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kexodusc
08-12-2004, 09:22 AM
I've had several fellow AR.com members e-mail in the past week about the cabinet dimensions for the EFE DIY speaker design found here.

Madisound apparently suggests the user can increase the volume of the speaker to approximately 20 L to improve the bass response. Being a newbie to speaker building, I was a little hesitant to endorse a "mod" to the DIY design, so I decided to e-mail Ed himself to see what he had to say...

Ed's response was:

"Yes, it is true that if you increase the cabinet volume the bass will
increase. But as the bass increases you also give up a little of the
midrange tightness and purity that the DIY has become famous for. There is a
give and take for everything you change in speaker designing!

Most (not all) guys use the DIY in a surround system, usually adding a
subwoofer, therefore there is no need to have the DIY's produce more bass,
the sub takes care of the lower frequencies leaving the DIY to produce a
very clean midrange. Even without a sub, if the proper amount of insulation
is installed as per the instructions, the bass is very good for a small
bookshelf speaker. I prefer the smaller cabinet, thus the reason why I chose
it over a larger one when first designed.

Every designer has a certain goal in mind when designing a speaker, some
want as much bass as possible. I wanted a small speaker that produced a
pure, natural, tight and clean midrange, that is where 75% of the music is
produced. Good speaker balancing is the difference between a so so speaker
and a great speaker, I think the DIY has proven to be the latter because of
the reasons mentioned."

This is probably a no brainer for experienced builders...just thought I'd share.

This led me to thinking, how would it be to get ar.com to put together an FAQ for this speaker design? Any chance at all this could happen? It might save aspiring speaker builders and Ed himself a bit of time...not to mention being a valuable resource. Maybe there could be a wiki or a link or something?
Just a humble suggestion...please don't flame me..

Swerd
08-12-2004, 12:09 PM
This led me to thinking, how would it be to get ar.com to put together an FAQ for this speaker design?
It sounds to me like you're just the guy to put this FAQ together :D. Keep notes of your initial ideas, mistakes, and observations as you build them. You could enter it as a How-To Article.

On the other hand, do we really need a FAQ list? Ed Frias has always taken the time to answer all our questions. He is both helpful and gracious, and it is fun to hear back from him. From my own limited experience, I would also say that you should do exactly as Ed says. As his response to your 20 liter question indicates, he has already thought of that modification and ruled it out for good reasons.

My total experience with these speakers is that I built one pair of standard Ed Frias design AR.coms myself. They are in the L6 cabinets made by Speaker City, have the updated crossover that lack the BBC dip, and I now have added 2 ohms extra resistance to the tweeter.

I also "consulted" for a 19-year old son and one of his friends as they built their AR.coms. I use quotes around the word consult because they didn't listen to me. It seems they were expert Parts Express catalog readers and knew they could tweak and improve them. They managed to reprove the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". In an effort to get more bass, one made bigger cabinets (I don't know the volume), and the other substituted Peerless 8" drivers for the 6" ones that Ed calls for and made a bigger cabinet. They don't sound bad, but they lost that pure, natural, tight & clean midrange that Ed described above.

Even though I think that Ed Frias's design is difficult to modify for the better, a FAQ list might encourage more people to try building these speakers for themselves. And that can't be bad.

Keep us up to date about your progress with your DIYs. I'm curious to know what you think of Wayne J's PeeCreeks.

poneal
08-13-2004, 05:53 AM
It was a toss up for me between the PeeCreek and the AR.Com. I chose the AR.Com because of Ed's design and ease of access to him. I mean this guy has to get over 50 emails a day about this design and he answers them all. I'm also partial to the peerless sound and wanted to keep an all peeless design. The U-Pee (MorePee?) uses the much more expensive usher tweeter and that increases the toal cost of a 5 speaker system dramatically.

One thing I have learned. 45 degree edges are a bear to put together and even harder to get squared. Unless your a learned carpenter/woodworker do not use them unless you get someone to cut them for you that knows what they're doing. I am able to salvage all but the back of mine due to them not squaring up properly. So the lesson learned is for simplicity, use the butt joint.

Ed has also recommended that you flush mount the AR.Com so don't cheap out and baffle mount them. If you don't have a router rent one. Plus the flushing makes the speaker look professional.

Another lesson learned. Use scape wood/mdf to do the inital routing/flushing to make sure the measurements are correct before you route the real piece.

By the way, my wife loves the size of these boxes. It definitely has WAF (wife acceptance factor). They are kinda sexy looking if you ask me. Just the right size.

Well, there's my two cents....

kexodusc
08-13-2004, 07:25 AM
Poneal: Do you recall the cuts and measurements you made to make the cabinets? Ed sent me the cabinet exterior dimensions, but I wasn't sure which size to make each side.

The way I did it was to surround the cabinet back with the top, bottom and sides and then have the front overlap those same pieces. I'm not sure if this is the "best" way, or if it even matter, but a book I have suggested it for another design...that way if you don't veneer the joint lines aren't terribly visible. Seemed to make sense.

Just curious if there's a better method, and if so, what makes it better? I did use the butt joint, though I was going to try a rabbet...someone talked me out of that and just suggested to use screws every 4 or 5 inches or so.

I can see the veneering being a bit troublesome...we'll see though. Could be awhile before I have a weekend at home again...

EFE Speakers
08-13-2004, 10:03 AM
Hello guys,
Below are the specifications for the DIY cabinets including the inside dimensions as per original Speaker City cabinets. Thanks!

Ed Frias

DIY Cabinet specs

Outside dimensions are
13" high x 8 3/4" wide x 9 1/4" deep

Inside dimensions are
11 ½” high x 7 3/8” wide x 7 ¾ deep

Port size is 2" Dia. (ID) x 6" deep from rear surface.
Rear Port hole is centered (widthwise) and 3" from top to center of port.

Speaker input terminal hole is 1 15/16" Dia. It is countersunk 3/16" deep x 3" Dia. This can be changed if you desire another type or size speaker terminal. Rear Speaker terminal hole is centered (widthwise) and 3" from bottom to center of hole.

Front Tweeter hole is 3 5/16" in diameter. Front tweeter hole is also centered widthwise and also 3" from top of cabinet to center of hole. If you opt to countersink the tweeter, cut 1/8" deep x 4 1/8" Dia.

Front woofer hole is 5 5/8" Dia. If you opt to countersink, use 3/16" deep x 6 15/16" Dia.
Front woofer is centered 4 1/4" from bottom of cabinet.
Success to all!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers
efespeakers@commspeed.net

EFE Speakers
08-13-2004, 10:07 AM
Don't know why the garbage was included with the inside dimensions, but I'll try again!


Inside dimensions:

11 1/2 high x 7 3/8 wide x 7 3/4 deep

poneal
08-13-2004, 12:23 PM
This guy is everywhere... :-) Thanks, Ed.

poneal
08-13-2004, 12:36 PM
Kexodus, I didn't use any screws or nails but just titebond glue. You must countersink your screws and then get some of that wood putty to cover the holes. Then you must sand it smooth. If its not smooth, then when you veneer it will show the imperfections, especially if using a darker color. The most important thing I have found is to sand, then sand, and then sand some more until its perfect. Don't put anything on it unitl you have sanded out all the imperfections. Then you can seal and paint, stain or whatever. Trust me on this one. Put the extra effort up front on the sanding because later on the down the line the imperfections don't go away but get worse. I know from experience on this one. LOL. I've never veneered but I think the peel and stick vinyl veneer would be a lot easier to do than real wood veneer. PE has about 4 colors to choose from. You can probably get it locally at home depot or paint store also. Probably a lot cheaper too. PE has raised there prices again so my new vendor is madisound. Have a good one. Paul.

kexodusc
08-13-2004, 01:02 PM
Oh, I've done a fair bit of veneering in my day, and I have a decent woodworker helping me out too.
Real wood is the way to go...I just did my new audio cabinet in a nice birch veneer...I got a darn close match to my Paradigm's finish too...
You are right about sanding...the most important bit...I've learned that the hard way too. MDF is really easy to work with though.
My cabinets are already screwed together, howerver, but titebond might be an option for the next 2 pairs.
I'm tempted to take the router to round off some of the edges and spiff up the next batch of cabinets, we'll see how these turn out first.

I've worked with the PE veneer already on my parents MK III 12" sub. It is surprisingly nice, better than the crappy pictures on the website. Folks in the PE forums are right though, it's not the most durable, but subs don't usually get lots of wear and tear on them, so it should be good...

poneal
08-13-2004, 01:13 PM
Ya, I had an old mahogony table that I got at an estate sale a month or so ago. All the finish worn off, legs falling off, rusted screws, water stains, etc. It was 3" thick with large heavy matching legs made in the philippines. I brought that puppy back to life. I rounded the sharp edges and what a difference it made. Just made the living room table more appealing. My wife wanted to stain but I put the foot down and said no staining whatsoever. I clear coated it using that polycrylic and it came out beautiful. She was really impressed. The table looks brand new. I bought it for $30.00. In a store I'm sure it would cost upwards of $500.00. I would round if I were you. MDF rounds really well and I think it would make it more appealing. Just my two cents. I'm just glad I only have to work for 18 more minutes and then its home to work on the project some more. Let's keep in touch and let each other know how our project is going. Later, Paul.

Drop Drive
08-25-2004, 12:21 PM
(Please bear with me as I know little about speakers and even less about woodworking.)


Outside dimensions are 13" high x 8 3/4" wide x 9 1/4" deep
Inside dimensions are 11 1/2 high x 7 3/8 wide x 7 3/4 deep
I gather that these plans call for 3/4" thick material such as MDF for all six sides? If so, isn't one of the width measurements off by 1/8"? Which one is correct? (This is nitpicky, but if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it exactly right.)



Port size is 2" Dia. (ID) x 6" deep from rear surface.
Rear Port hole is centered (widthwise) and 3" from top to center of port.
I don't understand this bit. What is a port? What is "(ID)"? How can something be 6" deep from the (inner? outer?) rear surface--won't it be right in the inner cavity? And is a "rear port hole" simply---from a woodworking perspective, anyway---a hole in the rear panel?



Speaker input terminal hole is 1 15/16" Dia. It is countersunk 3/16" deep x 3" Dia.
A Google search tells me that countersinking is like making a "starter hole" for screws, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Should I just think of it as a cylindrical hole that doesn't go all the way through? I suppose then that the countersink "hole" should be on the outside?

Seems like one can choose to countersink the tweeter and woofer holes. Will these again be from the outside? Are there any advantages or disadvantages apart from aesthetic ones?

poneal, do you find Titebond glue alone strong enough, or did you use L-shaped brackets on the inside too?

And thanks to Jim Clark for pointing the AR.com DIYs out to me.

Peter

poneal
08-26-2004, 11:49 AM
(Please bear with me as I know little about speakers and even less about woodworking.)


I gather that these plans call for 3/4" thick material such as MDF for all six sides? If so, isn't one of the width measurements off by 1/8"? Which one is correct? (This is nitpicky, but if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it exactly right.)



I don't understand this bit. What is a port? What is "(ID)"? How can something be 6" deep from the (inner? outer?) rear surface--won't it be right in the inner cavity? And is a "rear port hole" simply---from a woodworking perspective, anyway---a hole in the rear panel?



A Google search tells me that countersinking is like making a "starter hole" for screws, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Should I just think of it as a cylindrical hole that doesn't go all the way through? I suppose then that the countersink "hole" should be on the outside?

Seems like one can choose to countersink the tweeter and woofer holes. Will these again be from the outside? Are there any advantages or disadvantages apart from aesthetic ones?

poneal, do you find Titebond glue alone strong enough, or did you use L-shaped brackets on the inside too?

And thanks to Jim Clark for pointing the AR.com DIYs out to me.

Peter


1) Ya, looks like the width is off. Instead of 7 3/8 I think it should be 7 1/4" and yes its 3/4" MDF
2) ID=Inside Diameter, So it's 6" long and 2" ID heres a link to one:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-387
u just discard the extension and you have a 6" long port.
3) Countersunk means flush mounted. So you have a circular hole the diameter of the driver and then you make this hole however deep the lip is on the driver so that when you mount the driver it will be flush with the front baffle/mdf panel. You also need to make a smaller hole for the rear driver basket/magnet to fit through. The best way to do this is to use a router with a 1/4" straight bit and circle jig attached to the router so you get exact circles the diameter you need. Flush mouting is important because it affects how the speaker will sound. Without going into detail (which I wouldn't know anyway) the baffle step correction that ed has built into the xover would be off.
4) The titebond II glue has worked well for me. I have routed and sanded the glued boxes and they have not come apart. I did not use any screws or nails, just glue. I'm still priming/sanding/finishing the boxes. I will not be done for about 2-3 more weeks.

They sell circle jigs at Parts Express and other places. Hope this helps you out. Paul.

kexodusc
08-26-2004, 12:48 PM
Just to add to Paul's excellent comments...There'd be some nasty diffraction at some frequencies really distorting the smooth frequency response, usually if you don't countersink it's recommended you use diffraction rings...lots of brand name speakers use these (Paradigm, PSB, Polk, B&W, Wharfedale, etc) and I'm starting to realize this is quite often a cost saving shortcut.

poneal
08-27-2004, 06:03 AM
The previous night I had glued the last back baffle onto the last box. Got off work, started taking off the wood clamps and got all but one off when the weight of the last one caused it to fall off the workbench. Ya, duh on me. I was thinking, man another box, another week's setback. Well, it stayed together just fine. It did have a 1/4" dent on one side about 1/2" in diameter that I was able to fill with wood putty.

So why am I telling you this. One of the previous questions asked if I just used glue and I stated yes that's all. Well this box dropped 5' and stayed together with no problems using just glue. To me this indicates that a good glue does work without using nails/screws. Just my two cents of early morning rattling. Have a good one. Paul.

kexodusc
08-27-2004, 06:10 AM
OH, man...that's sucks...Nothing bondo can't take care of though.
The race is on Paul, in the next 2 weeks I'll be in a new house in Canada somewhere...what are the odds I can get the speakers veneered, stained, and assembled before the movers come next Tuesday? (slim to none...gonna have to pack them)
Wood glue is pretty tough. I built a cheapo audio rack out of 3/4 MDF a few years that I climb on quite frequently to open a window...I tend to cause it to shift from side to side and front to back, but it doesn't crack or break or anything. If it can support my 175lbs, it'll hold a speaker together.

poneal
08-27-2004, 07:09 AM
but it's gonna be tough to finish because I'm sure your working and packing, etc. Wow, then you gotta set up the new household but it does give you an opportunity to redo the HT/living room layout. Of course then you gotta do the SPL calibration thing and all that good stuff. I wish you luck but I know that your gonna be one tired camper after moving.

I'm cutting and glueing the grills this Sunday (almost forgot about them bad boys). Then I need to drill the guide holes for them before I continue priming, sanding, painting, etc. Ed didn't leave us a lot of room on the woofer edges for grills (especiall since I used a 3/8" roundover on all edges. That leaves about 5/8" of an inch so I'm planning on making them 1/2" wide and 1/4" thick using those small grill guides from PE that just happend to be 1/4" long. Using red oak so hopefully they will be strong enough because they are pretty thin. Well, I better quit messing around here and get back to work. Talk to ya later. Have a good one, Paul.

kexodusc
08-27-2004, 07:21 AM
Errr....grills...yeah, forgot about those too....I talked to my cousin and sent him the design...he's suggesting I use the magnets that you can buy at most DIY websites, sink them into the MDF and cover them with the veneer...I might try that.
My fiancee's looking at houses as I type, her and her parents have a few narrowed down...I've left instructions for 2 rooms so I can reproduce my studio ( I play some instruments) and HT...since we don't have kids yet this shouldn't be a problem.

You're right though, I just ran speaker wires a few months back through the walls to hide them...that was a tedious job...now I gotta do it again.

This whole new job thing happened so fast in the last 2 weeks.
I figure I shoudl have these done by the end of September if everything goes smoothly though...October for sure!!! Gonna have to buy a plunge router though, can't take my neighbor with me!!!

poneal
08-27-2004, 12:11 PM
find a new friend with one. I borrowed a co-workers plunge router. I haven't run my wires in-wall yet because it's just to darn hot, but I do intend to do that when it starts to cool down here in south texas. I've got some many projects around the house to do that I can't keep up withem all. Ah well, slowly but surely they get done. Are you self moving or is the new company moving you? Later, Paul.

Drop Drive
08-30-2004, 06:45 PM
Front Tweeter hole is 3 5/16" in diameter.
If you opt to countersink the tweeter, cut 1/8" deep x 4 1/8" Dia.
The magnet diameter of the PEERLESS 812687 1" DOME TWEETER (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=277-410) is 72mm (http://www.d-s-t.com/peerless/data/812687.htm) (scroll down a bit), which is roughly 2 7/8" (http://www.google.com/search?q=72+mm+in+inches), so why is the hole diameter 3 5/16"? Am I missing something? (The countersink diameter of 4 1/8" is the same as the "overall diameter" given on the Parts Express page (first link above).)


Front tweeter hole is also centered widthwise and also 3" from top of cabinet to center of hole.
Front woofer is centered 4 1/4" from bottom of cabinet.
Are these measurements from the exterior or the interior? Is the distance between the centers precisely 13 - 3 - 4 1/4 = 5 3/4"?

Three more questions: (1) Is there any value in making the front panel (the baffle?) out of HDF, or 1" MDF, or even 1" HDF? (2) Is the front panel supposed to be detachable? Or does one work though the speaker holes, in construction and repair? (3) Would not having a grill degrade sound quality?

Many thanks. I'd be happy to write up people's answers should an FAQ ever get started. ---Peter

EFE Speakers
08-30-2004, 07:13 PM
For all concerned,
The measurements given for hole placement is measured from the exterior of the cabinet. As far as actual hole sizes, those were the original hole sizes that came in the L-6 cabinets from Speaker City, not made exactly for the Peerless drivers. Measure the exact size of the Peerless drivers and make the holes in your cabinets just a bit larger, be sure to make notches for the tweeter wire terminals. If the inner dimensions I gave were 1/8 inch off, no big deal, just make sure to keep the original inside volume of the cabinet correct. As stated several times, you can enlarge the cabinet and gain more bass, but if you desire the speakers to produce a very clean tight midrange, build them to the original specified dimensions. Success!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

poneal
08-31-2004, 06:22 AM
For all concerned,
The measurements given for hole placement is measured from the exterior of the cabinet. As far as actual hole sizes, those were the original hole sizes that came in the L-6 cabinets from Speaker City, not made exactly for the Peerless drivers. Measure the exact size of the Peerless drivers and make the holes in your cabinets just a bit larger, be sure to make notches for the tweeter wire terminals. If the inner dimensions I gave were 1/8 inch off, no big deal, just make sure to keep the original inside volume of the cabinet correct. As stated several times, you can enlarge the cabinet and gain more bass, but if you desire the speakers to produce a very clean tight midrange, build them to the original specified dimensions. Success!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

Ed, I'm nearing completion of my boxes and will order the drivers tomorrow. I already have the latest crossovers preassembled from madisound and this is where my question lies. When I order my drivers should I ask for (5) 2 ohm resisitors that attach to the positive terminal of the tweeter? Maybe an assortment? Or none at all? The reason for 5 is because I have built 5 boxes. Thanks, Paul.

EFE Speakers
08-31-2004, 08:58 AM
Yes, 5 ohm resistors are on the board and 2 ohm resistors should be added at the tweeters!

I believe the other posting where you thought the poster used 20 ohm resistors just appeared that way, but he accidently enlarged the O on ohms, so it read like 2Ohms rather than 2ohms. 2 ohm resistors should be the value to start off with, you can go up or down from there! Look forward to hearing how they come out!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

dave_bullet
09-01-2004, 10:39 PM
Yes - sorry about the misleading post on the resistor to pad down the tweeter. I must pay "ohmage" to Ed for clarifying that (sorry - I couldn't resist that).

Anway - the good news is my AR.com DIY kit arrived from Madisound today (great service - 5 days from order to shipping and I live on the other side of the world!)

The question is - I have a project to build a CD bookcase.... or the AR.com DIYs - gee what should I start - easy choice really (CDs can just stay on the floor for a little longer :-)

I'm going to build the AR.com DIYs in a tower with a shelf in the middle to cut the volume the woofer sees to the planned size. (I'm tired of stands). I must admit - I'm impressed with the solidity of the tweeters. With excitement, comes some pride - so I'll be sure to post my pictures of construction along the way (somewhere....)

Cheers,
Dave.

kexodusc
09-02-2004, 04:33 AM
I'm going to build the AR.com DIYs in a tower with a shelf in the middle to cut the volume the woofer sees to the planned size. (I'm tired of stands).

Dave, let me know how that turns out...I've already planned out my floorstander Ar.com's for my next project as soon as I'm finished the bookshelfs....just curious, what height are you using? I can't remember exactly, but I think I picked 26" height in addition to the 13" for an even 39". I read a few posts or comments where Ed's used 24" stands for them.

I've decided on a sliding shelf to allow me to fill the lower cabinet with sand or cat litter for loading.

I'm also thought about modeling a smaller ar.com using the Peerless 850108, 5-1/2" woofer for surrounds, but I might just cut down the cabinet depth and height a bit, and lose some bass response while keeping the 6-1/2" woofer to make them a bit more wall mount-friendly...they'd be cutoff at 80 Hz or so anyway by the processor/receiver. Save me from having to design a new crossover...we'll see...might be best just to build 2 more bookshelfs?

Good luck.

dave_bullet
09-03-2004, 12:50 AM
I'm going for approx 35.5" high. I have a low couch and that height would put the tweeters at my ear level (which is usually recommended for floorstanders). eg. the top part of the cabinet will look exactly like a bookshelf AR.com DIY eg. 3" tweeter centre from top of cabinet, woofer approx 6mm from tweeter etc...

What I find hilarious is most manufacturers will make the lower end towers "shorter" to make their models through the range look bigger and justify the increase in price. If I made speakers......

PS: - don't forget to allow for feet in your tower design - these can be 1"+ if you use spikes

I like the idea of a shelf on an angle. Help break up panel resonances.

I notice with the Madisound kit they give you foam for the walls. Should you still stuff with batting / acousta-stuff? If it helps absorb unwanted midrange from escaping from the port - fine, but if it is just to make the box appear bigger for the woofer (which stuffing does by roughly10%) , I can do that by moving my partition down the cabinet.

Cheers,
David.

kexodusc
09-03-2004, 03:44 AM
PS: - don't forget to allow for feet in your tower design - these can be 1"+ if you use spikes

I like the idea of a shelf on an angle. Help break up panel resonances.

I notice with the Madisound kit they give you foam for the walls. Should you still stuff with batting / acousta-stuff? If it helps absorb unwanted midrange from escaping from the port - fine, but if it is just to make the box appear bigger for the woofer (which stuffing does by roughly10%) , I can do that by moving my partition down the cabinet.


I'm not sure I'm qualified enough to answer you question. It would seem to me that you could get some undesireable effects from standing waves, etc if you increase the interior volume of the "top part" of the cabinet by dropping that partition. I know some people have made larger cabinets for these with poly-fill, acousta-stuff, etc, and reported good results. I think you would want to keep the 13 inch height the same, at the very least, and maybe use bracing every 8" or thereabouts to limit resonance problems. I wouldn't want to go much more than 13" without a brace.

After a few discussions with some other people last night I think I'm going to abandon the sand filling idea and just use 3 or 4 "donut" and "H"-braces in the lower cabinet to cut down on resonance. Might stuff it with pink insulation, poly-fill, or something cheap so there's no "hollow" sound.

poneal
09-03-2004, 05:31 AM
Got all 5 boxes coated with the first coat of black gloss enamel. Dang they look good with just the first coat (I can see my self in them). I have to let them dry for 3 days then sand and put the second coat, wait 3 more days, then sand a clearcoat, then wait 3 more days, then compound, swirl remover, and glazing. Can't wait.....

kexodusc
09-03-2004, 05:36 AM
Great so in 10 days or so you'll have some pics up for us, right?
Paul, what speakers do you own currently that you could give us a head-to-head comparison with when you're done?

Man, I can't wait to get back at this...moving company is coming on the 9th, hopefully by Monday, the 13th I can get back at them...

traut
09-08-2004, 01:52 PM
You're right though, I just ran speaker wires a few months back through the walls to hide them...that was a tedious job...now I gotta do it again.

kexodus,

I just bought my first house a few months ago, and I've been racking my brain about what to do with the speaker wires. The best idea I've come up with is to remove the molding, route out a space for the wires on some new molding, and then replace. How did you go about running the wires through the walls? Did you wind up with dozens of holes that you had to patch? Based on this thread, I know you're very busy moving, but if you could lay down the basics for me when have the time, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks,
RT

traut
09-13-2004, 01:34 PM
Bump for kexodusc

bcass
02-21-2005, 01:43 PM
Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but it looked as good as any. :-)

I am looking for the L-6 speaker cabinets at SoundCity.com and I can't find them. Are they still sold there? Are there any other sources for cabinets of the proper dimensions? I am almost tempted to build my own, since I can work OK with wood/MDF, but if I can get premade cabinets with nice veneer, grill and holes cut for reasonably more than the parts, I'd do it.

Thanks!
Bryan

kexodusc
02-21-2005, 01:47 PM
Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but it looked as good as any. :-)

I am looking for the L-6 speaker cabinets at SoundCity.com and I can't find them. Are they still sold there? Are there any other sources for cabinets of the proper dimensions? I am almost tempted to build my own, since I can work OK with wood/MDF, but if I can get premade cabinets with nice veneer, grill and holes cut for reasonably more than the parts, I'd do it.

Thanks!
Bryan

I think you should try looking at speakercity.com, not soundcity.com.
If that doesn't work Madisound sells pre-fab cabinets as well.

Build your own...way more fun, and cheaper.

bcass
02-21-2005, 03:37 PM
I think you should try looking at speakercity.com, not soundcity.com.
If that doesn't work Madisound sells pre-fab cabinets as well.

Build your own...way more fun, and cheaper.

Sorry, I meant SpeakerCity.com. Are the cabinets at Madisound the same size that Ed recommends?

Building my own... I'm sure I could get them put together, but I'm wondering if they'd look like I made them or not. ;-) I like the looks of the ones in the instructions on this site. But is there a materials list and cutting diagram for DIY cabinets of the same dimensions?

Thank you!
Bryan

EFE Speakers
02-21-2005, 03:56 PM
Bryan,
The Speakercity cabinets are like the ones in the original posting, the new Madisound cabinets are the same volume but come with rounded corners rather than square. They both come with real wood veneer, driver and input terminal holes and finished grills. You'll have to drill all the holes for the screws. E-mail me for the right type and amount of insulation to install. Success!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers
efespeakers@commspeed.net

bcass
02-22-2005, 08:03 AM
Bryan,
The Speakercity cabinets are like the ones in the original posting, the new Madisound cabinets are the same volume but come with rounded corners rather than square. They both come with real wood veneer, driver and input terminal holes and finished grills. You'll have to drill all the holes for the screws. E-mail me for the right type and amount of insulation to install. Success!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers
efespeakers@commspeed.net

Thanks, Ed. But my question was... where are the L-6 speaker cabinets on the SpeakerCity site? I can't find them in their catalog. I was just wondering if there are other internet sites besides them and Madisound that sell a cabinet of the same exact dimensions that I could look at. I can stain and finish a veneered cabinet, or even apply veneer to a MDF box. I was just leery of putting the box together solidly and making the cutouts and port tube the right size, since that is so critical.

What model number are the equivalent Madisound cabinets?

Thank you!
Bryan

kexodusc
02-22-2005, 08:29 AM
Bryan, if you can veneer a raw MDF cabinet, you might as well build a cabinet yourself. Veneering is harder than the cutting and glueing MDF. And you'll save yourself at least $100 between parts and shipping. MDF is cheap. Heck, you could go to a Lowes or Home Depot and get them to cut the cabinets to your specs, then glue them together...the port tube is easy, just countersink a circle cut 1/4 inch or so the width of the port tube thickness and stick the port tube in that ring hole...apply goop or whatever. the port tube length plus thickness of cabinet to the outside should be 6 inches.

You could probably find people to make the cabinets for you.

I'm doubtful you'll ever find a cabinet the same size on another site. Most cabinets are a generic volume (ie: 0.375 cu ft) and aren't customized like these (0.338 cu ft). The closest I think you could find would be these at parts express, but changing dimensions will alter the sound of the speaker.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-712

The Madisound cabinets are probably the way to go...and, Madisound uses better parts for the crossover...(or better yet, buy the pre-made xo's).

EFE Speakers
02-22-2005, 10:14 AM
AR.com Kit Cabinet specs:

3/4" MDF material

Outside dimensions are
13" high x 8 3/4" wide x 9 1/4" deep

Inside dimensions are
11 ½” high x 7 1/4” wide x 7 ¾ deep

Port size is 2" Dia. (ID) x 6" deep from rear surface.
Rear Port hole is centered (widthwise) and 3" from top to center of port.

Speaker input terminal hole is 1 15/16" Dia. It is countersunk 3/16" deep x 3" Dia. This can be changed if you desire another type or size speaker terminal. Rear Speaker terminal hole is centered (widthwise) and 3" from bottom to center of hole.

Front Tweeter hole is 3 5/16" in diameter. Front tweeter hole is also centered widthwise and also 3" from top of cabinet to center of hole. If you opt to countersink the tweeter, cut 1/8" deep x 4 1/8" Dia.

Front woofer hole is 5 5/8" Dia. If you opt to countersink, use 3/16" deep x 6 15/16" Dia.
Front woofer is centered 4 1/4" from bottom of cabinet.
Success to all!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

EFE Speakers
02-22-2005, 10:30 AM
Sorry about that!

AR.com Kit Cabinet specs:

inch MDF material

Outside dimensions are
13 inches high x 8 inches wide x 9 inches deep

Inside dimensions are
11 inches high x 7 inches wide x 7 deep

Port size is 2 inches in diameter (ID) x 6 inches deep from rear surface.
Rear Port hole is centered (widthwise) and 3 inches from top to center of port.

Speaker input terminal hole is 1 15/16 inches in diameter. It is countersunk for the flange 1/8 inch deep x 3 inches in diameter. This can be changed if you desire another type or size speaker terminal. Rear Speaker terminal hole is centered (widthwise) and 3 inches from bottom to center of hole.

Front Tweeter hole is 3 5/16 in diameter. Front tweeter hole is also centered widthwise and also 3 inches from top of cabinet to center of hole. If you opt to countersink the tweeter, cut 1/8 inch deep x 4 1/8 inches in diameter.

Front woofer hole is 5 5/8 inches in diameter. If you opt to countersink, use 3/16 inches deep x 6 15/16 inches in diameter.

Front woofer is centered 4 inches from bottom of cabinet.
Success to all!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

bcass
02-22-2005, 11:29 AM
[...]
I'm doubtful you'll ever find a cabinet the same size on another site. Most cabinets are a generic volume (ie: 0.375 cu ft) and aren't customized like these (0.338 cu ft). The closest I think you could find would be these at parts express, but changing dimensions will alter the sound of the speaker.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-712

The Madisound cabinets are probably the way to go...and, Madisound uses better parts for the crossover...(or better yet, buy the pre-made xo's).

I don't know, but I don't think I could build a cabinet that needs that tight of a tolerance for volume (0.037 cu.ft. makes that big of a difference?). I don't even know if I can measure inside dimentions that accurately to get within 100ths of 0.338 cu.ft., much less 1000ths. Maybe I'll just buy the Madisound ones and save myself the frustration. I would sure hate to spend all that time building a cabinet only to find out that I have to rebuild it because the volume is off by 0.037! :-) Plus, then you have to worry about making your own grills so that they look nice and attach securely.

Soldering parts to a circuit board I can do. But if it's only a few bucks more to buy it pre-assembled, why not? I've done my own car repairs for about 27 years now, but I'm coming to the conclusion that it's more fun to pay someone else to make all my mistakes for me - and then fix them! ;-)

Thanks,
Bryan

kexodusc
02-22-2005, 11:50 AM
Bryan,
I think maybe you're reading a bit too much into the numbers...actually, that's just what you get when you cut the pieces out...I'm sure they're quite flexible, after all, you're going to insert drivers, port tube, damping material, crossovers, terminals, etc that will eat up some of this volume anyway...there's a ton of flexibility.
But buying the Madisound cabinets is a good way to start too...that's exactly what I did when I made a different project...
Then I realized building the cabinets wasn't that hard.
There's a ton of people willing to help if you decide to try your own...Good luck!

bcass
02-24-2005, 06:09 AM
Bryan,
I think maybe you're reading a bit too much into the numbers...actually, that's just what you get when you cut the pieces out...I'm sure they're quite flexible, after all, you're going to insert drivers, port tube, damping material, crossovers, terminals, etc that will eat up some of this volume anyway...there's a ton of flexibility.
But buying the Madisound cabinets is a good way to start too...that's exactly what I did when I made a different project...
Then I realized building the cabinets wasn't that hard.
There's a ton of people willing to help if you decide to try your own...Good luck!

I wrote to SpeakerCity and they wrote back with the price of the L-6 cabinets at $65 each. I'm not sure if that includes the binding post, grill, etc.; they were very terse in their responses. Madisound wants $82.50 each for theirs, but there seems to be more finish options.

I'm almost tempted to just build the cabinets myself, but I'm hesitant only because there's no cutting diagrams or assembly instructions. I see Ed's measurements above, but I have gone solely on measurements before and messed things up. :-) Plus, where do you find the port tube, how do you build the grills, where do you get grill cloth, how do you attach the grills, etc etc. I'm a good direction-follower, but not a good fabricator, and there are too many unanswered questions for me to venture into it yet. ;-) One would think that with so many people who have built these, there would be some detailed bill of materials, cutting diagrams and assembly drawings/instructions out there somewhere.

Thanks!
Bryan

kexodusc
02-24-2005, 06:53 AM
Bryan:

The cutting dimensions are really open to a number of possibilies. Especially if you have dado-blades and can cut a rabbet or mortis-and-tennon joint or something (but those aren't necessary).

I recommend making the front baffle the entire width and height of the speaker, that is 13 X 8-3/4, then adjusting the other dimensions accordingly. It's not that hard, and it doesn't have to be 100% perfect...that's what body fill is for! :D

Just make sure when you are cutting MDF that you set your saw for a certain dimension and cut all the same pieces at once so you aren't readjusting every cut. This helps to ensure that any slight defects are at least consistent for all sides and all speakers. For example, my tops and bottoms, and lefts and rights were the same. I built 12 at once. I cut 24 top/bottom pieces, then 24 left/right pieces, then the fronts, then the backs. I had to use a wee bit of bondo to seal up one crack on all the speakers....it was air tight because of the rabbet joints I used, but this was an important step for later when veneering so lines didn't show.

Port tubes need only be a 2 inch inside diameter PVC or ABS tube such as you'd use for home plumbing, available at any hardware store, but you can order from Madisound/parts express etc...I recommend getting the port covers too to make them look pretty. You just need to chop off the port tube to the right length.

Grills aren't 100% necessary, but I used 3/4" MDF, and a jig saw, kept them very thin and just glued grill cloth on to the back with spray adhesive...probably the hardest part of this whole project. I used earth magnets countersunk into both the front baffle and grill corners for a clean look, but grill pegs can be purchased cheap too, and are probably easier if you're not fussy.

C'mon bryan, MDF is cheap...go to it and build your own from scratch , you'll love these that much more.

FYI...I recommend starting a new thread in this forum for future questions, you might draw more interest. Tons of people here who can help you.