Speaker Choice - Dynaudio?

[kdogg]

I need some recommendations for an upcoming purchase. My brother works for an audio dealer and gave me his old Rotel RB1080 and a RC1070 pre-amp, so now I want to get some descent speakers to match.

He recommended B&W, but I heard Dynaudio Audience 72 and 82 and liked them a little more overall than the B&W he had.

I have heard good things about Thiel CS1.6 or 2.4, Totem Sttaf and Hawk, Vienna Bach, Jamo D450 or E855.

Any thoughts on these compared to the Dynaudio Audience 72? I am trying to step into hifi on a budget, but I definately want the best speaker I can get. Are these speakers a good range to look at, or are they all just ok.

Please add you opinion based on the current equipment I have.

Thanks

[kdogg]

Forgot to mention:

Room is 18' x 25'

I listen to Orchestra, Jazz, Classic Rock, Movie Scores... Almost eveything!

Wire choice is probably going to be Kimber Kable 4VS or 4TC, and their entry level interconnects.

Maybe a Richard Grays 400mkII !

Thanks again.

[Geoffcin]

Forgot to mention:

Room is 18' x 25'

I listen to Orchestra, Jazz, Classic Rock, Movie Scores... Almost eveything!

Wire choice is probably going to be Kimber Kable 4VS or 4TC, and their entry level interconnects.

Maybe a Richard Grays 400mkII !

Thanks again.


And a decent budget so my advice is;

Listen to a whole bunch of speakers before you decide. My guess is that the Theil 1.6's would be a little small for your room. 3.6's would be my preference in a room your size. I've heard the Dynaudio Contours and like them. B&W and Dynaudio both make quality speakers, although they voice them differently.

If your on a tight budget I would very much reccomend a used set of speakers. I've purchased used on Audiogon.com, and still have an old set of Magnepan III's I bought that way.

[NickWH]

B&W is supposed to synergize well with Rotel gear, but that doesn't mean it will sound the best to you in your room. The range of speakers you are looking at are definitely inline with the gear you will be using them with, if not a little higher. One thing is for sure: that Rotel amp has enough juice to power any speaker you want. I would drop Thiel and Jamo off the list. On the Rotel website there is a HiFi Choice review in PDF format of the latest Rotel Integrated and CDP hooked up to Monitor Audio Silver S8 speakers. They spoke very highly of them mated to that system, so you may want to check out Monitor Audio as well.

[Buzz Roll]

Although I do like Dynaudio, I recently auditioned a pair of Totem Hawks and liked them a lot. I haven't tried Thiel yet, but their design makes a lot of sense to me.

I've tried both Kimbers and I liked the TC much better, the VS being a little too dark (on my system). If you don't mind trying another company, I moved over to Analysis Plus Oval 1 interconnects and Oval 12 speaker cables with a nice improvement.

[RGA]

Which B&W? Personally not a fan of the Thiels I heard mnany years ago - people claim they're accurate and better than anything - I dunno.

The Dynaudio 82 is probably the best floorstander for sane money that I have heard - though you should see if you can hear my speakers someplace. But if you want floorstanders the Danes would be my pick - but I have not heard everything so keep an ear out for lesser known gear...if it's lesser known there may be a reason your dealer carries them - quite often I have been way more impressed with the no namer than the marketing machine stuff.

[Buzz Roll]

Right on, RGA. I poke around audioholics.com and I'm amazed at how impressed they are over there with the mass market stuff.

[kdogg]

Thanks for all of your help, everybody has been helpful.

Although I haven't seen anyone mention Totem Acoustic, I would like to know if anyone has had some listening experience with them.

Also, has anyone used a Richard Gray's 400mkII ? I just want to know if it would benifit the level of system that I will be getting.

[RGA]

I prefer a speaker with a meat on the bones presentation - one with large dynamic scale a smooth but extended treble and a vocal band that is very present and articulate not overshadowed by everything else - within the constraints of the recording of course. I least like thin almost funnel sounding speakers with a lack of driver integration(where you hear an upper midrange suckout so your ears draw themselves to the tweeter as a distinct entity from everything else). Few 3 way designs ever sound right to me because they have another hick-up over longer listening - but they usually offer other advantages that if done well can sound good. - The Dane 82 for example.

Totem to me is overpriced and has these integration problems - very well finished and sound better than a lot of others but I always get the sense they're missingf a large chunk of the music. They also sound as though they lack cohesion as well. None of the one's I have heard seem to have much impact and require really small rooms (with regards to their standmounts and slim floorstanders)

But it's my taste - some will gravitate to the upper midrange lack precisely because it makes the highs sound more extended - for me over a longer term listening it doesn't do it for me and sounds like it's an appeal to the H/T crowd.

Really things are all relative. What is a GREAT sounding speaker between 4 brands you hear may blow the other 3 away - put the winner up against 4 other brands and it might be dead last. That is why it's important for YOU to listen to as many as possible against the others in the same room with the same gear set-up properly. And then there will be your taste which is ultimately all that really matters. You may find 10 reputable names - all have good reviews - all will be built well and last 15-40 years, all have fancy design approaches - etc etc. Chances are that you're not personally going to like all ten of them - you may only like 3 despite the fact that the other 7 get raves left right and center.

It's your own reference point that is going to matter - that is why it's important to listen to a wide range of speaker designs - the glut on the market right now is fashinable slim line designs with multiple smallish drivers, metal tweeters, demanding huge power so most are comparing a very similar design from brand to brand.

So really as boring as the saying goes - listen for yourself and decide and try and put the reviews and the advertising aside.

[lumiere]

Even though I seem to agree with RGA's opinions about speakers, I have to disagree this time. Personally, I think Totem speakers offer some of the most bang for the buck of all the speakers I have listened to. Definetely, not overpriced (less than 1,000 usd for the standmounted Rainmaker, 1,100 for the Arro). Both are, to me, way better than lots of speakers in that range. Anyway, the only sure way for you to decide is audition, audition, audition.
Have fun.

[S. Jensen]

Hello Kdogg,

I you haven't seen it yet then check out this thread:

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=3898&page=1&pp=25

Here people have been very helpful to me with thoughts on buying a set of speakers. I ended up choosing between Dynaudio Audience 72 and 82. They are both excellent speakers.

The dealer I used (in Denmark) has Dynaudio in his private home and he uses Rotel to drive them. Right now I have a Harman Kardon AVR 520 surround receiver and it does the trick with Dynaudio, but more power is certainly welcome. I am going to have a Rotel RB-1070 power amp at home for en extended weekend to see what it can do for my Dynaudios. Perhaps I will then upgrade to the RMB-1075 so that I can get an "even soundstage" (can you say that?) in surround mode. My dealer said it would deliver plenty of power so you should be all set with the even more powerful RB-1080.

Any way: Good luck with the choice! I my opinion you cannot go wrong with Dynaudio and such a powerful amplifier.

Best regards

S. Jensen

[psonic]

I agree Rotel does mate up well with Dynaudio. I'm running the RB-981 quite happily with the 60's. I had NAD before but prefer the Rotel, don't think you can do much better for under $1k new. One thing to note though, the Rotel Dynaudio combo will shine with a good preamp and show you when one is not as good, but only if you know what the better one sounds like! Try a few...

[Hyfi]

I have the 82s and never looked back. They beat all the B&Ws in similar price range. They do like a bit of power but at 4ohms your amp will beef up it's output. I am driving mine with an Odysey Stratos and a Sound Valves tubed pre. What a nice combo. My room is of similar size to yours. If you need to save some cash, the 72s are a good compromise. I recently hooked up a friend with a set of 72s and a B&K amp/pre setup. There were major differences in the control over the Rotel gear. The Danes are sometimes too good as they let you hear the disk. When it's recorded badly, you will know it.

I have heard many Thiels and they all seem to lack bass until you get to the megabuck model and expensive amps to drive them.

Happy Hunting

[psonic]

"There were major differences in the control over the Rotel gear."

What do you mean? B&K is good, though I've not heard it on Danes.

[bappy]

Hello Kdogg,

I you haven't seen it yet then check out this thread:

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=3898&page=1&pp=25

Here people have been very helpful to me with thoughts on buying a set of speakers. I ended up choosing between Dynaudio Audience 72 and 82. They are both excellent speakers.

The dealer I used (in Denmark) has Dynaudio in his private home and he uses Rotel to drive them. Right now I have a Harman Kardon AVR 520 surround receiver and it does the trick with Dynaudio, but more power is certainly welcome. I am going to have a Rotel RB-1070 power amp at home for en extended weekend to see what it can do for my Dynaudios. Perhaps I will then upgrade to the RMB-1075 so that I can get an "even soundstage" (can you say that?) in surround mode. My dealer said it would deliver plenty of power so you should be all set with the even more powerful RB-1080.

Any way: Good luck with the choice! I my opinion you cannot go wrong with Dynaudio and such a powerful amplifier.

Best regards

S. Jensen

Qoute: Bappy

I have read all the commets about dynaaudio and rotel amp. but I have little bit confused about the situation, which is rotel support 8 ohms but dynaaudio speakers are 4 ohms, can anybody tell me how come it would be a good match. It will also help me a lot as because I am useing nad with dyna with a rotel cd player, may be I will upgarde to rotel amp. but please tell me the 4 and 8 ohm factors.

Best Regards,
M.Kabir, Bapy.

[Pat D]

Qoute: Bappy

I have read all the commets about dynaaudio and rotel amp. but I have little bit confused about the situation, which is rotel support 8 ohms but dynaaudio speakers are 4 ohms, can anybody tell me how come it would be a good match. It will also help me a lot as because I am useing nad with dyna with a rotel cd player, may be I will upgarde to rotel amp. but please tell me the 4 and 8 ohm factors.

Best Regards,
M.Kabir, Bapy.
A Rotel power amp will handle 4 ohm loads with ease. Here is a link to the measurements of the RB-1080 done by John Atkinson in Stereophile magazine. Is 558 watts into 4 ohms good enough for you?:) The somewhat smaller RB-1070 would also have high current capability, but I haven't found a review of it.

http://www.stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/608/index4.html

On the other hand, I'm sure your NAD amp will drive 4 ohm speakers very well, too. Is it not working satisfactorily?

[Mr Peabody]

I'm familiar with B&W and own several pair of Dynaudio. In my opinion Dynaudio is a far superior speaker in every aspect to B&W. I thought their top of the Nautilus paled in comparison to my Dyn Contour 2.1t and the B&W cost twice as much. In a 3 way shoot out we listened to a Thiel, I'm not sure the model but they retailed at $2,200., a pair of Acoustic Energy towers ($699.) and a pair of Dynaudio A52's. The AE's were out classed by both. The 52's had far superior bass response to the other two. I preferred the 52's out of the 3. The Thiels were a sweet sounding speaker, layed back and musical. I like the Thiel sound better than B&W. I prefer Dynaudio because the frequency response sounded wider, more dynamic and quick and very obviously better bass, more of it and it was still accurate and clean.

[zebra]

I'm familiar with B&W and own several pair of Dynaudio. In my opinion Dynaudio is a far superior speaker in every aspect to B&W. I thought their top of the Nautilus paled in comparison to my Dyn Contour 2.1t and the B&W cost twice as much. In a 3 way shoot out we listened to a Thiel, I'm not sure the model but they retailed at $2,200., a pair of Acoustic Energy towers ($699.) and a pair of Dynaudio A52's. The AE's were out classed by both. The 52's had far superior bass response to the other two. I preferred the 52's out of the 3. The Thiels were a sweet sounding speaker, layed back and musical. I like the Thiel sound better than B&W. I prefer Dynaudio because the frequency response sounded wider, more dynamic and quick and very obviously better bass, more of it and it was still accurate and clean.

i'm looking for decent stand or bookshelf speakers myself and your post is making me lean towards the Dynaudio Audience 52s. However the system will be mainly in my bedroom so i was thinking of getting the A42. Other possibilities for me are JMLab Chorus 706 although great mid and highs they are thin on bass so i would probably have to couple this to a sub if i go this direction. I liked the Usher X-719 for its deep bass but somehow detail gets lost in a heavy music program. I read a good review on the B&W 602 S3 on this website. So i'm thinking of auditioning that too.

But in the meantime... i am really hooked on getting either the 42 or the 52 unless there are other good suggestions out there. By the way, I will be driving these speakers with a Yamaha AX-596 stereo integrated amp (100w rms) mated to a DIY Tono brand tube pre-amp. In other words, a hybrid.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[zebra]

Actually surfing a bit more i came upon a B&W603 vs. JMLab707 thread! Looks like the JMLab is not getting much positive feedback. I have auditioned both the Chorus 706 and 707 and i do like their clarity and analytical sound. Nothing like the JMLab Micro Utopia though. For the buck it looks like the Dyn Audience - with it's better dynamic characteristics - is a better choice over the french speakers. I'll give the brit speakers a try soon and then i'll decide.

[RGA]

I really like the A 42 and 52 - both require fairly robust amplification which IMO receivers don't posess. Then again I'm picky.

For a cheaper easier to drive solution check out the Audio Note AX Two - it is also Danish (coincidence?) anyway it is very easy to drive even by the 8 watt SET amp - and IMO that allows you more of an upgrade path away from SS. Even if you don;t higher sensitivity often tends be able to get dynamics easier.

I posted reviews of the 42, AX Two and 602S3 - all were very good IMO for the money - but the AX Two is worth the trouble to find because IMO it was the best of the lot and the least expensive and most sensitive. http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=6696

[johnnyturbo]

RGA and crew_- I am running an old NAD 2200 PE (100x2) and 1155 pre ( vintage 1987). I My room is 12x15 with 8.5 foot ceilings; 2 doorways . Do I have enough power frot he 52se's? I am only a 2 channel guy. What about the s1.4 which i heard and liked, but a quantum leap in $$$. Also thinking about adding a sub with the 52se. Another thought would be the Vons VR1, again poss. with sub. Finally, the GMA Europas and Callisto's have received solid, though limited forum talk. I would much appreciate any thoughts you guys might have.
Thanks again.

[NickWH]

All I can tell you is that you can do a lot better by your speakers by upgrading your electronics. Looking at different/more expensive speakers would be a waste of money. Your current speakers still have a lot more potential. You shouldn't need a sub with the 52SE in that size room.

[johnnyturbo]

All I can tell you is that you can do a lot better by your speakers by upgrading your electronics. Looking at different/more expensive speakers would be a waste of money. Your current speakers still have a lot more potential. You shouldn't need a sub with the 52SE in that size room.

NickWH- thanks for advice. At this point , I am without speakers; so an electronics upgrade will have to wait until next year. Given what I have and the options I laid-out, you point to the 52 se. I believe you are on the spot re room size; and I can add a sub if necessary. Any thoughts on the other speakers I mentioned.

[NickWH]

Johnny, you really should start a new thread to get more responses...you kinda hijacked this one.

The way I read your post, I thought you owned the 52SE already. I think you should listen to all the speakers that interest you (if possible), but keep in mind the cost of making the system synergistic. So make sure you budget for the associated equipment (like with this speaker I would use a tube amp, with this speaker I would use a 250wpc amp, etc.). Most people suggest buying the speakers you like first, and then building a system around that. I would be mindful of a preamp/amp or integrated amp upgrade in the near future with the speakers you seem to are interested in.

I really can't comment on the other speakers, except that I've heard the same good things.

[RGA]

The problem you'll have is that some of those speakers like GMA are very hard to find - and you should listen preferably in the same room with the same gear against other speakers which I try and do whenever possible. That rules out room problems since the speakers are in the same boat - my delaer has 4 rooms all wildly different so it's nice to try in each - I have found that the one that stands out by a mile against the others did so in every room.

I have heard some good things about GMA and they appear to have very very good build construction - nevertheless I'd want to HEAR it first. I can recommend any speaker under the sun just like anyone - but in the end it has to bolw YOU over and not everyone likes the exact same thing.

[bappy]

A Rotel power amp will handle 4 ohm loads with ease. Here is a link to the measurements of the RB-1080 done by John Atkinson in Stereophile magazine. Is 558 watts into 4 ohms good enough for you?:) The somewhat smaller RB-1070 would also have high current capability, but I haven't found a review of it.

http://www.stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/608/index4.html

On the other hand, I'm sure your NAD amp will drive 4 ohm speakers very well, too. Is it not working satisfactorily?

Quote: Bappy

Yes I am getting pretty decent sound from nad 272, but when I wrote nad about how much power I am getting in 4ohms speaker they told me that I am getting 150 watt, so is it better to use more power with dynaudio, in otherhand do you think rotel would better then nad.

[johnnyturbo]

i thank RGA and NickWH for 'sound' advice and offer my apology to all for the inappropriate and unknowingly hijack of this thread. Lesson learned.
Johnny