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hershon
07-24-2004, 09:17 AM
I enjoy kicking dead horses. I wish to publically go on record that if a company such as OrbAudio which sells Orb Audio Speakers wishes to make available a specific JVC AV receiver as an option to their customers because this system compliments their speakers it is not home theater in a box. Besides the fact that 2 different components were manufactured by 2 totally different companies, the fact that Orb Audio just makes the receiver as an Option to their customers means that this is not home theater in a Box. The key word here is option. Again, for someone who wants a totally great system new for $1,000 or so Orb Mod 1 Speakers with the JVC AV Receiver are the way to go. OrbAudio.com

kelsci
07-24-2004, 01:40 PM
Hershon; My name is SMARTY JONES. I am a LIVE horse that almost won the Triple Crown at Belmont race track. I'm hungry. I need a carrot..........................

Hershon; I would not call the situation you stated as a HTIB and therefore quite agree with you. A true HTIB IMO would be where the manufacturer has specifically designed a complete system of a receiver( and in some cases now a dvd-receiver)and speakers all together in one box under one brand name and stock number. Kelsci.

AVMASTER
07-24-2004, 02:20 PM
well technically speaking, if a complete system comes in one box----------
but yes i agree since it's available as an option

topspeed
07-24-2004, 04:01 PM
Who f'n cares? Geez, you're in more need of ego stroking than anyone I've met.

You're Orbs are great and no, they are not in the same class as Onkyo, Yammie, Sony, or other HTiB's. There. Do you feel better now?

Considering the utter ruthlessness within music industry that you purport to work for, I'm surprised by your obviously thin skin.

This Guy
07-24-2004, 06:55 PM
Ok?? I don't really see the point in this post. You really care what other people think of your system? If you can buy all the speakers, and the receiever/dvd player at the same place and it comes in the same box, I'm sorry it is infact a HTIB. You're saying how bad a HTIB is when your system really isn't much different. It sounds like you're contradicting yourself. I really don't understand why you're so touchy and unconfident of how your system sounds and whether it's a HTIB or not. I mean there are Home theatre in box systems that have different manufacturers. For example, I believe Denon has a dvd/receiever unit that comes with Mission speakers. Both reputable brands, I still wouldn't buy either because of the reasons I had in the thread where you decided to call me a "jerkoff" or something similar.

hershon
07-24-2004, 08:53 PM
Brother man, heres some info for you, consider this a personal attack by me, no appologies. I don't mind criticism especially if its usefull but you've given me nothing but meaningless drivil in your posts that sound to me like you've lived a dull uneventful life without passionate highs and lows. To me listening to great music is a celebration and you don't seem to appreciate that. Your comments lack gut emotion and feel. Yeah if someone said a speaker system kicks ass it would connect more with me than techno drivel- no appologies. I find it a total contradiction in terms if the only way you'll appreciate great rock music is by listening to it on an expensive sound system- that to me contradicts what rock is all about. I never purported to work in the music industry per se, from 1989 to 1994 when I lived in London working a fulltime job with a US company (I'm American) doing financial related work, I formed a small record label on the side and produced a dozen or so albums by people who were legends in the 60's such as Noel Redding of Jimi Hendrix fame, a cult guitar God named Eddie Phillips of a legendary group called the Creation (their tune Making Time was featured in the movie Rushmore) and a bunch of bigger names I don't want to mention here publically. All the musicans I worked with still had the magic after all these years and respected me enough to want me to produce their recordings including arranging, recording production and doing all the mixing as well as mastering because they admired my "ears" and I never had any disagreements with any of them. I did Okay, didn't make a fortune and it wasn't worth my while to do it fulltime and give up my comfortable regular job, especially when I returned to the US. The record industry today has no interest for me- I hate almost any rock group after 1985 or so and you need loads of money to promote anything and the gamble is too great. Also most record labels will have nothing to do with rock musicans in their late 40's-50's, even if their talent is immense.
In regards to the speakers you say are so great, for all I know they may be, but you do a lousy job in my opinion articulating why they're great. I find you lack total emotion & passion in your comments and sound like a drone. Maybe I'm the only one who feels that way but I don't care.



Who f'n cares? Geez, you're in more need of ego stroking than anyone I've met.

You're Orbs are great and no, they are not in the same class as Onkyo, Yammie, Sony, or other HTiB's. There. Do you feel better now?

Considering the utter ruthlessness within music industry that you purport to work for, I'm surprised by your obviously thin skin.

chimera128
07-24-2004, 09:06 PM
What's the difference between a speaker company designing a receiver and offering one with the speakers that it manufactures. Plenty of companies do this today in an attempt to save money. Look at the auto industry for example. Saab is using the WRX platform for its upcoming 9-2x vehicle. While the majority of the car will be WRX (engine, frame, etc (btw this would represent a receiver)) the rest of the style will come from Saab (suspension tuning, interior design, etc (speakers)). Hershon, you have said nothing in your posts that would make me even want to consider looking at the speakers. Instead of hiding behind your "experience" and sounding like someone trying to defend a decision they made, why don't you post why you like the HTIB you purchased.

hershon
07-24-2004, 09:06 PM
To reiterate again, sorry this is important to me, Orb speakers are sold in a separate box from the JVC receiver. The JVC receiver is optional. No one has to buy the JVC receiver. They can buy the Orb Audio Speakers and decide to buy one of the so called great receivers some of you people espouse here. Therefore this is not Home Theater in a Box. To further clarify, if one doesn't have a choice of what speakers and receiver to get for a system, it is home theater in a box. When one has the choice to chose a receiver of their liking, which could include the receiver recommended and sold by the speaker company(Orb), manufactured by an entirely different company for which Orb has no financial stake in, it is not Home Theater In A Box. My bias against Home Theater in a Box is that you're stuck with the receiver or speakers the unit comes with. If you buy Orb speakers you can buy any receiver you want, so why is that the same thing? What we have here is a failure to communicate. I never used the word "jerkoff" per se by the way.


Ok?? I don't really see the point in this post. You really care what other people think of your system? If you can buy all the speakers, and the receiever/dvd player at the same place and it comes in the same box, I'm sorry it is infact a HTIB. You're saying how bad a HTIB is when your system really isn't much different. It sounds like you're contradicting yourself. I really don't understand why you're so touchy and unconfident of how your system sounds and whether it's a HTIB or not. I mean there are Home theatre in box systems that have different manufacturers. For example, I believe Denon has a dvd/receiever unit that comes with Mission speakers. Both reputable brands, I still wouldn't buy either because of the reasons I had in the thread where you decided to call me a "jerkoff" or something similar.

stuartlittle
07-24-2004, 09:09 PM
I'm a big fan of Orb...anyone who thinks they are HTIB hasn't heard them. And FWIW, my friend ordered the system that they sell w/ the JVC and it most definitely was NOT in the box w/ the speakers. I'm guessing they use a distributor that drop ships the JVCs. So, whether on a performance basis or on a technical basis, I'd say Hershon is right...Orb is no HTIB. In fact, after now having months to listen to the speakers, and having dozens of people tell me how ridiculously good my speakers are, I'd put them up there with alot of the other higher-end speaker manufacturers.

hershon
07-24-2004, 09:20 PM
I have repeatedly said that Orb sells as an option to its customers a JVC receiver which it recommends. Orb does not own JVC or have any financial investment in them or vice versa. Therefore Orb does not manufacture the receiver they will sell to their customers if the customer requests it. There is no requirement that a customer buying Orb speakers buy the JVC receiver they recommend. Customers can buy any receiver they wish. How does any of this constitute Home Theater in A Box? As far as my recommendations on how great Orb is and how great I think the JVC reciever is, especially for the money, all you or anyone had to do is go to an independent forum like this one which you can find on Google that I previously mentioned (On request I'll look it up and provide a link) where I'm estimating 50 different people all raved and recommended Orb as well as going to OrbAudio.Com for more specific information including the technical stuff some of you guys love. The Forum is not an Orb website and has nothing to do with Orb. Based on the posts I read about Orb on that Forum Board, I followed up, went to Orb.Com, liked what I read, called one of the owners of Orb (I think the 2 main guys live in New York City and LA) and went to Gary, one of the honchos house, where he demonstrated the speakers to me playing CD's I brought with me and i was impressed enough to buy the speaker system new direcctly from him. I bought the JVC receiver Orb recommends online as I got it slightly cheaper than what Orb was selling it for. I basically said that I've had significance experience producing name 60's English rock legends and have great ears & therefore based on that, if listening to rock music was important to someone who wasn't fully satisfied with their existing system, I'd follow up on what a person of my caliber is saying. I don't see how that's not helpful to anyone. I also said it produced the best sound I've ever heard. I can't explain what makes the system great from a technical point of view and I won't appologize for that. I don't have any financial arrangement with Orb, I just like their product and their people and if I can promote it to others great, as they're a small company that does not retail in stores. Oh as an aside, Orb speakers were the only speakers used, for the muscians to listen to at Eric Clapton's (who I don't like I must admit) Guitar festival and at the Grammys (which I don't respect, anyway) backstage lounges.

What's the difference between a speaker company designing a receiver and offering one with the speakers that it manufactures. Plenty of companies do this today in an attempt to save money. Look at the auto industry for example. Saab is using the WRX platform for its upcoming 9-2x vehicle. While the majority of the car will be WRX (engine, frame, etc (btw this would represent a receiver)) the rest of the style will come from Saab (suspension tuning, interior design, etc (speakers)). Hershon, you have said nothing in your posts that would make me even want to consider looking at the speakers. Instead of hiding behind your "experience" and sounding like someone trying to defend a decision they made, why don't you post why you like the HTIB you purchased.

chimera128
07-24-2004, 09:27 PM
HTIB = dvd/reciever + speakers. Which is what you own. Don't be ashamed.

hershon
07-24-2004, 09:32 PM
Think about what you just posted. Your missing some marbles, bud.
HTIB = dvd/reciever + speakers. Which is what you own. Don't be ashamed.

chimera128
07-24-2004, 09:44 PM
And you are also full of yourself. You make comments not understanding or even considering other people's experience because you think you're own experience is vastly superior. What I just posted is a simple equation of what I think a Home Theatre in a Box is, which is what I would think most people would consider a HTIB. It has a dvd/receiver .. which you have.. and a sub/sat system.. which you have. And I'm sure for you it sounds great, complete with cheap cables and all. And by the way.. if you used correct English as one of your previous attacks on character implied, you would realize that it is you're.. and not your.

hershon
07-24-2004, 10:17 PM
By your definition, any receiver DVD speaker system is home theater in a box. Did you go to college? I'll admit to typos, bad spelling and sometimes bad grammer as I'm a bit lazy in editing my posts, no disagreement there. Oh most of my cables are monster by the way and I welcome people telling me I should improve on any cables if it will make a notceable difference in sound or picture quality. I don't mind, even welcome criticism as long as it is somewhat in plain English and helpful. Your responses are not helpful or insightful and I find your comments lacking in every which way. People like you are threatened by people like me because I have a feeling of self worth. I've never purported to be any kind of computer or audio system genious or guru, in fact I've asked a bunch of questions on this board of things I didn't know that maybe you and others totally knew and welcome answers to them for which I then did further research on my own. All I'm saying again, and for you to say I'm full of myself, is analogous, and I admit to a lesser degree, to someone like Michael Jordan or Larry Bird making a statement that they are a great basketball player. Would they be full of themselves for making this statement? Based upon my experience in the music industry doing production, which I'm guessing is alot more than 95% of the people making comments on this board, I'd say I have a good idea what constitutes great rock sound from a system and anyone who is into rock music- mainly classic rock, should consider what I say as a beginning point more so than some of you passionless people who drone on and on.
And you are also full of yourself. You make comments not understanding or even considering other people's experience because you think you're own experience is vastly superior. What I just posted is a simple equation of what I think a Home Theatre in a Box is, which is what I would think most people would consider a HTIB. It has a dvd/receiver .. which you have.. and a sub/sat system.. which you have. And I'm sure for you it sounds great, complete with cheap cables and all. And by the way.. if you used correct English as one of your previous attacks on character implied, you would realize that it is you're.. and not your.

chimera128
07-24-2004, 10:29 PM
Yes I have gone to college. No I am not threatened by your self worth or the fact that you feel obligated to share it with everyone else. Great athletes, great musicians, any great person doesn't need to tell other's that they are great. If they do then they are trying to make up for inadequacies in their personalites. As for working in the field, that counts for something. I am mostly a classical listener as I have played french horn and various other instruments for about 20 years. I know what I like to listen to and how it should sound. As for what constitutes great rock, your opinion means as much to me as the trash I throw away each week. I decide what is great rock to me. The consumers decide what is great rock on a whole, not the producers.

hershon
07-24-2004, 10:42 PM
I wouldn't recommend a system to you if your interest is in classical music as I wouldn't feel qualified to do so. In regards to rock music,all I'm saying is that if I was looking for a sound system to play 60/70's rock as well as blues in, then I would take what a person like me says and follow up on that and then make your own decision based on what you hear and/or others have said. Fair enough?
Yes I have gone to college. No I am not threatened by your self worth or the fact that you feel obligated to share it with everyone else. Great athletes, great musicians, any great person doesn't need to tell other's that they are great. If they do then they are trying to make up for inadequacies in their personalites. As for working in the field, that counts for something. I am mostly a classical listener as I have played french horn and various other instruments for about 20 years. I know what I like to listen to and how it should sound. As for what constitutes great rock, your opinion means as much to me as the trash I throw away each week. I decide what is great rock to me. The consumers decide what is great rock on a whole, not the producers.

topspeed
07-24-2004, 11:47 PM
Brother man, heres some info for you, consider this a personal attack by me, no appologies. Apologize for what? Brother, you couldn't hit water if you were standing on the bottom of a lake.
I don't mind criticism especially if its usefull but you've given me nothing but meaningless drivil in your posts that sound to me like you've lived a dull uneventful life without passionate highs and lows.It's called maturity and intelligence. If you'd prefer, I'll be happy to use more "passionate" phrases such as "Talk to the hand" ;lkjaadfaiivb...sorry, that still makes me laugh and it's hard for me to type.
To me listening to great music is a celebration and you don't seem to appreciate that.You're right...listening and playing aren't the same. But then, your extensive knowledge from 5 years or so in the industry obviously eclipses my 30 years as a musician.
I find it a total contradiction in terms if the only way you'll appreciate great rock music is by listening to it on an expensive sound system- that to me contradicts what rock is all about. Really? To me, rock is at it's best LIVE, not recorded. Therefore, I'm always looking for the most realistic live reproduction I can get, whether from a $50 clock radio or a $5000 speaker. To each their own I suppose.
I never purported to work in the music industry per se, from 1989 to 1994 when I lived in London working a fulltime job with a US company (I'm American) doing financial related work, I formed a small record label on the side and produced a dozen or so albums by people who were legends in the 60's such as Noel Redding of Jimi Hendrix fame, a cult guitar God named Eddie Phillips of a legendary group called the Creation (their tune Making Time was featured in the movie Rushmore) and a bunch of bigger names I don't want to mention here publically. Let me borrow from your own text on this one: "I find it a total contradiction in terms." So you didn't work in the music industry but you produced, arranged, mixed and mastered? Well, at least we all know how good you were. I mean after all, you're still at it right now? Right?
I did Okay, didn't make a fortune and it wasn't worth my while to do it fulltime and give up my comfortable regular job, especially when I returned to the US.Oops, sorry. My bad.
I hate almost any rock group after 1985 I know what you mean. Bands like Nirvana, GNR, NIN or Metallica just suck...completely unoriginal and clearly sad copies of the past.
In regards to the speakers you say are so great, for all I know they may be, but you do a lousy job in my opinion articulating why they're great. I find you lack total emotion & passion in your comments and sound like a drone. Maybe I'm the only one who feels that way but I don't care.Thanks, that's the point. Unfortunately, I'm not blessed with your golden ears and obvious ability to choose what is right for every person on the face of the earth, thus I merely give the poster some options and (:eek: gasp!) let the buyer decide what's best for them. It's easy for guys like you because you're omnipotent. Clearly, you already know their room acoustics, nodes, taste, preferences, hearing ability, emotional state of mind at every listening session, and probably what color underwear they are wearing. For mere mortals, it's better to not try to impose our will on others, even though we know we can't ever possibly be wrong :rolleyes:.

I know you're a little hot under the collar because I said Orbs sucked...oh wait, lemme check...oh that's right, I didn't. But clearly if 50 people on some bb said they were great, they must be! I mean that has to be waaay more supporters than companies like B&W, Dynaudio, DefTech, Vandersteen, JM Lab, or Paradigm could ever dream of recieving praise from.

Look, I'm glad you're happy with your rig, I really am. I am also absolutely sure that you believe it to be the best buy under $1K for you. You might simply want to consider that there are others here, whether more experienced or not, that may have some insight into the post and yours is not the only opinion.

hershon
07-25-2004, 02:18 AM
First off I think all the bands that you mention do suck (GNR, Metalicca, Nirvana), but I'll admit here that's personal taste and I won't tell you who you should or shouldn't like. Personally I like groups where the lead singer can sing, groups that actually write songs with melody, groups where the musicans have considerably talented chops. In my personal opinion, the 3 above groups that you mentioned lack this but they're very popular with millions, though not the baby boomers I know. For myself, almost any rock group after 1985, lacked this for my taste. You want to hear good music listen to groups like the Zombies, Yardbirds, early Fleetwood Mac, a group called The Sorrows who you probably never heard of (that isn't meant as a put down), Rory Gallagher, Wishbone Ash, Booker T and the MGS, the Groundhogs, Free, Brian Auger, Cream, etc. Those people could play. In regards to music, while I can't play a note, I'm sorry I have accomplished much more than you've done professionally based on the little info of what you've posted. Its like someone who plays whiffle ball for 25 years telling somebody who played major league baseball for 5 years, that they've accomplished more. You could be the most talented professional musican around but I've been with the big boys or people who were the big boys and based solely on what you've posted, you have not. In regards for me not wanting to try to pursue record producing fulltime, well its a suckers game and you need to know when too cut your losses short. My friend Matthew Fisher of Procol Harum who I produced on several albums, the guy who played Hammond on A Whiter Shade of Pale, last I heard was pursuing a career as a computer programmer and doing the occassional part time gig with Procol or a session. Matthew at one point produced Robin Trower, had some major success as a producer, owned his own studio, and then suddenly couldn't get arrested and moved onto other things. Someone who doesn't is a fool. Practically every one of the musicans I worked for who had massive chart success in the 60's wished they had my job iinstead of their career. The grass is always greener on the other side. Before I came to England, I thought all these guys lived the greatest lives around. Again, I produced comeback albums for people who were names in the 60's, did OK but not enough to warrant doing this fulltime, got a few pages & had a picture of me with a bunch of the people I produced in a large hardcover book written by someone in England that was published here as well and did this on the side of my fulltime job and thus did not consider myself a real member of the record industry as my life did not revolve around these people or the business, other than contacts with some distributers, some independent labels & the musicians themselves & the studios. If there is a way I can articulate this better for you I'll be happy too. As far as how good I was, I was good enough that very talented name musicians who had considerable success wanted me to produce them and respected my talents and a bunch of the albums I produced got very good acclaim. No I didn't sell millions, one of the problems with the record industry is you need promotion money which I didn't have just to play the game. To be honest, if I knew all the BS that goes on outside of the recording process, this has nothing to do with the musicians, I never would have gotten involved. Again, in regards to me thinking I'm omnipotent and everyone should do as I say, I never said or implied that. I took offense to people who criticized me for advocating Orb Speakers and JVC A/V Receiver who hadn't actually heard music played on those systems. As far as I'm concerned don't criticize a system unless you've actually heard something played on it. If you have and don't like it, yeah feel free to say it isn't good or whatever. But I don't feel anyone is qualified for criticizing a system if they haven't heard it based upon their assements of the technical parts. I never put down any of the systems you or anyone else has advocated on this forum because I haven't heard anything on them.
I frankly find it ridiculous for people if they listen primarily to rock to go to great lengths and spend considerable capital listening to basic primal rock music on expensive systems. IE, to have to spend several thousand dollars or more to be able to enjoy Motorhead (who I like) because you can't dig the nuances on a cheaper system I find bizarre. I agree with you that a bunch of factors such as room accoustics play a part in how one hears there system. I can only advocate that for a great basic sound for $1,000 try Orb and JVC and as a reference point attest to my producing a certain type of music with name musicians and thus giving some background that my ears are accute in regards to rock music (before 1985) that people who are into that type of music as a result might find my comments helpful and make their own decisions from there. I certainly would find that more helpful than someone dryly advocating some system based on technical mumbo jumbo. I'd even find it more helpful if someone said a system is hot and kicks ass than if someone said this sytem as 1000 amps, a subtweer with a frequency range whatever, etc. If someone can do better great. In regards to I'm estimating 50 plus different people praising the same system on an internet Forum and no one criticizing that system, yeah I'd give it considerable weight. i certainly haven't seen any product praised like that here In the short time I've been on this board, especially from a small company.

Bryan
07-26-2004, 08:29 AM
I'd even find it more helpful if someone said a system is hot and kicks ass than if someone said this sytem as 1000 amps, a subtweer with a frequency range whatever, etc.

That is part of the problem. What is good for me may or may not be good for you. The first part tells me nothing about the system. It is based upon an opinion and could even represent the infamous white van/Dogg Digital speakers. The speakers and system could be junk. Specifications can be an indication of a products perfomance. That is why you want to know what they are. A cabinet that weighs 15 lbs but is 40"H x 12"D x 10"W will be far more resonant than one that weighs 50 lbs and has the same dimensions. The KLH 9912s I had 'kicked ass' yet were not close to the same league as the nOrh 3.0s I had.

What would be a better system:

HSU Ventriloquist/VTF-2 combo for $660, Yamaha HTR-5730 (Best Buy) for $199.99, and a Toshiba SD-3960 dvd player for $69.99

or

Orb/JVC combo?

Both go after the same market. One costs $1,099 while the other system goes for $930, of which the difference could go into a better receiver and/or dvd player. The one system also includes one of the better subs on the market and you will likely not replace it. Another possible system is:

Fluance SX-HTB - $260
Adire Audio Rava - $450
Yamaha HTR-5730 - $199.99
Toshiba SD-3960 - $69.99

For a total of $979.98. All we are doing is offering possibilities to the buyer. The above Fluance speaker set is marketed as HTB (home theater in box) yet doesn't include a receiver nor subwoofer. So how then do you define a HTiB system? If an item is marketed as an all-in-one package (excluding dvd player) I would say it is a HTiB system, regardless of if everything is labled Denon, Onkyo, or a combination of JVC and JBL. The quality will vary but the classification will not.

hershon
07-26-2004, 11:41 AM
I think, not that I'm saying anything new to anyone, the best thing to do is hear some systems for yourself, playing the CD's/DVD's you want to hear/see, and maybe listen to these systems based on what various people say on the board, albeit it will be pretty hard to hear how a certain receiver sounds like with a certain speaker. I'd also go to Amazon.com where alot of products are listed for sale with a bunch of reviews by customers. My only problem with that is that it seems like for every 5 good reviews, there is one terrible review, and its hard to decide which to give weight too. What I feel sorry for with OrbAudio who's speakers I've fanatically endorsed is they sell direct from their offices in LA & NY and don't retail in stores and thus if you don't live in those areas you can't hear what they sound like, albeit if you do order by mail I think Orb has a 30 day no questions asked, return policy.
That is part of the problem. What is good for me may or may not be good for you. The first part tells me nothing about the system. It is based upon an opinion and could even represent the infamous white van/Dogg Digital speakers. The speakers and system could be junk. Specifications can be an indication of a products perfomance. That is why you want to know what they are. A cabinet that weighs 15 lbs but is 40"H x 12"D x 10"W will be far more resonant than one that weighs 50 lbs and has the same dimensions. The KLH 9912s I had 'kicked ass' yet were not close to the same league as the nOrh 3.0s I had.

What would be a better system:

HSU Ventriloquist/VTF-2 combo for $660, Yamaha HTR-5730 (Best Buy) for $199.99, and a Toshiba SD-3960 dvd player for $69.99

or

Orb/JVC combo?

Both go after the same market. One costs $1,099 while the other system goes for $930, of which the difference could go into a better receiver and/or dvd player. The one system also includes one of the better subs on the market and you will likely not replace it. Another possible system is:

Fluance SX-HTB - $260
Adire Audio Rava - $450
Yamaha HTR-5730 - $199.99
Toshiba SD-3960 - $69.99

For a total of $979.98. All we are doing is offering possibilities to the buyer. The above Fluance speaker set is marketed as HTB (home theater in box) yet doesn't include a receiver nor subwoofer. So how then do you define a HTiB system? If an item is marketed as an all-in-one package (excluding dvd player) I would say it is a HTiB system, regardless of if everything is labled Denon, Onkyo, or a combination of JVC and JBL. The quality will vary but the classification will not.

Woochifer
07-26-2004, 12:21 PM
I enjoy kicking dead horses. I wish to publically go on record that if a company such as OrbAudio which sells Orb Audio Speakers wishes to make available a specific JVC AV receiver as an option to their customers because this system compliments their speakers it is not home theater in a box. Besides the fact that 2 different components were manufactured by 2 totally different companies, the fact that Orb Audio just makes the receiver as an Option to their customers means that this is not home theater in a Box. The key word here is option. Again, for someone who wants a totally great system new for $1,000 or so Orb Mod 1 Speakers with the JVC AV Receiver are the way to go. OrbAudio.com

First off, that JVC "AV receiver" is an integrated receiver that incorporates both a DVD player and a receiver under a single housing. To me, that's one of the benchmarks of a HTIB system -- a single unit that incorporates all of the source playback, controller, and amplifier functions. The other benchmark is an all-in-one speaker package that includes all five satellite units plus an optional subwoofer. Integrated receiver plus all-in-one speaker package = HTIB. Pretty simple connection.

Orb sells the integrated receiver and speaker package as a group, and includes special directions on how to use the JVC with the Orbs. To me, that kind of integrated packaging is exactly what defines a HTIB and where the concept's appeal stems from. The concept has its place in the market, and since you like yours, I don't see why you get so defensive about the term.

Orb is selling that JVC/Orb package to consumers who are looking at the Bose Lifestyle series. What do you think those references to "$2,500 to $3,500" systems on Orb's website refer to? Are they comparing their JVC/Orb package to a Yamaha receiver/Denon DVD player/B&W 600 series/Paradigm subwoofer system, or to the Bose Lifestyle? And what does that JVC/Orb package more closely approximate? The midlevel component market, or the Bose HTIB market? Orb's website states all these criticisms of HTIBs, when the benefits that they are describe with that JVC/Orb package are EXACTLY what describe an HTIB.

Consumers who don't mind lacking the option to match a different source unit with the amplification unit, or not being able to choose from matching together different speakers, are the ones who look for the HTIB option. They want to audition and buy the whole thing at the same time. What concept do you think Orb is marketing? It certainly isn't one that appeals to those consumers who piece together separate components.

Denon does not make the speakers that come with their HTIB systems, so does that mean that their integrated systems should no longer wear the HTIB label? And who knows what other manufacturers outsource either speakers or the receiver/DVD unit.

As others have pointed out, enjoy what you got, but don't start prescribing that as a one-size-fits-all solution for everybody. The skepticism that you'll get from a HTIB recommendation originates precisely because most of us HAVE actually listened to and tried out these types of systems, and know their shortcomings all too well. For people who are willing to live with those weaknesses, the HTIB option is a great value. But, for people who don't want to build a system with those weaknesses in place, then the all-in-one speaker package with integrated source unit won't work.

topspeed
07-26-2004, 12:31 PM
"You know what happens when you make too many assumptions? You make an ass out of you and umption."

Please show me where I said I was a professional musician. You need to talk to Worster about that. Have I played in bands? You bet. Everything from prog. rock to jazz. Only for fun and the love of music though :).

It's too bad you don't like some of the newer bands and how they are advancing rock. Being an obvious purist, you should appreciate that at it's core, rock is always about challenging the norm and will therefore never stay the same. As far as the talent in today's bands, that's a pure judgement call. While I agree wholeheartedly that most of what you hear today is utter crap (good lord, do we really need another Blink 182 rip-off a la New Found Glory?). I for one think Amy Lee of Evanescence can flat sing her ass off. But as I said, to each their own.


Again, in regards to me thinking I'm omnipotent and everyone should do as I say, I never said or implied that.
No, you didn't say you were omnipotent. You only stated that
the sound I like, everyone else likes...As far as me thinking that if I say something is good, everybody who hears it will think the same, no appologies there But that still doesn't mean your "A1" hearing is better than everyone else. Unless of course you think a poster should
Forget what these numbsculls say...you{other posters} and your cohorts are retards

Look, my point is (and always has been) to simply not discount other people's opinions. We all hear differently. This is not techno mumbo-jumbo, this is a fact.