Reconsidering...

[ronning]

Well, I'm starting to reconsider my recent purchase of the Toshiba SD-6915 DVD player. (For those that don't know, it's a SACD/DVD-A/MP3/WMA/DVD universal 5-disc changer).

It's got all the features I wanted in a player, but the interface is clunky at best, irritating at times (especially for audio cd's, sacd's, etc). It does a good job with video, but nothing amazing. The $159 price is hard to beat, though (I got it discounted, normally $179).

Here's what I'm reconsidering: I currently have no CD transport nor a DVD player and would like a good 5-disc cd/sacd/(dvd-a?) player and a dvd player and was thinking that a universal player would be great. I'm wondering if lumping it all together is a cause for disaster and that I might be better off with separate components (which I'm not against as long as it stays in budget).

So... given the above info, I'm looking for a dvd-player and a cd/sacd disc-changer combo that would meet my needs and stay near my budget for their combined prices (i'm willing to buy used off ebay if necessary).

THanks!

-Olen

p.s. I used to have the Sony SCD-CE775 until it was stolen. I was quite satisfied with it.

[ronning]

I forgot to mention my budget:

$150 or less for a good single-disc dvd (prog, wma/mp3, dvd-a ) player.

$200 or less for the 5-disc cd/sacd changer (used models ok)

[N. Abstentia]

In that price range, I don't think you're going to do much better than what you already have. You already have a DVD player that's as good as any in the $150 range, whether it be single disc or 5 disc.

You also already have an SACD player that's as good as any other $200 SACD player, except that it also plays DVD-A and holds 4 more discs. Right now there are no other 5 disc DVD/DVD-A/SACD/MP3/WMA players on the market.

But I know what you mean, I was waiting around for the Toshiba to come out then when ahead and got a Marantz DV-6400 when I finally actually saw the Toshiba. But in your price range, I don't know how you're going to do any better.

If you want to upgrade, you probably need to start looking at Denon and Marantz models in the $600 range, which of course are just single disc players.

[AVMASTER]

take a look at the new samsung dvdhd841
DVDA SACD WMA MP3 JPEG CDR/RW DVI output
$199.

multi-disc version later this year---MSRP $349.

[ronning]

multi-disc version later this year---MSRP $349.

this sounds promising...

I wish I could do an audio/video comparison between the Samsung and the Toshiba. I might ask the guys at Best Buy if I can do just that.

BTW, what is "later this year" ??

THanks

[ronning]

multi-disc version later this year---MSRP $349.

where'd you get this info?? I can't find anything about it anywhere...

Thanks,

ronning

[AVMASTER]

where'd you get this info?? I can't find anything about it anywhere...

Thanks,

ronning
dealer training thru one of our distributors for Samsung, release date late Dec. but this is not firm.
Also multi-disc universal player from Onkyo, should hit market alot earlier but pricing will be high
Several units from Denon with DVI-D and HDMI output coming in 2005 starting at $269.

[Monstrous Mike]

I have a Panasonic DVD-F87S Progressive Scan 5-Disc DVD Player here: http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dept=11&WLBS=fsweb9&sku_id=0665000FS10041571&catid=&newdeptid=11

I've had it about a month now and everything is hunky-dory. The only thing really missing is SACD.

[ronning]

The Samsung sounds very promising - I like their technology and design, but I'm not sure I can go without having a DVD player for 4+ months...

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Olen

[Woochifer]

dealer training thru one of our distributors for Samsung, release date late Dec. but this is not firm.
Also multi-disc universal player from Onkyo, should hit market alot earlier but pricing will be high
Several units from Denon with DVI-D and HDMI output coming in 2005 starting at $269.

I think this is the info on the Denons. Looks like a very interesting lineup, and the DVI and HDMI outputs was really the main thing missing from their current midlevel models.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/denon-pre-cedia-press-conference-7-2004.html

[ronning]

The Denons are nice, of course, but do not offer SACD (a prerequisite). I'd rather have SACD over DVD-A (*if* I had to choose).

The Samsung uses Philips new SAA7893HL SACD processing chip which has separate DACS for DVD and SACD (PCM vs. DSD, presumably). I'm not sure how the samsung has DVD-A capabilities, must be through a 2nd chip. (anybody know?) Also, I thought, as stated by someone else as well, that DVD-A required 24/192 DACs, but according the samsung's specs it only has 24/96 dacs..???

I'm curious if anybody knows which chipset my Toshiba SD6915 has. So far I have not been super impressed by its SACD playback (not to mention the loads of other problems this player has).

Thanks,

ronning

[sy_lu]

I just got Goodguy's mailer that has the Samsung DH841 for $199 with $50 cash back.

[ronning]

I just got Goodguy's mailer that has the Samsung DH841 for $199 with $50 cash back.

cool... wait.. where? I don't see it...

[sy_lu]

Its on page 26 of Goodguy's Summer 2004 mailer. I suppose they only mail it to their store area or past customers. It is also on their web site but the web site only has $20 rebate instead of the $50 rebate for in store purchase. BTW, Samsung's web site has the manual for download. You might want to check out the interface first to see if it is any better than your Toshiba.

[ronning]

Its on page 26 of Goodguy's Summer 2004 mailer. I suppose they only mail it to their store area or past customers. It is also on their web site but the web site only has $20 rebate instead of the $50 rebate for in store purchase. BTW, Samsung's web site has the manual for download. You might want to check out the interface first to see if it is any better than your Toshiba.

Today I was in Best Buy and was looking at the Pioneer DV-578A player ($142), which looks nice, and the Samsung DVD-HD841 ($189). They didn't have any set up but said they'd find remotes and set them up tomorrow when I return with a DVD and a SACD to test with... so I'll check user interfaces then.

I'll also stop by Good Guys and grab a flier from the store or just ask a guy directly about it.

[ronning]

hmmm... an interesting new contender..

Philips DVD795SA
http://www.consumer.philips.com/global/b2c/ce/catalog/product.jhtml;jsessionid=ARYWI2BIOEHAXJ0RMRERZONHK FSEKHG4?divId=0&groupId=VIDEO_GR&catId=DVD_CA&subCatId=DVD_PLAYERS_SU&productId=DVD795CH_17

[oryan_dunn]

Hey ronning I was considering this player as well. I have a few questions on it that I've started a new thread on this player http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=5750. If you do end up getting this player, could you fill me in on some of those questions?

Thanks,
Ryan

[sy_lu]

Today I was in Best Buy and was looking at the Pioneer DV-578A player ($142),

Well, you want to be sure the Pioneer 578A is not just another one like their 563A. I brought and returned the 563A becasue its SACD and CD's performance are not even close to the Sony player I have(I was looking to add DVD-A). Some has said it converts SACD bit stream to PCM first to cut cost on DAC. Any way, you want to make sure the 578A is not just another 563A.

[ronning]

Well, you want to be sure the Pioneer 578A is not just another one like their 563A. I brought and returned the 563A becasue its SACD and CD's performance are not even close to the Sony player I have(I was looking to add DVD-A). Some has said it converts SACD bit stream to PCM first to cut cost on DAC. Any way, you want to make sure the 578A is not just another 563A.

Yes, I'm curious about this as well. i have a very sneaky suspicion that my current Toshiba does this as well (SACD sounds incredibly harsh on this player making even regular CD sound better - my old Sony CE775 was *way* better).

The Samsung, however, states specifically that it uses Philips own chip which I (hopefull) presume has a separate DSD DAC (see my above post).

[sy_lu]

My reading of the Phillips' chip set is it can go either way. The chip set allows the DVD player maker to choose to use what type of DAC. It can be DSD, PCM or hybrid for both DSD and PCM. If the DVD player maker is looking to cut cost, they will use a PCM DAC only. Using a hybrid DAC will be the logical solution for better performance at reasonable add-on cost. Using both DSD and PCM will add quite a bit of cost not only for the cost of two set of DACs but also with added signal path cost. I doubt you will find a low cost player using two set of DACs. I will be happy if they use a hybrid DAC. The worst is using the PCM only. I would rather they use a DSD only DAC for SACD analog output and send PCM output to digital out only.

[ronning]

My reading of the Phillips' chip set is it can go either way. The chip set allows the DVD player maker to choose to use what type of DAC. It can be DSD, PCM or hybrid for both DSD and PCM. If the DVD player maker is looking to cut cost, they will use a PCM DAC only. Using a hybrid DAC will be the logical solution for better performance at reasonable add-on cost. Using both DSD and PCM will add quite a bit of cost not only for the cost of two set of DACs but also with added signal path cost. I doubt you will find a low cost player using two set of DACs. I will be happy if they use a hybrid DAC. The worst is using the PCM only. I would rather they use a DSD only DAC for SACD analog output and send PCM output to digital out only.

Good - thanks for the info.

Here's another player i found... something more to chew on...

Yamaha DVDS1500 DVD Player Universal single disc
I found it online for around $350

[ronning]

yet another model to consider...

Yamaha DVD-C940
dvd-a, sacd, dvd, etc, etc, 5-disc changer.
a-very-a-nice-a. about $350 online. Pricey, but very nice.

Any opinions?

(p.s. I plan to purchase a new Yamaha receiver in the next 2 months)

[N. Abstentia]

yet another model to consider...

Yamaha DVD-C940
dvd-a, sacd, dvd, etc, etc, 5-disc changer.
a-very-a-nice-a. about $350 online. Pricey, but very nice.

Any opinions?

(p.s. I plan to purchase a new Yamaha receiver in the next 2 months)

That one does NOT support DVD-Audio.

[oryan_dunn]

My reading of the Phillips' chip set is it can go either way.

Are you talking specifically about the 795, or just a chip that philips makes? I'm curious if the 795 has a true DSD chip in it. The philips site makes it sound like it does.

Ryan

[sy_lu]

Are you talking specifically about the 795, or just a chip that philips makes?
Ryan

Yes, I was talking about the SSA7817HL decoder chip Philips makes. The decoder chip does not have built-in DAC and there are a few options for DVD player makers to choose which types of DAC to use. The quality of the DAC will make most of difference in terms of SACD or even PCM playback.

[ronning]

That one does NOT support DVD-Audio.

I discovered this as well... thanks.

BTW - I went to a GoodGuys and tried out some players. After some searching around I found this player sitting on display but not with their regular stuff for sale. It looked nice but I didn't really get to test it all that much (other than to see that the 5-disc tray opens for access to 4 discs *simultaneously*!). The salesman came over and pooh-poohed the player saying it was essentially a Philips made player and therefore "had all the same problems" and he had customers complain about it.

I'd like to find some actual reviews on it online, however. And what about the reputation of the philips players??

[ronning]

Is it just me, or does this whole quest seem absurdly difficult? Why can't they just make a decent single or multidisc sacd/dvd player for a decent price? I used to own a simple (and cheap!) Sony (scd-ce775) SACD 5-disc changer which had *beautiful* sound and craftsmanship. Now it and my dvd player are gone (stolen), and I'm faced with a market of DVD/SACD inseperably combined... if not literally than financially.

Alright.. so I'm going to start from scratch here. I'm calling out to everyone:

with money as no object, please just list any and all sacd players currently on the market.

(SACD/DVD/DVD-A universals being preferred but not exclusive).

Thanks!

[ronning]

with money as no object, please just list any and all sacd players currently on the market.

(SACD/DVD/DVD-A universals being preferred but not exclusive).

Thanks!

I'll start:

Samsung DVD-HD841 Universal single disc
Pioneer DV-578A Universal single disc
Toshiba SD-6915 Universal 5-disc
Marantz DV-6400 Universal single disc
Yamaha DVD-C940 DVD/SACD 5-disc
Yamaha DVDS1500 Universal single disc

..others..???

[oryan_dunn]

I'll start:

Samsung DVD-HD841 Universal single disc
Pioneer DV-578A Universal single disc
Toshiba SD-6915 Universal 5-disc
Marantz DV-6400 Universal single disc
Yamaha DVD-C940 DVD/SACD 5-disc
Yamaha DVDS1500 Universal single disc

..others..???

Sony DVPNC685V 5 Disk DVD/SACD
Philips DVD795SA 5 Disk DVD/SACD
Philips DVD763SA Single DVD/SACD
Philips DVD963SA Single DVD/SACD
Pioneer DV-563A Single DVD/DVD-A/SACD

......

[ronning]

the Philips DVD795SA 5 Disk DVD/SACD is available *new* online for only $130?? It has damn good reviews, too, as far as I can tell... Kinda sketchy, though

[oryan_dunn]

the Philips DVD795SA 5 Disk DVD/SACD is available *new* online for only $130?? It has damn good reviews, too, as far as I can tell... Kinda sketchy, though

ronning, where have you seen these reviews? I'm interested in this player as well. I can't believe how little information there is on this player on the net. Also, why did you say kinda sketchy?

Ryan

[ronning]

ronning, where have you seen these reviews? I'm interested in this player as well. I can't believe how little information there is on this player on the net. Also, why did you say kinda sketchy?

Ryan

http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_285758_2759crx.aspx

plus a few others scattered around from a google search.

I haven't read anything bad about this player, but I can only assume it shares many similarities with the 963 which has about a 80/20 rating (80% saying it's the best player ever for the price, and 20% saying it's a complete piece of crap and never works). Obviously Philips has their design and technology together, but are somewhat lacking on production quality control. A rotten shame...

Personally, I'm really excited about the CD upsampling... RBCD reviews for this player are the best I've seen for anything less than $1000. Could be a really good CD/SACD player with normal DVD to boot.

[oryan_dunn]

How are you able to tell if a player can decode the 20 or 24 bit cds? I have a few in my collection and don't know what kind of player would be able to play them.

[ronning]

How are you able to tell if a player can decode the 20 or 24 bit cds? I have a few in my collection and don't know what kind of player would be able to play them.

20 or 24bit CD's? I presume you are referring to HDCD's. These are "higher bitrate" CD's and will require a HDCD decoder (not found on this player).

However, if they are simply CD's mastered at 20 or 24 bit, then they are still regular 16 bit discs, just dithered for production.

[oryan_dunn]

However, if they are simply CD's mastered at 20 or 24 bit, then they are still regular 16 bit discs, just dithered for production.

Ok, those cds are a bit misleading then. I have a few that say 20bit cd and I think I remember a friend having a 24 bit cd. I know I also have a few HDCDs, but have never heard them in an HDCD player. How do they sound compared to SACD?


Here are a few more SACD players from Crutchfields latest catalog:
Denon 2200, 2900, and 5900
Sony ES DVPNC555ES
Sony DVPCX985V
Sony ES DVPCX777ES

A few others listed on http://interprod5.imgusa.com/son-637/home.asp
Dedicated SACD players
Sony SCD-1
Sony SCD-XA777ES
Sony SCD-C555ES
Sony SCD-C222ES
DVD/SACD players
Sony DVPNS999ES
Sony AVDC70ES
AVDS50ES
DVPNS755V

Check out this link http://www.superaudio-cd.com/players/
also check this http://www.superaudiocd.philips.com

Any other players?

[ronning]

Ok, those cds are a bit misleading then. I have a few that say 20bit cd and I think I remember a friend having a 24 bit cd. I know I also have a few HDCDs, but have never heard them in an HDCD player. How do they sound compared to SACD?




Not that I'm an expert, but i've never heard of a 24-bit CD. The only thing i can think of that would come close would be a DTS CD (24-bit compressed), in which case all you need is a dvd player and DTS capable receiver. I believe that HDCD uses certain algorithms to pack 20 bits on a CD. I've owned a few HDCD's but never heard them on a HDCD player (other than good speakers hooked up to a PC running WMP9 which has HDCD decoding... but the soundblaster card would be the major bottleneck in that case).

I can't say from experience, but it seems that SACD would blow HDCD out of the water.

[ronning]

Reconsidering.. and finally a decision. :-)

So, I think I've finally decided on getting the Philips DVD-795SA player. It's 5-disc, SACD/DVD, and has great reviews for sound quality plus it has all of the standard audio features I want available directly from the remote without having to wade through a cumbersome on-screen GUI. It's *exactly* the same machine as the Yamaha DVD-C940 (minus the faroudja dcdi, but it adds CD upsampling) and it costs about 1/3 as much.


Anyone else have any last comments/reviews/warnings before I make this purchase??

Thanks!

p.s. I think I'll do some further testing on the Yammie version at my local goodguys before making the final purchase decision

[Woochifer]

Ok, those cds are a bit misleading then. I have a few that say 20bit cd and I think I remember a friend having a 24 bit cd. I know I also have a few HDCDs, but have never heard them in an HDCD player. How do they sound compared to SACD?

It simply means that the CD was remastered using 20-bit or 24-bit equipment. The end product still needs to be transferred to 44.1/16 resolution for playback in the CD format. Can't really judge how the CD will turn out by the bits alone, since a lot of other variables are in play during the mixing and mastering process.