromise sound quality? Unlike Quad, they are hybrid speakers, do you really get the best from both worlds as they claimed?

[Billyjo]

i've been forgotten.....

[RGA]

i've been forgotten.....

Ok let's explore what you're after in the way of sound. I like the N801 and I like the Martin Logan speakers as well. We can like lots of different sounding speakers but sooner or later we're in your shoes and have to buy...and no speaker is perfect.

The ML's require a lot of power to do them justice and they don't necessarily integrate with their bass drivers properly...their upper models do but then their upper models cost a lot and require a HUGE listening room...so does the N801 though(at least on the latter point).

The issue I have with stats and panels is focussed on their dynamic ability - not to be confused with bass out put. Dynamics are not just about bass dynamics and smaller stats and panels have a great deal of difficulty pushing air to be realistic...though they produce a holographic presentation that can be mesmerizing(which is why I like them.

But take for instance headphones. The Stax cans are electrostats which are very fast and transparent and all that jazz...but yet I took the HD 600s a open air dynamic can largely because they provide 95% of what the Stax provide but also have the dymaics to create a more robust sound for both bass and for punch(especially helpful for rock). Now if all you listened to was rock you might want to give up even more of the transparent sound for even more dynamic kick and move to the Grado RS1.

Speakers are not too much different. Martin Logan, unlike Quad or planars has built in a subwoofer trouble with this is that the cone doesn't keep up with the stat panel quite as smoothly as one would hope for...but indeed do listen to them because they keep trying to improve every year. Have not heard their latest outings.

I will suggest Audio Note to you because the AN E/SEC to me is one of the most natural mystifying speakers for getting acoustic instruments bang on. One reason I bought their lower models. The AN E/D is their lower model and beat out many more expensive audiophile classics using horns, ribbons etc. I did not hear the AN E D but if it is 80% the speaker that the AN E Sec is, then it's a better sounding musical experience than the N801 is at a fraction of the price. And no I'm not kidding. It's not nearly as pretty looking...but they're the real deal.

The dealer here is carrying them over the top end B&Ws and has or is in the process of dumping the ML line in favour of the Audio Notes. Best of all no big power demands...one of the easiest speakers on the planet to drive perhaps...

The N801 and the upper models of ML are truly terrific...but I igured I throw in another to your mix. The AN E is upgradeable and ranges in price from ~$2500.00US to $35,000.00US. http://www.audionote.co.uk/

[Billyjo]

Thank you RGA for your advice, i heard that the Audionote speakers as well and they were superb. But then the high sensitivity and the high output means i have to replace my amps as well. for some reason my CDP and pre/amp has really high output and i get music then the volume is at 1 (goes up to 85). I'll have to wait till i get a pair of 300B monoblocs.....

so........ ESLs aren't for small rooms?

[E-Stat]

Billyjo, here's another perspective. As you might gather, I very much prefer the electrostatic type of loudspeaker. I wouldn't worry about them for the reasons you stated. My Acoustats, for example, have been utterly reliable for twenty years requiring only a periodic cleaning of the grill socks and heat treatment of the diaphragms (a thirty minute procedure with a hair dryer)

First, the bad news. They are relatively inefficient. It takes some power to achieve high levels. Partially making up for that difference is that they drop output level in a linear fashion with distance. Conventional speakers, on the other hand, lose output with the square of the distance. They are not party speakers as most definitely have a sweet spot. The hybrids like some MLs and Innersounds do have mixed results with bass continuity with the woofers (an issue I don't face). Room placement is critical and typically requires more space, including behind them.

The good news is that they possess an incredible clarity and coherence not easily matched by a collection of cones, IMHO. Full range ES designs are essentially giant condenser microphones. Part of the answer to your question may revolve around the type of music to prefer. They are at their best reproducing acoustical instruments like piano and guitar and do wonderfully with voice. Planars of all sorts tend to do a better job of reproducing the midbass. I find them easy to forget that I am listening to speakers at all.

You might also consider Magneplanars. While they share some of the advantages (and placement challanges, for that matter), they also are capable of very natural reproduction. The 20.1s are among the very best speakers I have ever heard. One of these days, I hope to get a pair of Soundlabs to replace my 2+2s.

rw

[RGA]

Thank you RGA for your advice, i heard that the Audionote speakers as well and they were superb. But then the high sensitivity and the high output means i have to replace my amps as well. for some reason my CDP and pre/amp has really high output and i get music then the volume is at 1 (goes up to 85). I'll have to wait till i get a pair of 300B monoblocs.....

so........ ESLs aren't for small rooms?

I didn't answer the other question...I have not heard of problems with Stats either in the way of reliability...lots of people have stats for decades upon decades without trouble. I remember some people have had problems with the panel arcing and thus the stat is ruined.

Soundhounds had a pair of 20 year old Quads in for repair but they ended up being a write-off. The family dog peed on the panel and it was totally destroyed. Lucky the dog wasn't I guess - then again the owner might have booted him down the hall - or out the window.

The Stats were insured and the owner got a brand new replacement Quad...Sweet deal. I need that kind of insurance...maybe Canada is good for this :D

Definitely try the MLs but I also understand people like innersound.

If your amphas super high gain then high efficient speakers can be a bit overbearing because they're loud all the time. I put my old Arcam all the way down to minimum volume and my high sensitive Wharfedales were still noticeably making music. The AN E is even more sensitive.

If you already have the amps then I would be going the Stat or panel route myself. When you get up to the big boys you're bound to get a great speaker...it's just a matter of system and room matching and your choice in trade-offs. Besides, even I have to admit that a ML stat looks really good and the sound matches. Form and function...but you need a big time amp.

[Woochifer]

Placement, power consumption, and bass integration are the big ifs with panel speakers. It's been a while since I've done any extensive listening with MLs, but the hybrid models I've heard in the past were lacking in their bass integration. For acoustic music, they were very impressive. Less so with amplified instruments and percussion. With panel speakers, the placement and wall configuration are vital considerations, and need a lot more room than typical dynamic driver speakers.

More recently, I demoed a pair of Innersounds with one of their product designers, and it remedied a lot of the bass integration issues that I'd noted with previous ML models. As with other panel speakers, the Innersounds need a lot of spacing all around to really let loose. I believe that the Innersounds are also a bit more efficient than the MLs, so they might be less taxing on the amps. If you can find them, you should try them and compare with the MLs, since the two speakers have somewhat different sound signatures (the Innersounds are more pronounced in the highs and have a smaller "sweet spot" than I remember with previous MLs).

Overall, the MLs are definitely worth considering, especially if you're already in the price class of the B&W 801. And if you are looking to eventually expand into a home theatre configuration, ML is one of the few stat speaker manufacturers that has a full lineup of ancillary home theatre speakers that match with their mains (people I know who've tried them out say that the all-important center speaker integration with the MLs is very good). So long as you've got a good amp and a decent sized room, there's no reason not to consider stat speakers. If you're missing either or both, then you might be better off sticking with dynamic driver speakers.

[Billyjo]

As i have a small living room, it's really more of a living room then a hifi room. But i'm still very interested in ESLs, i think i'll find a dealer and have a listen. Thanks so much for the advice. ^_^

[Geoffcin]

As i have a small living room, it's really more of a living room then a hifi room. But i'm still very interested in ESLs, i think i'll find a dealer and have a listen. Thanks so much for the advice. ^_^

Magnepan sells the MMG factory direct, and they give a money back guarantee. If you order a pair through Audioreview.com, I even think you get a discount from the absurdly low $550 that they are asking for this speaker. The MMG while tall, doesn't not take up a lot of real estate, and is efficient enough to be driven by almost any decent amp out there.
If you try them and you like them, you know that you will be a planar guy forever. If not, you still get to send them back. How can you loose?

[topspeed]

uh Geoff, I think it's time you wrung out the 'Stang for a bit and got some fresh air with a hint of burning rubber back into your sytem.

This thread is 2 years old, friend.

[Geoffcin]

uh Geoff, I think it's time you wrung out the 'Stang for a bit and got some fresh air with a hint of burning rubber back into your sytem.

This thread is 2 years old, friend.

I gotta stop with the Tequila.... (what day is is anyway?)

[thepogue]

I read the whole thang too....lol :o :D


dumbarse....lol

Pogue

[GMichael]

This is good information that I would have never gotten to see if you hadn't "woke the dead."