Auditioned B&W 703's today.....

[newbsterv2]

.....and I was really not impressed. They did seem to image very well and were not at all grainy but the midrange seemed a bit too projected for my tastes. Maybe the midrange was "flatter" than I like I just am really not sure. Also the bass seemed really lightweight. Not that I like flabby and boomy bass but I like the bass to have some weight. I'll be heading back to hear the Paradigm Studio series again. It was funny listening to the salesman though. I swear these people think that everyone who walks into their place of business is a rockhead. He went on and on and on about how "radically" different source components, especially amplifiers, can have a "profound" effect on the sound. Another interesting thing was that this dealer carried the 703 and 705 but not the 704. He had the nerve to ask me "do you REALLY think you'll hear a difference between the 704 and 703?" What kind of dumb question was that? It's a speaker for God's sake if you change the driver arrangement, enclosure volume, etc. of course it'll sound different! It was obvious to me he was just trying to unload the 703's. Anyways if there's anyone who likes the 703's this particular dealer in Orland Park, IL is getting rid of the floor models for $2,000/pair if anyone's interested.

[RGA]

Personaly I'd save your money and pass by both these brands. Both are similar in design - and you can't get an accurate read on them unless you listen side by side with the same gear same room. $2000.00US is a lot of money for a revamped CDM line - hell that is what my speakers go for and I'd take em over the the N801 in a heartbeat.

[Pat D]

Personaly I'd save your money and pass by both these brands. Both are similar in design - and you can't get an accurate read on them unless you listen side by side with the same gear same room. $2000.00US is a lot of money for a revamped CDM line - hell that is what my speakers go for and I'd take em over the the N801 in a heartbeat. I can't say about the N801, but I would take the B & W 705 over the N802 in a heartbeat--not to mention numerous other speakers, including the Paradigm Studio 100, v. 2, which I was able to A-B with the N802. So what? Preferring something over the Nautilus line is no particular guarantee of super quality.

[RGA]

Well I heard a nice little $900.00Cdn Polk I would take over the Studio 100 in a heartbeat - and I have heard the N801 versus the Studio 100V2 - N801 is miles better - The 100 V2 is a quaint little speaker - dull, lifeless and musically totally unsatisfying to me.

And the N802 is better than the N801 in many a area - many people actually prefer the N802 - I'm mixed - either to me are vastly superior to any Paradigm or PSB or Energy with the exception of the Energy V2.4 that I can recall. I say I prefered a speaker to the N801 - which also means I prefer it to the others that the N801 beat - which is most speakers under 10KUS I have heard over the last 15 years. Sadly the Matrix line was even better - but speaker companies today need to sell fashion over sound.

[Wireworm5]

RGA I take offence to that! (The 100 V2 is a quaint little speaker - dull, lifeless and musically totally unsatisfying to me.) I respect your knowledge and experience but I have to question your hearing. I haven't heard the speakers you talk about but I find it very hard to give you credibility when you say this about the 100's.
When I fire up my Paradigms 9 & 7 and B&W 601 with my Yamaha its sounds good. Then I add the 100's powered with my Bryston. Let me tell you this speaker dominates the others and is obviously a cut above.
If your ever in the Saskatoon area, please let me know, I'll tune you in.:)

[Pat D]

RGA I take offence to that! (The 100 V2 is a quaint little speaker - dull, lifeless and musically totally unsatisfying to me.) I respect your knowledge and experience but I have to question your hearing. I haven't heard the speakers you talk about but I find it very hard to give you credibility when you say this about the 100's.
When I fire up my Paradigms 9 & 7 and B&W 601 with my Yamaha its sounds good. Then I add the 100's powered with my Bryston. Let me tell you this speaker dominates the others and is obviously a cut above.
If your ever in the Saskatoon area, please let me know, I'll tune you in.:)
Well, I think the Studio 100, v. 2, is probably better than the v. 3. I haven't A-B'd them, as the v. 2 is no longer carried where I live. But I did notice some colorations with the v. 3 I don't remember having noticed with the v. 2--but I'm depending on really long term memory. The v. 2 has a more even frequency response where it counts most IMHO, though the measuring systems are not the same at Stereophile (for the v. 2) and Soundstage (for the v. 3), which uses the NRC facilities.

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/252/index6.html

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_studio100_v3/

The v. 3 measurements are still quite good, though, don't get me wrong.

Rest assured, the Paradigm Studio 100, v. 2, is a really fine speaker. I wonder whether RGA heard it set up properly. ;)

[Pat D]

Well I heard a nice little $900.00Cdn Polk I would take over the Studio 100 in a heartbeat - and I have heard the N801 versus the Studio 100V2 - N801 is miles better - The 100 V2 is a quaint little speaker - dull, lifeless and musically totally unsatisfying to me.

And the N802 is better than the N801 in many a area - many people actually prefer the N802 - I'm mixed - either to me are vastly superior to any Paradigm or PSB or Energy with the exception of the Energy V2.4 that I can recall. I say I prefered a speaker to the N801 - which also means I prefer it to the others that the N801 beat - which is most speakers under 10KUS I have heard over the last 15 years. Sadly the Matrix line was even better - but speaker companies today need to sell fashion over sound. So the N802 beats the N801? Well, I did A-B the N802 and the Studio 100, v.2, and it was no contest for me. The Studio 100 wiped the floor with the N802. So you prefer something else? So what?

I have heard the B & W 801 Matrix Series II fairly recently and it wouldn't do for me. Even its owner, who was selling it, told me that it needed to be played loudly to get the kind of detail he wanted and it no longer gave him what he wanted. He now has the Totem Mani-2 Signature which does give him what he wants and at lower levels--I heard his speakers and they are indeed very nice.

But as you often do, you miss the point. Your preferences are no guarantee of quality and no guarantee that someone else won't like something else better.

[N. Abstentia]

RGA I take offence to that! (The 100 V2 is a quaint little speaker - dull, lifeless and musically totally unsatisfying to me.) I respect your knowledge and experience but I have to question your hearing. I haven't heard the speakers you talk about but I find it very hard to give you credibility when you say this about the 100's.
When I fire up my Paradigms 9 & 7 and B&W 601 with my Yamaha its sounds good. Then I add the 100's powered with my Bryston. Let me tell you this speaker dominates the others and is obviously a cut above.
If your ever in the Saskatoon area, please let me know, I'll tune you in.:)

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I'm wondering if RGA might be getting Paradigm mixed up with something else. 'Quaint, little, dull, and lifeless are the LAST words I would use to describe Paradigm Studio's. In fact to me, the Studio 40 was right there with the B&W 801 which is why I finally ended up taking the Paradigms home. That was 4 years ago, and I still haven't found anything that sounds as good for anywhere near the price. I didn't even think the Wilson Cub's sounded anywhere near $9000 better!

[RGA]

I have heard both the 100 and V2 - and very briefly the V3 - but the V3 was in a home theater set-up with rather expensive Anthem set-up - and wasn't impressed - but they had the sub cranked (impressive sub in the make you deaf and sick department - someone puts a glass on a table and the room shakes - I suppose some think this is real good sound - no doubt why stores set-it up like that.

Wireworm Please don't take those comments as being negative. I have good things to say about the 100V2 comparing them to the better but overpriced CDM 9NT.
The V2 I've heard now in three different places. My comments on the 100V2 were in relation to huigh end speakers - for $2000.00Cdn or $1400.00US I gave the speakers a very good 8/10 and would recommend them to most people especially for rock or as a front to a home theater set-up. When I auditioned the CDM 9NT was double the money and not double as good - the 9 had more life in the treble region better bass definition but I put it down as a worse value than the 100V2.

The B&W N801 the first time I heard it was not impressed. It sounded overly polite and slow. Certainly not a good low volume producer - neither was the N802. However I heard the N801 speakers and the Studio 100V2 at Soundhounds and The N801 they had powered by Musical Fidelities NuVista tube amp line - this was an 11 watt tube integrated which yes is underpowered but at low volume the N801 dissapeared - an impressive feat for a speaker that large and a completely different sound than I had heard previously. The speaker was a good 8 feet from side walls and 6 feet into the room - perhaps one of the 1200 watt VTL tube amps might be a good match as well - and there won't be concerns over power. The N802 I have less listening time on, but one dealer suggested they are best 6 feet apart which made me think they may be best suited for nearfield listening - the exact opposite of the N801.

I would not really want the N802 or the N801 simply because they're overly picky about placement and room size.

The 100V2 was good enough for me to by my current amp - which was the speaker I was using alternating through a couple of amps to see which would be best. This said the speaker sounds unrefined and etchy their is a laid back quality in the upper mids - lack of driver integration(cohesion) and in the end it sounds lifeless when you compare it to better speakers = the N802 and N801 also has a driver integration problem and lack of cohesion but it's less noticeable - basically a BBC dip - and perhaps why I liked the tubes is that some tubes have added strength in that very same BBC dip area - as does my Sugden likely because it faired the best with 100 despite half the watts of the MF A300.

I try not to judge any speaker off of one audition or in one store or with one set of ancillary gear - unlike some - Amplifiers and source, my mood, the recordings brought that day, the room, etc have an impact on the perception of sound. Even when I bought both my recent speakers I listened with tubes, SS, LP, CD and in three different room sizes in treated and less treated and open untreated environments - and at home in two different rooms. These are professionally set-up - even places like the big box chain Audio Video Unlimited who is the main seller of Paradigm in BC are well set-up - in normal living room environments for home theater. (Depends on the outlet some are not so well set-up). The 100V2 simply doesn't stand out to me any better than any other reasonably good $2000.00Cdn floorstanding speakers from the likes of Energy(The C9 is actually $500.00 less here an I think it's a better speaker or at least no worse), the Polk LSi line, PSB Stratus Silver, and I would not mind hearing the Bronze again, B&W 604S3, Totem has a floorstander at $1900.00Cdn (Staff?) that I would like to check on again. But a lot of these sound similar to the 100 - a bit narrow and conjested with a treble that keeps all of these from greatness IMO.

The 100V2 IMO is good for $2000.00Cdn(~1450-1500.00US) and should be on an audition list. In fact it is so good that my dealer who brought in the S8 basically said the S8 if it is better is so marginally better that it was not worth their time carrying them just for basically the same thing in a nicer cabinet. They had them in for 2 weeks and they 1) were outclassed by their other high end speakers that for the ~9k they sell for basiclaly for a nicely finished 100V2 - 2) couldn't sell any as a result of being a good mid fi speaker like the 100 but selling at the level where ML, AN are selling at and being badly embarrassed. And I also think they agree with Patd about the V3 series - as to their negative comments about moving away from the V2. This is the biggest high end dealer here and have been looking at Dynaudio among others so they may be very unhappy with the V3 series or they may be replacing either Totem(they only sold 6 the entire year - and have apparently lost their outsourced Dynaudio drivers) or possibly dropping the MLs.

BTW I also like the Studio 40 for its price. - The Studio 80 was garbage IMO and I see Paradigm realized that and dropped it from the V3 line-up. I said the 80 was no good 3 years ago - so this isn't an after the fact comment of hindsight. The 20 was better than my previous harsh words about it - I'm not a fan of thin and punchy sound...if you are it's probably for you.

[Wireworm5]

Since I lack your experience in speaker auditions I won't debate with you. Only that your assessment of the Paradigm 100 v2 is not accurate. First off, you should add at least $2000 more to the price tag. Being that they're a hard to drive speaker your going to have to buy a power amp to get them to sound their best.
Although they sound good at low volume they really only begin to open up at spl levels higher than 90 db.This is when they exhibit their characteristics best. Tonally accurate, articulate slam bass, very neutral sound. In other words whatever is coming from the source is what you are going to hear, nothing more nothing less. With an excellent recording you would be picking your jaw off the floor.
What I would expect from a better speaker than these would be more detail. Anything else would be subjective.

[RGA]

Actually and a very simple test is if a speaker DOES not perform well at low volume then you have a problem - playing speakers at defeningly loud levels is much harder to discern whether they're any good. All you can tell is that they play loud.

The 100V2 is not a hard speaker to drive - like most lesser quality speakers and systems people feel the need to turn the volume up and up and up to get them to sound good. You may not agree with me, or realize it, but you proved my point. Things work in stages - when I first heard speakers as a consumer was ~1992 they were Cerwin Vega D9 biggest model and impressive bass. I though they were terrific - then I went to what was available my Wharfedale Vangaurds versus a lot of popular brands M&K, Klipsch, Polk, Infinity. I realized that the Wharfedales while a good roocker and powerful were being eclipsed by some speakers in some areas. I went out listened to the Energys, Paradigms, Polks, Klipsh and B&W's - all of them for the same money of $2kCdn did not beat the musicality of the Wharfedales none of them beat them for max SPL and few had the bass response, and all sounded thin - but a lot of them imaged better and presented a better soundstage. From 1996 on I browsed tempted a number of times to buy.

I didn't upgrade because what was on offer wasn't even better than what I had - and what was better started at $4k. I say better to mean overall - I heard plenty of loudspeakers better in certain areas - but if you're going to shell money out it should beat em in every area - or at least 90% of the key areas.

Also why would I add $2000.00 more to the price tag - Paradigm knows roughly where they're going to be successful and their competion. The reviews of course may say beat speakers at much higher prices - but hey they say that about Axiom, PSB, B&W, Energy --- notice the trend - even I say that about my speakers --- We all choose a speaker and think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread and way better than the next feller's double the price speaker. I have heard plenty of $2000.00 speakers and plenty of $4000.00 speakers. Paradigm is priced too high but name recognition allows them and B&W to hike the prices up - meanwhile the Energy C9 - a better(or close) speaker IMO is several hunded less --- less common name though.

None of this is an insult to Paradigm's 100V2 - people will have a different view than I do. B&W N805 and M805 were my two favorite standmounts for a long while - the more you listen to the more I came to realize that my opinions shifted - N805 to second then to 3rd and 3rd place is to the point where I could never go back to an N805 or CDM 1NT. They didn't get worse - I just heard more speakers and better, to me, speakers.

And the B&W CDMSE series got me into high end because they blew what I heard previously away(Cerwin Vega, Bose, Sony etc). Then I heard something else the Martin Logan Oddysey, B&W 800 series among several others that blew the Paradigms etc of the world away. Similar to the CDM SE versus the Bose and CV stuff this ML etc made the Paradigms etc sound like Bose by comparison - and then AN came along - which made the B&W 800 seies basically sound out of their league. And certainly it could happen that OI could run into a Spendor or something that woud make me upgrade the AN's. But you have to stop somewhere - the point your budget and your minimum satisfaction level are met.

And remember this is just my taste - some people like the Rolling Stones and I don't - they're not wrong for liking them but neither am I for not.

[topspeed]

First off, you should add at least $2000 more to the price tag. Being that they're a hard to drive speaker your going to have to buy a power amp to get them to sound their best. Huh? At 91dB's sensitivity and an impedence curve that appears to dip no lower than 3 ohms, how hard could they be? I 'spose it depends on your definition of "hard to drive." They are certainly nothing like ML's or Quad ESL's which will maul lesser amps with their regular drive-by's into the 1 ohm neighborhood.

Although they sound good at low volume they really only begin to open up at spl levels higher than 90 db.This is when they exhibit their characteristics best. Tonally accurate, articulate slam bass, very neutral sound. In other words whatever is coming from the source is what you are going to hear, nothing more nothing less. With an excellent recording you would be picking your jaw off the floor.You probably didn't mean to, but RGA's right, you actually aided his argument. An exceptional speaker sounds great at all listening levels, not just blow-the-roof-off loud. Obviously, you need a good speaker to play loud without distortion as well, but that should not be it's defining characteristic. If it is, it's simply not that great.


What I would expect from a better speaker than these would be more detail. Anything else would be subjective.LOL! It's all subjective in audio, Worm. By stating a better speaker would have more detail, you immediately imply that the Studio's lack definition. Even then, your idea of "detail" could be another's "bright" or "aggressive." Again, everything in audio is subjective my friend.

[Wireworm5]

I'll be more specific.
My receiver could drive the 100's and they sounded good, but only after powering them with my Bryston did I hear these speakers full potential. So if you purchase this speaker also plan on buying a power amp, otherwise why buy them for second rate sound.
Second at lower volume levels I didn't say they sound bad, they pretty much blend in with the rest of my Paradigms. Its when the volume goes up that they distinguish themselves as superior.If you don't crank it, these speakers aren't for you.
Third,the 100's don't lack definiton, for a speaker to be better they'd have to have even more detail which I highly doubt I would find in the lower priced speakers RGA mentions.( I've only heard this level of detail in expensive headphones).

[Pat D]

I'll be more specific.
My receiver could drive the 100's and they sounded good, but only after powering them with my Bryston did I hear these speakers full potential. So if you purchase this speaker also plan on buying a power amp, otherwise why buy them for second rate sound.
Second at lower volume levels I didn't say they sound bad, they pretty much blend in with the rest of my Paradigms. Its when the volume goes up that they distinguish themselves as superior.If you don't crank it, these speakers aren't for you.
Third,the 100's don't lack definiton, for a speaker to be better they'd have to have even more detail which I highly doubt I would find in the lower priced speakers RGA mentions.( I've only heard this level of detail in expensive headphones).
I certainly have to question Topspeed's criterion. Actually, speakers that sound good at very low levels probably have a frequency response that takes account of the Fletcher-Munson curves or Equal Loudness Contours:

http://www2.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Equal_Loudness_Contours.html

In other words, it is a departure from natural sound.

In any case, I agree that the Paradigm Studio 100, v. 2 sounds fine at lower levels. I listened quite a while to them on the same occasion I auditioned the B & W N802, which definitely had mid-range problems, although the high end is quite smooth. The Paradigms sounded way better to me in every respect, whether natural sound, imaging, and detail, and I listened to quite a few selections, including male and female vocals, chorus, piano, and full orchestra.

[Pat D]

Huh? At 91dB's sensitivity and an impedence curve that appears to dip no lower than 3 ohms, how hard could they be? I 'spose it depends on your definition of "hard to drive." They are certainly nothing like ML's or Quad ESL's which will maul lesser amps with their regular drive-by's into the 1 ohm neighborhood.
You probably didn't mean to, but RGA's right, you actually aided his argument. An exceptional speaker sounds great at all listening levels, not just blow-the-roof-off loud. Obviously, you need a good speaker to play loud without distortion as well, but that should not be it's defining characteristic. If it is, it's simply not that great.

LOL! It's all subjective in audio, Worm. By stating a better speaker would have more detail, you immediately imply that the Studio's lack definition. Even then, your idea of "detail" could be another's "bright" or "aggressive." Again, everything in audio is subjective my friend.
I didn't find the Studio 100, v. 2, to be deficient at lower levels.

I don't know where you get your information about the impedance of the Quad speakers. The Quad ESL-63 does get down to around 3 ohms in the bass at lower levels but the impedance actually increases at higher levels. It is not a particularly difficult speaker to drive with a good amplifier. The original ESL's impedance only drops below 2 ohms in the extreme highs, though it is a highly reactive speaker which some amps don't like.

The sensitivity of the Paradigm Studio 100, v. 2, was estimated by John Atkinson in the Stereophile review as about 89.5 dB. The 91 dB figure is a reverberant field measurement, so it is higher than an anechoic one. The impedance gets down to 3 ohms in the mid-bass, where there is a lot of musical energy.

The old loudness contour controls raised up the mid-bass and bass to make the sound at lower levels more pleasant, but at least this is controllable. A speaker that does the same thing imposes this at any level and all the time. The Equal Loudness Contours (or Fletcher-Munson curves) show that the ear is less sensitive to bass frequencies at low levels than it is at high levels:

http://www2.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Equal_Loudness_Contours.html

You may desire such a characteristic in the speakers, but it is a departure from accuracy.